tomacht8
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Posts posted by tomacht8
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3 hours ago, pierrenoel said:
13000 baths for a russian doll,what a joke
That's probably her 3day-3night all you can eat buffet flat rate.😄
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I wish that this triumvirate of Immigration, Tourist, and Local Police would make also this kind of effort, to slap on the fingers of the local taxi drivers who constantly rip off tourists with inflated prices and generally refuse to turn on their taxi meter.
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As a Bangkok taxi user for decades, I can only say that the taxi service has gotten significantly worse recently. An estimated 75% of taxi drivers don't want to use a meter and offer their fantasy prices through their rolled down passenger side windows. As a recognizable tourist/foreigner you have to be patient and hail many taxis until you find one who is willing to use his meter. Apparently these rip-off taxi drivers do not have to fear any sanctions from the authorities.
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4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:Yeh - the Thai RD have basically 'shut up the shop' and are not talking to anyone. Most frustrating.
It's sad when you go to your local tax office and don't get clear answers. If I want to buy a condo for 10 million in July 2024 and transfer the money from abroad? Do I have to pay up to 30% taxes on the 10 million in 2025 (tax return for 2024)?
The answer: I don't know, maybe.
What documents do I have to show that my 10 million has already been taxed in my home country? Especially if the 10 million have already been saved in your home country over years?
The answer: I don't know.
Against the background of such unclear statements, no sensible businessman will invest.
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A friend now has the following idea:
His daughter is studying in Europe and will definitely be in Thailand less than 180 days per year. The daughter has two passports (Thai/Europe), her primary residence for her studies is in Europe. His daughter has her own online bank accounts in Europe and Thailand. My friend deposits his money in Europe into his daughter's European account. The daughter then transfers the money from her European account to her Thai account. After his daughter transfers then the money from her Thai account to the father's Thai account. My friend's idea sounds logical or is he missing something?
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8 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:It will never happen. The housing market here is dependent on foreign buyers, it would crash overnight if everyone knew they had to pay tax on the funds used to purchase the property.
Exactly. Actually unthinkable, but without binding and clearly defined procedures and furthermore taking into account the current legal situation and current statements from the Thai tax authority, I will not make any large money transfers to Thailand from January 1st, 2024.
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How should the taxation process work then? Someone who lives in Thailand for more than 180 days a year buys a condo for 10 million baht in 2024 and transfers the money from his foreign account to his Thai bank account. Will the tax authorities come in 2025 and want around 30% taxes? Difficult to imagine.
What kind of paperwork will be triggered then? What documents are then necessary to prove that, for example, the money has already been taxed in the home country or where it comes from; from inheritance, property sales, savings, dividends, etc. It's a horror idea to have to fight something like this out in detail with a local tax official who doesn't even know the exact procedural process. As long as the process with all its evidence and certifications is not crystal clear, I will definitely not be transferring any large sums of money to Thailand for the time being.
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Oh yeah. I loved my job. Was a lecturer in a model and fashion university. But in the end my wife forced me into early retirement.
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5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:
They will take the money first and expect the foreigners to prove it is not taxable.
The same thing has been done for years with capital gains. Savings interest and dividends are reduced as a percentage by the applicable tax rate and withheld at source (by the banks). When the tax year is over, you can then use your personal allowances to try to get some of the withheld capital gains taxes back. This process has been used for years in my stock portfolios and savings accounts both in Thailand and in Europe.
However, I 100% doubt that this procedure can generally be used in Thailand for simple (all) money transfers from abroad. What will happen, however, is that all taxable residents (stays over 180 days a year) will receive mail from the tax office and you will then have to declare your “taxable income”. After that, it will probably only be possible to carry out random checks, as this sort of thing is quite time-consuming and personnel-intensive for the tax authorities.
There are usually 3 checking/recording systems running in the tax offices:
1. Bank data evaluation. Banks must report customer data to the tax office. What is interesting for the tax office are quite large transfer amounts from abroad from private individuals to private individuals.
2. The tax return itself. Where questions arise about plausibility (From what did the taxpayer actually live on)?
3. Third party notices from jealous neighbors
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43 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:I don't agree that you have the right slant on what's happening. I do not believe it is that the government wants to extract additional money from foreigners, it's more that the government wants to stop tax evasion by Thai nationals using overseas accounts and that by default, foreigners have to be included in that process. Foreigners are not the target, their residual or collateral damage.
I do not believe that the majority of regular retirees will be affected, only those with above average income will. It's also worth pointing out that the effective tax rates in Thailand are substantially below what they are in most Western countries, an income of 70k Baht per month is likely to incur an annual tax of around 10,000 baht, based on the calculations various poster have made and had authenticated by their local RD office.
I can't speak to what paperwork may be required, or whether it will need to be translated etc etc, in the event of more complex and higher value transactions. I do know however that Thailand's property sector relies heavily on foreign buyers who are unlikely to be willing to see their purchase price funds taxed or the property sector see a massive downturn in sales.
I can only hope that you are right. And I would prefer it if it wasn't you, but the head of the Thai National Tax Authority who explained this. Furthermore, it would be desirable if the tax exemption test procedure for countries with which there is a double taxation agreement were clearly defined. And that in the end, the tax officer Somchai in the local tax office also knows this procedure and implements it without errors and sticky fingers. My auditor in my home country is currently working on my tax return for 2022. I will receive the tax assessment for 2022 at the beginning of 2024. How will this technically synchronized in Thailand? No idea and questions upon questions. But as long as that's not 100% clear to me, I am suspicious due to my experience with tax authorities in general.
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2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:I and many many others agree with you Tom - it is a totally unacceptable situation that appears to be developing right in front of us, and we do not know when it will become clear what is going to happen.
My Thai wife and I lived in Thailand for almost 5 years, then we lived in Australia for 5 years, and now we are back in Thailand. The plan was to live here for 10-15 years, and then (maybe) go back to Australia when very old (in 80s). This was all planned - the wife is Aust Citizen and I was forced to live there to 'qualify' for the Pension (living in Aust being one condition). Nowhere in all that planning both socially and financially was there any consideration for lodging tax returns and being obliged to pay income taxes in Thailand. Unlike some of the Exp[ats on here, my Thai Wife is adamant that I/we will not pay income taxes in Thailand, on the money I get as a Pension and from my life savings in Super.
Hopefuly when all the dust/cloud clears that will not be the case, but every 'announcement' since this was first advised by the Thai RD, has not stated that retired/married Expats are not being targetted to pay income taxes in Thailand.
We have two 'frontline' options, because only staying 179 days would be too difficult for me/us (we rent).
First is to move to another country nearby, so we can easily visit for holidays now and then - Malaysia and Philippines look the best options at this time - maybe Indonesia (Bali). Seconds is to move back to Australia - maybe somewhere up north so it is a much shorter flight to get here and to other destinations we planned to visit in Asia using Thailand as our base (Singapore, Japan, Korea, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia - I have no intention of ever returning to India).
It's like that for many people. A general feeling of uncertainty, which is evident from the sheer volume of posts. It is a fact that the state now wants to extract additional money from foreigners living here. It is currently difficult to estimate to what extent this will affect each individual's wallet. But what is certain is that the whole thing will not be a straight process, but rather, similar to the immigration offices, each regional tax office will make its own rules. You will then have to chase after some papers, you will certainly need a translator and you will have to get certification from your embassy. You will also need a Thai tax advisor for larger amounts. This certainly costs additional money, time and nerves. I also suspect that in the future Immigration will also want to see confirmation from the tax authorities for the annual extension. The nasty thing is, that pensioners, property owners and families who are married to Thais are the ones who are hit here. Many people cannot even quickly change their long-term life plans.
In any case, from 2024 I will try to transfer less money (which has already been completely taxed in my home country) to my Thai bank account. In 2024 I will not make any major investments in Thailand and will first wait and see how the annoying tax issue is handled in practice.
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1 hour ago, stat said:
The western union way is no real solution as you are still technically "remitting" money to Thailand. I assume you will have to declare money before landing (in future) and if you dont and get cought you have a big problem.
Everyone has to declare their money at thai customs if they are carrying more than the equivalent of 20,000 US dollars. Those who carry less are currently not required to register. The idea, that customs at the airport asks everyone how much cash they are carrying is absolute improbable
, given the hughes numbers of visitors arriving every day.
It will hopefully will takes many decades before the dream of every government in the world: - a completely cashless society, and before a complete control over people's cash transactions - becomes a reality.
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6 minutes ago, Lorry said:
It would be legal to bring it into Thailand
It would be illegal not to pay taxes on it.
Taxable is "income...brought into Thailand" (RD order 161/2566).
It doesn't matter how you bring it into Thailand, as a bank remittance, as cash or whatever.
The amounts you are talking about are quite noticeable upcountry, you would make yourself vulnerable.
Who wants to check how much money I have in my pocket when I arrive by plane from abroad? The reporting obligation only begins at 20K US.
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12 minutes ago, beammeup said:You'd probably pay more in Western Union fee's than the Thai tax.
I do not think so.
2 - 4 Million Thai Baht has a Taxrate from 30% !!!
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2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:Exactly. If the RD is directed to go forward under this new 'method', then without any exclusions for retired/married Expats (like in Malaysia, Philippiones, and other countries) that means all Expat remittances into Thailand can (will?) be viewed as taxable income. In the past we were put in the one of many 'too hard' baskets by the Thai RD - not worth the efforts. Clearly the Govt is pushing them to close the loopholes, and to also pursue all taxable income.
I do expect that there will be some sort of clarification for all people who could be affected under this change, not just Expats, prior to the end of December this year. I just cannot fathom Expats who think they can decide themselves what the tax office will decide is and is not taxable, and how DTAs can and will be applied by the RD. I also think they dont realise that claim (I thought it was not taxable), is not a valid response when/if they are audited in the future.
As I have said before, my plan in response to this new reality in Thailand, is to bring in extra funds before end December this year (because I will not be a tax resident this year). Then I plan in 2024 to will only bring in my Pension (audit trial included) and some small withdrawals from my Super savings (again audit trail included). I will then lodge a tax return in 2025 and see how it goes. However, depending on how things pan out, I may change that strategy. If Thailand Govt/RD provides a clear direction that my money will not be taxable income, and that I do not need to lodge a tax return, then it will be business as usual going forward. If the Thailand Govt/RD states that all Expat remittances into Thailand over XYZ Baht are taxable income, and each Expat has to claim exemptions and/or credits in their annual tax returns, then I will probably be leaving Thailand (depends on how much I might have to pay) depending on how my 2025 tax return goes.
Everything is still unclear to me.
I have absolutely no desire to additionally torture myself with any Thai tax authorities.
The annual paperwar with the immigration is already enough for me. Since many years I have been able to transfer a total of 1-3 million Thai Baht to Thailand per year to my Thai bank account without any problems.My money is already fully taxed in my home country from rental income, stock dividends and real estate sales. The money i transfered to Thailand was always used to support my Thai family and extended Thai relatives, some construction projects to give my relatives work, health insurance, car financing, school fees for my Thai nephews, etc.
This will no longer happen in 2024.I will transfer a large sum to my Thailand bank account for the last time in 2023 and then it will be over. Planned investments (buying farmland for my Thai family, building a Thai stock portfolio for my thai children, buying another condominium in Thailand) are also being put on hold completely.
It would also annoy me if I had to hire any dubious Thai tax advisors.
The only alternative strategies for me so far are: to be in Thailand for less than 180 days per year, or to go on short trips to the Philippines, Singapore, Hong Kong and use Western Union there to transfer up to 20,000 US dollars per trip, which I can then legally take with me back to Thailand.
But one thing that will certainly not happen in my case is, that some Thai politicians will enrich themselves with my money through double taxation.
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9 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:
Depends
What does it depend on? The money comes from savings investments for which, for example, I paid taxes in my home country 7 years ago. How will the Thai tax officials check this? Or will it be such a mess again that you'll have to pay an unofficial processing fee under the table?
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LoL. 120000 Baht bail.
Peanuts to get freedom.
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Clear as dirt. if I for example transfer 800K Thai Baht from my home bank to a Thai bank for my Non O retierment visa in 2024. Are taxes then due?
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Hard to believe this story. She milks him from 1000 million down to 10 million in 18 years. And he only now realizes that 99% of his money is gone? Nobody can be that stupid.
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As unclear as mud. If I want to buy a condo and send, for example, 5 million Thai baht to my Thai bank, should I pay taxes on it or provide any income tax documents from my home country? LOL. None of the local Thai tax officials can understand my tax notices at all. I'm afraid that money sent from abroad will first be frozen in the Thai bank and you won't be able to access your money. A horror thought.
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from September 21 to 25,
23 + 24 September is a weekend.
What kind of business meetings are these supposed to be?
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Police Reform in Thailand
This has been the same headline, coming up every year since over 20 years. But nothing has ever happened.
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Won over 1,500 public tenders, has his own transport companys, has his own private army, hires
killers and has the police in its pocket.
A textbook example of what organized crime is.
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Most likely free flights at taxpayer expense for family and friends.
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Two kiwis assault a Phuket policeman, Surachate summoned - Tim Newton Today - March 18
in Thailand News
Posted
It doesn't get much stupider than that. If the two brothers are unlucky, they could face a prison sentence of several years without parole.