JimShorts
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Posts posted by JimShorts
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Again today with the air pollution being high. This morning almost 160 reading on Airvisual. It is very odd (as noted) with so much less traffic and no burning (as can be seen from the Nasa Fire watch). It must be industrial and/or construction. It seems to mostly be coming from the areas west of Bangkok. I don't personally know much about those areas and if they have a lot of industry and/or construction. I would assume most the construction is in Bangkok.
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On 4/25/2020 at 9:36 AM, DaveInSukhumvit said:
Another "special day" today leaving us to wonder why all the air pollution in BKK. AFIK, it is all "self created" likely from factories starting up and burning. (#MyTheory)
Air flow is shows that outside of BKK - on all sides - air is good. Sad that we do this.
Yes I noticed too, very interesting. Would really like to know the source. Especially considering there are much less autos on the streets. Some of it could be construction related?
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On 4/11/2020 at 7:42 PM, Thainess said:
Allergies should be the least of your problems right now.
Why is that? They are really bothersome this year.
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Thanks guys for all the feedback. I am certainly experiencing seasonal allergies worse than usual this year. Take some homeopathic allergy medicine I got on iherb helps.
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@AlexRRR Yes for me when I first stared to really notice then, about 20 years ago, it was gradual and a similar experience. Finally pinpointed bread and dairy as a major trigger and would cut them out in spring. I grew up in the NW of the USA around lots of mold, which is certainly another trigger for me, most likely from many years of over exposure. While living in NY my allergies were really bad in spring and even worse in fall, I got tested, it was from some trees and weeds in that area. It was like a brain fog, I could not think, could not focus, felt depressed.
In general dust, fumes, mold, all bother me. We have a cleaning lady so house is always clean. We use baking soda, vinegar and tea tree to clean everything with, no chemicals. No old furniture, its all newer and made from natural materials. I'm pretty strict on what I buy. Try to avoid buying plastic anything, cheap clothing, etc. If I do I soak it to remove the chemicals. Soak fruit and veggies too to remove chemicals. Only thing I don't have control over are the chemicals they used to build our apartment. Also with the humidity here we have had mold issues a few times.
I run air purifiers 24/7 which I think helps. However I also run the AC in dehumidify most of the time 24/7 (this helps a lot against the mold issues), which makes the air a little too dry. I find if the humidity drops under 50% my sinuses get inflamed.
Here in Bangkok I am very happy, it is much better then other places I have lived. Just hits me mildly a couple times a year for a couple weeks.
Actually I have been here 3 years, the first year they were the worst. The second year I cut all dairy and meat and they got better. The third year I cut white grains for the most part and again they improved. So for me cutting meat, dairy and white grains has really helped.
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@AgMech Cowboy Thank you for sharing! Makes me feel much better knowing it is seasonal allergies and not something else. Sorry to hear about you and your son. I have similar experience, sinuses get inflamed and nose is a little stuffed up. Generic Zyrtec helps.
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Yes I cut dairy about 2 years ago. Certainly makes a difference. I don't eat much sugar. White bread/pasta also gets me sometimes and I try to only eat whole wheat which seems to be ok.
No smell at home. Whatever is triggering it comes and goes. Could be dust build-up in the AC filters. But I think it is something blooming outside.
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Anyone else experiencing allergies currently? I have some light allergy symptoms, wondering if it is a flower or tree blossoming, or maybe from being inside too much and I need to clean my air conditioner filters. After 3 years living here, I do notice I get allergies once or twice a year for a couple weeks, but I always forget to note down what time of year it is.
In general, anyone have allergies in Bangkok. If so what months is it most noticeable?
In general I find living here very good for my allergies. While living in the US, some cities it was really bad.
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5 hours ago, CGW said:
With all due respect, your "sources' stink, wiki is not a reliable source anymore (if it ever was?) the other is from 2005, personal exposure tells me they are not even vaguely correct & posted with an ulterior motive - like so much is these days!
I do realise that in this day and age it is very difficult to find reliable sources of correct info!
Yes basically impossible to find reliable sources. However city population on wikipedia is probably as accurate as you will find anywhere. The pollution data mostly is coming from private and non-profit sources. You can use the world map option in the airvisual app over time, if you watch it daily for a year it really paints the picture. Or use the history feature on the aqicn website and compare cities.
I think the point still hold true. Bangkok air is certainly polluted, and very unhealthy most of the year. However for a city it's size in Asia, it is probably the 5th or 6th best option, after Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Seoul and maybe Ho Chi Minh. Out of 45 mega-cities in the world with similar populations, about half (mostly the asian ones) are worse and half are better.
Also there are hundreds of much smaller cities in the world with much worse air pollution than Bangkok.
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On 1/14/2020 at 1:28 PM, brewsterbudgen said:
Bangkok is only "very unhealthy" for short periods during the year, and is rarely "hazardous"; Chiang Mai and other Thai cities get it worse. And at least Thailand is better than most cities in China and India.
Technically as of 2018 data, there are 473 worse cities. (keep in mind Africa has some of the worst air in the world, however they have almost no monitoring stations, so actually much more then 473 worse cities)
The top 20 heavily dominated by India. Top 500 heavily dominated by China.
Out of the 31 cities in the world with pop over 5M:
- 7 cities with higher pop then Bangkok and higher on the list of top 500 most polluted cities
- 1 city with higher pop then Bangkok and lower on the list of top 500 most polluted cities
- 13 cities with higher pop then Bangkok and not in the top 500 most polluted cities
- 3 cities with lower pop the Bangkok and not in the top 500 most polluted cities
- 7 cities with lower pop the Bangkok and in the top 500 most polluted cities
So as far as air pollution goes if you want to live in city with pop over 5M, there are 17 better options, 13 worse options.
Sources:
https://data.mongabay.com/igapo/2005_world_city_populations/2005_city_population_01.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-polluted_cities_by_particulate_matter_concentration
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In related news, Romania wins and gets the highest score possible!
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22 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:
The ONLY advantage to staying inside, if there is any, is the chance that you might be avoiding more physical exertion by staying home than if you were hoofing it around outside, and thus breathing in less deeply the lousy air. But it's certainly wrong to make people think their unpurified home air is any better than outside.
So as an example, that's one reason why some schools cancel PE/outdoors activities when the air is really bad...to limit the physical activity of their students.
True, good point.
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Really bad today and not clearing up much. Many purple areas. ????
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6 hours ago, MaxYakov said:I wear a mask even in my apartment's un-air-purified rooms because I know the pollution levels in those rooms are essentially the same as outside.
This is true and really upsets me when official warning announcements state "stay inside and shut your windows" or when school is cancelled so children can stay home inside. Without an air purifier it is just as bad inside as outside, often worse.
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6 hours ago, MaxYakov said:
One would have to carry a PM2.5 meter to measure and verify the levels anywhere. I have done this at the FoodLand (Took La Dee) restaurants and pollution levels are actually worse than outside - probably because of the cooking. I doubt that there are many "safe havens" out there among the malls, restaurants and coffee shops and (even) the schools. If I had a child in school, I'd be verifying steps it has taken to lessen its pollution level. But what do the children do during recess? How many children are actually in effective masks these days (rhetorical question)?
I don't worry about it too much because I'm always in an effective mask except when I'm actually eating. I wear a mask even in my apartment's un-air-purified rooms because I know the pollution levels in those rooms are essentially the same as outside. I keep only one "clean room", my bedroom of around 15 m2. I try to keep the levels at < 5 mcg/m3 there. My biggest nightmare is falling asleep and breathing 100 mcg/m3 for several hours as do (apparently) most of the residents of Bangkok during "unhealthy/red" hours. I personally consider anything greater than a very clean "green" level to be unhealthy, but that's just me.
Incidentally, since I've been wearing an effective mask full-time when out and about, my incidences of what used to be catching a cold regularly has dropped to zero (knock on wood). I also try to avoid being around people (mainly due to the noise - another pollution issue with me).
There most certainly are safe havens. I do take my monitor with my everywhere when the air is bad outside. Most restaurants have bad air, many have worse than outside. The bakery near me has air well over 250µg/m3! However the coffee shop near me has air under 15µg/m3 on the worst days. The malls have air under 20µg/m3 when it is 80µg/m3. Almost all the indoor children play areas have purifiers and decent air.
Most (maybe all) international schools cancel outside play when air is bad. they all have different cutoffs, my sons school the cutoff 35µg/m3. They also have air purifiers in every room. Thai schools on the other hand are much more liberal and usually only cut outdoor play at 56µg/m3. Most Thai schools, like most Thai houses are indoor/outdoor and the air is the same inside as out so it is rather pointless anyways.
Over the last two years I see more and more children wearing proper masks. My kids wear them. At my sons school, mostly Japanese, about 10% of the kids wear them to/from school.
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6 hours ago, MaxYakov said:
If children are more susceptible to air pollution, then they should be in masks at all times during other-than-green pollution levels. The thing is I don't think I've seen child-size masks for sale anywhere. Would the children even wear them (or be made to wear them) if they were available?
My 3 year old son wears a mask to/from school. We only enforce it on days when the air is orange or worse. My 1 year old is a little less compliant, however she will usually wear it if everyone else is wearing one as well. For the most part the kids stay inside if the air is orange or worse. We have a rule that the air must be under 20µg/m3 the kids can play outside. 20-30µg/m3 outside play is limited for the 3 year old and 1 year old should not be outside. Over 30µg/m3 and both should be inside. Air inside our apartment is always under 8µg/m3, usually around 4µg/m3. Air at my 3 year olds school is around 10µg/m3 on days when it is bad outside. We are lucky because the building we live in has two large indoor play areas with air purifiers, air is always under 10µg/m3. Also we know which malls, indoor play areas, coffee shops, restaurants, etc. have decent air so we can get the kids out of the house when the air is bad. I am sure even with all this the air pollution still has a negative impact on their health, but we try to minimize it within reason.
You can buy child size masks on amazon.
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4 hours ago, Number 6 said:
Best way to protect yourself...
Leave.
If it REALLY bothers you mentally or physically why would you stay? You cannot possibly plan to live the balance of your life under a mask?! Really don't understand people.
Not an option for everyone. Also living anywhere is a balance of pros and cons. Staying indoors and wearing a mask for a few months each year sucks, but not necessarily a deal breaker. Some other places you have to stay inside for 6 months and wear a mask because it is so cold. Many pros to living in Bangkok, also a fair amount of cons, air pollution being the biggest con in my mind.
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5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:
I've never found that to be the case here...
No. 1 - Those kinds of places typically aren't using any kind of purifier equipment other than traditional air con units. and
No. 2 -- Malls and restaurants have a lot of cooking activity going on, and that involves frying, baking, grilling etc etc that generates A LOT of localized PM2.5. When I've taken my Sndway units out and around, you'd be surprised at just how high the PM2.5 levels get in some big malls. In general, they are NOT any kind of air quality refuge.
I have taken my portable monitor to the 2 malls at Phrom Phong, when the air is bad outside (over 50µg/m3) and they both have decent air, under 20µg/m3, aside from the food courts which like you said have really bad air, usually over 50µg/m3 even when the air ok outside.
Same goes for a number of coffee shops and other indoor places. The coffee shop I was at this morning the air was under 15µg/m3.
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5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:
Jim, I think that's a matter for some judgment.
The actual official standard for yellow is "moderate." You don't get an official declaration of unhealthy for sensitive groups until you get to orange.
Personally, I keep my home levels always in the green AQI category. And I'd bit a bit wary of going outside for exercise when the moderate levels get toward the high end of that range, up toward 100 AQI.
But officially, the EPA authorities that make up these categories I don't think would say 50-100 AQI (yellow) is unhealthy for the general population. That's their standard, though you or I certainly can choose to be more rigorous.
Note the official AQI health impact statements by level:
Yellow:
Moderate
Air quality is acceptable; however, for some pollutants there may be a moderate health concern for a very small number of people who are unusually sensitive to air pollution.
Orange:
Unhealthy for Sensitive Groups
Members of sensitive groups may experience health effects. The general public is not likely to be affected.
Yes it depends on the source. Many studies question the "safe" levels set by the EPA. The WHO states no level is safe and that exposure should not exceed an average of 25µg/m3 (78 AQI) in a 24-hour period which is almost exactly in the middle of the yellow. They also state exposure should not exceed an average of 10µg/m3 (42 AQI) in an annual period, which is green.
The fact is no level of PM2.5 is safe. Any exposure causes health issues:
https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/safe-levels-of-air-pollution-could-still-be-harmful/
Also keep in mind both the WHO and the EPA recommendations are for full grown healthy adults. The numbers are exponential different for young children (especially babies) elderly, pregnant (fetus) and sick people, thus the vague "sensitive group" reference.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170630124346.htm
Also keep in mind pollutants build up in the body, so when coupled with other pollutants like pesticides, chemicals, radiation, etc. which most people are over-exposed to, the impact is greater.
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2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:
Why would you think that?
I have HEPA air purifiers at home that I use regularly as needed. I also have a pair of Sndway digital PM2.5 monitors that take readings in real time.
I can see the indoor PM2.5 levels when we come home to an empty house. We turn on our air purifiers, and I can see the PM2.5 levels steadily drop until we get them where we want them, based on a combination of the ambient air conditions and what fan speeds we choose to use.
As long as they're quality units, the filters are replaced as needed and the units are sized properly for the areas you're trying to keep the air clean for, they'll perform exactly as intended.
I too run air purifiers at home, one in each room. They most certainly have a huge effect. The air inside is usually under 20 AQI and at the worst of times never over 40 AQI. It makes a massive difference, especially if you sleep 20-30% of your life, or like most young kids 50%.
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2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:
And then do what? Move?
At least you will be able to know if the air in your house is ok or not and do something to fix it if it is not ok. Same goes for your kid's school and your workplace. Most school actually have air purifiers or are willing to install them. You will also find many safe havens, such as many malls, restaurants, coffee shops, kids indoor play areas, etc. all with good air.
I too am here for work and although I am seriously considering leaving, for now I try to make the best of it.
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2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:
The air pollution chart data we often use here is aggregated and presented by the aqicn.org website and its pulling data from a worldwide network of monitoring stations, including for Thailand the various government operated monitoring sites. AFAIK, that entity is not run by the Chinese government.
But more to the point, the AQI data presented there uses the U.S./international standard for assessing health risk, not the Thai standard that allows higher levels of PM2.5 before declaring it unhealthy. IME, the aqicn.org data and charting for Thailand is a pretty good and accurate indicators of local conditions here.
My bad, I did not explain myself correctly. What I was trying to say is that aqicn.org website is indeed the best measure we have available and I am thankful for the project. However the way most people interpret the AQI colors is inaccurate. Anything other than green is not safe for health, especially for young kids and older people. Yellow and orange are not be careful, they are this is unhealthy. Yellow equals unhealthy. Orange, red, purple and brown are more and more unhealthy.
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39 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:
Actually you have to throw in February. In 2019 February wasn't too bad but in 2017 and 2018 it was even worse than December and a lot worse than November (aqicn.org historicals). So basically November-February are the problem. The rest of the year is indeed reasonable. But that means 4 months/year are to be avoided. Not a very acceptable situation. The trouble for me is finding an alternative in Asia. Outside of Japan and Taiwan there don't seem to be any major cities that are much better. Don't trust those figures from Malaysia, they don't monitor properly.
Oct-Mar is much more accurate. It changes year to year. Last year Oct was great, this year it was bad. Year before last Feb was the worst month by far and Mar was pretty bad too.
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58 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:
Absolutely. I live in Ploenchit, have a 4 year old son who goes to school there, and I work in Siam. We use 3 air purifiers at home, but I doubt they have a huge effect. I'd love to move, byt my work is here. It's just something I have had to accept.
get a handheld monitor
Bangkok Air Pollution 2020
in Bangkok
Posted
Harvard published a study on the link between air pollution (PM2.5) and Covid-19. The results are pretty crazy.
Results: We found that an increase of only 1 μg/m3 in PM2.5 is associated with an 8% increase in the COVID-19 death rate (95% confidence interval [CI]: 2%, 15%). The results were statistically significant and robust to secondary and sensitivity analyses.
Data sources: COVID-19 death counts were collected for more than 3,000 counties in the United States (representing 98% of the population) up to April 22, 2020 from Johns Hopkins University, Center for Systems Science and Engineering Coronavirus Resource Center.
Study Source: https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/covid-pm/home