kuffki
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Posts posted by kuffki
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Will these casual labouring positions just disappear?
Of course not. And will many casual workers still work for the old established wage? Of course.
Now, this may be a new source of tea money for the enforcement squads -- which will probably come out of the casual worker's wages.
However, I don't see there being any enforcement squads -- at least not at the casual level. You want a job? Here's what I'm paying. Take it or leave it. Next in line.
Its actually much easier than that. Any company who pays social security can be checked and enforced! Because company pays social security a % of the wage, so they will know instantly if company is not paying correctly.
In other words all the "proper" company's will pay the price while little business owners will continue to pay whatever they pay(and usually they are the ones making real money and hardly ever pay any taxes)
Ever wondered how a street stool can drive a brand new 1000000 baht car
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but i still think they get minimum wage.
You mean, all those sales pukes I keep tripping over in Home Pro are getting minimum wage -- plus a commission/bonus for completed sales?
No wonder Home Pro tried once again to gouge me the other day with Dynamic Currency Conversion.
If they're making a profit with all those extraneous folks on payroll, they definitely need some additional competition in this market. Unfortunately, the mom and pop hardware stores don't have the economy of scale to compete in price. And a minimum wage mandate won't help either -- even if mom, pop, and sonny boy are part of the overhead.
yep, sadly but they do.
I know in Big C, White goods department, they are on about 9000 baht per month(unless the girl lied to me
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I had to double check for the little red satire letters , but did not see them. As someone noted, whatever minor rights you may have that are written on a piece of paper in a government office somewhere , the reality is you have none. The mindset here is pretty clear. If you are driving down the road and a Thai runs into you, the policeman at the scene will tell you it is your fault, because if you had not come here the accident would not have happened. Against this backdrop, they want to talk about foreigner rights ?? Too funny.. Hey, maybe they should have all the Thai police attend this seminar............
Not true in all cases. I pulled into a parking bay on the side of the road in Chiang Kham and a young Thai guy reversed into me, damaged my car a little but no damage to his chrome rear bar. The police arrived and although other Thai witnesses said I was to blame as I ran into the back of the Thai guy the police could see from the position of my car and the actions of the Thai Driver that this was not the case. They called the head police guy from the station who took the Thai guys details. We then went in procession to a car repair yard where my plastic bumper was unclipped/unscrewed, repositioned and re-fixed so you would not know there had been a problem. The police then insisted that the Thai driver apologised to me. The cost was waved as the Thai Driver had only 200 Baht in his wallet. He got a telling off by the police and we all went on our way. By the way I speak very little Thai and although my wife was present she is Deaf & Dumb and of little help in these situations apart from waiving her arms and jesturing what happened. The 2 kids age 2 & 3 were a help though with their big smiles and polite Sawasdee krap/kha to the police.
Your post is total and utter bs.
Police do not attend accidents unless someone is injured.
Should police arrive at the scene of an accident and no one is injured, first question they will ask is if you have insurance. If the answer is yes, they advise you to call it and leave. If the answer is no and you are a foreigner, they make you go to police station and make you pay(especially when witnesses put a blame on you)
They certainly do not call out senior officer to the scene to determine who is at fault of damaged bumper bar
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off course we have rights: the rights to spend (most of your) money, pay taxes, social security and beg each year that your stay might get extended for another 12 months
no more money (400k in the bank) or job and it's bye bye for you
even you have wife/children/condo/car/...
I think if we farang do not get any rights and threated like 2nd class citizen, our home countries would repay Thais by not allowing them to buy land, leave country if not enough $ every year on their bankaccount, have no jobs...
that would be called: EQUAL rights
You knew the rules when you sat into the game. What ever possed you to think they were going to change them.
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I don't know what country you are from but I am betting it is not easy for a Thai to get a retirement visa there. Heck just to get a visitors visa for a Thai to North America is not that easy to do.
Did you rules come attached with your retirement visa? i guess they misplaced mine when i arrived and also forgot to put one in when i registered the company
For a Thai with money or stable income is not problem to get a visa into any country.
For a Thai to retire in another country is also not a problem if he/she can show he/she has the means to support his/her self, because other countries offer same protection, rights and apply law to all citizens and tourists and expats equally.
Some countries will also pay benefits and support should one be ill, while in Thailand expat is on his own no matter what happens.
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Take big C for example where they have hundreds on staff on payroll for each store, now add approx 300 000-500 000 to their monthly wages and watch prices grow over night
Put all the sales pukes on straight commission. Those who want to pick their butts -- or give wrong answers to customers (instead of, "I'll go find out") -- would, hopefully, learn to do better. Or 'retire.'
Not sure, however, how the "minimum wage police" would deal with such a pure system of reward.
i think they already have that, this is why when you buy something like a TV, the sales person runs infront of you to give his "id card" to scan. but i still think they get minimum wage.
If not, i believe the stores will seriously struggle because most of the "sales pukes" will resign if they do not get the base, because to resign is much easier than to learn about the product they sell.
Off topic but funny. While trying to purchase a car, i asked what was the difference in 2 models, the answer was-more expansive model came with wheels. This was the only answer of difference i could get.
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another one with "extensive" knowledge of the area
Seriously boys try to see other streets besides soi 6
It's the same in most places my friend. It's not about looking in one place or not. It's not a unanimous thing but, in general, Thai tourist destinations do a pretty good job of allocating "services" to sections. I happen to live in one place where the girly bars are spread out all over rather than having a red light district, but there's nothing uncommon about red light districts for many places, Pattaya being one of them.
Also you might want to read previous posts and then you might have noticed that the ONLY thing I agreed with the other poster about was whether or not Pattaya makes a prime family destination. Other than that, if you go back and read the words, you might notice that you and I would have likely been in agreement.
So do you judge BKK by soi 4(Nana) or do you judge Phuket by Patong beach?
or Do you judge Sydney (Australia) by Kings Cross? or perhaps Amsterdam by the red light "corner"?
Again,one sees only what he wants to see.
There are millions of Russian family's who occupy Pattaya daily, no doubt you may try to call them stupid, but than when there are millions, they all can not be stupid can they?!
I live about 1 km away from Walking Street and i can assure you there are no bars, girls or katoys in my area. All my neighbors are family's with kids, and kids have the freedom to run around on the streets and do whatever they like in safe environment.
Girly bars are only in centrally located area's especially for foreign tourists. Local bars catering for locals are well hidden and can hardly be noticed.
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Each unto thier own, it is definately not the sort of place I would like to raise children in or even take them to. I guess I love and care for my children too much to take them to such a place.
Or i guess you have no idea about the region but just like to bad mouth if to fit in with a few others.
Of course raising your kids in Isaan with no education is a much better choice or perhaps raising them in BKK, covered in smoke and pollution is another way of showing love.
PS. Do you actually know any of the places i mentioned? or had your trips(if you taken any) were reserved only to soi 6 and walking street
I respect your opinion and your right to make your own lifestyle choice for yourself and family and to live where you want. That is entirely up to you. My wife and I make exactly the same choices for our family and Pattaya does not fit into our lifestyle. I am not bad mouthing the place or the families that reside there. I am simply saying it does not suit the upbringing we want for our children.
I did not question your family values, but simply asked if you visited the areas i mentioned. so the answer would be yes or a no
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Sattire is an a very good coping/avoidance mechanism. It actually helps a lot of people deal with the harsh realities of life. A lot of emergency service personell (Military, Police Ambo's) use sattire or black humour to help them deal with stressful situations. The people of Pattaya are using it in the same way and I say good on them if it helps them deal with the reality of what Pattaya really is.
That's a bit strong don't you think? It's not like you can compare a little black humor out of Pattaya to the reasons people in law enforcement, fire fighting, medical care, or military might use it. Come on now. It has its faults, but it's not a traumatizing place unless someone is the victim of a crime or something, but then that makes anywhere in the world a traumatizing place for the percentage of people who are unfortunate enough to be victimized.
It is a place that attracts a specific type of person looking for a specific type of entertainment tho. Not exactly a family holiday destination.
I agree with the family destination part, but that's beginning to go for Thailand in general with the ever increasing numbers of girly bars and Kathoeys in most tourist destinations. A minority of spots are left that don't have the Babylon thing going on.
another one with "extensive" knowledge of the areaSeriously boys try to see other streets besides soi 6
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any words of condemnation from the "usual" freedom fighters?
i did not think so
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Each unto thier own, it is definately not the sort of place I would like to raise children in or even take them to. I guess I love and care for my children too much to take them to such a place.
Or i guess you have no idea about the region but just like to bad mouth if to fit in with a few others.
Of course raising your kids in Isaan with no education is a much better choice or perhaps raising them in BKK, covered in smoke and pollution is another way of showing love.
PS. Do you actually know any of the places i mentioned? or had your trips(if you taken any) were reserved only to soi 6 and walking street
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I really have a lot of respect for the labor movement here. They had the guts to demand a solid minimum wage.
On the other hand, in america(where I come from), they feel like they owe it to the rich just to have a job. Idiots. Is it any wonder they are constantly whining about not having enough money to pay the bills and the inequality widening?
So who do they owe it to? if not the rich who open business and employ them
Also perhaps you have not caught up yet but it WAS NOT the labor movement who had the guts but the balloting party who wanted to win votes at any expense
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Not sure about others but my minimum what I pay is 7500
I do not think I could find anyone work for 4000 and would not pay that because thats ridiculously low.
9 hour days, 6 days per week
I have a couple questions to those foreigners paying Thai's the minimum wage.
1. How much do you pay your staff per month?
2. How many hours do they work for that salary.
The lowest minimum salary in Thailand I believe is THB 151 per day and to my calculations based on a 6 day working week equates to THB 3624 per month !!
In Phuket I believe the minimum salary is THB 204 per day which equates to THB 4896 per month
In my opinion this is nothing but slave labour!
In that case the new minimum wage will not effect your business as you already pay MORE than the new minimum wage.
I don't think it will effect many businesses South of Bangkok unless they own a sweat shop up North.
Indeed it would also be impossible to find workers here in Pattaya for THB 4000 per month, even Illegal Burmese workers get 6000.
I agree it is ridiculously low and that's with a 6 day week and not 5 like the west.
Incorrect! the new minimum wage would be 9000 per month compared to 7500(what i pay now) to make my staff more appreciated and go in line with the pay rise, i would need to pay them 11000. So thats almost double to my wage expense.
plus the useless ones now would be up to 9000, so total monthly wages would double, no choice but to either fire half or put up the prices-same will be in all other businesses.
Take big C for example where they have hundreds on staff on payroll for each store, now add approx 300 000-500 000 to their monthly wages and watch prices grow over night.
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Sattire is an a very good coping/avoidance mechanism. It actually helps a lot of people deal with the harsh realities of life. A lot of emergency service personell (Military, Police Ambo's) use sattire or black humour to help them deal with stressful situations. The people of Pattaya are using it in the same way and I say good on them if it helps them deal with the reality of what Pattaya really is.
That's a bit strong don't you think? It's not like you can compare a little black humor out of Pattaya to the reasons people in law enforcement, fire fighting, medical care, or military might use it. Come on now. It has its faults, but it's not a traumatizing place unless someone is the victim of a crime or something, but then that makes anywhere in the world a traumatizing place for the percentage of people who are unfortunate enough to be victimized.
It is a place that attracts a specific type of person looking for a specific type of entertainment tho. Not exactly a family holiday destination.
One sees what he wants to see.
Walking Street and soi 6 are not family destinations, but what is your problem with Cosy Beach? Wongamat Beach, Jomtien Beach, Jomtien Na and all other areas not related to red light district? You are aware all mentioned and more are part of Pattaya
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Min. wage needs to be raised but it would cause havoc to the economy to raise it this much in one swoop of the pen. This would be approx. doubling it in many regions in Thailand. Doing this would also cause the cost of living to rise in areas where it is significantly less than in the cities. Older folks and others on fixed incomes would be hurt.
Stop the mass migration from rural areas to Bkk=Pattaya. Having a 2 tier wage structure is wrong, persons going for the larger minimum wage finds it is swallowed up by the higher costs of living. 1 flat rate nationwide, maybe then you may get the migration back from the favoured places to the home towns, and invest in more local trades instead of relying solely on rice and sugar cane.
When you get the locals finding the costs of city life compared with the wages,THEN YOU GET PERCENTAGES going into the sex trade to get more money. Prevention better than cure. I know vast amounts of people who initially went away to Bkk for more money, and found after they had paid their dues were no better off that rural work. And so many people complain about some of them seeking seedier employment, They have choices we know but the lure of bigger money is too tempting for some.
It is not abnormal in every country to having differing pays if there is different costs of livings. It is common for large companies base pay on cost of living in a particular area. So, people doing the same job don't necessarily make the same.
Agreed Nisa, but it will be interesting if the min-wage is 300 bht (9000) per month, there could be less working in the sex trade, as now with the tourism hitting rock bottom not many boys and girls are earning that a month.
If you ask around there are not many bar persons getting 2 customers per week 1k each=it being 8000 per month and they have to pay for a room, hence it's cheaper on the farm at home with no room to pay.
You may find that bar girls or boys are not interested in a job no matter what it paid.
They are not interested in getting up early or having any kind of responsibility.
On the contrarily to what many here believe they do not "take care" of the family and most money earned is wasted on clothing and toys.
Family be lucky to get 5000 baht every month, usually its more like 2000-3000. I am talking in general terms of course and there are exceptions.
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Not sure about others but my minimum what I pay is 7500
I do not think I could find anyone work for 4000 and would not pay that because thats ridiculously low.
9 hour days, 6 days per week
I have a couple questions to those foreigners paying Thai's the minimum wage.
1. How much do you pay your staff per month?
2. How many hours do they work for that salary.
The lowest minimum salary in Thailand I believe is THB 151 per day and to my calculations based on a 6 day working week equates to THB 3624 per month !!
In Phuket I believe the minimum salary is THB 204 per day which equates to THB 4896 per month
In my opinion this is nothing but slave labour!
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I could call you a name but am afraid it's agaist board rules.
Your understanding of business or locals is of a 5 year old child
A 1 by 1 ice cream shop does not need 4 staff and yet some how there us still a wait. Just like 20 room hotel does not need 4 reception if staff had even half a brain or desire to perform .
From your master expertise ever wondered why in home pro or home art have more staff than customers??
Please familirise yourself with country and it's habits before trolling all over the board., preferably personal experience and not what your wife told you.
As I said it was on another thread where you claimed 21 employes and you on this thread say you can get along with one third of the employs you have 7 is one third of 21. I did not say what was needed for your business I suggested you personally could use a course in management. That was based on the facts you have given here.
Further more if you claim one thing on one thread I would suggest you use the same fact on all the different threads you post on.
I got a new pair of reading glaess last week but I do not need them to recegnize a Thai basher when I see one.
Mate, seriously come back to reality! where did i say 1/3? or all the other dribble you coming out with?Please stop imagining things or making things up.
Considering that you have problems just reading simple words black on white, i seriously doubt you are more capable of seeing anything else any better.
suggest you read your post number 33 on this thread.
Here is a excerpt from it.
"I have 3 times the needed staff because they simply do not care, raising their wage will not make them work or care any more or harder, all it will do is cost me more money but than i will fire half of them."
You dribble on all over the boards and then forget what you have said suggest you take a course in memory also.:jap:
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As I said it was on another thread where you claimed 21 employes and you on this thread say you can get along with one third of the employs you have 7 is one third of 21. I did not say what was needed for your business I suggested you personally could use a course in management. That was based on the facts you have given here.
Further more if you claim one thing on one thread I would suggest you use the same fact on all the different threads you post on.
I got a new pair of reading glaess last week but I do not need them to recegnize a Thai basher when I see one.
Mate, seriously come back to reality! where did i say 1/3? or all the other dribble you coming out with?Please stop imagining things or making things up.
Considering that you have problems just reading simple words black on white, i seriously doubt you are more capable of seeing anything else any better.
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We stuck the pay up for the few relevant staff already - before the election infact as it was obvious it was coming and keeping staff morale high is important. It seemed the right thing to do and wont be passed on to customers as it just knocks a small amount off of profit.
small? say if you have 10 staff on minimum wage, thats an extra 1000 per day.
have a few uni graduates thats another 10000-20000 per month
If you also have a few who are above the minimum wage, also would need to put up their wage.so the extra cost could easily be up to 100 000 baht per month for a medium size business
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Your wasting your time jayboy knows they were voted in by a minority. But that is a fact that does not fit in with his ideas so just change it.
You are correct, and I apologise for the error.
What of course I meant to say is that the PTP won a very clear election victory and as such has a mandate from the Thai people.
As to the minimum wage as I have pointed out already the financial brains behind the Democrat government, Khun Korn, is entirely in agreement with the concept.So far no comment on this from the sceptics.I am tempted to say this doesn't fit in with their ideas so just ignore it.
Personally i do not see the difference who came up with the idea PTP, KGB, FBI CIA or anyone else.
My only concern is a jump to 300 baht, for some provinces its almost double.
If as an employer i was to get something back, sure make it 500 per day, but just pay higher minimum wage and receive same result really does not make much sense, not to mention really does not help developing 3rd world country who is competing against others in the region.
Do you really think the giants will stick around if their costs will sky rocket? the moment the cost of doing business becomes more than the cost of moving, they will be gone in a week leaving thousands unemployed.
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While the intentions of some people here is noble, many need to try to own and run business in Thailand and i do not mean just internet "i have a business"
I own some hotels, and i can tell you, some people come for job interview in boxer shorts, without a shower, un-brushed hair, dirty cloths etc.
Some staff simply come to work and sit there doing nothing, and when i say nothing i mean NOTHING.
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1 housekeeper i had, it took her 6 hours to clean 1 room and mind you she was on double the minimum wage.
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I have written out point by point instructions on what needs to be done daily and still same employees do nothing. Some can not even answer the phone.
And some here believe those should get a pay rise? if anything, their pay should be half.
There is no work ethics in Thailand, no loyalty or desire to succeed especially when it come to unskilled labor.
( I disagree on this issue won't go into a lot of details though but getting people who will be loyal and have desire to work with your company can be done )
I have 3 times the needed staff because they simply do not care, raising their wage will not make them work or care any more or harder, all it will do is cost me more money but than i will fire half of them.
I have to wonder on that final note if you had a high expectation of your staff and that Maybe you haven't found the right successful way of getting your staff to do things. Don't try to use western management style with thai people it doesn't work
Yes, i am sure its my lack of management and whatever else, this is why car sales have no idea what they selling, electronics sales have no idea about the products and every second foreigner and tourist complains about lack of service, all those businesses must be under bad management, because staff are just full of energy/initiative and desire.
When it comes to dealing with unskilled and uneducated workforce to find a decent employee is like diamond in the rough.
I can say i have 5 staff who are excellent in every sense of the word and they do not need to worry about minimum wage because they already get more. while the rest do not even deserve 200 baht per day, if anything they should be charged for the food and drinks they consume-because this is all they do
High expectation?! i do not think so.,i never thought that answering the phone could be a challenge for someone or to turn the lights off/on is a big task.
I could care less about the car sales people, electronic sales people etc I can only focus on my business alone and giving my customers the service they expect, its those company's fault that their staff are like that and they choose not to do anything.
i am sure in your opinion your business is the best, shame its not your opinion that counts.
I am sure all mentioned also believe their business is providing an excellent service
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While the intentions of some people here is noble, many need to try to own and run business in Thailand and i do not mean just internet "i have a business"
I own some hotels, and i can tell you, some people come for job interview in boxer shorts, without a shower, un-brushed hair, dirty cloths etc.
Some staff simply come to work and sit there doing nothing, and when i say nothing i mean NOTHING.
( about the part of the job interview I've seen quite a few times of this as well )
1 housekeeper i had, it took her 6 hours to clean 1 room and mind you she was on double the minimum wage.
( had a similiar experience but let this person go after the first day )
I have written out point by point instructions on what needs to be done daily and still same employees do nothing. Some can not even answer the phone.
And some here believe those should get a pay rise? if anything, their pay should be half.
There is no work ethics in Thailand, no loyalty or desire to succeed especially when it come to unskilled labor.
( I disagree on this issue won't go into a lot of details though but getting people who will be loyal and have desire to work with your company can be done )
I have 3 times the needed staff because they simply do not care, raising their wage will not make them work or care any more or harder, all it will do is cost me more money but than i will fire half of them.
I have to wonder on that final note if you had a high expectation of your staff and that Maybe you haven't found the right successful way of getting your staff to do things. Don't try to use western management style with thai people it doesn't work
I am wondering about his business. On another thread he claimed to have just 21 employes now he has more than one hotel and claims he needs only needs 7 to run it all.
Western or Thai managerial skills make no difference I would suggest he take a course in management. Must be pretty high room rates to support that kind of staff.
I wonder where you getting your facts from? surely can not be from here, dare to say from your .......
Point out where i said 7, 21 and where i said what is needed for my business
I would suggest you take some reading classes
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While the intentions of some people here is noble, many need to try to own and run business in Thailand and i do not mean just internet "i have a business"
I own some hotels, and i can tell you, some people come for job interview in boxer shorts, without a shower, un-brushed hair, dirty cloths etc.
Some staff simply come to work and sit there doing nothing, and when i say nothing i mean NOTHING.
( about the part of the job interview I've seen quite a few times of this as well )
1 housekeeper i had, it took her 6 hours to clean 1 room and mind you she was on double the minimum wage.
( had a similiar experience but let this person go after the first day )
I have written out point by point instructions on what needs to be done daily and still same employees do nothing. Some can not even answer the phone.
And some here believe those should get a pay rise? if anything, their pay should be half.
There is no work ethics in Thailand, no loyalty or desire to succeed especially when it come to unskilled labor.
( I disagree on this issue won't go into a lot of details though but getting people who will be loyal and have desire to work with your company can be done )
I have 3 times the needed staff because they simply do not care, raising their wage will not make them work or care any more or harder, all it will do is cost me more money but than i will fire half of them.
I have to wonder on that final note if you had a high expectation of your staff and that Maybe you haven't found the right successful way of getting your staff to do things. Don't try to use western management style with thai people it doesn't work
Yes, i am sure its my lack of management and whatever else, this is why car sales have no idea what they selling, electronics sales have no idea about the products and every second foreigner and tourist complains about lack of service, all those businesses must be under bad management, because staff are just full of energy/initiative and desire.
When it comes to dealing with unskilled and uneducated workforce to find a decent employee is like diamond in the rough.
I can say i have 5 staff who are excellent in every sense of the word and they do not need to worry about minimum wage because they already get more. while the rest do not even deserve 200 baht per day, if anything they should be charged for the food and drinks they consume-because this is all they do
High expectation?! i do not think so.,i never thought that answering the phone could be a challenge for someone or to turn the lights off/on is a big task.
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The most sensible option in my opinion would be to raise minimum wage in proportion with inflation. ie if inflation is at 5%, raise minimum wage by 5% and not to the same level across all country but respectively for each province.
One is still left with an inadequate minimum wage. The fact remains that the current minimum wage is inadequate.
Just like any other country in the world.
I can see you've not Travelled extensively Tuffty, sorry, Kufti whatever .
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300 baht is less than the minimum Hourly wage in places like Britain.
OK, you can't compare like for like but with inflation , especially food inflation 300 baht goes nowhere. Its just about enough to feed a Family. It probably buys what 150 baht did a couple of years ago. I really feel the Poor here are becoming Poorer.
Failure to implement this could really lead to some serious Social unrest IMNSHO.
Minimum wage is enough to feed 1 person in any country in the world. Did you want Thai unskilled labor get minimum wage to be enough to buy BMW and take yearly holidays to Bahamas.
Are you a Thai Business person Kuffi ? With a BMW maybe ? ...... I think the minimum wage covers a few other things too. No. let them starve. throw some more chemicals at them too so they can't forage off the land as much as they used to .
1. If you can not read, then just copy/paste. The name is K U F F "K" "I"
Yes i am a business person in Thailand and yes i do work double if not triple the hours of staff and yes i do have education and skills and no i do not own a BMW, I own what is within my means.
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another one with "extensive" knowledge of the area
Minimum Wage Proposal Causing Great Anxiety
in Thailand News
Posted
hmmm, why do you have 24 day? month has 4.3 weeks so its more like 26 days.
My calculations are based on the fact that all my staff are on salary and have a paid day off, so in fact it is 9000 baht.
Now if my new minimum is 9000 but now i am paying 30% more, that means i would need to pay 30% more on 9000 making it 11700.
As i said its almost a double from 7500.