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Hmm well the DTA exists to expressly stipulate that it is not an "and" taxation situation. The DTA is clear that the US will collect taxes on Articles 6, 20 and 21 etc. That means Thailand does _not_ get to tax that. It's expressly exempt from taxation claims from Thailand. Can I ask, Where do you get your information on how all the worksheet stuff this is handled? I'm not familiar at all. How would you do a "worksheet" regarding tax "credits" on income that is expressly exempt per the DTA? I don't see how, unless the US declares that they no longer want that part of my taxes paid to them. I don't see that happening. So the US is prime because the real property is in situ in the US... where I pay all my income tax... per the DTA. I just can't read the DTA that way. How do you get there? For Thailand to unilaterally imply secondary taxation claims after IRS tax returns are provided as evidence that tax was already paid to the US would involve the Dept. of State and Treasury. Where are the governments representing citizens subject protected from double taxation via DTA's? Anyway, We will leave Thailand Dec 2024 because proving to a RD Official, beyond just showing that I paid tax on my pensions and rental income using my IRS tax return, will make immigration look like a well-oiled machine. Except that the RD has serious penalties and immigration is cheap.

Thanks for the reply Jim! I saw that and did not forget it. I saw that the US has in situ prime position to collect that rental income from its citizen and did not expressly hand that off to Thailand. The US IRS has not sent me a notice saying they no longer want that portion of my tax payment. The US IRS has not said they want Thailand to be in prime position. The IRS did not state anywhere that I can find that the US surrenders their existing and established prime position to continue collecting that rental income tax. The IRS has not sent me a notice that they give up their right to collect that portion of my tax so it remains the in situ Contracting State collecting the tax from its citizen living in Thailand (the Other Contracting State). There is no tax to "credit" in Thailand because it is exempt due to being paid to the US IRS and subject to the DTA. It is expressly exempt until the US tells somebody it doesn't want that part of my tax responsibility anymore. I didn't forget it, just saw that the word "may" had no force - yet! * Edit to Article 6 quote mine, sorry to put it in that quote box...

American pensioners, see the US-Thai Double Taxation Agreement; ARTICLE 20 Pensions and Social Security Payments 1. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. 2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State. 3. Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered). For government pensions, see; Americans with government pensions/annuities, see: ARTICLE 21 Government Service a) Remuneration, other than a pension, paid by a Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State. b) However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the individual is a resident of that State who: i) is a national of that State; or ii) did not become a resident of that State solely for the purpose of rendering the services. a) Any pension paid by, or out of funds created by, a Contracting State or political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State. b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that other State. American expats with rental property income, see: ARTICLE 6 Income from Immovable (Real) Property 1. Income derived by a resident of a Contracting State from immovable (real) property (including income from agriculture or forestry) situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State. **So... I (living in the contracting state of Thailand) have a US rental house (in the _other_ contracting state, the US) may be taxed in the _other_ contracting state (the US). Correct? US Treasury Dept. clarification titled, "DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY TECHNICAL EXPLANATION OF THE CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME SIGNED AT BANGKOK ON NOVEMBER 26, 1996" American expats with rental income, see Dept. of Treasury clarification; Article 6 (Income from Immovable (Real) Property) This Article deals with the taxation of income from immovable, or real, property. The two terms should be understood to have the same meaning. Paragraph 1 The first paragraph of Article 6 states the general rule that income of a resident of a Contracting State derived from real property situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in the Contracting State in which the property is situated. **So... my rental house in the US is taxed only in the US, not Thailand. This is from Dept. of Treasury, please copy/paste the title above in a search engine. No link, sorry.

I just left a meeting and 3 guys with over 40 years sober are atheists. I'm not, but hats off to them. It's rare but I guess that's why even the 12 steps are 'suggested' as a program of recovery in How It Works pg 59. Take care!

I understand that. Are you including the "Higher Power" people in that? For me, only me, I'm never threatened by what someone believes or doesn't believe. It's the same issue as pushing a specific religion into AA though when it goes that far. So it doesn't bother me at all... it's outside my hula hoop. Personal recover depends on AA unity - and nothing will ruin unity faster than fighting between religions, or the non-religious. Spiritual in the rooms and the word God is used for that concept by me and countless others. Faith and Religion is for outside the rooms, for those who want it. Lets maintain that and hold onto the unity we inherited.

UPDATE: just a heads-up for those interested. AIA Insurance declined to pay for an expensive procedure despite their documents specifically covering this (English and Thai). 400,000B plus whatever they try to add on later ofc. Glad I went Medicare Plan B for $174.70/mo as a placeholder and for an emergency. I haven't dropped by AIA to read their policy to them yet because the medications seem to be working well. And the proposed treatment carries significant risk so I need to research it first.

We're heading down today. Last year was uplifting to the point of exhilarating. +another day!

My experience with Vyke; the places I do business with won't send an OTP/2FA to a voip number. I was only able to call one bank on their 1-800 toll free line with it.

Grats! I tried to follow the advice given but can't. I tried to register on the website AND on my iPhone, even allowing face ID after downloading the phone app. Face ID required confirmation on my number on initial use though but it's a Thai iPhone and not accepted. And of course They need the QR sent to the phone you'll use, my Thai iPhone. On their website there's no 'register' html or tab. Their chatbot didn't understand 'create account' or 'register'. Also, trying to buy the plan I didn't see an option to add roaming before checkout, so I bailed. LOL now Mint Mobile has blocked me, too many attempts I guess?

In the US - I saw many religious people try to stick the camel's nose under the tent and make AA a religious organization, instead of a spiritual fellowship. That was in the 90's and again in the early 2000's. I see it happening again in the past couple of years. I suspect it's due to the social and political passions of the times in America. It wasn't long before I figured we'd be smelling camel butt if we didn't remind those folks that this is a spiritual fellowship. 1) It would cause severe disunity. There would be conflict between religions, obviously. Even if everyone agreed to allow Christian doctrine only, we just have to look at Northern Ireland to see what might happen. 2) Religion has never kept drunks sober. Despite all the kind hearted effort and selfless sacrifice on the part of the good people of religion... it just didn't work. To quote a paragraph from the Big Book pg 88, "It works- it really does". And if it works, don't fix it. It's a miracle a couple of white Christian drunks, only sober a few years, allowed for this openness of belief. But that's just my opinion.

Yep! That's the calculus that caused me to post the question. I have a house and adult daughter in the US so could feasibly go back. I've had direct experience with a serious medical issue popping up and the option/peace of mind is worth the $2,096.40/yr for Plan B. I save more than that living cheaper here, even with my AIA inpatient insurance policy. I'm a saver by nature and your dollar-cost averaging is doable, I just went the safe route given my situation and took Plan B too. This way, if fortunes change or the unforeseen happens, it's more affordable to have the option up and running -and usable with any doctor in America that takes Medicare.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment Prubangboy. We had genetic testing in the US by Color Genomics, $398 for both of us 2 years ago . From what I've researched genomic testing may catch 12-17% of cancer risks. There could be better data but still, 12% is well worth it. My wife had zero genomic risk and extremely low lifetime environmental risk but has breast cancer. I still own a house in the US and my daughter is doing well with a mother-in-law space if necessary. So I could reasonably return. The medical system in the US is broken, I agree and have many experiences to confirm that. Returning with a terminal condition: Japan Airlines cancelled our ticket when I asked for a wheelchair for my wife and gave 'cancer' as the reason. But then a buddy accompanied a friend with cancer back in lieu of a nurse on a different airline. So, I'd pay for the urgent treatment and travel back for ongoing care, like dialysis for example.

Thanks as always Sheryl. I took the same route for the same reasons - things change drastically. $2,096.40/yr for Plan B is affordable even with my AIA inpatient insurance here because the cost of living is lower here. With my US situation the return on investment, usability, probability -it makes the possible waste of money a good risk management expense. That's what insurance is in the end. The bolded section of your quote has me wondering if there's a way to use Medicare here, or did you travel back on a visit?

I'm turning 65 next year and have lived here with my Thai wife for 1.5 years. We don't have plans to return to the US but things can change, especially with age. I'm thinking of getting Medicare Premium-free Plan A, keeping my AIA big ticket expense medical insurance, and pay out of pocket for routine care. Can people chime in with their experience please? What are US expats doing for medical over 65?

We used Color Genomics in the US, now called Color Health. Mailing the saliva sample internationally would probably require contacting them. It was $398 for 2 people in late 2021. Color Health

Worth emphasizing that AA is not a religious program. As for the "higher power" concept and agnostics, atheists, or anyone like I was; I like the idea of going to the mirror and making it anything you don't see looking back. Make that decision and proceed to Step 4. Easy does it but do it.

We went there, to Key Visa outside Big C South Pattaya. There was one Thai female there who was the single-most rude Thai person I've dealt with in over 30 years. She never once allowed me to finish a single sentence. She told me I could not get an extension of stay on my Non-O marriage visa in Chonburi. She said we'd have to go back to Surat Thani. She then offered to change it to a retirement visa. Knowing that to be false, I just said, "Thank you" at that point and urged my wife to please stop asking the woman further questions. We ended up doing it ourselves despite it being very stressful for my wife. The immigration official at window 6 said only one word in English, "Wait". The remainder of the time she only would speak Thai and bullied my wife until my wife was shaking. With cancer, my wife doesn't need that. We'll know more soon when they call and tell us to use their app. It would have been worth it to pay an agent who is reasonable, honest, experienced, and professional.

We'll stop by, thank you. Perfect Thaivisa reply from the good old days! Red sign IIRC.

My wife has cancer so we're going to spend the money on an agent to deal with it - if that's alright with you.

The agency close to us deals with Russian clients. I'm not Russian, But thanks.

Thanks, yes well be driving a car.

Thank you for your useful reply.

The International Criminal Court should hear about this one. Outrageous!

Things change, so does anyone have current visa agent info or recommendations for 2023?

The staff told my Thai wife it's 30B each hour, no daily rate. There's no free parking anymore we were told by other parking staff.