TaoNow

Just a note on my experience with Immo/Bangkok. In the 50 years I have been doing extensions at this office, I have never been approached or coached to use an agent to get around the standard requirements for an extnension of the permit to stay. I would like to see any member of this Forum to present a first-hand report of bribing an officer at Immo Division 1 in order to get around the financial (or other) requirements for an extension of stay. Waiting...

I have been doing retirement extensions at Immo/Bkk for the past 15 years. If you use the 800K baht in the bank method, and leave it there all year, there have been no changes to the requirements for an extension. Yes, there have been a few minor changes, such as the photocopy of the TM47, hand-drawn map, 4 forms to sign. But, those are just minor changes which can be done on-site. If you really can't stand the treatment by your local Immo office, then I recommend changing your legal address to somewhere in Bangkok, and report to Division 1. 'nuff said

No foreigner is "legally entitled" to enter Thailand. That fact is what so many posters here seem not to grasp.

About 10 years ago, I rented a motorbike, and rode all around Phuket for a year. I had a Thai car-driver's license and a driver's license from my passport country -- but no motorcycle license. I once asked a pair of Thai police officers which license I should show if I were stopped by traffic police. They suggested showing the driver's license from my passport country.

Just a minor footnote on ex-pat ownership of land in Thailand. When my Thai wife died suddenly in 2011, I went to the local branch (Taling Chan) of the provincial court to arrange probate. I presented all the relevant documents (marriage cert., death cert., household reg., land deeds, waivers from our adult children, etc.) Then a few months later I appeared before 3 judges at the court. I had no lawyer. We just exchanged a few questions and answers and that was that. My name was added to the land deed documents, and the main District Office and District Land Office said that I could sell the land if I chose to. But, I never intended to sell, so that was moot. One oddity though: While I owned the land, I could not own the house which sits on it. Only a Thai citizen can have their name on the House # document and Household Registration book. 'nuff said.

Thanks for this update. IMHO, these trip reports are the most valuable threads in this part of the AN Forum. Just a few notes/queries. I assume you are using the money-in-the-bank method (i.e., with 800K in a regular or fixed deposits account in a local Thai bank). In my experience over the past ten years, Immo/CW has never asked for anything related to housing (other than the hand-drawn map). No TM 30, rent agreement or other documentation on living arrangagments was asked for. Also, I have found that they like the one-year bank statement which lists, on a single page, the running balance in the bank account which, in my case, is a fixed deposit with SCB. They also wanted to photocopy all pages of the FD account bank book, even though it went beyond one year in the past. Once again, thanks for the update.

Excellent trip report. Many thanks. I still maintain that these trip reports are the most valuable contribution to the Forum. Just a note on Immo/CW: My 800K+ FD account is with SCB, and I use it solely for extension purposes. So, every year, I go to the nearest SCB branch to the Govt. Complex, and they produce two documents: (1) Is the standard letter indicating the balance on that day (after I deposit a nominal amount to update the bank book); and (2) An annual statement, which lists the balance for the entire year, month by month. In my experience, IMMO/CW (at the online appt desk) seems to like the annual statement, since they go over that carefully with a neon marker. They also require a photocopy of every page of the up-dated SCB FD bank book. The only cost to me is an extra 200 baht for the annual statement -- which I am happy to pay.

I did the hand-drawn map once maybe 10 years ago and have used a photocopy ever since. Immo/CW has always accepted my B&W photocopy.

@WhatMeWorry -- As I noted on another thread, a few years back, I was late by a few days with the 90-day address report at Immo/CW. Yes, I paid the 2,000 baht fine -- BUT, Immo/CW put a half-page red stamp in my passport saying I was delinquent in making the 90-day report. Only a new passport can remove the stamp -- but it still may be in the database. If IMMO still puts a stamp in your passport for being late, that means they want to alert other IMMO office(r)s about this and, perhaps, increase the fine for repeat infractions. The law allows them to charge up to 5,000 baht for a late 90-day address report. My advice to you and others: Don't risk it.

@mike I don't use a VPN.

It is not clear from the above whether OP is past the grace period (1 week) for the 90-day address report. I notice the use of the term "over-due." At least in my experience about 10 years ago, if you are past the grace period on reporting your address longer than 90 days (i.e., plus 7 days), then you are fined 2,000 baht, AND they put a half-page red stamp in your passport saying your were delinquent. While I dutifully paid the fine, the glaring, half-page red stamp made me wonder why Immo/CW needed to alert other Immo officers that I was once late in complying with the 90-day deadline for an address report. Only after I got a new passport did the red stamp disappear -- at least on page. Word to the wise: Don't be late on the 90-day address report.

I tried to log in. Couldn't pass the CAPTCHA test, despite many tries.

Just a quick response to (1) Dr. Jack and (2) Liquorice regarding my earlier post: (1) The one time I submitted the 90-day address report by mail (during the 2011 mega-flood) I only submitted a photocopy of my previous 90-day report notice. Immo/CW did send me a new one back, but wrote in ALL CAPS red ink that, next time, I must submit the original, not a photocopy. (2) It is true that, between annual extensions, we could move around the country to who-knows-where. However, we could also do that between the 90-day address reports. Besides, for those on annual extensions), Immo has our cell phone number to track us (good folks) down if need be. I once asked a senior officer at Immo/CW why we had to do the 90-day reports. She responded, cryptically, "in case you have a problem." I interpreted that to mean that if there was an arrest warrant out for me. (But I didn't bother to follow up with her on that day to get clarity.) Word to the Wise

I agree whole-heartedly that the 90-day address report is offensive and redundant (for those on annual extensions). When I lived in Mahasarakham Province in the early 1970s, the local residents of Vietnamese descent had to report to the local police station every 90 days. Sound familiar? Nevertheless, I go to Immo/CW every 90 days to do my address report in person for the following reasons: - The online reporting system can be dodgy (as reported amply in this forum) - I once did the mail-in approach, but I don't like the idea of sending off the original receipt in the mail (despite the excellent record of ThailandPost) - It is always informative to visit Immo to see if there are changes in procedures, and chat with other aging ex-pats - The report only involves 4 hours of my life every 3 months - and that is well worth the price of living here with a clean conscience - If you are late, (as I once was, by only 3 days) you get a big red stamp (half-page) in your passport saying you failed to report on time. Only a new passport can erase that stamp. Yet, I truly sympathize with those who have to travel hundreds of kilometers to do this needless task -- we could be anywhere in country in the interim, and Immo would never know.

My advice to ex-pats who want to use the 800K baht money-in-the-bank method is to view this deposit as a bond. It is an expression of financial viability which Immo wants to see for those who seek a one-year extension of the permit-to-stay for reason of "retirement." If you can afford to do that, and just leave it in a fixed account in a Thai bank, then you eliminate all the mental stress of exchange rates, transfers, and lost investment opportunities elsewhere. It is the most painless way to remain in Thailand indefinitely if you are age 50+ years. 'nuff said.

I truly sympathize with ex-pats (like Sheryl) who are stuck with a rogue Immo office(r) in an out-of-the-way province (Prachinburi?). I was wondering: Does speaking Thai with the Immo officer make any difference? At Immo/CW, I studiously follow the lead of the officer. If s/he speaks to me in English, I stick to English. If in Thai, then it is Thai all the way. But, I have never noticed a difference in attitude or treatment at CW whether I use English or Thai. In that location, language is not a factor since the service has been consistent and professional over the decades I've used it. Just a postscript: While Sheryl owns her house but not the land on which it sits, I own the land where "my" house sits, but not the house itself. But, that is a story for another thread.

I may be wrong, but I think OP is referring to the Beung Kan Immo office. That is adjacent to the Mekong River.

This interesting post (and the follow-ups) brings up some important points: 1) OP wasn't pulled out of the line because of his passport -- since he hadn't even reached the PP Control desk. So, the content of his PP was not the reason for the initial harrasment. 2) OP had his cell phone out and, presumably turned on -- that is something we can all take note of and be careful to avoid. 3) Based on the later communication with the Immo staff in Bangkok, OP would have been denied entry at any Thai border crossing due to history of "too many" (land-border?) visa-exempt entries. 4) While that does not excuse the unprofessional behavior of the Phuket Immo officer, it does point to an important fact: 5) Thai Immo staff are not a welcoming committee. They are there as gatekeepers. And the officer who screens your passport can deny entry if they suspect you are abusing the visa-exempt entry system. 6) Yes, you can appeal to a higher-up -- but that still does not mean they have to grant you entry. Ex-pats need to understand that entry to Thailand is not a right -- it is a privilege. 7) Finally, OP says he has family inThailand. So, the question is why he (I presume OP is a "he") did not have a family-friendly visa that easily allows entry to visit wife, child, etc. 8) In sum, Thai Immo seems to be saying: "Get the proper visa the best suits your reason for being in Thailand --- and keep visa-exempt entry to a minimum." 'Nuff said.

I have done both: marriage and retirement. For me, the clincher was the fact that I could do the retirement extension on my own, at my convenience, and not have to bother anyone else. 'nuff said.

OP: The following statement confused me a bit: Based on reports by others doing retirement extensions, Immo looks for evidence that funds in excess of 65K baht (equivalent) was depposited into your Thai bank account from overseas each month for the past 12 months. They simply verify this by looking at your bankbook, which should have the code for foreign cash transfer for each amount. I haven't seen anything about reconciling with the bank in the US. Frankly, Immo doesn't care where the funds come from -- just as long as you have 12 consecutive transfers into your account from outside Thailand. So, what was the confusion at the office you went to. And it would help to know which province you did your extension at. Thanks.

@ Hummin -- to get us back on track (and not your individual situation): The reason that Immo is pressuring certain embassies to verify claims of pension income is that they are trying to weed out those ex-pats who are trying to get around the financial requirements of a retirement extension (i.e., 65K baht per month from overseas; in-country bank account with liquid 800K baht pre/post extension date). You, Hummin, may have the financial means to satisfy the Immo regs, but your embassy will need to provide proof of that to Thai Immo going forward. And the only way they can do that is by a sworn statement that you have a verifiable pension income of at least 65K baht per month. As others have pointed out, an ex-pat in Thailand may have a 65K baht monthly income from assets other than pensions which no embassy is willing or able to verify. That is where the injustice lies. But, we ex-pats have to live within the rules.

Tod and Khunper are correct -- at least in my experience. I entered Thailand with a "Non-B" visa in December, 2007. Then, I did a 60-day extension of "permit to stay" for reason of visiting a Thai spouse. Having established the financial requirement of the 800K baht in the bank, I was then granted a new extension for the purpose of "retirement." Nothing has changed since my experience in terms of Immo regulations. This all seems quite logical and clear-cut. Not sure where the confusion is.

I'll add to a few others in this useful thread. In April this year, I used the appointment system (for Immo/CW) since I have to go to a branch of the SCB bank to get my (fixed) account updated on the day (plus the annual statement, etc.). (You cannot up-date a SCB fixed account at their ATM machines -- must be a counter action.) So, I got to Immo well ahead of my 10:30 appointment. I checked to see if the lady at Desk 32 was there and not busy with another expat, and asked her (humbly) if I could be served. She was very efficient without speaking a word. So, that was done pronto, and I got my stamped extension about 30 minutes later (about 11 a.m.) Then, I went to the queue counter for the re-entry permit stamp ticket and was astounded to see a queue # of 283. They were only up to 90 or so at that time. However, with no urgent need to do the re-entry thing (and, like TGJ, not wanting to chance the airport at midnight) I said 'screw it -- I'll come again in a few days. ' Which I did, and got out of there with the re-entry stamp before 9 a.m. On the other, more irksome issue of raising the 800K baht bar,...after having lived here for 50 years, I would place my bet on our being grandfathered in. My rationale is as follows: (1) Most "legitimate" retirees in Thailand have sustained the flushing out of the ex-pats (mostly USA, UK, Australia, some Danes) who did not meet the financial requirements of the retirement extension and could not get letters from their embassies guaranteeing that they had the financial means (i.e., 65K baht/month). So, that has removed the claim of ne'er-do-wells mooching off the retirement extension scheme. (2) If Immo was bothered by the bent agents who allow ex-pats without the financials to cop a retirement extension, that is their internal problem -- not ours. (3) Regarding the bike gangs, I cannot think of another instance where the Thai government took a broad-brush approach to tar all ex-pats for the sins of a minority. But, that could be my naive wishful thinking! (4) Finally, I have trusted the majority of my Thai counterparts in the government for 50 years, and been treated fairly overall. I urge those of you who read this to do the same, and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the first-hand trip report. Those are always the most valuable posts on this part of the Forum. Have you tried the mail-in option? I did that once during the flooding in 2011 and it worked well.

If ASEAN NOW continues to allow these threads that promote corruption of Thai Immigration officers, it should be considered a rogue website. Please clean up your act, folks. There are whistleblowers around...