The confusion throughout this thread stems from conflating mere “whinging” with rational “frustration/opinions” and the understandably different respective responses they invoke. Let’s clarify.
What the “frustration” here is usually missing is any goal of attaining a resolution or remedy for the poster himself. And it's usually over something trivial of the sort we all have to deal with from time to time.
We're talking effective remedy. The remedy of changing Thailand isn’t a remedy but a fantasy. No, Thai authorities pay no attention whatsoever to complaints and brilliant solutions given on the forum no matter how many there are. Never have. Ain’t gon’ be no free beer & pussy, no waivers of passport checks, no permanent visa on arrival, no price ceiling of 100 baht on everything. Change will always be a constant.
Hence to try to justify a whinge by pretending it may make some difference to anything is self-serving nonsense.
Whinging over Immigration issues usually arises from the numerous folks’ own failures to
Manage unrealistic expectations: it’s going to be whatever it’s going to be, not what you think it should be;
Find out in advance all the requirements needed at a particular outpost of bureaucracy;
Not dwell on irrelevances such as whether they like the requirements and what the requirements should be, if any (ideal would be none, with free beer);
Meet all the requirements without offering up unnecessary complications;
Create circumstances for yourself in which meeting the requirements won’t cause undue stress;
Present respectful appearance and pleasant manners at all times;
Have a patient, non-judgmental, friendly attitude, and be prepared to occupy themselves contentedly during waiting time;
Not complain to the IOs about anything unless you have the regulations in hand to make a case. Realize your brilliant “helpful suggestions” aren't in the least useful.
Yet for anyone to (1) point out the means for success, shifting the responsibility for the frustrated folks own happiness to themselves and (2) suggest a known-good course of action proven likely to achieve the elusive happiness is often rewarded with an ungracious, ungrateful response including name calling from you (“sheep,” “useless,” “lazy”) and others (“clowns, “dumb”).
The non-frustrated and more manly members also have the right to express their opinions and frustrations about the whingers as well. We're not allowed to joke much about this protected class, however, despite the amusement at the specter of supposedly grown men reverting to childhood (age related?) and acting like babies. So there's that.
Part of that viewed context must be where most of these “frustrated” have come to Thailand from, namely from a particular gloomy climate:
BRITAIN is a nation of moaners who complain more than 70 times a week each.
Researchers found our love of complaining, like Disney dwarf Grumpy and TV’s Victor Meldrew, means we grumble at least 11 times every weekday and 16 times over the weekend.
It also emerged we will already have had three grumbles before we even leave the house in the morning.
In fact, Brits complain so much that more than three quarters admit to having a moan about other people moaning or complaining.
--Grump Britain: This is why we are a nation of moaners
And so they still have other choices to handle their problems gracefully and manfully or, if unable to do so, to leave and try to be happy elsewhere.
The few observers here, mostly non-Brits, blessed with objectivity, rational perspective, and fortitude, are often bashed as defenders of this and that by those who don’t like hearing how they might also bear their burdens with equanimity. A far more accurate and descriptive term than “defenders” for these stalwarts would be rubbish sweepers.
Realism spoils the whinge and causes disappointment subsequently vocalized through various emotionally freighted phrases and names.
No, this usually by far the best and only solution for the whinger to abandon his toxic whinging about Thailand and stop spreading around its toxicity. Whinging just begets more whinging and bashing until soon we're left with a Neighborhood Overrun by Puking, Pooping Vultures.
That’s because objectivity, rational argument, and reasonable perspective are totally ineffective against the usual forum whinge. A whinge, however colorfully embroidered with horrific details of the suffering (“had to sign a new paper”), boils down to merely an emotional “me no like” moan. You can’t reason a man out of an opinion he didn’t reason himself into.
Hence “don’t like it, get out” should probably be the first and perhaps the only reply made to what is obviously just a whinge. Anything more will be a waste of time.
You see, many of our rational posters sincerely, benevolently would just like to alleviate some of the horrendous suffering continually expressed here on the same old topics. Call it tough love. Being in a constant state of negativity just isn’t good for our members’ health, except for bonding them to other whingers.
Life is stressful, and complaining may be considered by many as an extension of being absolutely normal. However, complaining affects our brains and our physical health negatively. A sense of sadness or melancholy is increased, along with real dissatisfaction with our daily lives.
--Effectively Stop Complaining in 7 Easy Steps
It’s long been said that complaining is bad for you, and new research from Stanford University has found that it really does shrink your brain.
Researchers concluded that complaining shrinks the hippocampus, which is a part of your brain that is critical to problem solving and intelligent thought. Any damage to the hippocampus is terrifying, especially when you remember that this is the main part of the brain that is affected by Alzheimer’s disease.
Complaining also causes your body to release the stress hormone cortisol, which puts you into a fight-or-flight mode. This causes oxygen, blood, and energy to be directed away from everything in your body except for the parts that are immediately essential to survival. Frequent complaining can cause longterm damage to your immune system and leave you susceptible to high cholesterol, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and even strokes.
--Here’s How Complaining Literally Shrinks Your Brain
You see, we obviously got so many of members already running around with their shrunk hippocampi. We got ‘em running to the Health forum constantly with all their ailments mentioned above. Have some mercy on these people, man. Have a heart!
Hence the internet is full of prescriptions about how to stop complaining. Some of us sons of The Greatest Generation don’t find it difficult. But others do, hence our helpful prescriptions for helping them out.
Aye, mate, now that’s tellin’ it like it is. The thing is, leaving is such an excellent solution to recommend because it’s been proven to work so very well. Our whingers who’ve left have in fact stopped their whinging about Thailand. Now they crow that they’re happy as fleas in a doghouse. They wish they’d left earlier, just as they were probably advised.
Well, they didn’t belong in Thailand in the first place. Why? Who knows? Too rigid in their thinking, too culturally bound, too bigoted, too negative, too weak, too skint. They still love to hang out in the forums, however, to gloat, stir the pot, and continue bashing Thailand. Partly it’s just all owing to sour grapes.
But, point is, it WORKED: they’ve stopped complaining and whinging about Thailand.
Presumably they’re now happily posting stuff like Some f**ker's nicked my bins and After 5 years of complaining about the potholes on our road, the council are resurfacing it all. Now everyone is complaining about where they are meant to park for 3 days
And Some <deleted> on the bus is playing their music on loud speaker for us all to enjoy. Over on https://reddit.com/r/britishproblems/. Just as on this forum when living in Thailand!
So, to recommend a tried and tested known-good solution is a public service and the only moral thing to do. Our pro-whinge activists should really start suggesting it, too, as it’s in everyone’s interest. Point people more towards those Vietnam-Cambodia-Philippines-UK-USA-Spain-is-wonderful threads.
“Have the right” to do something begs the questions of
whether you should do it,
why you think you need to do it
whether that need might be better met in some more productive way
how useful it will be to anyone if you do it,
why nobody cares how you feel about anything,
why nobody cares or should care about your brilliant “solutions” Thai authorities should adopt
why others shouldn’t have the right to point out your illogic, bigotry, and silliness, besides telling you to man up--or leave if that’s all you can do.
Not accepting but, at the same time, not whinging means doing something—not necessarily leaving but altering circumstances, external or internal. Then the reason for your complaint no longer has a significant impact. Weather’s too hot, go inside and sit in front of the aircon or decide that, though you know it’s hot, you really don’t mind hot weather. No need to post about it then.
But a whinger intends to do nothing, including changing his attitude. We're certainly not going to change it here.
So while congratulating yourself on your critical thinking skills you’ve arrived at your own false dichotomy of sheep vs (cough) good citizens of a country where we're not citizens and have no voice whatsoever. Well done.
It’s more like a trichotomy:
1. Noisy whingers, bigots, bashers, pot stirrers, trolls, paranoids, and purveyors of misinformation wasting their and others’ time flapping their gums;
2. Rational seekers or contributors of useful, accurate information and various forms of help;
3. Real men (or women) who without fanfare and time-wasting accept reality as it is and adapt to it. How? By making rational decisions according to the best information they have, which is probably more information than the average whinger bothers to discover for himself. Obstacles are viewed as challenges to be overcome and failures accepted as learning experiences along the way.
Our naysayers merely refuse to believe that the latter two optimistic “reality-based” groups, overlapping in many cases, have adapted to Thailand successfully, can meet the very same obstacles they do but with an equitable temperament, and are truly happy living in this country. If ever it becomes impossible to live here, then they can also find ways to be happy elsewhere. Roll with the flow.
We're only seeing a tiny fraction of the total population of expats here. In fact most expats don’t bother posting about negatives they regard as mostly obvious, expected, trivial or bother even reading the forum. My own building, long sold out, is full of such expats. They are in fact pretty happy just living their lives. They may even account themselves lucky, as I do. We work around the imperfections and find the good more than makes up for any bad.
Tripping over grammatical negation has uncovered a small nugget of truth. Moreover, just because a problem does affect you directly or make your situation intolerable also doesn't mean you shouldn't be silent. It also means you probably should be silent unless you've taken, or are taking, some kind of action for remedy about which it might benefit others to know. Otherwise, better to find something useful to do with your time, something pleasant to think about, rather than sit around at a keyboard and moan uselessly on a public forum.
Yep. So then cut Thai IOs and authorities some slack, realize what they have to deal with, and focus on improving your own lives, relating useful information, and asking helpful questions rather than just whinging, mansplaining, and asserting superiority. Find out requirements, meet them or not, move on. Let us know when you've really got something.
No, let’s use that trump card a lot more often rather than wasting time trying to discuss anything and being “enablers” for these emotional grabs for attention that substitute for any real remedy.
Another false dichotomy, BTW, of perfect happiness vs. life of wandering. Not sure who has perfect happiness? Never met anyone who had it or imagined it attainable. And why would a life of wandering be the ONLY alternative? Most expats, however, enjoy reasonable happiness without whinging perhaps in part because they no longer need to wander at the present stage of their lives.
You surely needn’t worry in the least about any threat to the time-honored tradition of expat whinging here. Whingers are a large protected class and whinging is a form of protected speech we aren’t much allowed to joke about or sneer at or call names like they get to do. Otherwise, the entire business would be at risk.