Jump to content

Kitsch22

Member
  • Posts

    251
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Kitsch22

  1. Kitch2

    I am sorry to say your wife will never understand the meaning of Political Correctness,not because you have not made your best effort to explain,but because it is not in their culture or nature.

    PC primarily means having regard to the feelings of others so that you do not offend them,Thais do not have this ability to understand.

    That is not what "PC" means. If it meant that, then it would accurately translate as "Kreng Jai". But an essential element of PC is hypocrisy, which has nothing whatsoever to do with Kreng Jai.

    Consider my recent experience having lived in Thailand for 7 years and being heartily sick of the word Farang having heard it on average 5 times a day, Its Racialist and they well know it.

    Now please dont all jump in and give your explanations as to the fact it came from the French in Laos and at least 3 other countries blah blah.

    The etymology is unimportant. What are the important factors are meaning, common usage and the intention of the user. "Farang" means Caucasian and has no exactly congruent synonym within the Thai language. There is no pejorative connotation at all and your contrary perception simply shows that you do not understand the Thai language as well as you think you do. You think that it means "foreigner", but you are wrong. When you say "racialist" you are actually right, but it is clear that you think "racist" and complain accordingly. The use of the word "Farang" by a Thai is nether politically correct nor politically incorrect.

    Here is the example,one week back in the UK and I found myself in Thai female company, the gist of the conversation was intermitten with Falang falang falang (sic).

    So I spoke to the most vocal one and explained to her that the use of the word Farang was offensive to most Foriegners in your country,and now you are in my country you must be the Farang and not me. She replied "oh no I can never be Farang I am Thai" and no amount of argument would convince her otherwise.

    This also happened with my ex Thai Teacher Girfriend and her reply was the same"I can never be Falang (sic)I am Thai"

    So try the acid test on your Thai wife or Girlfriend and ask them the question: If you come back to my country will you be the Farang? if not then dont keep mentioning the word in my company.

    But that would be as inappropriate and silly as me suggesting that you might become a black if you were to visit Africa.

    This same Thai female in the UK also came up with a new slant on the old chestnut "Englishman him Butterfly no good he dont look after wife or children" sound familiar guys to your time in Thailand with the first word replaced with Thaiman.

    Sorry if I have gone around the houses here but no Kitch22 a Thai has no hope of grasping the concept of Political Correctness.

    On that last single line of your post, I suspect that I may finally be forced to agree with you.

  2. So Meung would be like me yelling "Hey You" to someone???

    Worse. If used to a stranger it would come off as 'I want to pick a fight with you by addressing you with the most impolite pronoun there is to use for a stranger'.

    Agreed; very much worse. I cannot think of any circumstances in which it is actually appropriate for a Farang to use the expression "Meung". I attempted to use it a few times many years ago and was told by a couple of Thais whose judgement I respect that I was doing myself no favours and that there were much better ways of demonstrating my proficiency in the local language.

    During the last several years I have used the word (and its counterpart "Kuu") only in conversation with (a) my computer and (B) mosquitoes and other biting insects. My wife agrees that those usages are innocuous and do no worse than to confirm my position as a harmless eccentric.

    It is important to appreciate that as a Farang you can never be a Thai and there are certain situations (and this is one of them) in which close and accurate emulation of a Thai is not necessarily the right course. My wife might very occasionally use "Meung"" during a heated argument with a sibling when nobody else was present except for family members, but it would never ever be right for me to do so even though I am (now, at last) a family member. I am a Farang, you see. And hence, even though "one of the family", not ever "one of them".

    My answer to the original question of the OP is: "Khun [Name] Khrap" is never wrong because "too polite" is an oxymoron.

  3. The Thais are very PC - that's why we hear 'farang' all the time when out and about.

    Funnily enough I would have thought it v rude back in the West to keep referring to someone as 'a foreigner' in their presence - but that's just me being stupidly sensitive - I'm far more PC now.

    Not a PC issue. The dislike of a few farangs for the word "farang" has been done to death many times. I find it no more offensive to call a farang a farang than to call a Thai "that Thai guy". Do it myself all the time if I do not know the farang's name or if I know that the person to whom I am speaking does not know the farang's name. Although it would obviously be politically incorrect for me to call a spade a spade. Unless I were talking to a Thai, when it would then be okay.

  4. Please excuse me if this is perhaps a little too comical, and I will try to think of more suitably serious replies as they come along, but today for lunch, I was lucky to have a good example to follow in learning how to eat my first KFC burger gai with a knife and fork.

    I see now how barbaric I must have looked at A&W yesterday. It's actually less greasy on the fingers to eat KFC the civilised way. :P

    Thanks for posting, I am sure the Thai will not mind eating KFC with fork and knife. I myself will do the same. Less work and I save money to buy wipe paper for my hand??? Let's hear more opinion then I will inject my comment later...Merry Christmas...and Happy New you 2010...

    Indeed SeanMoran paints an evocative picture. But it's not really what I mean by "Political Correctness". I had in mind something exhibiting more the grotesque hypocritical and ignorant trappings of the incident in the States where a man lost his job because he used the word "niggardly".

    So far nobody (including myself) has come up with an example from Thailand and I am beginning to doubt that any exist. How very sensible of the Thais!

  5. Let's exercise a little care. There is a difference between being beaten and being hit on the hand with a ruler.

    In the OP's case, it seems that the hit was enough to cause some physical discomfort, not to mention some psychological distress as well.

    If something causes neither discomfort nor distress, then can it properly be described as "punishment"?

    Part of my difficulty here is following the OP in his jump from "smack on the hand with a ruler" to "handicapped for life".

  6. Two posts have been deleted and further flaming is going to bring warnings.

    Corporal Punishment is against the law in schools in Thailand. The topic title is a question. It's always a good idea to read the OP, not just the headline.

    My Copy of the Penal Code is a bit out of date but appears to indicate an offence only where the punishment causes "injury". Presumably there has been new legislation; could you point me to it please, before I go telling the local headmaster that he and his staff are a bunch of criminals.

    Still can't see anything in the OP on the subject of "Verbal Punishments", though, whether questioning or otherwise.

  7. The type of punishment used by both parents and teachers will vary greatly. In Thailand the use of corporal punishment is not allowed, although it is still widely used. Having ones child punished by a teacher for a minor infraction or no infraction can be very uncomfortable for both the child and the parents. It is also an emotional subject.

    Let's stay on topic and let's keep from using unnecessarily inflammatory language.

    As the topic is "Verbal Punishments", it seems that the entire thread has been off topic.

    When you say "corporal punishment is not allowed", do you mean that it is illegal? If it is not illegal, then in what sense is it "not allowed"?

    If you are right (and it is illegal) then the position of the OP is much better justified than I had thought. And I had perhaps better have a word with the headmaster at our local school.

    For the record, I think that restrained and proportionate corporal punishment can have a place within the education system.

  8. My child has a cold (docters notice from the hospital is at the headmasters office) and is not permitted to swim.

    So you foresaw the potential problem and took appropriate action but were let down by a failure within the headmaster's office to take the necessary consequent steps. Is that a fair summary?

    Not really.

    My child is taking every day the clothes, books and other items that are needed for that day to school.

    In case of sickness or other problems that would prevent her erom attending one or more classes, she ALWAYS has a medical or another kind of attest to prove that she is/was not able to attend the classes.

    Nothing foreseen.

    Just followed the rules.

    The headmaster has about 500 children every day under her care.

    If only 10% of them report an illness or another problem, this would mean that 50 children cannot attend some classes and that about 26 teachers need to be made aware of the problem.

    And every day, 50 students would have a complaint.

    An almost impossible task.

    But the teachers SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to use corporal punishments without bringing this to the attention of the parents.

    Purely as an aside, do you happen to know whether or not your daughter told the swimming teacher that she was under medical orders not to swim?

    Weither she has told the teacher or not makes no difference as I have not been made aware that the school allows corporal punishments.

    Beside this, my daughter was not the only one to have received the corporal punishment.

    Purely as an aside,

    If YOUR child is "beaten" tomorrow by a teacher and would be handicapped for the rest of his life.

    Are you happy wth this and the idea that he/she would not be beaten up by the teacher if he had said that he/she was sick?

    I think not.........

    After all, if the teacher hits a nerve or another vital organ of a 7 year old child with his metal ruler, the child could be handicapped for the rest of his live.

    While one inevitably has every sympathy for your daughter's position, I find that I do not have much for yours.

    You consider irrelevant the issue whether or not the teacher who imposed the punishment was aware that your daughter had a valid excuse. Any reasonable person would recognize that it was highly relevant.

    It is evident by inference that you did not ascertain the disciplinary policy and procedures of the school in question before you enrolled your daughter. Now you are in a situation in which you must either accept the status quo or alternatively move her to another school. Or (as a further and more radical alternative) move to another country where corporal punishment of children is illegal, which appears to be what you really want.

  9. The (negative comment edited out) , Sorry teacher probly has not grasped that the poor child's family do not have money to buy swim costumes,Times are hard at the moment ,

    My child has a cold (docters notice from the hospital is at the headmasters office) and is not permitted to swim.

    So you foresaw the potential problem and took appropriate action but were let down by a failure within the headmaster's office to take the necessary consequent steps. Is that a fair summary?

    Purely as an aside, do you happen to know whether or not your daughter told the swimming teacher that she was under medical orders not to swim?

  10. State school or private?

    Is this the first time you realised that your child is in a school in which corporal punishment of pupils is permitted?

    Do you know how many years have passed since corporal punishment of children by teachers was made illegal in your country of origin?

  11. This question is not intended to have any connection with the recent thread referring to excessive PC among farangs/expats/TV members.

    Please understand that I am not enquiring here about Thai laws and traditions against lese majeste, nor the Thai cultural attribute "kreng jai" nor anything of a equivalent nature.

    I am seeking real life examples - something like the appointment of an Akha to the board of Thai Airways or a political party putting forward as a matter of policy a "women only" list of candidates in an election or somebody being fired from their job for using an expression like "katoey" or something similar. I have been unable to think of any actual instances from my own experience in Thailand.

    The motivation for the question is that I have failed hopelessly in my attempts to explain in Thai to my wife (who speaks only limited and basic English) what the expression "political correctness" really means.

  12. But it could be that I see things differently as I'm in my early 30's and still able to attract a girl without using $, I guess if I was old, bald and fat then I would need to pay for sex too.

    Then my guess is that you must be (a) able to speak the language and (B) resident for long enough to offer the prospect of a relationship of greater than one or two nights' duration. The average SWM tourist meets neither of those two criteria and so a transfer of cash is available as an alternative which both parties to the liaison find acceptable. Perfectly harmless (if not positively symbiotic), provided that the individuals involved are careful and treat each other kindly.

  13. That merely demonstrates that you have no grasp of the esprit of rhyming slang. If you do not understand it, be careful when discussing it, lest your ignorance leaves you looking like a bit of a berk.

    Sorry, to ruffle any feathers or to insult anyone's cultural heritage, but, I would place "rhyming slang" in the same trash can as Ebonics or "jive" for African Americans.

    Are you sure that you are still allowed to say that sort of thing about the traditions and values of your darker-skinned American brethren? As for us Brits I doubt that any feathers will have been ruffled. More a case of water off a duck's back. We are accustomed to being rebuffed when we attempt to educate the 'Merkins

    As far as I can tell, they are crude slang dialects that were created by and for ignorant criminals in order to confuse the police.

    That is what is usually claimed but it is a theory which depends upon a very pessimistic assumption concerning the language-learning abilities of the constabulary of the day.

    I much prefer the King's English like they used to speak on the BBC.

    If you have a clear recollection of BBC broadcasting pre-1953, then you have the advantage of me.

  14. So when the Brits call US citizens "Septics" I call them Shitish. :hit-the-fan::P

    Sorry but you are way out. There is noting rude or derogatory about using the ryming sland term "septics" Where are the moderators. I do take offence the your name calling though that is most certainly rude and offensive.

    Advice though plainly obvious to anyone reading would be to look in the mirror

    You may report me. 'Rhyming slang' is no excuse for "Septic" even if it rhymes. Even if it's ryming sland. There might be a rhyming slang for "Ni**er" but it's still received as an insult by blacks. Speaking of looking in the mirror...

    That brief response contains two separate elements which puzzle me:

    1. Is the expression "Yank" considered offensive and, if so, why?

    2. If the expression "Nigger" is offensive (which, usually, it obviously is), then why should the expression "Ni**er" be deemed inoffensive?

  15. I still buy in King Power but I do make sure that I never venture outside the shop boundaries unless I have the fresh purchase receipt in my hand.

    Caveat emptor, & shoplifters too - whether they mean to be one or not ;-(

    Screwed.

    The meaning of the phrase 'caveat emptor' is:- "that buyers must take responsibility for the quality of goods that they are buying".

    It means nothing of the sort - those words are just your spin. "Caveat emptor" means "Let the buyer beware" plain and simple. It is a warning, not an assignment of responsibility.

    Not directed at you on a personal basis, but people should not introduce foreign words/phrases into English language conversation without first understanding their original meaning.

    Nor should people post false translations! Motes and beams in this instance, I am afraid.

  16. Innocent until proven guilty and I'll go along with that premise, and so should we all. Having read some comments about this couple I am sure it is a good thing that the death penalty was abolished (save for certain offences still on statute) in the UK and that certain contributors to this topic are not sitting as High Court Judges.

    Which "certain offences still on statute", please? I was under the impression that (unlike Thailand where capital punishment is enthusiastically retained) UK finally and absolutely abolished the death penalty in 1999 when we signed on to the Sixth Protocol to the ECHR. (I use the expression "we" figuratively - the people were not consulted)

    I am particularly interested in case your reply may provide a means whereby we can lawfully string up Blair and Brown after the next election.

  17. We know the Thai way and it can be done in Phiphi some gays like to make some extra, but better to follow the law first.

    Follow the law first? No; expensive and not much fun. I think your idea of setting the gays on him is much better. Make his eyes water and teach him a lesson he will not forget. Indeed, it might prove to be a life-changing experience for him.

  18. Very tragic situation. Condolences to the family.

    Has similarities with the murder of Gary Poretsky in Chiang Mai last year. I hope the <snip> Chiang Mai where the Australian murderer received a sentence of only four years which was then cut in half because he pleaded guilty and made a show payment of compensation to the supposed girlfriend of the victim.

    I'd like to know which country has a visa system such as Kitsch22 describes? Certainly not the US. Only a few weeks ago the news was that the US didn't know how many or where their over-stayers were. To describe all people addicted to drugs as "scum" shows the writer has a poor understanding of the word addiction. Better get an education on the issue first Kitsch22.

    How much education do I need to despise (as being lower than an animal) a person who voluntarily and illegally puts himself into a state in which he commits a brutal murder? "Drug addict" does not necessarily equate to "scum" in every case, but usually (and obviously) it does. Your suggestion that I have stated to the contrary is simply false. It is my (probably forlorn) hope that the murderer in this case will receive exactly the same treatment and sentence as would a Thai offender. If only!

    And for the avoidance of doubt I do not hold up the UK or US immigration control systems as being anything save as examples of disaster. We too (UK I mean) allow in the scum of the earth - and then let them gain citizenship after a few years. Madness! The Thais guard their citizenship jealously, and they are quite right. Where they have been less on target is in allowing their country to become an available repository for the detritus of the West. They should use the visa system as a possible means of limiting the numbers of these farang insults to humanity who are continuing to invade their shores.

  19. Classic indeed to make a sweeping generalization on foreign males yet most likely has no idea about the OP & his personal life. I feel the OP was trying generate comment on not only the morally correct thing to do in this stuation but also the sensible way to handle it. If the attacker all of a sudden pulled a knife & started stabbing the girl would you just advise all foreigners to just walk away & forget about this so called domestic dispute. To me your comments indicate an inferiorority complex & racism. Unless it is self defence, males assaulting females is a despicable & cowardly act & the great thing which has come out of the discussion is knowing about the reliable 1300 helpline service which should be made more widely known.

    Let me suggest an alternative scenario: Japanese visitor to South London (speaking no or no adequate English) witnesses a similar scene. He can do what? Attempt to ring the Police or a helpline on which he will not be understood (as the OP did); he can attempt to intervene (and seriously risk death or bodily injury) or he can walk away. The Japanese are a pretty sensible bunch on the whole; they are not afflicted with the notion that they are as individuals entitled as of right to intervene in the lives of others whom they do not know nor understand. I think we can safely trust him to do the right thing.

  20. RIP.....sad story. One wonders what kind of crazed people running around here. Would be interesting to know on which Visa the killer stays in Thailand...

    Why do you ask such a silly question? A killer with or without a visa, what does it matter.

    Disagree. Nothing silly about that question. The visa system should be capable (and if it isn't, then why not?) of acting as some kind of a filter to assist, even if only slightly, in excluding drug-addicted scum from the country. Another question for every farang who knew the putative murderer and was aware of the addiction is why they tacitly accepted his criminal activity which has led to such tragic consequences. One can only feel great regret and sympathy for the family and friends of the victim, but if we do nothing to stop the next such incident, then that sympathy is practically worthless.

×
×
  • Create New...