samtam
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Posts posted by samtam
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1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:
Dunno what you mean by "pretty well off". LTR, with an 80000 USD pension plus health cover requirement. It is for anyone who had a middle management career and retired at the "normal age", as defined by their pension funds. That's my case and there are probably 50 Million of other people in that situation in Europe alone.
"pretty well off" not my words....@redwood1's
LTR visa is for "wealthy retirees"....LTR's words.
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11 minutes ago, redwood1 said:
This tax has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese
Like you say the LTR visa is officially exempt.....A visa for pretty well off folks..
Or just stay 179 days wire in a zillion dollars...Leave then come back in 6 months and your zillion dollars is 100% tax free...
Or just become a Thai very few Thais pay any tax.....lol
Or just claim all your money was made before 2024
Or Or Or, bla bla bla
Yes, I have considered the LTR visa route, but not sure whether I qualify. I used a LTR visa "specialist agent" whose enquiries initially elicited a "yes", (with various "alternative requirements" to satisfy financials), but then there was a misunderstanding about my marital status, so it's a "maybe". I don't want to abandon the Extension based on Retirement, only to find out that the tax rules have change for LTR in 5 years, or the "maybe" becomes "maybe not", and I have to reapply for an "O" Visa, and all the pain in the derriere that entails.
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1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:
It might, I don't know. logically it should but I can't say, sorry. If it was me I think I would give it a try, the rationale is sound.
"giving it try"....by getting a CPA? Maybe others in this situation, (HK investment income at zero tax at source), could chime in.
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15 hours ago, Mike Lister said:Number 1, the UK State Pension, is subject to the UK tax return process and even though no tax is paid on it, that means it is free of tax here. The key is that the income is subject to the process, not necessarily that tax is paid.
Oh I understand your comment. The UK State Pension (UKSP) is tax free based on the TEDA. My UKSP is THB431,800 and my TEDA is THB500,000.
What I find so odd about the situation in Thailand, is that for many of us, on visas, extended based on Retirement, we are strictly forbidden from working in Thailand, and so are totally reliant on income from abroad to meet daily necessities, such as food, accommodation etc. Holders of LTR for "wealthy retirees" are exempt from tax for inward remittances, and I venture to say this should be the default position for expat retirees. But what I think matters not a jot to the Thai government, and catering to the "desirable expat retirement destination" is not even on the radar.
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12 hours ago, Mike Lister said:
Re. Number 1 - if it weren't for the existence of the Personal Allowance, that tax free zone, the State pension would be taxable. But because the PA does exist, the SP is taxable but effectively at a zero rated band. The net is that the SP has been thru the tax return process, if the PA were removed tomorrow, the SP would be taxed at 20%.
Re. Number 2 - I'm struggling with this. That income is not taxable in HK but when it is imported here it may be, you aren't a citizen (presumably) of HK, you only have an investment there so I don't think you can invoke a DTA, even if it were favorable to you. I think bottom line may be that it is Thai taxable but I'm not certain.
Re: pre 1 Jan 2024 income - correct.
Re. Number 2, I a Permanent Resident of Hong Kong with Right of Abode, so I don't know whether that affects this income.
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1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:
Number 1, the UK State Pension, is subject to the UK tax return process and even though no tax is paid on it, that means it is free of tax here. The key is that the income is subject to the process, not necessarily that tax is paid.
Number 2 is slightly more tricky, presumably this is offshore income which depending on the relevant DTA, is likely tax able here, subject to TEDA. But it depends when the income was earned, if prior to 1 January 2024, it also is free of tax in Thailand. If earned after that date, the capital and interest need to be separated such that the capital is free of tax but the income earned post 1 January 2024 is taxable.
Number 1....Oh, so that's now a complete reversal of what I understood from this Opus Magnum.
Number 2....It is an income derived from dividends in shares, which are assessed, but deemed not taxable, under the tax laws of Hong Kong:
QuoteDividends are generally not taxable. Dividends paid from profits that already have been subject to Hong Kong tax are not taxable in the hands of shareholders. Dividends received from foreign companies are not taxable because they are foreign- source income. Hong Kong does not tax capital gains.
cf: https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/hong-kong-sar/corporate/income-determination
Income pre 1 January 2024 is now apparently exempt, but income derived after 1 January 2024 is not exempt...(subject to being utilised within Thailand, by means of ATM withdrawal or HK issued Credit Card usage).
Is that correct?
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43 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:
Sure, the link is below, the tax rates are at 31 and the TEDA at 33. We're currently working to proof read and make the document easier to read so bear with us.
Thank you so much. I'd better go and file it where I can't lose it.
47 minutes ago, samtam said:Well I obviously do.
....and hence the reason for the above post. The change is just another paper trail that I will have to create for what will probably be a tiny amount of money to be paid to the RD; my problem, not yours or theirs. Having jettisoned that rigmarole with visa extensions, by using an agent, I guess this will be another one for a CPA, in due course, before March 2025.
Whilst I'm at it, Can you please provide another link to the tax rates and deductibles, as I'm going cross-eyed back and forth over the two topic posts.
Yeah, I searched it on AN.
(Maybe put the glossary in the other post's Guidelines.)
The income I referred to was
1) UK State Pension (not applicable under DTA),
2) Income from investments (not taxed in the jurisdiction where they are earned).
I think already asked an answered, I presume "assessed" but not taxed means taxable in Thailand, if brought into Thailand, by whatever means?*
1) is assessed but not taxed, or zero-rated taxed, (as it falls below the UK tax allowance) and
2) is assessed but not taxed, because it is zero-rated in the jurisdiction in which it is earned.
*Is that correct?
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47 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:
It's just that most people don't even need to get as far as considering TEDA because if their income is already taxed overseas in the UK, there is no need to file a return in Thailand.
Well I obviously do.
1 hour ago, samtam said:I am agreeing with @Guderian because
this is true. What alters it is the allowances and deductibles, to the tune of THB500,000 per single person over the age of 65.
My UK State Pension, and income derived from investments that are brought into Thailand in whatever form, (use of foreign credit cards, ATM withdrawals from overseas accounts) are not taxed at source, so are all taxable in Thailand. So yes, the entire income is assessable for Thai tax, but not all of it is subject to tax, after deductions and allowances.
As a single person (in Thai Law), but with co-mingled funds outside of Thailand entirely from joint accounts, both myself and my partner (foreigner over 65), will benefit from a THB500K deductible, (total THB1m), as we shall submit separate tax returns, which will reduce the tax bill.
....and hence the reason for the above post. The change is just another paper trail that I will have to create for what will probably be a tiny amount of money to be paid to the RD; my problem, not yours or theirs. Having jettisoned that rigmarole with visa extensions, by using an agent, I guess this will be another one for a CPA, in due course, before March 2025.
Whilst I'm at it, Can you please provide another link to the tax rates and deductibles, as I'm going cross-eyed back and forth over the two topic posts.
1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:Hahaha....Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances.
Yeah, I searched it on AN.
(Maybe put the glossary in the other post's Guidelines.)
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45 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:
Tax Exemptions Deductions Allowances (TEDA)
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I don't know whether it still applies, but does one/can one book online for a renewal of a 5 year Thai Driving Licence at Chatuchak DLT office? If so, does anyone have the link?
In a previous thread it was suggested that I can apply within 12 months of expiry; mine expires on 30 April 2024.
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12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:
But then it changes yet again here:
https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html
Now I'm confused again!
What is "it" that changes?
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On 2/4/2024 at 3:49 PM, Mike Lister said:
As the poster above as already said, you're reading the wrong thiSection 40 appears to class pensions and overseas investment income as assessable for Thai tax, which probably means the entire income of many pensioners living here.ngs, why this is only you will know! When you get done, please read this and come back to us with any remaining questions.
https://aseannow.com/topic/1316818-personal-income-tax-guide-for-foreigners-thailand/
I am agreeing with @Guderian because
QuoteSection 40 appears to class pensions and overseas investment income as assessable for Thai tax, which probably means the entire income of many pensioners living here.
this is true. What alters it is the allowances and deductibles, to the tune of THB500,000 per single person over the age of 65.
My UK State Pension, and income derived from investments that are brought into Thailand in whatever form, (use of foreign credit cards, ATM withdrawals from overseas accounts) are not taxed at source, so are all taxable in Thailand. So yes, the entire income is assessable for Thai tax, but not all of it is subject to tax, after deductions and allowances.
As a single person (in Thai Law), but with co-mingled funds outside of Thailand entirely from joint accounts, both myself and my partner (foreigner over 65), will benefit from a THB500K deductible, (total THB1m), as we shall submit separate tax returns, which will reduce the tax bill.
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2 hours ago, Guderian said:
It seems like bad news to me. Section 40 appears to class pensions and overseas investment income as assessable for Thai tax, which probably means the entire income of many pensioners living here.
https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html
That's how I read it too.
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18 hours ago, Pouatchee said:
Pheu Thai leader backs Srettha as PM, for now
Hardly a ringing endorsement.
Based on her own words in the interview, Srettha is the only one to keep the coalition together, inferring that she could not? If the coalition fumbles over much more of its completely altered election promises there may be a few members of that who peel away. (Well that assumes any of them have any integrity, rather than devotion to the spoils of being in government; nah, forget that.) Today's ruling by the Constitutional Court on MFP may upset the whole applecart, which ever way it goes.
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41 minutes ago, Emdog said:
These morons worried about tourists, don't give a damn about the health impact on Thai people
Yes. It's truly sad that this is the benchmark for tackling the problem:
Let's make sure it's good for tourism. No consideration for the poor (and rich) citizens of the Land of Smog.
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10 minutes ago, samtam said:
Agreed. The Cyclist has already done this. As I'm in Bangkok, I'm obviously interested in anyone's experience here.
Here is the context, for those who missed it. His RD office is Pak Chong:
QuoteJust posted this on a newly opened thread, might be of use to some.
I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.
P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout with matching colour coding.
All as easy as pie.
Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.
I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.
Take your pick from the following
* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.
* My local RD couldn't care less.
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On 1/27/2024 at 2:50 PM, The Cyclist said:
Pak Chong
5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:I agree that sort of information will be useful downstream but I don't think we're anywhere near to that point. Audits and fines on any scale are probably 12 to 15 months away at the soonest. In the meantime, what we desperately need is for posters to give us details of what happened when they visited the Revenue office because that will help many people plan and make better decisions.
Agreed. The Cyclist has already done this. As I'm in Bangkok, I'm obviously interested in anyone's experience here.
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On 1/26/2024 at 12:35 PM, The Cyclist said:
Just posted this on a newly opened thread, might be of use to some.
I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.
P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout with matching colour coding.
All as easy as pie.
Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.
I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.
Take your pick from the following
* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.
* My local RD couldn't care less.
Where is your local RD?
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2 hours ago, bannork said:
One case down, one to go ( Jan 31).
Yes, Pita's days as an MP might be very short indeed. If MF is banned there may well be trouble.
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7 hours ago, RamblingOn said:
RTA????
This lot:
3 hours ago, billd766 said:It doesn't and didn't stop the military who own many national radio and TV stations in Thailand, from before the last coup until now.
If the military own many national radio and TV stations in Thailand, they should automatically be disbarred from politics.
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47 minutes ago, retarius said:
It is a good law because it prevents people who control the media from participating in elections.
Like the RTA?
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2 minutes ago, Karma80 said:
I left Bangkok because of the pollution. Phuket's way better, but you trade PM2.5 for a whole other bucket of quality-of-life issues
Yeah, that's the problem. I exercise my mind on this issue frequently, and I think have substantially concluded that if you're going to live in Thailand, (a developing country), you need to live in Bangkok, which is as good as a city in the "first world"; (they all have issues).
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2 hours ago, shackleton said:
This PM2.5 dust is getting worse all over the Country especially here in Bangkok this morning 🌄
Never mind a plan in 90 days should be giving it priority now
What about the Tourists can't be enjoying their stay stuck in a hotel
Or wearing a face mask when out 😷
Yes, they, (the government) care about tourists/tourism more than anything else in this country. God forbid the health and well-being of the citizenry should factor in. And I imagine they rather think it's not a problem for them, in the their airconditioned, air-purified ivory towers and motorised conveyances. But, like covid, it affects everyone living in the country. Every single person, rich or poor, hiso or loso.
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8 minutes ago, motdaeng said:but this time, we are all confident that the government will solve the problem ... the same (bs) as promised in the past years.
there's always a great deal of talking, but no substantive actions. the burning has started and will continue as usual ...
if there are no active measures and strict law enforcement, nothing will change, just as it hasn't in the past years.
Yes, isn't it strange it has never been discussed, and no plan put forward over the past 9 or so years the AQI has drastically deteriorated. It's not as though the problem just happened this year.
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Thai government to tax all income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024
in Thailand News
Posted
I like your optimism, and your argument makes complete sense, but...
Even with the Malaysian scenario with which doubtless they are familiar, and the many discussions herein and elsewhere, the consultative process with CPAs and stakeholders, the RD/Thai government shoot from the hip.