boomerangutang
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Posts posted by boomerangutang
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Criteria for renewing visas has changed a lot. Read up, and get informed.
No it hasnt, it is still exactly the same as it was five or so years ago .
If you have a Thai Visa will allows re -entry (DETV, METV ED-visa wtc) you can still leave from Maesai to Tachielk and come back again, same as it ever was, nothing has changed in that regard .
P,S as you seem confused and you will give some BS reply, I will reply to your reply, even though you havent yet replied : A Visa Exempt stamp is not a Visa and even back when you could do Visa runs, you were not renewing a Visa, you were getting a new Visa exempt stamp .
THAT has changed, but renewing Visas is still the same as it ever was
We don't agree. The difference is, I have 1st hand knowledge of flip-flopping policies at the border. It sounds like you are reading from some policy statement.
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Again, if people travel hundreds of KM's with plans to either renew their visa or do a day-trip and are forbidden from doing so due to the subjective whims of a border guard (against regulations), then that's a problem. It's screws up the travelers' plans and causes unnecessary expenses.
Ant and everyone who goes to Maesai to renew their Visa is allowed to do so , renew an existing visa, that is .
You can do a day trip, if you have the correct return visa .
The only thing that you cannot do is to leave Thailand without getting an exit stamp .
Some people on tour groups are allowed to do this, which is quite understandable , maybe its part of their tour package , visit Thailand for a few weeks and also venture into Myanmar .I do recall seeing some felangs in Tachilek who were "on the nod" , which is slang for the state they get in after taking heroin , when they just keep nodding , you have been there many times and some people may have been wondering why do you keep wanting to go there so often , a few hours in a life time is enough for most people
Who is Ant? Do I care?
Criteria for renewing visas has changed a lot. Read up, and get informed.
A 'day-trip' (VIP pass) is not contingent on having ''the correct return visa." It doesn't involve visas of any sort.
I haven't seen anyone 'on the nod' as you mention. Maybe I don't recognize it, as you do.
Whomever reading this, who wonders why I like to visit Tachilek, can read my detailed explanation, several posts earlier.
But this isn't just about me, it's about non-Thai and non-Chinese people who would like to visit the Tachilek tourist market. Do we need a good-enough reason (to please Thai officials) to do so? Do I need a nanny to tell me where to go, where not to go, and how to think? Maybe if I was Thai or Chinese.
luke000: "some people may have been wondering why do you keep wanting to go there so often , a few hours in a life time is enough for most people"
I met a hill tribe man today who likes to go and trap and kill tiny blue birds in the forest. That's his choice. It's not my cup of tea. Yet I have other things I like to do. You have some things you like to do. I don't have to like to do what you do, and you don't have to do what like what I do. As long as neither of us break the law or harm anyone, then it's ok, isn't it? You don't have to approve of the things I like to do (like sunbathe while reading a book), and I don't have to approve of things you like to do. Fair enough? Sometimes I feel like I'm conversing with 5-year-olds.
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Does such a 1 day pass exist for a Farang living in Cambodia who wants to enter Thailand occasionally just for a bit of shopping?Constantly getting the visa-exempt will eventually get you into trouble.
The is no border pass available.
That partially answers my question, but you didn't say which border(s). No VIP-passes (day passes) at any borders other than Mae Sai-Tachilek?
VIP-passes are available at the northenmost Thai border but it's highly subjective. It's akin to tossing a coin. Some farang get 'em, some don't. I haven't figured out -whether it depends on who's on duty, whether the farang is handsome/charming enough, or what. It's frustrating, because some farang travel long distances - and none can be sure whether they'll be allowed to walk the 100 meters to the Burmese market or not. A complete toss-up.
It's not a toss-up if you're Chinese and part of a large group. Then you're allowed the VIP day-pass, but you must have a Thai guide leading your group (as if you need a guide to show you how to walk around a tourist market).
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Even in the US, whether you are allowed in or not, depends on the immigration officer you encounter. They state very clearly that having a valid visa does not guarantee entry. If you are not on your best behavior and don’t answer questions to the satisfaction of the immigration officer you encounter, you are out of luck.
We all know that appearance and manners are important in Thailand and those who refuse to play along do so at their own peril. Just like any other country, Thailand has the right to refuse entry to anyone they wish.Yes, but in Australia, and I assume the USA is the same, Immigration officers still have to adhere to legislation and in this case (VIP pass) policy.
Countries state a visa does not guarantee entry in case evidence is found that the person in question intends or has breached visa conditions.
Yes manners are important, but I doubt anyone would be refused entry into Australia and or the US purely because the person failed the attitude test
or was wearing the wrong colour shirt.
It seems to me that getting a VIP pass these days is a bit of a lottery and can be dependent on the sort of day an officer is having, which is not right.
There should be a straight forward policy on these things.
Yes we grant them or no we don't.
Good post. There are rules, and those should be adhered to. For example, don't bring drugs or guns across the border. I don't believe Imm officials are trained to allow or forbid entry based on suppositions of another person's perceived attitude, lack of politeness, or less than dandy physical appearance. One person could look handsome to one official, and unkempt to another. Should the official who thinks the person looks unkempt, therefore forbid that person to leave to walk 100 meters to visit a market?
I can read between the lines about the posts from certain people who counter everything I post. They surmise that I am rude or perhaps they think my appearance is shoddy. I don't dress like Donald Trump and I don't turn on the charm as well as others. However, I have had decent conversations with some of the border Imm officials - sometimes we share jokes. In other words, relationships are ok. On the other hand, I (and others) may be on a blacklist or something similar - though sometimes I'm told 'mai dai' before they see my passport. If I'm on a blacklist, I'd hope they'd at least inform me, if that were so. Yet, other farang (not just me) have been told a flat 'mai dai' for VIP-pass requests recently. The policy is not consistent. If some posters want to forever justify everything Thai officials do, then that's their choice, but it makes them look silly.
People who respond (to this thread) with biased opinions are welcome to do so. But what counts is first- or 2nd-hand facts of what's actually going on at the border. That's what I have been posting (and yes, some commentary also). However, the people who are insinuating I'm rude or bad appearance are not basing their opinions on any facts. It's conjecture at best, while not adding any factual info to the conversation.
Again, if people travel hundreds of KM's with plans to either renew their visa or do a day-trip and are forbidden from doing so due to the subjective whims of a border guard (against regulations), then that's a problem. It's screws up the travelers' plans and causes unnecessary expenses.
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I've heard from another farang - about 2 farang recently doing VIP day-trips recently. So that further bolsters my assertion that the Thai Imm officers up there are inconsistent. Some people ok to go t hrough, ....others not. So how is the criteria meted out?
>>> based on a person's appearance, demeanor?
>>> depending on who's on duty? How they're feeling that moment about farang? ....like farang? don't like farang?
>>> whether the person has Asian features? Older? Younger? Smiles a lot? Too much facial hair? Yellowish teeth?
>>> something else?
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The Duty Free shop on the Burmese side assure farang tourists that it is quite acceptable to bring back 3 litres of alcohol (not just 1 litre) . They state it is an "agreement" they have with Thai immigration.
Don't know how much truth there is in that, but last year I and 2 friends each brought back 3 litres each. We passed through Thai immigration with no trouble, no searches or questions asked. Does anyone else have information about this?
it's off-topic, but ok. I've heard 2 liters.
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I'm familiar with the northernmost border crossing from Thailand, at the Mae Sai / Tachilek crossing. There used to be VIP passes (for day-only) available. The tourist only had to show two photocopies plus their passport, and pay a 100 baht fee on the Thai side. It's recently gone up to 200 baht. The nice part is that the farang's passport is not stamped, it's merely held in the Imm office, and given back when the farang returns to Thailand before (or just after) sundown. It's convenient for seeing some of the Burmese town, and for shopping.
At the Mae Sai / Tachilek border, the Imm officials will say 'mai dai' (cannot) right away, when asked about VIP pass. However, a persistent person like me will find it's not a complete 'mai dai.' After conversing for several minutes with a friendly border official I found the VIP pass is available for groups of Chinese tourists IF they're traveling with a Thai guide. But I also heard of another exception. A farang friend of mine was allowed a VIP recently, and he was traveling alone. Other farang, traveling solo or in small groups are not allowed. So one of my questions is: Why the inconsistencies? Was my friend particularly handsome - and that's why he was given special service? Was there one official there who was decent, while all the others are restrictive? I honestly don't know.
Another question: Why do border officials start off repeating 'mai dai' - when it's not really 'mai dai.' Why don't the speak honestly?
And also, as the title to this thread alludes: Are there similar dynamics at play at other border crossings? Thai/Burma? Others?
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I certainly didn't mean any offence but I'll admit I'd like to see something official about why or why not VIP passes are/are not granted.
I suspect that it has more to do with well connected tour guides than the nationality of the tour groups that they take over the border if they pass unrestricted while others do not.
Thai Imm dept don't always publish official policy statements. Even if they do, where are you going to read them? In their in-house newsletter written in Thai?
I related several bits of data garnered from uniformed officials at the border. Some of that data was garnered by me, and some gathered by others. You can choose to believe what I shared - or not. Their policies are inconsistent, often hidden, and subjectively meted out.
It's well known that the current self-appointed Thai gov't wants to do everything it can to please Chinese. They prove it every week, with submarine deals or railroad deals, or no-visa agreements, etc. etc. Enabling groups of Chinese to do day trips is just another way that manifests. Unfortunately, the policy is biased, because it's based on a person's physical appearance (ethnic persuasion or whatever). It may also be based on nationality. In other words, all non-Asian tourists are stigmatized by the policy. It's similar to entry at Thai parks. The Thai people minding the kiosks at parks can tell from 10 meters away whether they're going to let the approaching people in for 20 baht or for 200 or 400 baht. It's discrimination and it ain't pretty. There are other drawbacks to such discriminatory policies, but I won't make a list right now.
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people ask me questions on this thread; I answer. Plus, I relate actual events + mine and other peoples' actual experiences at the border. Included are actual events + verbatum conversations with border officials.
I ask questions and get no answers. The only responses are vacuous and subjective accusations based on xenophobic bias. No actual facts re; the border situation.
There's a pattern here in this discussion. Do you see it?
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Do you genuinely believe that tour groups are getting blanket VIP passes while individuals are/were being refused?
Yes. How do you see it?
However, there's the farang man who I spoke with who recently got a VIP pass, who was traveling solo. So that indicates that the policy is not consistent. Some get it, others don't. What's the criteria? Do you know (for sure, or just guessing)? or are we going to hear from those who think it boils down to some sort of farang bad-attitude reason. Or, perhaps how a farang looks, his appearance, his facial expression, his facial hair, age, thickness of hair on his arms, how pointy his nose is, .....? I don't know. Do you?
Let's hear particularly from people with first hand experience.
As for 'tour groups are getting blanket VIP passes' ....that's what the uniformed Imm officer told me. While we were talking, a large group of Chinese were going through to cross the bridge. She couldn't say 'mai dai' any more (as she had been saying to me for several minutes prior) so she had to admit that groups could go over - if accompanied by a Thai (not a Burmese) guide. Yet, that still counters the story of the solo farang which I referred to above.
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I suspect what an immigration officer might say to you may not hold true for everyone. Attitude and reputation often affect the way one is treated by officialdom.
I suspected that also. Yet the Imm authorities I've spoken with in recent weeks (2 of them) didn't know who I was. They gave me their spin on the situation before they saw my passport. Maybe they have a mug shot of me in their office with a note of warning, I don't know. Is that something you're alluding to?
I've also got info from Thai Imm authorities at that border - which were conveyed via other people. In other words, I get info when I wasn't there in person. That's been 3 times in recent weeks. So in those instances, unless those people were on some sort of 'black list' those farang got the correct info.
Trouble is, Thai Imm authorities have no consistency at the border. I checked back with the farang man who got the VIP pass recently, and he said he was traveling solo. So that contradicts what I was told by Imm authority the other day.
Some people travel long distances to plan their vacations. It's a stone drag if, when they get to the border, their plans are dashed due to the subjective whims of whomever is sitting behind the booth. Thai Imm should make regulations (hopefully reasonable ones), and try to be consistent. Currently they're not. Not by a long shot.
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I think that you are getting confused, it has never been allowed for felangs to leave Maesai without getting stamped out. Why would a person go to Maesai to do a visa run if their visa was exactly the same as before they went and their visa didnt get extended.
At Tachilek, you leave your passport at the immigration office and get a piece of paper , but this is just to make sure that you leave via Tachilek .
If youve been to Tachilek so many times, why would you want to go there again, if it wasnt to renew your Thai Visa?
Again, please see my response above. There are 2 issues being discussed.
As for you closing question: Tachilek is more than just a visa run destination for some people. It's not an exciting town - still doesn't even have a swimming pool. But there are some reasons why people like myself like to go and hang out there. I keep a bicycle there, and also hike the hills surrounding. there are several reasons why I cherish going to Tachilek, most of them re; getting away from Thailand. Similar to the reasons a city person would go to a park to relax. I like the food selections in Tachilek better than what I find in Thailand. The people are friendlier in general, or at least not as put-on (in my estimate) as Thais. I could also find fault with Tachilek (its trashed streams, for example), but you probably don't want to hear about that.
Parting shots: The dogs there aren't as eager to bark, and they don't have Malls and gridlock yet, ....but they will. Tachilek still has some whispers of how Asia used to be. Thailand, on the other hand, is so desperate to try and appear modern, that it's losing its charm, week by week. Burmese are generally more comfortable in being who they are. Thais are always trying to be richer, whiter and more modern.
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As I said, it was always a privilege, not a right, and when privileges are abused they are taken away.
Agreed, I don't know how many were refused and I'm not about to try to prove a negative, I would be surprised if it was a lot because I doubt that many were even aware of it's existence, I've never seen it mentioned other than in this Chiang Rai forum.
Who abused the 'privilege'? .....of paying an added Bt.100 on the Thai side, for hanging out for a short while in Tachilek? How can that be 'abused?' I don't think it's a privilege, any more than allowing people to enter a park and look at the nice trees.
It's not 'proving a negative' (look up the definition). We're just bandying around numbers. You think it was just a few people were inconvenienced, and I think it was more like a few hundred (maybe thousands). Of the 10 or so people I know who were refused a day-pass, all were very disappointed. Maybe that brings some sort of inner glee to Thai Imm (it cements their control over farang) ...or to some posters herein.
If anyone has a good reason for Thai authorities to restrict day trips to only Chinese groups, while denying it to all other non-Thais, please mention it.
The ceasement of allowing people to do visa runs at Maesai was well publisised and months in advance, immigration began numbering the VES and telling people to not come back to Maesai and to get a proper visa from an Embassy .
People who went to Maedsai regulary were told monthd in advance that they soon wont be able to do it
If you have a Thai visa that allows you to re enter Thailand, you can still use Maesai to renew it, you just cannot use Maeasi to get endless Visa exempt stamps
There are 2 separate issues being discussed here. The one you're addressing above is 'border runs.'
The other one is the day-trips a.k.a. VIP passes. That's what I've been referring to in recent posts herein.
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As I said, it was always a privilege, not a right, and when privileges are abused they are taken away.
Agreed, I don't know how many were refused and I'm not about to try to prove a negative, I would be surprised if it was a lot because I doubt that many were even aware of it's existence, I've never seen it mentioned other than in this Chiang Rai forum.
Who abused the 'privilege'? .....of paying an added Bt.100 on the Thai side, for hanging out for a short while in Tachilek? How can that be 'abused?' I don't think it's a privilege, any more than allowing people to enter a park and look at the nice trees.
It's not 'proving a negative' (look up the definition). We're just bandying around numbers. You think it was just a few people were inconvenienced, and I think it was more like a few hundred (maybe thousands). Of the 10 or so people I know who were refused a day-pass, all were very disappointed. Maybe that brings some sort of inner glee to Thai Imm (it cements their control over farang) ...or to some posters herein.
If anyone has a good reason for Thai authorities to restrict day trips to only Chinese groups, while denying it to all other non-Thais, please mention it.
HHHmmm. You want to leave a one Country and enter another and then leave that Country and then come back again, without using your passport to get stamped in or out?
It's been an on-going option for years at the border we're referring to. It's a hassle-free policy for people to walk a hundred meters over the bridge and mill around the large tourist market on the Tachilek side. It's good for tourists and good for vendors. Tourists get a little exposure to Burma, buy a few trinkets, sample some Burmese food. It's win-win. The policy changed in recent months. For several months, Thai-side officials said it was no longer available. It was a blanket statement, no ifs ands or buts. Now I find they weren't telling the truth. Well, I suspected they weren't all along, when I saw many Asian tourists going over and enjoying the market in Tachilek. Now I find the real policy is and has been: Allow day trips to foreigners, but mostly just to Asian groups, who also happen to have a Thai minder.
I'm still asking the question: Why the restrictions? Some possible answers:
>>> If employs a Thai guide. In reality, who really needs a Thai guide to stroll around a Burmese market? Ok, maybe Chinese groups do, but fine, if that's they're choice. They can employ one guide per tourist if they want to. But why should that restriction apply to everyone?
>>> Here's a statement from a Thai official to a farang who was not allowed to cross over for a day trip in November. The farang was sorely annoyed, but that didn't matter to the official (who was chuckling). The reason given by the official: "why you go buy things in B'ma? You can buy same here in Mae Sai."
>>> In their zeal to bend over backwards to please the Chinese, Thai officialdom wants to accommodate their tour groups in every way possible. Boomer's response: that's ok, but should that policy include discriminating against and inconveniencing non-Asian tourists?
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Paranoia driven conspiracy theories make for great Hollywood storylines but don’t play that well in real life. I have never had a bad experience with Thai Immigration and feel very uncomfortable when I read derogatory comments about their supposed actions and motivations.
You've probably never been mugged in Chicago either, but does that render every report of a mugging in Chicago a paranoid conspiracy theory? What I reported about the MS/Tachilek border crossing is what was told to me by a uniformed on-duty Thai Immigration authority. What's conspiracy theory about that? When you get over your shrill finger-pointing, please tell us what, in my post, is not true.
As for 'derogatory.' If I report that immigration lines are long at an airport, is that derogatory? You're so eager and quick to try to defend everything Thai that you wind up sounding silly. If a Thai person points out a problem with Thai officialdom, you'll think that's fine. If a farang points out the same problem, you'll jump up and down shouting 'derogatory conspiracy theory!!!'
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As I said, it was always a privilege, not a right, and when privileges are abused they are taken away.
Agreed, I don't know how many were refused and I'm not about to try to prove a negative, I would be surprised if it was a lot because I doubt that many were even aware of it's existence, I've never seen it mentioned other than in this Chiang Rai forum.
Who abused the 'privilege'? .....of paying an added Bt.100 on the Thai side, for hanging out for a short while in Tachilek? How can that be 'abused?' I don't think it's a privilege, any more than allowing people to enter a park and look at the nice trees.
It's not 'proving a negative' (look up the definition). We're just bandying around numbers. You think it was just a few people were inconvenienced, and I think it was more like a few hundred (maybe thousands). Of the 10 or so people I know who were refused a day-pass, all were very disappointed. Maybe that brings some sort of inner glee to Thai Imm (it cements their control over farang) ...or to some posters herein.
If anyone has a good reason for Thai authorities to restrict day trips to only Chinese groups, while denying it to all other non-Thais, please mention it.
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Update re; border crossing: I spoke for several minutes with a Thai woman official there. She started by saying no VIP passes, period. After speaking awhile, she admitted that groups are allowed to cross for day-only, but only if they have a Thai guide (I assume that means a certified Thai guide, and not just a Thai person who says he/she's a guide). Most big groups that go over for short visits are Chinese, so that rule must be tailor-made for them.
It's yet another non-sensible, unannounced rule plastered in place by the subjective crew who control the Thai side of the border. Why is a guide needed to wander around the market by the bridge? Are we 3-year-olds? I know more about Tachilek than any 200 Thai guides combined, but that's not the issue. It's about control and money. Bureaucrats creed: If we can control it, we will restrict it, to the 10th degree. And if there's added money to be made, under or over the table, fine.
The cattle chute at the entryway into Thailand is narrower than before. They halved the passage space from 3ft to 1.5ft. In the several minutes I was there, farang were tripping over baggage and each other, trying to maneuver to negotiate the tiny windows where eye contact is not possible, unless a person squats down with their butt pressed against the metal divider grate. It's impersonal to the 10th degree. Similar, but not quite as ridiculous, as the modified entry kiosk on the west side.
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No, no problems, a few people were refused VIP passes (a permit for leaving the country without a passport) last year but business as usual otherwise.
'a few'? You know how many? It could have averaged dozens a day for 3 months. Some of those folks may have come long distances to cross over, and were let down.
More dire was the change of policy re; 30 day entry voa's or whatever they're called. Most people assumed 30 days meant 30 days, but when they get to the border, they find it meant closer to 13 days. Those same folks are then compelled to go to another office to pay a high price for a visa. Many folks travel long distances with the plan to renew their voa near the end of the their 30 days (it's actually 29 days). Then, instead of getting a free renewal, which has been a policy for decades, they get an expensive surprise, and nothing they can say or do can change the scenario. Perhaps things are a bit fairer now. We'll see. Everyone reading this has probably had multiple 2-week extentions - transacted on the last day of their respective voa's. All of a sudden, Thai immigration changes the rule, and thousands of tourists are then compelled to comply by paying close to $100 each. It also affects their travel plans which likely translates to less days spent in Thailand. In sum, it was an easy way for Imm to bring in a lot more farang money, while also turning thousands of people off to visiting Thailand.
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a friend told me he crossed the border at Mae Sai 2 days ago on a day-trip VIP pass, no problem.
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5 gallons jug of water = 12 baht
1 liter bottle of water = 15 baht
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there are many products which constitute much less than the container they're in. Both food and non-food. Here are a few:
yogurt: about 45% of the container is air
white glue: it comes in a hard plastic tub with a lid. Inside, the glue is in a plastic bag. When you squeeze the glue from the bag into the tub, it fills about half.
teflon tape: You think you're getting a lot of tape, but you're just getting a bit wrapped around a large diameter false inner part.
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ok, maybe I'm old fashioned. It's been called visa-on-arrival since the buggy whip. Sorry if it's not the strictly proper semantic, but that's essentially what it is. A visa is permission to enter and legally be in a foreign country. That's what people get when they enter Thailand. I'll try to remember the proper nomenclature.
It's like people should say "may I...." when they say "can I...." I guess I got the naughty boy gene, and it's hard to get rid of it. Good thing we're not married, eh?
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One who cannot be named as he is unable to post again this year contacted me privately today to tell me that a friend had been in touch and there were no VIP passes to be issued this month.
The 'One Who Cannot Be Named' is back. Orange you glad?!
I haven't been to the border in several weeks, but I spoke with a friend who was up there with a friend of his. The other guy had a 30-day entry from coming in at Bkk airport, no problem. Then wanted to visit Tachilek. He still had 3 weeks left on his visa-on-arrival when he crossed over from Thailand, but when he returned, the guard only gave him just a ONE WEEK extension. So, if he had not done a tourist day-trip, he still would have had 3 weeks to meander around in Thailand. As it happened, he lost 2 weeks of hoped-for relaxation. Now he has to scramble to go to either Vientienne or Malaysia (lots of added time & expense) if he wants to continue as a tourist in Thailand.
I was going to ask if anyone has any 1st hand knowledge of whether Thai authorities at Mae Sai are allowing VIP passes (day-trips), but it's a moot question. It's more likely they've tightened the screws even more since the KT verdict. It's ironic that; for many years, Burma was the oppressive regime which wouldn't allow protests. Now the tables are turned: Burma allows protests, and Thailand's junta doesn't - unless it's in front of (against) the US embassy.
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Not just one bag, but often multiple layers of plastic - for nearly every consumer item. Yet, there are bigger chunks of plastic churned out each hour of each day: There are large items like furniture, plastic boats, large toys, utility items, ....the list is long and wide.
Plastic doesn't completely degrade in the ocean. At best it degrades over decades to large inorganic molecules - and forms a massive goop. None of its lesser-sized products do any good for any living thing. Plastic bits the size of small seeds are multi-colored and are readily eaten by many sea creatures. It provides zero nutrition and instead packs up inside their bodies and kills them. So, plastic and its residue badly affect sea creatures through the entire spectrum, from smallest (plankton, one-celled organisms, krill) ....on up to whales and whale sharks. People are one of several species at the top of the food chain, so anyone who eats seafood is eating some measure of plastic. Bon apetite. I chose to stop eating shellfish as a young boy. Later I stopped eating tuna due to overfishing. Now, I avoid all food grown in the sea or fresh water. Q: where can you find clean bodies of water - anywhere?
Mae Sai/Tachilek Border Info
in Chiang Rai
Posted
latest on VIP-pass (day pass). Yesterday afternoon, 2 farang asked for VIP and were allowed.