PunkRockerGuy
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On 10/16/2019 at 3:02 PM, weegeesaid:Hi John....it will be there somewhere, even in another section....read my input again...I came straight home and put it up for everyone to read...before I forgot....lol.
I've received exactly the same answers from Lopburi Immigration. Non-O Extensions do not require insurance.
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13 minutes ago, Jingthingsaid:
I agree that it's looking at this point that extensions based on O visas will noteffected(at least for now) but that extensions based on OA visas may be at least at some offices and perhaps much more widely. I don't think you need to be any kind of lawyer to have noticed that at this point in time. But still,people need to keep an eye onthisgoing forward.
BTW, and correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is that Ubonjoehere thinks the police order means that NO extensions should have the insurance requirement. Yet some major offices are sayingthat extensions with an OA base are compelledto have the insurance. So if that's true, in that sense,the Integrity Legal lawyer would be at least HALF right. His read is that it will apply to both O and OA based extensions. So if it "only"applies to OA based extensions he would then have been on to something if not everything.
You're right. No need for a lawyer for IMO, simple Immigrationissues. Even when I was just a 24-year oldengineer, I did all the legal work for my Japanese ex-wife's Green Card in the U.S. It's not rocket science.
I don't know what UbonJoesaid, nor do I bother to listen to lawyers in Bkk. Most lawyers in Bkk overcharge, don't provide deliverables, etc. That's one reason I closed my law firm in 2009. Just tired of the infighting between Bkk law firms. I still do legal work freelance, especially for my wife's companies and Japanese business partners, but I really don't follow any advice of Bkk lawyers. I can determine most legal matters that require a legal mind with my own from my own Law Degreeand business experience.
So, I am not qualified to affirm or not affirm what other lawyers are saying.
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37 minutes ago, PunkRockerGuysaid:
My wife called Lopburi Immigration 2-days ago and spoke to the upstairs lieutenant we've known for 5+ years. The officer said 1.) Myself being a Non-O and merely extending it yearly, there is no insurance requirement for my current Non-O. 2.) She implied in the future, my payments into the Private SS fund would likely cover any insurance requirement.
In some odd way, I was "lucky" to almost die after that superbike accident broke my femur, tibia, broke both shoulders and dislocated one that destroyed the soft tissue in the right shoulder over time, endured 1-month of a coma, 4-months of renal failure or insufficiency, requiring dialysis for 4-months, and when the top ortho surgeon could not repair my tibia break/fracture in 14+ places, he referred me to his professor (supposedly the top orthopedic trauma surgeon in Thailand, who has also done extra work at Mass General Hospital & George-Washington Uni Hospital), that specialist then referred me to the pain clinic for morphine and other expensive treatments, the Psychiatric Dept. for PTSD and anxiety/sleeping problems, MRI's, CT scans, etc., all at NO COST to me. Only recently, one of my meds has fallen out of the SS Approved Pharmaceutical list.
I roughly calculated what 1-month in the American ICU system, 15+ surgeries, experimental therapies on my right shoulder, ambulance costs from the accident site where my heart stopped, etc., and I came up with figures close to $550,000 USD. My cost in Thailand for saving my life: 12,000 baht for a surgical steel plate on my tibia that was not covered by SS Insurance. It was actually about 68,000 baht for both surgical steel implants, but I had BBL Bank accident insurance for 50k that costs me 300 baht/month and it covered all but 12,000 baht for implants in my body.
I might dislike many things about living in Thailand, but that kind of medical treatment that is 95% covered every 3 months would have bankrupted me in the U.S.
PRG
Sorry, an important missing part of the story was the top ortho surgeon at Kasemradcould not repair my tibia properly, so he referred me to his professor (top ortho doctor in Thailand) at Ramathibodi, and after that, every doctor will refer me to another specialist dept., all covered under the Private SS Fund I pay 650 baht/month for. Best health insurance plan I have ever had in my life. Better than my Health Insurance at Sikorski Helicopter (United Technologies) Senior Engineer insurance plan.
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On 10/15/2019 at 3:24 PM, TallGuyJohninBKKsaid:
I believe the explanation Tanoshihas--whichis different than Joe's at this point --goes like this.
--If you're already here on already-issued retirement extensions of stay based on some past O-A, whether it be two or three or 10 years back, your future retirement extensions would not require insurance as things stand now.
--But, if you....
a. receive a new O-A issued from Oct. 31 onward or
b. make an entry on an O-A permission to stay on any date from Oct. 31 onward, including on a previously issued O-A, then you would be requiredto have insurance then... And on all future retirement extensions stemming from that O-A.
That, I believe,is the interpretation he has... How that will work out in real life...remains to be seen.
From my perspective, the O-A Visa holds no appeal. When I took a year off in 2009 to work for the US government back in the States, I let my Non-B and Work Permit, which by virtueof owning myown law firm and previously working in the old Thaksin admin, had always done them myself. So, when I decided to comeback to Thailand in 2010, I asked my then gf to sign and stamp a Non-B Invitation Letter to invite me back to Thailand, which I did at the Thai Embassy in Washington, DC. After a couple ofyears running my wife's companies, I nearly died in a superbike accident, and one day during my 3-year rehab recovery, the Lopburi Immigration Officer pulled my now wife aside and asked her why did I pay taxes on my mandatory reporting salary of 65K baht when I could just retire and finish rehab more easily and pay no tax on a Non-O.
Why are people applying for Non O-A's in the first place. I don't get it.
PRG
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On 10/15/2019 at 4:04 PM, Jingthing said:
So it's a conspiracy thing then, huh? I'm not saying he's right but I'm not as cynical as you are about his videos. I think he tries to sincerely givegoodinformation just as some of our experts here do. I can understand people hating on him because they don't LIKE his interpretations. I don't LIKE his interpretations. But even without his videos, I would find it unethical to broadcast total CERTAINTY about what these already done changes actually will mean until enough time passes so that we can SEE in real life what has changed.
Well, I don't come here often, only when I find something of interest in Thai Visa Headline articles or an issue that may or may not affect me.
Just because he's a lawyer and people pay him money for his advice,does not make him correct. We all have our credentials. Me? I'm a Yale Doctor of Law who ran a rather famous law firm in Bkk from 2004-2009 and I did Thai and US Immigration. People paid me and I worked with DSI, Thai Immigration, etc.... blah, blah. I'm saying my read of the regulations and Order, my and my wife's discussions with Lopburi Immigration, ALL point to a Non-O Extension does NOT require any medical insurance, and if it does in the future, I am very likely to be covered under my Thai Private SS Fund Coverage.
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On 10/15/2019 at 6:07 PM, Sheryl said:
No process for doing so at present. I doubt it even occurred to the people who developed the police order.
Now, someone could certainly try presenting proof of SS cover (a letter from SS office) instead of the mandated insurance certificate. Depending on the IO, this might or might not work. You would likely need to discuss with the senior officer (who have some discretionary powers) and it can be hard in many places to get past the gate keepers/ front office staff.
Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
My wife called Lopburi Immigration 2-days ago and spoke to the upstairs lieutenant we've known for 5+ years. The officer said 1.) Myself being a Non-O and merely extending it yearly, there is no insurance requirement for my current Non-O. 2.) She implied in the future, my payments into the Private SS fund would likely cover any insurance requirement.
In some odd way, I was "lucky" to almost die after that superbike accident broke my femur, tibia, broke both shoulders and dislocated one that destroyed the soft tissue in the right shoulder over time, endured 1-month of a coma, 4-months of renal failure or insufficiency, requiring dialysis for 4-months, and when the top ortho surgeon could not repair my tibia break/fracture in 14+ places, he referred me to his professor (supposedly the top orthopedic trauma surgeon in Thailand, who has also done extra work at Mass General Hospital & George-Washington Uni Hospital), that specialist then referred me to the pain clinic for morphine and other expensive treatments, the Psychiatric Dept. for PTSD and anxiety/sleeping problems, MRI's, CT scans, etc., all at NO COST to me. Only recently, one of my meds has fallen out of the SS Approved Pharmaceutical list.
I roughly calculated what 1-month in the American ICU system, 15+ surgeries, experimental therapies on my right shoulder, ambulance costs from the accident site where my heart stopped, etc., and I came up with figures close to $550,000 USD. My cost in Thailand for saving my life: 12,000 baht for a surgical steel plate on my tibia that was not covered by SS Insurance. It was actually about 68,000 baht for both surgical steel implants, but I had BBL Bank accident insurance for 50k that costs me 300 baht/month and it covered all but 12,000 baht for implants in my body.
I might dislike many things about living in Thailand, but that kind of medical treatment that is 95% covered every 3 months would have bankrupted me in the U.S.
PRG
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On 10/14/2019 at 12:50 PM, blackcabsaid:
Work permit holders that work in businesses and pay Social Fund contributions are coveredby the Thai Social Fund system, the same as Thai citizens.
I would imagine that work permit holders in this category world be the last tobe requiredto have insurance as the Thai government already covers them.
I'm not entirely sure if teachers with work permits are covered in the same way however.
I am fully covered by the Thai SS System as a Non O Retirement Visa holder. My medical costs run in the $1,000/month range after a severe motorcycle accident in Thailand in 2013 that forced me to stop working full-time. There is a PRIVATE SS fund you can make the SAME payments you did as a WP holder and it covers me just as it did when I was the MD of my companies. I do not know if they will allow SS system fund coverage tobe used, but if it doesn't, looks like I am gone from LOS next June 2020. Even my mother-in-law only has one problem at 73 years old, slightly high blood pressure. She is Thai, and CANNOT obtain Thai healthcare coverage. Another crazy demand from us retirees that makes No sense. Prayutdoesn't know how to create an economy, so he just increases taxes and rates on everything.
I have been covered for 6+ years under SS Private fund. I'm not going to go out and buy more insurance. I have a Thai SS Insurance card, and it pays far more than any healthcare plan would.
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On 11/28/2018 at 11:38 AM, onera1961 said:
Yes, what was the standard procedure in those days and when did embassies start issuing income letters?
Maybe things have been too easy for me and I follow the rules whenever possible. I currently use the 800,000 baht rule 3 months prior to renewal for the Non-O, although sometimes just keep 800,000 all-year-round. I don't know why people have problems with Imm. Here in Lopburi, they are friendly, don't bother much with exactly 3-months prior, I would think 800,000 baht should be no big deal for any farang looking to stay here year-round and I never have to report for my 90-day report. They always mail and email me my slip for stapling in my passport.
Back in the mid-2000's when I was certificate married to a Thai girl I just went to the US Embassy, filled-out a form that said I earn [whatever amount I put down in the application form] and I printed a letter from my dormant old Japanese company that I had "such and such retirement benefit income yearly" and the US Embassy printed a letter for my income signed by the Dept. Ambassador. That was around 2006 for my Thai Wife Visa at that time.
Not sure why people have so many problems with Imm. Here in mid-country, it's easy-peasy and I show my face once a year except when I bring back souvenirs when I travel abroad. I have quite a few academic degrees, so they call me "Dr" when I go there in person, but I have always been friendly with them and never had to go the bribe route and everything is as smooth as silk.
PRG
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2 hours ago, BritTim said:
It may be "tax evasion" (illegal) but may be (legal) "tax avoidance". It depends on your nationality, where, when and how the money is earned, and possibly other factors.
For Americans, in my companies, if you are a US resident, we take out the Thai taxes through K-Bank payroll system and YOU, the US resident, are the one who is responsible for filing a Tax Return, if your income exceeds the maximum non-taxable income allowed for your "household". The last time I had a long discussion with a British friend, he told me that UK residents need only file their taxes to England for the first year abroad. He told me that if he lived overseas for more than 1 calendar year he need not report his income back home. I have no way to know if this is true, but perhaps another Brit could let us know his/her situation.
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22 hours ago, arithai12 said:
Wow.
Maybe I wasn't clear: your initial question was about whether pensions are taxable, and I believe so - following the rule as other foreign-generated income, that is you only pay tax on what you transfer in the same solar year. As a result, I do not need to pay tax if I choose so. I believe many here are following this approach, fully within the law. I wrote that my lawyer confirmed this.
I do want to pay tax for other reasons, and on other sources of income. For this I use the lawyer, who I assure you is not getting rich doing my paperwork ?
That is EXACTLY correct. I am a lawyer here in Thailand, also.
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1 hour ago, Bastos60 said:
That is a complete false statement.
Income is taxable in every country. But what you refer to is what is considered taxable income and where was this income generated.
If I work for my company in thailand while on holiday for a non-thai customer I don't generate an income in Thailand, I am still generating it in my country of residence where
I will have to pay taxes. I will never be taxed in Thailand since it is nolonger an income when I transfer it into a Thai bankaccount, it is just personal finances.A digital nomad that recruits customers through the internet from all over the world, is generating an income in his country of residence, even if he is abroad while on holiday, yes read carefully, holiday, digital nomads are always a resident in whatever country they come from and considered holidaymakers in visiting countries. It is perfectly possible to NOT DECLARE your income since it is very difficult to track but that is just common tax evasion.
Neither of your examples apply to digital nomads. Why even bother writing them down.
Every country has their tax laws and they are not the same for every country, but one thing is generally considered the same, money generated from labour is considered an income.
You are incorrect. I'm a pretty well-known lawyer in Thailand under my real name. Under Thai law, if you are sitting at a desk in Thailand at your computer and you are actually working while on "vacation" or as a resident here, despite your client/customer is in another country, Thailand considers that taxable income, and technically you DO NEED a work permit for that. You are just lucky that for now, Thailand is confused on how to handle this or tax the income.
Where most of you are wrong is that when you transfer money from abroad, even if that is pension or salary, to your Thai bank account, it is NOT taxable income. I worked for the DOR, MOI, DSI, and numerous Thai Senators. Please do not give us misleading digital nomad information.
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18 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:
Tax laws differ from country to country.
For Belgium for instance you do pay taxes in Belgium even if you are a resident in Thailand and if that pension is transferred into a Thai bankaccount you are supposed to declare the pension in thailand and pay additional taxes on it. Up to this point, and I checked official documentation, Belgium has no bilateral agreements with Thailand to avoid double taxation. But there is a loophole,
if you leave the pension in a Belgian bank account and take money out of it as you need it, it is not considered income but personal finances from the point of the Thai government.It's the same for Americans. The IRS hunts us around the world like dogs ....
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On 6/12/2018 at 9:14 AM, Fairynuff said:
So the fact the money will spent in Thailand, purchases will have VAT paid on them, jobs will be kept......that’s not a win for Thailand? Think before you criticise.
I don't think that was the meaning he intended. It is a known fact, most Thais and many foreigners here do not pay the "real" taxes they should be paying.
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Just now, PunkRockerGuy said:
When I was using my Non-B visa and working directly as MD of my companies, and therefore needed a Work Permit, it DID require a blood test for Syphilis on a few occasions, which did require me to go to the hospital that could perform the blood test. Other times, it was the simple 50-100 baht "check pulse, blood pressure, stethoscope" and basic medical background questions that were all done at a small clinic.
I have NEVER encountered the chest x-ray requirement for any Work Permit I had from 2002-2015 or so.
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When I was using my Non-B visa and working directly as MD of my companies, and therefore needed a Work Permit, it DID require a blood test for Syphilis on a few occasions, which did require me to go to the hospital that could perform the blood test. Other times, it was the simple 50-100 baht "check pulse, blood pressure, stethoscope" and basic medical background questions that were all done at a small clinic.
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On 6/11/2018 at 6:17 PM, Suradit69 said:
There was some form they asked you to sign ... maybe a couple of years ago ... when doing the 90 day report. It was something the officers weren't enthused about. After you signed, they threw it in a pile with some contempt.
Maybe that was the thing where you were supposed to list your social media accounts and some other information about bank accounts. You pretty much could write in anything or leave most things blank. They didn't bother to look at it and nothing ever came of it.
I've NEVER EVER had to fill out additional paperwork or add Social Media, bank account info, etc. Where in the world are you guys reporting to? Timbuktu? ?
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On 6/11/2018 at 2:52 PM, Shiver said:
I think (but not sure) that while you can have others do the 90 days for you, they do want to see your face once in a while, maybe every 3rd visit or something. There's probably a lot of latitude though, as I've been there with my wife several times and they know our faces as an item, and usually just about to pick up the form and they'll say there's no need, just take a seat, and we're out of there in a couple of minutes (Udon).
I have not shown my face to Lopburi Immigration for 90-day reporting since 2014. I don't know why all of you are finding the need to report. And, before that, my wife used to take my passport and do it and bring it back to me.
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On 1/9/2018 at 4:55 PM, Orton Rd said:
This would mean almost no English 'teachers' would get work permits
My understanding is teachers go under a separate rule just as when a farang applies for a work permit, you get the 1-month temporary Visa first until it is approved by Central Bkk Immigration, then you must wait for about 30-days to get your 1-year final extension (which is really only 11 months, since they took 30 days from you). However, teacher visas are approved on the spot and no waiting.
I remember a few years ago, I was a good friend of the then Chief of Lopburi Labor Dept. She gave me a 2-year and later a 3-year stamp for my WP, but it was useless since Immigration would not give me more than a 1-year visa. Thai government offices rarely coordinate on rules and procedures, especially based upon my consulting within the Thai government.
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Quite true. I have never heard of an agent stealing passports. Although, I don't doubt some are stolen by dodgy street office agents. And, 50,000 baht seems rather cheap for a first world passport. A few years ago, a mafia friend offered me 300,000 baht for my newly renewed US Passport if I just went and reported it lost and gave it to him to work with. I am sure he was kidding with me, since I would never consider such an offer.
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1 hour ago, jmacken306 said:
My wife just grabs my passport, sometimes takes a bike taxi (weather permitting), walks in, drops it in a basket about 15 mins she is back on the road off to her work right after that about 9-9:30.
Why do you guys have to have someone appear in person? My 90-day reporting slip is emailed and postal mailed to me every 90 days ... the only time I sent my wife was when I was too busy to go in person to get a Re-Entry Permit. My wife drove all of 5 mins to the local office and it was done in 5 mins and she was back at our house within 30-45 mins, I think she said.
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14 hours ago, Big Guns said:
Its better to hsve the blue Thai National ID card like I have. You have to get Thai citizenship first though.
Depends upon who you know. TIT.
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2 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:
Last week I went for my 3 month Cardiology checkup. My bill is paid by the Government. I was told that I now need the Pink ID Card or will have to pay full rate next time.
My bill is B22,000 and I pay B280. Guess I need to get the card.
Doesn't make any sense to me and certainly NOT my experience. Due to a near-fatal Ninja Z-14R crash through a rebarred concrete wall 5-years ago that put me in an almost month-long coma and 14-16 surgeries after that so that I could gradually relearn to walk again from 2013-2016, I have to go to Ramathibodi Hospital every 2 months to see 3 different specialists and I had some experimental surgery and therapy done to my broken and dislocated right shoulder left without any soft tissue, and my Ortho doc at Kasemard (which is my SS Hospital of record) referred me to his professor surgeon at Rama when he told me he could not fix my left leg shattered tibia so that I would walk normally. From that ONE doctor at Rama, he referred me to the other specialists in other departments, etc. All bills get sent to Kasemrad, although I do see the totals of what it would have cost me. I pay nothing for my meds/prescriptions but would run me 100,000 - 175,000 baht/2 months if I paid privately and there is no private insurance plan here or even worse, my home country (US) that would cover those prescriptions + doctor's fees. Upon receiving an appointment slip from Rama, I scan it and send it to Kasemard Transfer Dept., and they advise Rama (or whatever hospital I need to be referred to) that Thai Social Security is footing the bill. I only need to show my passport as ID at a hospital I am referred to. At Kasemrad, I show them my Thai SS Card. Was just there on Thursday with an ear infection from an injury. Gave me Augmentin, Antihistamines, Pseudoephedrine, and antibiotic ear drops. I paid nothing at the pharmacy or anywhere in the hospital. Easily would have cost me $200 for the doctor and $150+ in the US. Simply outrageous what the Republicans have done to the US healthcare system over the years, and I used to be a Republican when I was in my 20's.
I had just been to Ramathibodi earlier in the morning for about a 30-minute visit with the doctor and what would have been 34,xxx baht of prescriptions. The meds are new and my guess is they would cost around $2,500 if I paid for 1-months worth plus 2 refills, which is what this doctor gave to me. Again, I paid nothing for the visitor or the meds. All billed to Kasemrad.
Just the other day, I received a statement from Social Security in Thailand telling me how much I could collect if I decided to stop paying 650 baht/month into the private fund of Thailand SSA and although I could no longer benefit from the National Healthcare, I could basically get back all the taxes I have paid since I have been paying taxes in Thailand. It was a decent chunk of money/baht.
My wife was the one who asked around about me keeping my NSA benefits when I changed my visa from Non-B to Non-O Retirement and was given good and easy to follow information about how to transfer over to the private fund but obtain benefits from the national fund.
My wife was a godsend gift to me. Came from a super poor family of farmers and has stories of doing homework by candlelight, since her village had no electricity in Lopburi. Her parents taught the 3 children to work hard, while still in school have jobs to pay for university and they all have undergraduate and Master's Degrees. The parents are hard workers and now have the biggest and nicest house in that Amphur of Lopburi and all 3 kids are successful. My wife owns 4 companies in Thailand, most of them working with Japanese companies (where my expertise comes in, I guess) and DOES NOT send money to her parents, etc. Doesn't care about fancy clothes and useless gold/diamond jewelry, etc. We moved from Bkk to Lopburi to have a more relaxed lifestyle but we can still run our companies and I work for a few Charity Foundations pro bono here, and we built a custom house on 2 rai of beautiful land facing the mountains, and love our 2 dogs.
Life in Thailand can be quite good if you do it right. ?
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3 minutes ago, Formaleins said:
Come up to the HELL called Promenada here in Chiang Mai, where they love to make life as difficult as possible.
1: Wait in the queue for maybe 30 minutes with your passport, copy of your bio page, copy of your extension page, copy of your arrival card, copy of your last 90 day report along with original. After waiting in line be greeted by an overweight bulldog chewing a wasp who now insists that she wants a copy of your original 1st ever entry extension that was transferred to your passport 3 passports ago.
Exit queue and locate copier room, wait another 10 minutes for your copy.
Back in line to the queue which has now grown in length to a 40 minute wait.
Present new photocopy to wasp chewing bulldog. Get your queue number. wait another 30 minutes or more if you are unlucky, to get called.
Sit down and wait until they can be bothered to process your report - if you watch closely you can chuckle with laughter as you see them slip your passport under everyone elses, so you are last in the queue.
Take your blood pressure medication sit tight and learn to grin and bare it! Chiang Mai Immigration, second to none in Thailand for the worst ever customer experience, and proud of their reputation. Make note AGAIN to self! DO NOT FORGET THE DATE - MAKE YOUR APPLICATION BY POST!!!!! You never ever need to look at them again! EMS, the best 40 Baht you can spend.
I feel for ya. That sounds like a real hellhole of a raw deal.
I'm so lucky with Lopburi Amphur Muang staff. I fill out the visa renewal form of 1-page, 2-sides. I always write the complete date or my full name in the first blank by mistake and forget there are 2 more blanks for my info, so I cross it out and just fill in the other 2 blanks ... it looks messy. Try that with ANY FORM in the US Immigration system and you will be wasting a day of your time redoing a new form. They don't make me wait in the queue and actually stop for a second despite other applicants sitting in front of them and say, "Sawadee Ka, Dr ........", say hello to my wife, etc., and take the form from my hand if it is filled out and someone begins processing it from the time they ask me for documents and my passport. I really do not even have enough time to drink down 1 glass of iced coffee from the outside vendor before they take my picture with the webcam and hand me my passport with envelopes and postage and send me on my way .... a few years ago, when they had a "tomboy" sargeant who loved to give me a hard time about nonsense when I was using my business visa it was annoying, but I knew the Captain of the Office, so a complaint from me to her eventually had the sargeant removed from her Lopburi post. She asked my wife for a bribe one time and I anticipated it and had my cell phone recording it nonchalantly if I needed it. Real A-hole of a government officer.
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On 8/16/2017 at 10:56 PM, sanemax said:
Anyone knows what would happen if you got caught on a few days overstay ?
Nothing except a 500 baht/day fine, as long as you have discussed this with your local Immigration office and they said "no problem". I just did it with Lopburi for 3 days and they were happy for the bonus money :).
I signed documents that I made a miscalculation regarding money timeframe in the bank, etc., and it was recorded but no record of infraction to Bkk.
My first Extension of Stay using the Monthly Income from Abroad method
in Thai Visas, Residency, and Work Permits
Posted
I don't get Insurance form requirement. Are you an OA Retirement Visa holder? I still find my Thai SSF insurance card covers nearly 100% of my medical expenses and Thailand and have almost zero out of pocket expenses. I pay into the Private Fund after I stopped working.