UKresonant

I used to like the get togethers for the Thai comunity in Scotland, the Hounary Consul had a garden party at his house one year, really nice. We used the Glasgow consulate often for TR Visas before the June 2019 evisa intro. The non-O ME was / is the ideal visa, and did all my board runs by flying back to the UK . I went direct to London RTE for the non-O MEs in 2018 and 2019. Must of been an off day if you made Kay angry..

UK State Pension is for everyone who pays into the scheme, regardless of where they worked or how they were employed. Or perhaps not worked but had voluntary National insurance contributions, or credits from child benefit... (Section 40 (1) of the TH RD code does not describe this benefit perhaps....))

Yes, but likely Single Entry only, relatively recent reports say that the multiple entry Non-O ME was again no longer available, box disappeared from the e-visa site again. (Could always e-mail the RTE London in case the sands have shifted again, 100/1 against maybe) Last reference for Financials that I can confirm was May 2023 £1000 single entry (£10000 Multi-entry) Show accom booking for first couple of days. e-mail from wife confirming aware / invite visit, as Jpeg/PDF. Copy scan / pic of wife's ID or Passport. Scan of Marraige cert. All applications online British Citizen/ resident. Not been in the site for that visa type recently, but the tourist visa application has change so perhaps also the non-O. Supporting docs format:- Jpeg image files PDF files (so could be multi page) File size less than 3MB (2.8MB to be sure) Photo of yourself can use a phone and try and get it close to passport spec (does not like textured backgrounds, I use a off-white cotton sheet over a door) Payment for Visa via Kasikorn by card ( sometimes hiccups like its not worked but normally is OK after going back to the initial application listing after waiting for it to process)

Have when the wife is buying properties (the land being include) perhaps signed a form in the land office when transacting to say that it is not conjugal property? There was / is a form, no sure what its specific reference is.... The gift would be useful for everything else for receivers use and they could use their own resources for the property purchases. Same issue when your wife is getting a mortgage perhaps I remember back late 90's an aquantaince getting a mortgage at the extreme limit for her Thai salary and had to convince the bank the transaction was using her own money, (not her UK national husband's). Would be drifting into nominee territory other wise perhaps.

Headline;- Can gift up to THB 20 million to spouse (option for 5% tax). She can't use it for property purchase (most likely), and it must be a true gift. Interest on the gift will be taxable.

Sorry, the point I was trying to make was more towards the possibilities of a NT tax code so pensions and the like are not taxed at source in the UK ( recent post context and also compared with Germany, which seems more absolute perhaps ). Not sure about rental Income...from memory. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/637e192f8fa8f56eabf75e5b/Double_Taxation_Treaty_Relief_Form_DT-Individual.pdf p1 Double Taxation Treaty Relief Application for relief at source from United Kingdom (UK) Income Tax and claim to repayment of UK Income Tax For use by an individual resident of a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty that provides for relief from UK Income Tax on pensions, purchased annuities, interest or royalties arising in the UK p3 Part C To apply for relief at source from UK Income Tax, please complete Parts C.1, C.2, C.3 or C.4 as appropriate. p6 Part F I am beneficially entitled to the income from the sources included in this form or otherwise meet the conditions for relief in the double taxation treaty between the UK and my country of residence...... {comment NOT THAILAND] p7 DT-Individual Notes (from) 2. Purpose of the form DT-Individual Form DT-Individual allows you to apply under the DT treaty between the UK and your country of residence for relief at source from UK Income Tax on pensions, purchased annuities, royalties and interest paid from sources in the UK. p8 Part 😄 Application for relief at source from UK Income Tax As explained in these Notes, the UK’s DT treaties with other countries may provide for: • no UK tax to be withheld from payments of pensions and annuities • no UK tax to be withheld or a reduced rate of UK tax to be withheld, from payments of interest and royalties Give the details asked for in Part C to apply for relief at source from UK Income Tax on future payments of income. Relief at source may be available in cases where HMRC is able to exercise its discretion to issue a notice (under Statutory Instrument 1970 Number 488, as amended). We deal with each application on its merits. Where we cannot agree to allow relief at source or cannot arrange it, you can claim repayment of part or all of the UK tax taken off, as appropriate. p9 Part C.2: Work pensions and purchased annuities Enter details in Part C.2 if you receive a pension or purchased annuity from the UK. Most DT treaties provide for pensions and purchased annuities from the UK to be paid to a resident of the other country without UK tax taken off. The DT Digest gives information about whether relief from UK tax is available and if there are any special rules. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf p34 Column OTHER PENSIONS / ANNUITIES As you have said Thailand = "No relief" (Just reclaim in some circumstances)

That's probably one of the few in region good options from a tax point of view, especially with the suggested by some, that some want Thailand to perhaps move to Global taxation. UK folks even get their state pensions yearly increases there, where they don't officially in Thailand. Won't you miss the Thai food?

Yes that is true, it is not an absolute. Info for others;- There is a clause that can allow it, depending on what the tax folk decide. But generally if you have been in the UK most of your life, and have just moved to Thailand, since NT code availability may be difficult to obtain. Almost certainly UK .gov pensions no NT code. Country specific info (search for)Form 'DT-individual' and the associated DT digest 2018

Just noticed, and I think it is curious and perhaps something to consider is UK state pension does not appear to fall under Section 40 1), perhaps the US is similar? https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section40 Section 41 para 2, A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

Info;- Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer. (1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.4 4R.CT.No.29/2538 There is the other sources threshold at 60k THB But the one for section 40 is 120k THB

Yes, and additionally the suggestion that not taxed as not resident, suggests other than state pension. Most UK private pensions would normally retain tax at source in the UK even if a NoTax at source was claimed whilst being resident of Thailand. Can't get an NT code for State Pension, and no relief available. (As I understand it, excepting the discretion clause).

I've tried to find trigger amounts for inbound remittance, (I remember a thread years ago, and at that time inbound of about THB 40k that could potentiallyflag something). Could only find a threashold of 400 deposits totalling more than 2 million Baht. Every inboand must have a 'purpose' code reported, but not sure if it is individual reported or bulked up and reported to BOT.

The ones I worry about are potential tourists that stumble into being cumulatively more than 179 days (as there home country is 183 days perhaps, or got run over on a pedestrian crossing just before going to the airport on day 177) have done a large tax exempt transaction in home country, remitted proceeds to Thailand buy a condo, fund 800k plus living expenses, and by some Random chance get tax audited by Thai RD. But hopefully no one will be caught out that way... Thailand can make a fantastic first impression, which may distract from due diligence. There is still obsolete information in the WWW Probably not the objective of condo sales to flag tax concerns.

Of course the 2024 tourist will not, when under 179 days. But say that tourist has a Thai Bank account and remitted say 1M THB in 2024, and in 2025 was Tax resident spending 244 days, and did file Q1 2026 for 2025. I would anticipate that they may enquire as to why no tax filed for 2024. Especially as they only remitted THB 400k in 2025. The larger remittance in 2024 would flag, but I have no idea what the flag level is now or whether it is fixed dynamic or even random. I'm updating my 'days where' spreadsheet and will record on there days at any time as part of a day when in Thailand or non UK countries, and every day present at the end of the day for UK days. Keep boarding passes stamps etc

Yes that is about it UK Personal allowance is £12570 (still frozen at that for a few years) and I could make it more extreme by for example adding Individual savings account dividends of say £1430 per annum, on which there is no tax. So perhaps comparing £14000 which is not Taxed in the UK, against the under 65 allowance of as you say THB 201K £4600. So £9400 potentially exposed to Thai Tax where it is tax free in the UK ( unless Thai RD expand on the vague statements on If Taxed in home country and if there is a DTA, don't worry 😊) So say £24000 remitted to Thailand (and to simplify that was all income) £10000 attracting tax at 20% in the UK (So in Theory there would be a £2000 credit relief). In Thailand £24000 gross £4600 not Taxed 150k @ 5% £3333 ~ £166 tax (th) 200k @ 10% £4444 ~ £444 tax (th) 250k @ 15% £5556 ~£833 tax (th) 250k@ 20% £5556 ~ £1111 tax (th) 25% tax on £500 ~ £ 125 tax (th) So about £2680 Thai tax bill in theory you could maybe obtain £2000 credit relief for or against tax paid in UK, but how complex or simple will that be at that level if you had to employ someone, pay for it getting stamped or such like that offset would erode rapidly, not to mention time taken. So at the moment, under 65, I could only safely remit £4600 + £1600 taxed only in UK pension £6200 per annum simply? So compared with the 'remit in the following year' now defunct totally simple situation, the simple solution is for me now £6200 per annum! (definitely no tax due) To which I could add Pre-2024 savings (not easy to prove in a cash sense). Savings and earnings whilst not Thai tax resident. This is all from the perspective of always being UK Tax resident whilst overnight also having potential to have Thai Tax Residency over 179 days. (There is the 50% expense thing of pension up to 100k THB potentially) Some said their tax office said can be taxed in UK or Taxed in Thailand, along with the DTA don't worry etc but what will happen in practice Q1 2025. For full timers Thai Tax is definitely cheaper than UK tax once your at the scale of remitting more than THB 2,100,000 😐 , income

Me thinks; J) UK personal allowance irrelevant at the Thai end computation, except in DTA credit relief context, the total including the non taxed under the personal allowance (which is £12570). So the credit relief is proportional to say £32570 not just to the £20000 taxed portion above the PA. It only is legitimate in the sense that it has been through a tax process and not as tax haven non-taxed. UK £12570 allowance irrelevant Thai PA of 60kTHB + others relavent. (03:25hrs goodnight......źzzzz )

https://www.mazars.co.th/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/tax/automatic-exchange-of-information#:~:text=However%2C Thai government officials have,take place in September 2023. Do you have an OECD document dated April 2023 or later. Has it been updated at all....?

Sorry for not getting back sooner. The other 70k was my .gov UK pension, which under the DTA should only be taxed in UK.

If over the 179 days per Calendar year, so Tax Resident in Thailand;- Income up to ~21000 THB/month, no tax as £60k per annum personal allowance and 190k per annum over 65 allowance. + Then additionally to the 21k/month;- There is a 150k zero tax band, so that gives another 12500 THB/month So no tax due (overseas pensions income, age over 65), call it up to 33333 THB /month (as an easy to remember number) If there was more, apparently there is an expense deduction of 50% of pension up to 100k Baht (a greyer area maybe) but that gives another 8333 THB / month, with no tax payable, if a tax return was made. There is an ongoing debate about the TIN, so I skip that for now. ( The written over 120k, is maybe not the actual custom and practice though ) https://www.rd.go.th/english/21987.html Speculation that maybe the Tax Office managers want an expectation of a least 120k THB /per annum that is actually taxable, before is is worth issuing a TIN...) Just keep all your paperwork filed and archived ongoing, if under 33333/THB per month, actually remitted to a Thai bank. But I suppose they could say that you don't get the allowances unless you filed. so a simple yes / no is elusive...

Verbal rejection? I think a rejection in a written signed and stamped form would be lovely to have. I think I would try and put on (old) puppy eyes and show a downloaded tax residencyself declaration form, such as the HSBC form, that asks for a TIN or a reason for not having one on the form. 'Please can you give me something I can show my bank ( as my bank has a similar form ....).' If they give you something official looking something It gives a point of reference should any staff contradict later. For me the difficulty may be keeping a straight face and not skipping out the door if successful, in getting a.formal rejection.

The RTE London confirmed by e-mail, £1k non O SE, £10k for non-O ME, May 2023.

I think it is more likely to be reactionary, than in anticipation. Needs the train to hit the buffers on at least one busy inbound track in to the terminous, quick investigation and a special measure may materialise, to keep customer numbers up.. If it happens for this year relatively contained, if next year 1st quarter folks are getting pummeled for Tax, and it's worldwide media time?? will see how it goes.

I'm just trying to be optimistic, the paperwork to prove the capital principle, would also perhaps throw up the detail of the gain (even if zero rated at home)? Remitting $400k will surely trigger the alarm bells, whilst your fiscally domicile (Normally DTA Article 4) under Thai RD priority taxation. Any big transaction like that (with favorable home contry treatment) safer to be resident in home country that year. In 2018 I made sure when making pension transactions, co-incidentally in March, I delayed coming to Thailand until after the UK tax year concluded on April 5th and cumulatively was less than 180days in the calendar Thai Tax year (Returning to UK as non-O ME.. The difference between a sure thing and a debatable situation.

Is there not also a deductible of 50% of pension to a max of 100k baht ( not at PC currently to check the detail )

Perhaps the the year the income is earned whilst Thai Tax resident, is the more important. Exchange of information with home country tax authority approximate your in year income. What if;-any income arising that year is assessable as it is remitted to Thailand at anytime (161), until that total in year total is cumulatively reached. "But it can't be I spent it or at least the remainder of it, on overseas commitments in that year" 'Prove that then' Just sharing a recent nightmare