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BANGKOK 21 April 2019 17:32

TravelerEastWest

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Everything posted by TravelerEastWest

  1. "Yet there is still an active camp (i.e.: Joel Fuhrman MD) who will claim that fat, not carbs is the culprit). I've explored both points of view in depth, and for the life of me, I just can't fathom how any rational person could not see the truth about carbs in connection with diabetes, yet th opposition is quite vocal and strong." It is not just an active camp suggesting a departure from SAD and moving towards a whole food plant-based diet. More and more doctors are moving that way and science backs up this way of life. Programs are starting to train doctors in nutrition and the benefits of whole plant-based diets. Dr Dean Ornish now has his low fat program paid for by Medicare (I think or is it Medicaid ?) More and more a low-fat whole food diet is supported by research and of course many personal stories... Processed carbs are bad, whole plant carbs are fine. Now if you ate whole plant heavy carb carbs 18 hours a day is it bad for you? Probably way too much for diabetics and maybe others but this doesn't happen as whole plant-based foods fill you up.
  2. "It's a well established fact that excessive carbohydrates lead to obesity,.." Sorry, but it is not clearly established - just the opposite based on my readings and personal experience. Unless you define excessive as processed junk food carbs in that case I am with you - but you can eat healthy carbs as much as you like - maybe because they fill you up quickly? High carb diets have been around for thousands of years all over the world. What is bad is a junk food diet high in carbs and protein and fat and processed foods. But I 100% respect your beliefs and personal experience...
  3. Robblok, You are clearly correct -based on my experience - high carb diet whole plant based diet with light exercise daily equal lots of weight loss which has stayed off. low carb diets can give good short term results (really don't know about long term) but not better than a high carb diet. I think lifestyle changes are what we are after and not a diet - which can be hard to maintain.
  4. "I, for one, totally agree that fats are over-demonized. The fat vs carb debate has fierce advocates for both views but the chief thing that separates the two camps is that those who blame diabetes on excessive carbs tend to back up their claim with documented science-based studies pertaining to metabolic physiology and biochemistry, while those advocating fat as the culprit rely more on anecdotal and epidemiological evidence which are simply a lot less compelling, and more open to biased interpretation. When you look at science-based facts, it’s pretty clear that carbs, not fats are the real culprit..." An interesting observation which I don't agree with based on the latest studies and science - again I rely on people like Gregor - I don't read the research papers myself as I am not qualified. I also like Bernard's research and he came from a cattle family so I think he is not biased in terms of his background. my non scientific observation is that meat eaters don't want to give up their meat and fat and are struggling to find anything to support their position. Myself I love cheese and pizzas but no longer eat them as they are too fattening and not healthy. But I respect your thoughts.
  5. I am quite frustrated at the state of medicine today - but I try to be understanding... "...the rates of obesity and diabetes in Western populations increased, demonstrating there was no connection." I don't agree with the above statement about no connection - fat consumption with the SAD is quite high. processed food consumption is high, meat and dairy consumption is high all together not a good thing... There is fat in almost everything including oatmeal - normally no need for extra oils etc none at all.
  6. Atkins, Keto, Paleo yes different in the details all similar... That link was just an interesting one quickly found many to be found. Now what is the value of low carb supporting studies vs high carb? As I posted earlier I am not qualified to say but I can say that so far Gregor is the most logical and fact based writer that I have come across recently. And I trust his review of the current research. I am curious your friends have they been on the low carb diet for 4 or 5 years or 20 plus years? And let's say they have been eating a low carb diet for 20 plus years how many others have been doing this without health problems? they can look good be trim and strong and happy and drop dead from a heart attack in 20 years... Let's assume that excess carb intake can cause problems - first, junk food carbs will cause problems for sure. Eating a whole plant-based diet? Not so sure as you get full quickly and you don't normally have high glucose spikes from whole plants. Again are there extreme high carb diets that are while plant-based that can cause problems - possible but very rare and I have never heard of one ever. In your chart the rice is not whole grain French fries are garbage wholemeal sounds procccesed Bananas and grapes certainly do have a high amount of carbs and being careful with them would be a good idea... Overall the chart is of little value for this topic unless you think it is composed of a whole plant diet? How about a chart filled with vegetables and whole grains and fruits? That would be more useful. Lots of studies out there showing meat is terrible for our health - of course if you eat very small amounts mostly for flavor not taht bad...
  7. Just to start: http://www.atkinsexposed.org/ Dr Gregor's book; Carbophobia I have read many references to the long term health problems of Keto low carb diets I am not worried about the short term problems because not everyone has them and they don't seem too bad...
  8. I understand your frustration with your doctor's lack of nutritional and exercise counseling. I have had the same experience... In their defense they are typically overworked in an insurance-based medical system and do not have the time to really help - and yes they normally are not trained in nutrition. I have spent many hours doing surface research (as stated before I am not qualified to review the research and I don't think many people are...) and based on keto type diets having increases all causes of long term mortality (my sources are primarily experienced cardiologists - again I do surface research and then end up following with an open mind) As for internet gurus - I tend to discount those without training and then I look to see the general trend and balance with my own experience. I think that banishing processed carbs from our diet is a good thing but not whole food based carbs. I am familiar with Fung's thoughts and he is very arrogant and I think he is correct on the basic short term results of low carb diets and fasts. But he and others ignore the fat issues which from what I read are big issues. So I see processed carbs as bad and leading to diabetes as well as a high fat diet. With fat being the primary cause.
  9. This thread is very interesting and my thanks to the posters. I am not an MD or research Ph.D. so I have a difficult time understanding the research out there. I barely survived statistics in grad school, and you need a solid grounding in statistics to even start to understand some of these studies. Dr. Gregor who wrote How not to die is my go-to source for science backed research. I also have a friend who is an MD and research Ph.D. who has not said he is 100% certain about the whole plant-based low-fat diet but is leaning in that direction. I see lots of smart people arguing both sides of the fence - fat or carbs? One thing that makes reading books and watching videos difficult is that often both sides are correct but sometimes incomplete... As an example, low carbs can certainly help those with diabetes - quickly reduce glucose levels, etc.; but they don't help with insulin resistance while a whole plant based diet does help with insulin resistance. But there is a shortage of long term studies with large groups on the effects of low carb diets, and some studies show all causes of mortality goes up long term with low carb diets. So, in the end, some experimenting needs to be done for each person to see what works best. For me a whole plant-based diet low fat with mild exercise 6 or 7 days a week works well and I have diabetes and have had it for a very long time.
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