NotYourBusiness
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17 minutes ago, simon43 said:
Diets DO work, but I hasten to differentiate between the 2 definitions of the world 'diet'.
For many, the word 'diet' means some sort of special, short-term food regime, aimed at rapidly taking the Kg off your body. After that short-term event, many people return to eating unhealthy and fattening foods, as well as not doing any exercise.
For me, the word 'diet' simply means following a healthy eating and exercise lifestyle EVERY DAY, not some short-term fad. If you want to lose weight and keep that weight off, forget about short-term dieting programs. You need a complete, long-term lifestyle change over to healthy food and regular exercise.
Don't suddenly cut out the unhealthy food. Take things very slowing and start to reduce the size of your food portions. Start to add some fruit and vegetables etc. It took me maybe 2+ years to slowly change from an unhealthy lifestyle to a relatively healthy one. When I started, I couldn't even jog 100 metres! Now I can jog 10,000 metres. I eat smaller portions of food and cut out all processed foods. As a scientist teacher, I understand that my body still does need some sugar and salt, as well as a range of foods that provide protein, carbs, good fats, vitamins and minerals. I can eat small meals without feeling hungry and my mind is clear and sharp - no brain fog.
So... forget about crash fad diets. This is a life-long change and it's your choice whether you want to go down that path. Good luck.
Hello Simon and thank you for your contribution. Congratulations and no one can argue with your success. You don't mention how many kilo's you lost, if any. And you don't mention what will happen when you are unable to do these exercises. And YES we can all agree that regular exercise is great for one's general health. Where we differ is everyone here is saying that the obesity epidemic is a diet and lack of exercise problem. I disagree strongly.
Lastly, what if, for every success like yours, and Fred, and Robblok, there are TWENTY failures, like mine, and millions of others. Because that is what the data shows. Would you still say that diets and exercise work?
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9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
Telling us look at the two pictures to see what they have in common does nothing. Yes, most people that start a diet program do fail, because it's never a diet that works in the long run, as all kinds of diets have come and gone over the years. It's still a lifestyle change that works, and always works. Why keep posting the same things, like you say we are doing? If you had a special plan that actually works, others would have it by now, unless you invented this plan and are keeping it secret, which is selfish as you know how many are failing at dieting. Tell us again where to find the answer because I must have missed it somehow. This is an excerpt from the link you provided.................So the first step towards permanent healthy weight loss is, somewhat ironically, to lose the diet and the diet mindset. Instead think about a Healthy Eating Plan (a HEP) that you could live with and enjoy for life. The best answer to dieting, then, is a lifelong program of everyday healthy, pleasurable eating coupled with regular exercise. To lose weight, eat less and exercise more. How boring! How prosaic! Yet how true..............................Lifestyle change
OK perhaps we are getting somewhere. So you are in agreement that diets and exercise don't work? BigStar? Robblock? ????
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39 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
For one thing, I am not closed minded, and look at what works before I make a judgement. It works for me and millions of others, so it has been proven to be true. If you "fixed" a chemical imbalance in your body, and millions of others are doing it like you say, please tell us how, because if you don't need the money, at least help others with your discovery. Otherwise it looks like you are looking for attention, and pulling our chains.
Hello Fred, please read my posts again. I never said millions of people are doing it. I said millions of people have this problem and are NOT doing it because they are too busy failing at diet and exercise and getting mentally crushed in the process. Please stop doing this to people thanks man. Diets and exercise don't work. Yes they work for fitness guru's. For the vast majority of humans, it doesn't work.
"The average American spends $1,860 annually on health and fitness, including gym memberships, reports GOBankingRates."
That is an amazing statistic and from where I am standing it is a TOTAL FAILURE. Please stop recommending a failed mantra thanks.
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9 hours ago, BigStar said:
Laughable. What's the real reason you don't wanna tell?
Because no one here is ready to listen and understand (well a few people are). You are too busy preaching failed mantra and thereby misleading everyone, with the best intentions. I don't mean you personally, I mean fitness pro's who lack understanding. And anyone who preaches diets and exercise lack understanding.
"1. As weight loss programs, diets don't work! Yes, you lose weight, but about 95% of people who lose weight by dieting will regain it in 1 to 5 years."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/changepower/201010/why-diets-dont-work-and-what-does
Nine five percent%!! Furthermore, regain the weight and EVEN MORE!! The end condition is WORSE than the start. After a few tries, overweight people are mentally crushed, resigned to their fate. No thank you. Please stop telling people diets and exercise work. Science proves it doesn't.
What I am doing works, without any special foods, and no exercise, and it is EASY! And I have already told you where to find the answer.
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2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:
That's not a fictional thing. Most people do eat more then they need. You would be surprised how little food we need to get by, and healthy. Exercise, although it doesn't burn many calories per hour with the exception of downhill skiing, jumping rope, kickboxing, running and cycling, requires a little more food but not that much. It isn't in the water. It's a lack of willpower because food tastes so good, and some can't resist eating more then they need. Again, as someone said, if you go back just 100 years. most people weren't fat, mainly because food wasn't processed with added sugars and fats. People ate what they grew, and raised, and usually worked harder. Today, and more each year, technology is making humans lazier, and the ones that don't set out to exercise frequently, won't be building muscle (which burns fat), and will have to eat less because many jobs like sitting at a desk don't burn many calories per hour, and unless you're on your feet for a lot of the time, your body will not need much food every day. Eating food adds up. You don't get fat overnight, and you can't burn it off in a day either. If your body needs 1500 calories a day, taking into consideration resting and moving but no exercise, and you eat that and drink a soda extra every day, that's over 70,000 calories of pure sugar added to your body every year. When you eat carbohydrates, your body has to burn them first before it burns stored fat. Think of how much stored fat you're getting from that 1 extra soda a day. If you ate 1500 calories a day and exercised 1 hour 3x a week cycling, usually burning an average of 500 calories an hour, that's 1500 extra calories you would burn a week, 7800 a year. You could lose 2 pounds of fat a year just from that exercise alone. That may not seem like a lot, but that's fat kept off because your lifestyle includes not eating more than you need, plus you added exercise to burn more. If there was a country where something was in the water that made people eat more, some would know this and adjust their caloric intake, because some would have the will power and the desire to be lean. The will power that keeps you on track, that puts you back on track when you slip, as everyone does at times. If everyone was fat because of something in the water, they might move to the other countries where they see lean people, knowing it has to be something where they are living. The USA has up to 65% obese people, while Thailand has no more than 22% obese. Most anyone could recognize that it's because of two things. More hard working farmers and a leaner diet (on average) than the US has. People here get fat because they get "Americanized". They drink sugar sodas, and eat processed food. If all countries had something in the water, everyone would be fat so no one would know the difference. It seems like you are referring to Cushings syndrome or hypothyroidism like I mentioned earlier. Unless you had a live in roommate that was adding something to your water for years and you finally discovered the truth, threw them out, and now are losing weight because you eliminated the problem.
Ok man thanks, but you haven't told me anything new that I haven't heard before 100x, in particular from my body building friends. It makes a great story, but just because a million people say it, that doesn't make it true. And in fact, it's counterproductive because I spent a large part of my life following exactly this faulty advice and never addressing the root cause.
I have tried what you have said countless times before, and it has NEVER worked, ever. It's too difficult over long periods to maintain for anyone except fitness buffs. But now I am doing something easy and it works! And I feel that you are sincerely trying to help others, but you are doing a grave dis-service by ignoring all the evidence that "eat less, exercise more" is a failed mantra, while simultaneously closing your mind to the possibility that a chemical imbalance is causing millions of people to be hungry all the time and gain weight easily. Because if that is true, you can exercise all you want but as soon as you stop, the weight comes back on and even more than before, which matches the evidence we see when we look out into the world. Since you are not open to the possibility, I am wasting my time telling you. You need to find it for yourself, but you won't because you are fit. And you lead people down a dead end road. I know for myself that what you have said sounds good but HAS NOT WORKED FOR ME EVER. And millions of other people as well.
To answer the OP, I think that certainly there ARE people who don't care about their weight. But I think the number is low, perhaps 10%. The rest would change it in an INSTANT if they could, but they can't with your advice, it doesn't work. When I say it doesn't work, what I mean is it works a little bit with huge expenditure of energy while they are doing it, but it is TOO DIFFICULT to maintain for long periods. So the end result is FAIL. There IS another way that works.
Once again, I fixed the chemical imbalance in my body and the weight is MELTING off, no exercise needed. I believe this is true of millions of people. But you are too closed minded to even consider the possibility. My problem, and millions of other people's problem, is definitely NOT A LACK OF EXERCISE PROBLEM. The proof is in the scale numbers. And I believe there are MILLIONS of people just like me, don't even know it, and their leaders are leading them down a dead end path, which is why their problem is never able to be solved. Very sad.
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6 hours ago, fredwiggy said:
I don't see the relevance anyway. We are talking about what to do to lose weight, to prevent obesity. Looking at the average person who doesn't have a disease and will have results from a diet and fitness lifestyle change. Even those affected by an underlying disease will benefit. What happened to those babies and man isn't a normal thing. Some babies are born with extra fat but not that much. That is from a disease like those mentioned previously. The man also, his having something to do with his thyroid possibly. This post is what percent of obesity cases are from lifestyle choices, and we've covered that. It's most of them, meaning over 90% of the cases, the rest being underlying diseases and medicine, which again, will still be helped by a diet change.
And what if you are wrong?
Thought exercise. Let's say that there is this fictional country where there is something in the water that makes people incredibly hungry twenty four hours a day, so they eat much more than an ordinary person would eat. Not only that, but this mysterious substance also makes any food these poor people eat get immediately stored as fat and not burned. It would be reasonable to expect in this fictional country that there would be more fat people than in a county without this substance in the water. Probably all the people would be fat or at least fatter.
Question for you: would you say that these fat people in this country, which has this substance in the water, are fat because of choices they made? Because I wouldn't.
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20 minutes ago, robblok said:
Life is not fair, some people have a faster metabolism. It can be as much as 20% between the slow people and the fast people of equal weight.
Then you got people who don't have the same hunger response (had a gf who had no hunger response if the food was not to her liking was thin as a reed).
But fact remains nobody was obese many years ago so its just the amount and kind of food. There will always be differences between individuals just live with it.
I now got a friend who is busy gaining muscle he is ecto and has a hard time. I on the other hand don't have that much problems but have a harder time to keep the fat off. Bodies are different solutions are different but it all boils down to eating unprocessed foods cutting out sugar and eating less then you burn.
For some that is easy for others its harder but its not impossible only for a marginal percentage of the population. That percentage does not correlate with the obese people around.
I was never able to lose weight in my adult life no matter what I tried. It was hopeless. Now the weight is melting off easily. I am very confident I will reach my weight goals, and I was NEVER able to say that is the past. And I have done NONE of the things you mentioned. I have no disease, I take no medication, nothing wrong with me, eating the same foods, little or no exercise. In fact, after all this typing, I think I will eat my THIRD donut this morning and I'll STILL be losing weight, without even trying. THIS is the goal. Then ADD exercise and feel GREAT! My body builder friend APOLOGIZED to me, seeing it work and realizing that diet and lack of exercise was NOT the root cause of my weight problem.
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26 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
The change I've recommended, along with Robblok here, is the same changes I've been recommending for 45 years, first as a bodybuilder that read everything I could get on nutrition while I was weight training, without drugs, and then as a certified trainer , working in 6 different clubs in two states. The people I recommended these changes to did "fix" their problem, which was a reliance of fatty, processed foods and little exercise. After getting them involved in weights, which is by far the best exercise you can do, as it involves all muscle groups, and if done correctly, leaves little chance for injury, and recommending a diet change to healthy, grown foods, and lean fish and meat, they all got leaner. I saw these people daily, and saw the progress that they made. Of course I don't see them anymore, as I live here, but if they stuck to what I recommended, they will still be lean and strong. Tell us what you did, as you haven't except for the hunter/ gatherer link. Yes, people in earlier days worked for their foods, and didn't have McDonalds. KFC and sugary drinks back then, so they stayed leaner. Life is getting easier by the day here, and obesity is the end result, to those that don't exercise, and just HAVE to have processed foods to live. I love fatty foods, as it's fat that gives them flavor, along with sugary foods, but I'd rather be healthier and lean, so I gave up those foods except for the occasional "cheat". This is from the link you gave us..........................
The team ran several analyses accounting for the effects of body weight, body fat percentage, age, and gender. In all analyses, daily energy expenditure among the Hadza hunter-gatherers was indistinguishable from that of Westerners. The study was the first to measure energy expenditure in hunter-gatherers directly; previous studies had relied entirely on estimates.
These findings upend the long-held assumption that our hunter-gatherer ancestors expended more energy than modern populations, and challenge the view that obesity in Western populations results from decreased energy expenditure. Instead, the similarity in daily energy expenditure across a broad range of lifestyles suggests that habitual metabolic rates are relatively constant among human populations. This in turn supports the view that the current rise in obesity is due to increased food consumption, not decreased energy expenditure.
Hello Fred, thank you for your excellent post, which fills in some of your background. I find that most people who preach "diet and exercise" have been training for most or all of their lives. A good friend of mine was badgering me about diet and exercise, which we did together. He was previously a body builder also. He really worked hugely hard at it, he lost weight, but it was SLOW and DIFFICULT. I didn't lose at all. I don't lose weight on low carb. Low carb allows me to stop gaining. In other words, I usually gain about 1kg per year. Yeah low carb, allowed me to stop gaining, but I was unable to lose.
Another friend told me to install a tracking ap and eat 2,000 calories per day. There is no WAY I eat 2,000 calories in a day, more like 1,000, but still getting fat.
But the badgering from my friend motivated me to dig deep and do my own research and find out what it was that was wrong with me (IT'S NOT GENES) making me fat. And it WASN'T diet or lack of exercise. Now that I have lost 15kg WITHOUT diet and exercise, and he saw it working WITHOUT diet or exercise, he actually apologized. He realized my problem was NOT diet and lack of exercise. All that nagging talk to me was NONSENSE. It was not the root problem.
I already told you where to find the answer. What is the common thing in these two pictures?
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30 minutes ago, robblok said:
Your exactly one of those guys who always deny what works. It makes no sense to debate with you.
You find extreme examples to justify something while the MAJORITY of fat people dont have those problems.
Nope ????
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12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
I fully understand the obesity epidemic. People eat too much processed and fatty foods and have sedentary lifestyles. Not rocket science. I'm talking about billions of people. Not a few babies that have a disease or a very thin man that also has a disease. The only way to "fix" obesity is changing the way you live This effects billions, not just a few, and the answer is the same.
Nope, fatty foods are definitely not the root problem. And yes there is fundamentally something wrong with the way we live, and the result is a lot of fat people. So YES, of course we will need to change something. But the difference is, I can tell you, if the change you are recommending is diet and exercise, it WON'T work for the vast majority of people. This has been proven time and time again.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120725200304.htm
I made a change, it was NONE of the things you mentioned, and it is working fine, easily losing lot's of weight, same foods, no exercise, no drugs, no diseases or other medical problems. I already told you where to find the answer.
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6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
I listed the diseases that prevent weight gain and that enhance weight gain. What do they have in common , seeing they are opposites as far as body types.
Yes sir! This is the question of the century. Answer it, and you will understand the obesity epidemic and how to fix it. I say again, what is common between the fat babies and the skinny man? Neither of them has any real control of their weight. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG with their bodies. What is it? It is definitely NOT concerning diet and exercise, and its NOT GENES! Please can everyone stop saying GENES thanks.
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6 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:
100 %
Even those extremely rare medical conditions that make weight gain easy ..if those people cut down if their food they would still not get obese. It is impossible to gain weight when eating fewer calories that your body is using.
OK thanks, but perhaps you missed the photo of the skinny man picture. He can continuously eat 10x the number of calories his body is using and NOT GET FAT. He is near death from starvation, all the while eating boatloads of calories.
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2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
There are a few diseases that prevent weight gain or storing fat. Hyperthyroidism, diabetes, some gastrointestinal issues like crohns and celiac, and lipodystrophy, a very rare disease. Otherwise it's still the same thing, eating too many processed foods or a sedentary lifestyle.
You are getting warm. Two of the things you listed are hormone related. Anyone else? What is common between the fat babies picture and the skinny man picture? Neither of them has any real control of their weight. SOMETHING IS WRONG. What is it?
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11 hours ago, Zikomat said:
Junk food is a powerful drug. People eat it for fun. It is a much more complicated issue than many would like to believe.
It's actually not complicated at all.
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Look again at the fat babies picture. Then look at the skinny man picture. Neither of them has any real control of their weight. What do they both have in common? There is your answer.
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5 minutes ago, robblok said:
I find it quite demeaning of the people who keep saying diet and exercise don't work because it works for a lot of us and we put effort in it. Its like saying yea but your lucky its your genes has nothing to do with your effort.
I find that people have the right to be fat, ingest or drink the drugs they want but just don't moan that you can't get rid of fat. People want it all. I do too but that is just not possible.
During corvid i got fatter too, mainly because of an injury that made it hard to train. Then diet went to hell. Now its going away again. Why.. diet and exercise (mainly diet) exercise just helps me to look and feel better.
But it takes effort, during corvid i ate a lot of <deleted> fast food and stuff like cheescakes drank loads of sweet stuff. I must say it tasted better then what I eat now. Though the difference is it took far more to fill up and be satisfied.
The transition to eating good again was a bit hard but now its ok again and I don't really crave for the stuff I ate then. But it takes planning and thinking.
Ok but I NEVER mentioned genes. Please stop discussing GENES. I NEVER MENTIONED GENES. What will happen when you can no longer do your daily exercise? See? I am looking for a solution that works WITHOUT diet and exercise. And I found it. It exists. You just need to open your minds and look for it. I already posted enough information. And then ADD exercise on top of that and feel even better. It exists.
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Here's another hint. You can feed this man six thousand calories a day, and he will stay skinny. His body is totally UNABLE to absorb any of it. See? I say again, it's not just about diet and exercise.
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12 hours ago, robblok said:
I can bet that you changed what you were eating. You seem to misunderstand what diet means. Does not necessarily means eating less or being hungry.
Eating bad food can mean you eat a lot and still be hungry while eating the right food (usually not processed food) can fill you up with less (in caloric values).
Sorry, NOPE, still eating exactly the same foods. I just had TWO doughnuts less than five minutes ago.
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2 minutes ago, robblok said:
Yes but its their choice.. I only mind people like NotYourBusiness who tell me that things are impossible. Lost 25 kilo, there are many others who did the same and kept it off. By saying its genetics and so on he demeans the effort people put into stuff and the dedication of lifestyle changes.
Almost everyone can lose weight as long as they find something that suits them.
Please show me WHERE did I say it is genetics? I never said that anywhere. I never said things are impossible. I am doing it, it's NOT impossible. Just very difficult doing the things you are telling everyone to do. I am doing NONE of those things.
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1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:
It has proven to be ineffective because people are looking for a quick fix, and don't have the willpower to stay with what works like I and others have done.
lol ok man over and out. I don't need any willpower to do what I am doing. I need to say again: "BUT in the last ten months I have lost 15kg WITHOUT trying, without dieting or exercising, and I am not hungry and I'm not eating any special foods, and I have no health problems and nothing wrong with me, I don't take any medications at all, didn't get my stomach tied, and I am finally confident that I can reach my weight target for the first time in my life. I eat pretty much whatever I want. You see? It's actually NOTHING to do with diet and exercise. I finally figured out the problem in my body and I fixed it. "
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5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
You made a lifestyle change without realizing it. People are always looking for a quick fix, but it doesn't work with regards to staying in shape. It has to be permanent. You had to have cut your calories and/or exercised more, or you wouldn't have lost weight. Eating less because of obligations can cut calories, even if you don't think you did anything different. If you are past middle age as most here are, your metabolism has been getting slower all the time. If you started out as a thinner man, with a fast metabolism, you may have eaten bad for a long time, and that fast metabolism couldn't handle all the extra calories or lack of exercise you didn't do, and now, being that same person with a little slower metabolism, but still a fast one compared to others, you burned some calories by not eating as much and you lost weight. There isn't any secret formula. Eat less, exercise more or both, you lose fat. Not eating after 6PM helps. Not missing breakfast helps. Eating smaller meals helps, and it adds up . Exercise more, eat less, works for everyone, IF they stay with it and not backslide.
OK man, thanks for the input, but you are just repeating the same mantra, "exercise more, eat less", and as I already said, that is profoundly ineffective for nearly ALL people. You think I made a lifestyle change and didn't realize it? That's funny. Yes I made a lifestyle change, but it was NONE of the things you mentioned. As I said one hundred times already, those things DON'T WORK for most people, and they never worked for me either.
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17 minutes ago, robblok said:
Yes there are but its for a minority of cases. But its used by far more people as an excuse.
Most people like you think a diet is something you can do and then go back to the old diet.
That is the problem it requires a lifestyle change not a temporary change.
Very presumptuous of you to tell me what I think a diet is. I have been fat almost my entire adult life, tried the "exercise more, eat less" mantra many times. Failed every time, as nearly all people do. It simply is not effective for the vast majority of people. The data supports this.
BUT in the last ten months I have lost 15kg WITHOUT trying, without dieting or exercising, and I am not hungry and I'm not eating any special foods, and I have no health problems and nothing wrong with me, I don't take any medications at all, didn't get my stomach tied, and I am finally confident that I can reach my weight target for the first time in my life. I eat pretty much whatever I want. You see? It's actually NOTHING to do with diet and exercise. I finally figured out the problem in my body and I fixed it.
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3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
The mothers lifestyle definitely has a lot to do with a child's weight gains.Some mothers "shut their babies up" by food. Giving birth at a heavy weight doesn't help either.
OK! Then we agree? It's not just diet and exercise. Fantastic. And just to mention, I wasn't discussing a child's weight gain. I was discussing obese babies. SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THEIR BODIES. What is it? It's NOT diet or exercise.
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6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:
They aren't newborns. I was born at 9lbs 2 oz, considered big. My daughter here was born at 4.6 kg, at 8 months, huge, but she, althjough bigger than most Thai babies, is normal weight for her age American toddler. This article explains it some.....https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/01/14/463072893/can-babies-be-obese
OK thanks for comments, but I never said they were newborns, I said they were too young to walk, which eliminates exercise as the cause. I also said they were born this way and didn't choose it.
From your link: "The main point is clear, though: A lot of babies in this country may be at risk — if their high weight is sustained — of obesity. So, what is going on? To what degree is the mother's weight a cause of the baby's weight?"
We are getting somewhere. There ARE other factors besides diet and exercise.
what percent of obesity cases are the result of lifestyle choices?
in ASEAN NOW Community Pub
Posted · Edited by NotYourBusiness
Hello Fred, I did go back and read all of your previous posts. I really believe that you have your beliefs in what works for you and you are sincere in trying to help people. But here's the problem. I did all these things almost my whole life and they don't work for me. Consistently gaining an average of 1kg per year, after 30 years, do the math.......
Not quibbling, but your first sentences discuss body types. So then it's NOT just about diet and exercise? There are other factors? Because that is what I have been saying all along. The pictures I posted show examples of people not in control of their weight. There are other factors. One other minor thing, pure alcohol products like rum, vodka, gin, tequila and whiskey all contain no carbs. They are metabolized quite differently than sugar.
Back to the thread. So if what you have written hasn't worked for someone, what would you tell them? Try harder? As I said before, these people like me are generally already mentally defeated. Trying harder in that mental state is impossible. So what would you suggest? Because there is a better way. I am proof.