Mousehound
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On 25/02/2017 at 6:48 PM, Mousehound said:
Forgot to include a link to pictures of Saigon.
Click on Homer's pic above to see a photographic slideshow of Saigon
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Forgot to include a link to pictures of Saigon.
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The following are some personal observations following extensive research into Saigon and a recent visit.
On Travel arrangements:
visas are required for many, but not all Nationalities. Check it out as things change rapidly. If you need a visa then you can apply online for a visa in advance through one of the agencies. This system seems to work. You pre apply and download your application online. At Saigon airport you do to the specified desk (it is well signposted) and hand in documents and await your turn to be called. if things are busy this can take quite a long time. I chose to get my visa overseas, it was easy to get but cost an extra $20 and required two trips to the Embassy. But this suited me fine and meant no hold ups at the Saigon end. The Visa cost me $70US. There is no disembarkation card to fill in. Saigon airport is quite small - think Don Muang. The exchange places are not too bad a rate but I already had the 140 - 180 Dong required for a cab to Distict1. The best rates of exchange were to be found at the jewellers that abound in District 1, but I got a good rate from my hotel, amazingly.
On exiting the airport there are plenty of cabs but ensure you only take a Vinasun or MaiLinh. They will always put the meter on - it does not come on for the first twenty meters or so - and they often have a tablet with maps showing your progress. There is an additional 10k for the airport charge which needs to go on top of the meter reading. Money is spoken of in terms of thousands so 10 (muay) means 10k for example. I usually gave the cab driver up to 10k depending on length of travel, time of night and whether I liked them or not, but many would not accept anything over the meter amount. I also left a hat and, stupidly, my camera bag in taxis. Both found their way back to the hotel.
The natives are generally very friendly. They do not speak as much English as Thai and especially off the tourist track you can find communication a struggle. I learned enough Vietnamese to get about and buy things etc before I arrived and found it helped a lot.
In downtown Saigon the streets are wide, generally well paved and the shops and eateries etc expensive. Happy hour at The Rex's five o'clock follies (a nice once off treat for me) cost $20 for a drink but with a great view of the city and a complimentary beer chaser to my huge cocktail.
Saigon is a rapidly developing city but does not compare to BKK for size or facilities. On the other hand it has a nice feel to it. The French buildings and café heritage as well as boulevards and pastry shops give it a nice feel. Off the main drag the side walks become rapidly a minefield and scooters clutter and impede progress. Much like Thailand.
There are excellent deli type operations that stock a healthy collection of imported foodstuff for the growing and large expat contingency, most of whom seem to live in District 2. District 2 is an antiseptic self contained city filled with expats. A city of wide, well ordered streets and massive towering condominiums that sit upon every kind of familiar food outlet other than Vietnamese. If you want to live on American style fast food this is your place. there are International Schools here with a large Japanese and Korean population working with the many companies from these countries. This is an expensive part of the city to live with prices typically 1500 to 2000US a month. Property prices in Saigon are very high. A small shophouse in D1 but not in the heart of things is going to cost over a million US. So rents are high. Wages for the average worker are low at sat 150US a month for a waiter in a restaurant.
Shopping is done in districts rather than at shopping centres. One area will have every musical instrument known to man, and few more beside. The fabric market areas are huge. Whole areas are devoted to hardware - one shop sell just scissors, another screwdrivers and another the parts to make up a wrought iron fence. yet another area will be dedicated to sheet metal and another electrical.
Things to do as a tourist: The city is really a two day event with a day or so for visiting the Delta and tunnels etc. But if you are after an off the beaten track adventure, so to speak then things look up a bit. I visited quality music places every evening. They start typically at 9 and finish at midnight. Sax and Art have the owner playing from 10pm. This guy is world class on the sax. Yoko has a very solid rock band. hard Rock Café has a good Salsa night as does La Fenetre Soliel and Cuba La Casa de Mojito (twenty meters apart). There are many others and several famous duff duff techno spots such as Apocalypse now - but not to my taste. Some have a small cover charge but usually includes a drink.
On drinks - beer is cheap. Draught beers especially so. Food is OK but apart from BBQ meats I preferred Thai food. Saigon is really into sea food which does not appeal to me so much. The soup Pho is their staple street food and OK. Pho is pronounced Fur by the way as "Foe" would get you a lady of the night. The later being scarce compared to Thailand.
On double pricing: The famous Benh Than tourist (tat) markets are about twice the price you should pay for anything and I bargained them down to one third of the asking price just to see how far I could get them down. The Saigon centre markets are no better, There really is not a lot to buy there. certainly not computer or camera gear. As a foreigner you will be overcharged in the main tourist areas. Food is an exception in restaurants or street side stalls. Vietnamese pay 20% tax and expats pay 40%. I am told National Parks are free for locals but tourists pay but I have not confirmed this.
I spent a lot of time looking at buying a scooter. An old style Honda with kick start, but made in japan, can be had new for 500US and the same model (125cc) with electric start and Made in China was $550. A good proposition was a second hand one my Vietnamese friend found - a Yamaha Nuovo 135cc for 200US. No papers and I could sell it anywhere for a drop of 50 to 100 dollars depending how fast I needed to get rid of it. Repairs are ridiculously cheap there. technically you can't drive a scooter over 50cc without a license and the cops will ask for tea monies when they pick you up. You can't drive a car in VN - period. Vietnam is starting to issue it's own citizens with IDP but does not recognise them as valid for tourists. The drive out od Saigon is easy and only takes about ten minutes. The road North along the coast is lined with excellent camping sites with western style facilities and makes a nice trip. Avoid highway one at all costs. Beware your insurance will most likely not cover you for scooters.
On safety: As with all destinations I have travelled I have been warned about scams, theft, muggings and the health dangers - including every deadly disease known to man. in Saigon the locals wre repeatedly warning me agains carrying my camera and phone. I was also warned against going into the parks at night because of the drugged out holding you up at knife point. The latter could be a real possibility and certainly there are opportunistic thieves but I felt safer in Saigon than in BKK and frankly I feel pretty safe there as well.
The back packer area od Bui Vien and Pham Ngu Lao is full of even seedier specimens than Khao San and certainly not as nice as Soi Rambutri. BKK backpackers seem a better lot to me. The main hotel area is expensive so I stayed in a sort of half way area with a good large, well air-conditioned room and private bathroom for 20US a night. There are cheaper to be had for sure. This included an OK breakfast. My preference would be in or about Bui Thi Xuan. This area is well known to cab drivers, has plenty of restaurants and is within walking distance of all the sites.
Last minute thoughts: Optical is OK there but no better that Thailand and they use lens blanks from the Hoya works in Thailand anyway. I would think dental would be better in Thailand.
UBER and GRAB is big in Saigon if you want to go that way. Cheaper than taxis. They even have GRAB scooters. You can get a SIM card at the airport and download the app. Google Maps are your friend.
Can't think of much else at this point.
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On whether the cost of Visas have any effect on tourism. With the family off to Vietnam for a week I have just paid $360 AUS to the local embassy. I could have reduced this by about eighty dollars by doing a visa on arrival but still a real cost of travel. This certainly equates to a couple of nights in a decent hotel in BKK.
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I agree with the posts above. Firstly, I would not panic as getting visas and work permits means they will need your passport. But they can not hold your passport beyond this requirement. The passport is not yours but belongs to the country of issue. If you have a problem I would let them know you have to have it back. If they try to keep it you should not be working for them. Talk to your embassy and if necessary the police but I am sure you won't need to go to that level. Get two copies of the passport and any stamped pages before you hand it over. Keep one set on you and the other at your accommodation as a back up.
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2 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:
I'd like to read the source if you would link it please.
http://outbreaknewstoday.com/thailand-mosquito-borne-diseases-the-first-10-months-of-2015-2015/
Quoting B of E
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I see that in the first ten months of 2015 some 115 000 Thais were diagnosed with either Malaria or Dengue - so the fact that Thais wander around unprotected doesn't impress me in the least.
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Well I guess as an entomologist I tend to go where there are a lot of insects. But I will never be persuaded to wear shorts in CM. But then I know people that still don't wear crash helmets when on their motorbike and they have gotten away with it - so far. I don't have that kind of luck.
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7 minutes ago, Crossy said:
In Thailand, T (or no) shirt at home with knee length shorts. Put on a polo to go shopping at Tesco / Makro / market, sandals, no socks.
Long pants (with short sleeve shirt or polo) for work with socks, site boots, hi-viz, hard hat (but the PPE is probably not effective against mozzies).
We usually retreat inside before the mozzies become really active, but if we don't then the Deet spray / lotion and mozzie coils come out.
I have contracted Dengue (you really, really don't want it), but that was in Delhi where long pants and sleeves were an absolute requirement and made no difference whatever to how often you got bitten
Well it sure makes a difference how often I get bitten.
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I have a bit of a laugh with the fear of spiders and snakes in Thailand and in my home area of Australia, as although I spend a lot of time in the jungle and bush in OZ I have never had a problem from these (although commonly seen ) but Mosquitos really do concern me. They are the worlds great killer. I have many friends and family that have contracted Ross River, Dengue and Malaria. I always wear long pants and even roll down sleeves. I also soak my clothes in pyrethrum based clothing agents and wear anti moz bracelets as well as carry my own coils for under tables as I don't wear socks.
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Rain
in Chiang Mai
On 21/01/2017 at 11:48 AM, Panda13 said:
Sent from my SM-G930F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
I would if I could find one!
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Most countries work on a dual system - that is criminal and civil. Criminal is where the law of the land is involved, that is The State V XXX, and Civil is between individuals, that is Mr X V Mr Y. The police should have no interest in a civil matter unless a criminal law has been breached. If the monies are illegally obtained ie money laundering, then a contract is void, as a basic requirement of a contract is that it be deemed legal. Also there may be (as mentioned) a legal maximum interest rate that can be applied to a loan. Of course if the borrower were to have known the monies were being laundered he could be a party to an illegal act that breaches the criminal code. But best speak to a lawyer who is Thai.
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For a single guy on 30K a month it is quite doable if he is not a drinker and lives out of the big expensive cities. Chiang Mai could be OK. There is a reason the Retirement Visa requires 65K Bht a month - on that a single reasonably careful person can live pretty well, even in BKK, and very well indeed in smaller towns. I think $3000 US is not much of a backstop. Also, as mentioned before a visa would be a problem as he doesn't have sufficient funds. Most likely he should try the place out and get a job teaching English if that is feasible. That would assume he could get a work visa.
I can live quite well on 30k a month in Chiang Mai with half going on accommodation (I could save quite a lot there as well) but I own my own wheels and have good funds saved as a backstop. I just don't seem to need to spend the money.
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I agree with above posters that say try out both places. but you should also try out different places within each country. Hanoi is very different to Saigon or Hue, as BKK is form Chiang Mai or Pattaya. And there are half a dozen cities in each country you could add to the list. Vietnam is way easier to stay in regards paperwork. But it has a lot less infrastructure and medical may not be up to the standard of the better hospitals in Thailand. It also depends how you want to live if (at what standard and if you like full on nightlife) at least somewhat like the locals or need a full on western style of living. My style of living doesn't find there is much between the cost of living in either country and Vietnam is developing very rapidly which usually means increased charges. I have spent time learning Thai and have just started learning Vietnamese. I would seriously recommend you do the same. It makes a huge difference, not just because you tend to get things a bit cheaper and are less likely to be ripped off but it makes getting about and the whole experience so much richer.
Also I would recommend you see a city during the hot or rainy season rather than just in the cooler dryer months. Most cities seem nice when the weather is perfect but when the weather turns is when you really need to experience it if you are thinking of moving there permanently.
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I had planned to retire in CM but with all the hassles with visas etc - especially, it seems in CM immigration I am starting to have serious doubts. The whole set up seems to have gotten a good deal more difficult in the last years and if it keeps deteriorating I would ask myself if it was worth the effort. This is a shame as I really looked forward to living in CM. I know the city well, speak and read enough Thai to get about with no problems. I also have quite a lot of friends in CM - not all expats. I am leaving for Vietnam in a few days to start checking out the possibilities of living there, at least for a few years. So I, at least, am having second thoughts about living in Thailand. The main reason for moving to CM would be that we really like it and I have a lot of things to do to fill my day there. Can Vietnam do the same? I guess I will have to find out.
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Becoming rarer and not usually aggressive unless provoked. They do eat other snakes and the Monocled Cobra, which is far more common than the King, is most likely part of the diet as are Kraits. This is knowledge passed down to me by a herpetologist - I am no expert on snakes. Personally I am more concerned with Monocled and the White lipped Viper, which I have gotten way too close too by accident.
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You clearly have it all worked out. Have you considered that she might be better off without you?
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- Popular Post
- Popular Post
Er.... just in case the OP doesn't get it, Mrjilh is being sarcastic. Ubonjoe is one of the few on TV you can rely on to be correct. There are many threads on visas and Condo ownership etc. It is a long task wading through them but you will see there are not so many people that really know there stuff - in particular about visas - Ubonjoe, in my opinion, is the most informative and accurate poster. There are a few others that know their stuff, and a lot of posters that spread confusion and misinformation. My advice is research all you can and then just clarify anything you are unsure of.
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I regularly visited my parents there. Mostly Port Moresby. Sadly it is one of the most dangerous places I have ever visited and that includes Sudan. I felt safer walking at night in Harlem than Moresby. My folks house had ribbon wire and electric steel shutters over doors and windows a s well as an underfloor panic room. I never went anywhere without an axe or machete. I enjoyed my time there but can't recommend it, and definitely not a place to take a family.
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5 minutes ago, DrTuner said:
Upload a video to youtube and try to get it viral. Only then will any authorities bother to do their job, to save face.
Or it could draw hundreds of hoons to join in the excitement.
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1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:
Clean comfortable room versus a large house with a pool at the beach? Being confined to 1 room is not living, it is prison. Thai food 3 times a day is for paupers. If you cannot make money and can only shackle yourself into 1 room in Thailand you failed somewhere along the road in life. If people could get a decent looking, fit woman and had the money to spend to have a real life in their own country, they probably would have stayed there. I can tell you the girls in Florida put any Thai girl to shame. Or course if you are a fat old ugly prune and have to pay for someone that cannot even speak you language, then you might have a point. With North Korea coming unhinged with the missiles, Thailand might not be the best place when NK hits the red button!
I think that the missiles will be aimed at the USA not Thailand. But to the OP. If you have a good job I would agree the value in the States has to be better. if you are not insisting on living in the top areas then I would have thought it was pretty cheap there. Clothing, cars, gas and food seem incredibly cheap to me.
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They will also keep rats and snakes down so not a bad thing to have.
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On 12/08/2016 at 4:43 PM, dick dasterdly said:
What are you talking about?? Nobody has said this, unless I've missed it.
Yes you have - read all the replies.
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I find this an interesting topic. Years ago in UK the English reserve seemed to hold, and you said good morning to those you had met. But if I was out with the dogs and someone came the other way a good morning was pretty common. The only thing rude was to ignore the other person. Moving to Australia I was blown away buy everyone saying g'day. I loved it. The Ozzies were the best people in the world. Then off to the USA. here I found people thought you were going to attack them if you just spoke to someone you hadn't been introduced to. They were far less social and by my standards a rude lot. But in fact it is just their way. As soon as they realised you were a Pom or Ozzie (take your pick) they were often the most friendly of all. (Mostly NY and some LA). Nowadays I will say g'day less often than I did as I am more in tune with the modern trend that values people possibly a little less. But if I know someone, or am engaged in some activity that I am also involved in, I will acknowledge them even if it just a nod of the head. I think it has paid off over the years to make a bit of an effort to acknowledge that other people exist. Often I bump into someone and they recognise me from being out and about and saying g'day and it has helped if I need something. I guess everyone to his own, but I would say that if you feel threatened or upset or think someone is being rude for saying hello, then you have a strange outlook on life and it is your loss.
Saigon HMC some observations on the city and costs
in Vietnam General Chat
Posted · Edited by Mousehound
Incomplete sentence
Cut price opticians are cheap in Saigon but quality ones are, I found, a bit more expensive than better end Thai outlets. There are a lot of operations that sell clone frames but I prefer original and these are way cheaper than Australia and about the same as Thailand. I believe dental is good in Vietnam and my pricing seems to indicate about 25 - 35% cheaper than Thailand but I have no actual experience of dental in Vietnam so can't really compare. On the other hand I have two pairs of multi focal specs from Vietnam and three pairs form Thailand over the years. The Vietnamese pair of tinted multifocal sunnies I just got from Vietnam, with Thai made lenses are actually better than ones made in Australia.