[2-month seasoning of 800k Non-O: Account options?]

1 hour ago, Jackson B said:

What I'd like to know is whether I will have issues with the IO if I move this money to a separate account (obviously before the 2-month deadline). I can't see a legal reason why not, and others have pointed out this is possible. But has anyone experienced problems with this?

 

Also, the account I am thinking of using does not have a physical passbook, but a digital passbook, and a statement can be generated. Money can be withdrawn on-demand. Has anyone used this kind of account without a passbook? 

I read a report where an IO used the "no passbook" case to try to force the applicant to an agent, by refusing the application for 1900 Baht.

 

Just keep in mind, their game is to get you on something that they can use as an excuse to force you to an agent, so they collect a big bonus.  Act accordingly. 

 

And yes, very silly not to allow, or even encourage, investment types of accounts that fund business activity here - but ...

[Amnesty 80% likely to be extended - Immigration Officer Phuket Today]

2 hours ago, checkered flag said:

The price for agent assisted visa has recently doubled or more.

Not for all types / locations, evidently.  Increases likely apply for those who need a "change of visa" to a 90-day stamp, as that normally requires 15 days left on one's permitted-stay.  

See here for a recent report in Jomtien for retirement for the usual 15K baht:

 

[Renewing expired Thailand Elite membership]

52 minutes ago, Jon1 said:

Well the permission to stay is valid unlike they say and when they sold the visa in the beginning even Thailand Elite themselves told that you can get a one year permission to stay stamp near the visa expiration. So I don't know how is this any "weaseling" from the people who bought the membership with certain conditions in the beginning and then 5 years later TE changed their interpretation?

I remember the early sales-pitch with the "extra year" as well. 

They are the ones doing the "weaseling" - and not surprising, given they are taking that money out of the Thai economy, in exchange for "letting you" stay here to spend money in Thailand.  What a (explitive) system - not surprised at all they would play their game this way. 

[Who's Holding Out For A 22-Sept Announcment?]

52 minutes ago, khhainuui said:

Non imm b 90days. Have apartment, soon married (waiting documents from "home") im not wishing any amnesty, just let us do visas for f sake...

So, you are on an auto-extended non-b entry now. Do you have the company docs / requirements to extend it?  Maybe discussed with you prior - small company, etc? - sad, if so.  We don't have access to the MFA for corruption-free options, currently.

But if you do manage to get married before the other options end (embassy-letter, if you can get one), that opens up more options going forward.

[Who's Holding Out For A 22-Sept Announcment?]

I threw away an extension (60-days / Thai family) by not waiting last time.  I won't make that mistake again, but have my embassy-letter ready to go, if no other option appears.  Some talk I might be able to get another 60-day, since the last one was for nothing.

 

Everyone should have a "Plan B" ready to go.  Mine was Turkey, until the embassy-letter option appeared.  This is still on the table if that and/or other options are not available in the future - though hoping another SE-Asian country allows us in before the Thai options end.

[Who is using an agent to get a visa extension next week if amnesty is not extended ?]

35 minutes ago, 473geo said:

One of the aspects of Thailand I find quite refreshing there is usually a mutually beneficial solution available

But the flipside is, when you meet the official requirements, and they block you because they want a result that is only beneficial to them, and should not be necessary (15x to 25x the 'official fee') for you.

[Offices that grant 30 days extention on TV/VOA/Exempt]

13 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Even if you had filed for an extension previously, but would have fallen under the umbrella of visa amnesty (original visa expiry after 26 March), that extension was ignored because it turned out not to be necessary, obviated by the amnesty. You're just out the 1900 baht you paid for it.  Many people who would have qualified under the amnesty, but who didn't know it was coming, had applied for an extension. Theoretically that should have been their 'one use', but with the amnesty covering them, that extension was overlooked.

This is EXCELLENT news.  Will do another 60-day extension, then, and save my embassy-letter until later. 

 

And, yes, I don't expect a "refund" of the wasted 1900 Baht for the useless extension (due to the auto-extension - it was not an "amnesty") - funny to even imagine a refund, or 'credit' towards the next extension, from Immigration.

[Offices that grant 30 days extention on TV/VOA/Exempt]

19 hours ago, tabbycat said:

Will probably make the trip up to Chiang Mai to extend my TR.60.

Has anyone been asked for TM30 there when extending?

 

If so, guess it'll be necessary to check in to a hotel the night before, as I don't think TM30 is something that can be paid off to an agent to 'handle' for you..

Agent-Service includes "no home visit" (where otherwise applicable), "no money seasoning" (agent's 'flash-cash' for a few minutes ok, which eliminates income-based hurdles), no "unobtainium landlord-docs," no TM30 fines, etc. 

 

The purpose of all those hurdles is only to 'encourage' agent-use.

But if you are going in person - yes, be sure and get a copy of the hotel's TM-30 submission, in case Immigration ask for it. 

[Is anyone hearing anything?]

5 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

I guess you didn't qualify then...

I've been denied for not using an agent several times, to spite having the income (much more), living with my Thai wife, etc - qualifying by the published rules - just not the "made up" rules used to block legit-extensions.

[Is anyone hearing anything?]

 

4 hours ago, tonray said:

It's not being tribal at all. Time and time again, foreigners who could not pay their way or otherwise attempted to circumvent the system have brought stricter regulations and requirements upon all of us. Extra insurance, have to keep 800k for 3 months after and 400k all year, etc etc. Bad apples ruining it for everyone

None of that is the case.  Time and time again, when Immigration wanted to Increase their Agent Laundered Payoff revenues, they changed the regulations.  Then, they blamed foreigners for their corruption, to spite a lack of evidence we "did" any of the things they claimed.

Only the "not too bright" would not have noticed that none of their "more strict measures" affected Agent-Partner activity - that the 800K seasoning - or having any savings at all - are BYPASSED for agent-apps, just as they were before the "new regulations." 

 

And Insurance?  Yes, a few K-Baht extra to the agent - more of the same - or can buy "qualifying" insurance ONLY from their partner-insurance salesmen - vs a quality policy which could actually save your backside if you were seriously hurt/ill.  400K isn't enough in-patient coverage, and the out-patient is not needed.

[Is anyone hearing anything?]

 

4 hours ago, rimpsstar said:

Many Thais view this current situation as "The foreigners were told at the start of the amnesty that they have until 26th September to leave the country, which is plenty of time for them to make arrangements". The Government and immigration then (in their minds at least) did whatever they could to make sure those remained knew they had to get onto an appropriate Visa. 

Meanwhile, all land-borders are still closed, as well as the other nations in the area, where most of us go when not in Thailand (Vietnam, The PI, Indonesia) - many no longer spending as much time/money in Thailand as before, due to Immigration policy changes.

 

As well, Immigration is still playing the agent-money game - blocking applications for those w/ Thai family on made-up or bent-rules, and refuses to change permitted-stays to Non-B in-country, etc.  All "problems" vanish for an extortion-payment.

 

So, given the situation has not changed in all this time, what "arrangements" were we supposed to make?  Go to our passport-countries, where we have not lived in decades?  Leave our Thai families until some unforseen future date?

 

I "believed" immigration before, so WASTED my 60-day extension.  In hindsight, I should have put off action, not planned ahead, and waited for the auto-extension.  I'd still have that 60-day to use now, if I had been a "bad guy" who didn't plan ahead.  I got an embassy-letter, so at least have until Oct 26 - but many cannot get these.

 

Quote

Many foreigners, however, seem to have interpreted the amnesty as "We can stay until 26th September, and then we have to leave OR we get extended again". I think this is why to many foreigners it seems like madness to expect everyone to now leave, but from the perspective of Thais, they cannot understand how 4-5months has not been enough to do this, or at least get one of the Visas. 

Are the Thais you refer to not aware that Immigration is hideously corrupt?   They, of all people, should know better.  Over 50K to "buy" the Non-B we need, or 35K+ for a Non-O to stay and support our Thai families, to spite having the proven income? 

 

We had no problem with access to the honest MFA for Visas - only immigration + closed-borders creates this situation.  The only window-open, other than a huge extortion-payment, is the embassy-letter.

 

17 hours ago, tonray said:

Perhaps they should have been thinking about saving some cash for an extension

Yes, stop spending money supporting your family at a decent standard-of-living.  Need to save-up to pay the IOs a fat-enveolope through an agent, instead.

[Is anyone hearing anything?]

18 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

who has? immigration? but they are not the ones who decide

 

has the cabinet in the last few weeks "made it clear there will no no further amnesty extension"? I don't think they have?

Radio Silence. 

 

But let's clear up something - there Was No "Amenesty" - there was an Automatic-Extension of foreigners's then-current extensions by the cabinet. 

 

Then, after immigration said "time to clear out" (to maximize agent-fees) - a further extension of the extension was made until Sept 26.

 

18 hours ago, STD Warehouse said:

I cant see how they cannot extend it further, its going to be total chaos if they don't, regardless of what the common consensus is, these guys in the cabinet are actually fairly smart people, unless somehow they just don't discuss the issue on Tuesday, if they do discuss the issue, they will come to the conclusion that the amnesty needs to be extended, and it will be extended.

I don't think they will extend the auto-extension, again.  The planned workaround was everyone would get letters from their embassy, and be allowed 30-day "covid" extensions.  So we are back in the "immigration-system" - but not booted out.

 

The problem is that some embassies are being little (explitives) about it - playing "not my problem!" / "why should I?" games, and asking their citizens to plea with "reasons."  

 

Clearly, Thai Immigration (instructed by the Cabinet) simply wants what the USA is providing - a reference to the "ongoing covid situation" letter, to create "diplomatic cover" for our staying.  It's a fig-leaf, after years of being (explitives) about "how long" foreigners were here (spending our foreign-sourced money into their economy), the last few years. 

 

But even w/o another auto-extension, there might be a "grace period" w/o fines - maybe even apply for 30-days once w/o an embassy-letter, given some embassies are not cooperating.  Still, at this point, Thai Immigration can put the blame for folks being "stuck" squarely on their own embassies.  Thailand provided a way out.

[60 day family at Chiang Mai very easy today.]

19 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

What a bummer that CM does not accept the transfers you made, because there are IOs that do honor the 'average of 40K monthly" as the regulations prescribe. 

I have not heard of this in practice - though it is what the rules say.  Which offices accept "average" income?  Maybe only if also have an embassy-letter, and even then only at select offices?

 

18 hours ago, Yorkshire Tea said:

Luckily, this wasn't my only route to getting an extension, but annoyed at having to shift 400,000 over now at poor exchange rates.  Forever hopeful of Thai baht weakening ????

 

Another Brit, trying to use the income method was also rejected for not having the proof of source, & his income was well over 40,000 per month, every month.

Rental incomes, foreign-business income, investment-account income, etc May Be Rejected as "invalid" income - to spite Proven Foreign Transfers in excess of the minimum.

 

This, in combination with their acceptance of faked-money agent-applications, proves they do not care if you "really have the income" - they only care if they can block you getting the extension w/o an agent-envelope, to line their pockets.

[Corruption]

4 hours ago, MyTHaiMyKe said:

The lady immigration officer in room 8 Pattaya immigration is the worst! She writes 16,000 on a piece of paper and slides it across her desk! I

Up from 15K, and not saying to visit the agent next door any more.  For a while, she stopped taking cash directly - getting brazen, again.

[Thailand let 180.000.000.000 baht fly away ?]

9 hours ago, FlyingThai said:

Philippines and Cambodia have an absolutely horrible infrastructure starting with the most basic things such as internet. I could never live in these countries.

Internet was better in Cambodia than here, when I first came to the region.  Thailand has caught up, but no problem getting good internet there.  PI, it's been awhile - but had good fiber fairly recently.
 

Quote

A lot if not the majority of the Thai landlords don't even declare their rental income so why would the government care?

They get income and spend the money you pay them, for starters.  Much better than foreclosures - and many do pay tax.

 

Quote

In this country one hand shakes the other and the regular people are in many cases just as corrupt and two faced as the government agencies are.

The Thais I know are decent folks and hate the corruption they must also endure at many govt-agencies with which they must interact.

 

That's why I push back against the "they want us gone" bit - they just want their back-handers, and resent our thinking there is something "bad" about extorting it from us - while Thais are subjected to similar.

[Corruption]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

Yes, I wish an immigration officer would slide me a note for 16,000 and get me a volunteer visa.

No - would bet the district-level sign-off alone costs that, plus the money to the charity/org, plus the rest of immigration.

 

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

I mean, the agents must be taking 15,000 from a 55,000 baht 15 month volunteer visa and the rest of it gets kicked up to the top of the immigration hierarchy. Finding a "helpful" immigration officer would save a lot of money!

In cases I have heard reported here, the agent-cost and direct-offer from immigraton were about the same.

[EU/Denmark embassy letter - anyone managed to get despite them officially refusing?]

On 9/16/2020 at 11:39 AM, worldfun said:

Yes so we are talking of special cases just like UK embassy issuing but unlike USA which smartly issue the generic blanket letter as Thai immigration wants ????

So thus I assume nobody with EU passport have any special case of needing to extend Thailand stays at this stage. Interesting ????

Well, at least you EUers can go to Greece or Spain easily and stay.  We Americans have Turkey (90-days), Latin America (far), etc.  

But if you have family here, as many of us do, I understand - this is maddening, even given 30-days at a time w/letter - hard to make plans.

 

5 hours ago, khhainuui said:

So still no: non imm b visas granted in Thailand.

Well, not without 50K+ through a "law firm" in Bangkok - not sure elsewhere.

[Amnesty will Happen]

6 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

13 minutes ago, worldfun said:

... with a surprise amnesty on next tuesday having extremely bad odds as there's really no time to have it gazetted b4 amnesty already expires!

period.

I don't think there will be an amnesty buy my original post was virtually just saying nothing is certain. 

Agreed.  I would not bet on it either, but time to "gazette" it or not, is not the issue.

[Multi-O to ? How successful is your situation?]

8 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

I guess they are. I guess most are.

But that doesn't answer the questions.

How to know that the extension stamp isn't fake?

 

If you go to the office and get your picture taken, it is a good sign.  Agent-extensions take about 30-seconds.  I know there are also the "got it up-country" cases, but ...
 

8 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

And what will happen to you when you go to report if immigration find that the extension stamp is fake? Are you arrested and placed in the IDC until you can pay (and find!) a flight home? In the current climate you could be locked up in the IDC for months.

 

These are honest questions, not a dig at anybody. 

 

What are the answers? 

There is no history of this happening, other than one isolated case, that I have seen, where a few folks may have had issues.   Fake stamps WERE associated with "travel free border-runs" some years back - but that was completely different.

 

Do you recall the agent in the infamous recent story getting "busted with fake stamps"?  The cops published the picture of her, with the "fake-stamp" collection.  She had leverage, evidently, because the whole thing was dropped.  Evidently those with "her stamps" were/are being entered into the immigration DB. 

 

Maybe having agents come in with 50 passports, and go into the back-room was a bit too obvious, so are doing the "stamping" bit remotely, now?   I have no idea - but we saw the pics, and then the case was dropped. 

 

In any case, the Agent-System is the Center of Immigration, with the "list price" service around the edges, serving as a cover for the Primary Business.

[Thailand let 180.000.000.000 baht fly away ?]

5 hours ago, checkered flag said:

 I thought agent assisted visas were <30K baht. How then can the TI chief be getting $1000 US /visa. You have zero credibility. You're just making things up from you bar stool.

BTW I don't know the true cost because I do things myself, I only read thing about agents on TVF.

Depends on the visa-type.  If you aren't retired, you may need a district-level sign-off - and that guy wants 10K+ Baht per-signature - whether to "overlook" the faked money - or even more for Non-B cases of "Have to go out for a new visa" (no such law).

 

It also depends what office - CW-Bangkok can be 10K more expensive per-type than Jomtien, for instance.

[Nationality decides your fate!]

25 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

The letter is intended to validate that people are stranded due to closed borders and in need of the humanitarian based visa to remain in Thailand.

We need borders open to get new visas, and a way to return to Thailand with those visas w/o insane quantine measures, etc. 

 

Quote

There is a review of the request because enough people seek to exploit these measures that it can cause serious  problems.

Please describe the "serious problems" that arise when self-funded foreigners continue to spend money at cash-strapped covid-damaged Thai businesses.

 

25 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

SXome governments have  been obliged to undertake  the financial cost of rescuing their nationals who should not have been outside their home countries.

Not sure why they "should not have been outside their home-countries."  Maybe they didn't plan for an extended stay?  But great those broke folks can get a flight out - since no welfare for them here.  They must be going homeless, if broke.  That leaves only those here with Money To Spend to Help Thais.

 

25 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

And if you really wish to be a prat about this, the government is under no obligation to issue any letter in respect to your application for a foreign visa.  

"Obligation"?  No.  But it's clear Thailand just wants cover to avoid being the "bad guy" for booting foreigners out during covid, when all their land-borders are closed, and most other locations where most of us stay, alternatively, are also closed (Vietnam, The PI, etc)  

 

Saying, "We would have accepted your embassy's letter," gives them that excuse.  Sad that the UK is throwing their citizens under the bus over a silly letter-request. 

[Thailand let 180.000.000.000 baht fly away ?]

2 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

"There is a lot of other countries in tropic areas with low living costs like Thailand, who offers better retirement conditions."

 

Name them please, as most of the countries that you imply that offer better retirement conditions do NOT have long term retirement visas as an option.

The Philippines and Cambodia, just in the region.  More if you include all of Latin America and the Caribbean.

 

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

"they are buzy to kick a lot of middle spenders, covid free farrangs, out of the country, spenders which are sure income for Thailand"

What make you think that the so called "stranded" tourists have a lot of money to spend? I know of several in my neighborhood, and they don't spend much money. 

ASK their landlords, and the shop-owners where they spend their money, if they want that income gone.  Those foreigners have an income well over that of the average Thai - are supporting Thais by staying. 

 

This is why many other countries have FRIENDLY Immigration - "Welcome Back" being the response to frequent / longer-staying visitors from higher-wage nations. 

 

Contrast this to to frowning, throwing your passport back at you, and staring menacingly at some speck on the ceiling - fuming about, "Another one not paying me off through the envelope-system."
 

[Thailand let 180.000.000.000 baht fly away ?]

 

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

Anybody who is here on an 'O' or 'OA' visa could have got an extension, as long as they qualified.

If only that were true.  Maybe, unless they "changed the rules" right before you applied, as happened to me this year w/ Work Permit, multiples of the required income proven, living with my Thai wife for years.  Not Good Enough - LOADS of new papers needed. 

And then, to re-apply later with all the new paperwork they added - not acceptable if your business used the covid tax-holiday or closed the office to have everyone work remote to avoid catching covid (the rent-savings helped keep the business alive and my paycheck coming). 

 

This is not a new thing.  Immigration have added "new unpublished rules" to block my extensions at multiple offices around the country over years, including

• Unobtanium landlord docs though will be doing a home-visit to verify
• Proven income doesn't count if not a "state pension"
• Cannot use proven-income of any kind for a Non-O "change of visa" application even with MFA-stamped embassy-statement PLUS bank-letter proof

... etc.  Always a new made-up excuse to try to force agent-money - and furious when they see the Non-O-ME, which didn't pay them off.

[Corruption]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Go to your local IO and ask to see the Ministerial regulations Immigration follow internally.

It's a large thick book.

Somehow I don't think either of you will.

There is this thing called "The Internet" - easy to publish whatever documents for everyone to see. 
 

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's only by not following the procedures and submitting the correct documents you open yourself up to corruption options. 

Procedures we don't know about, because they are not published?  And also variable - change even between application-attempts at the same office with the same IO?  

That must be a very special book - it "self updates"  based on applicants finding out about and preparing for items in it (when they are reported here).

How many baht in coins will my IO have in his pocket tomorrow at 1 PM?  If you guess wrong - go to an agent.

[Corruption]

12 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It's Immigration policy 

VE or TV > Non O > Extension must be processed at the same IO.

The Non O has to be approved and the documents submitted for the Non O are the same as for the extension except for the seasoning of funds period.

It's a two step process to go from VE/TV to an annual extension.

 

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Ministerial regulations which we don't have access to. Ask in your IO.

 

As documented before on the forum, if you apply for the Non O as part of a 'conversion' from a VE/TV entry to an extension you must apply at the same IO as it's a two step process.

The same financial proof that is accepted and approved at regional level for the Non O, is also used for the annual extension application.

 

I have seen this reported here on the forum.  But it does seem to be yet another so-called "policy" which is not documented anywhere or based on any law/regulation, and which used strictly to generate agent-money. 

 

So, similar to the "must go out to a consulate for a 90-Day "Non-B Visa" unless your boss pays a law-firm or accountant to hand over an enveloope, at which point you don't have to go-out, after all. 
Similar is done for ED 90-days in-country. 
Also the same for those on Non-Imm entries changing extension-reasons (family-based to work, etc).

No reason not to publish it, if a rule applicants are expected to comply with - except we all know why these imaginary-rules exist - to manufacture the need for agent/lawyer/accountant envelopes.

 

Quote

Another example is an extension based on marriage, which is a two step process.

You apply at your local office and if accepted, they send it to the regional office for final approval and you receive a 30 day under consideration stamp. You cannot apply for the extension in one Province then move to another Province expecting the new IO to issue the stamp after approval in a different Province even if you submitted a new TM30 to officially change your address.

The case of "under consideration" is not the same.  Steps like home-visits may occur during that period.