Diseased chickens

[cooked]

I have been looking on Internet quite a bit and have been unable as yet to find a reliable key to determining what disease a chicken might have . (You know: question one, did the chickens suddenly die, if yes go to question two, if no go to question three). We only had about 40 ducks and chickens so nobody took the time to tell us what disease they had before they nearly all died. All I can find is lists of diseases which are difficult to go through, and don't help much at all.

 

So my questions: we have a few survivors, that are presumably now immune to whatever it was, will they transmit the disease whatever it was, on to future generations of birds?

Adequately cooked, is it ok to eat the meat or feed the dogs with it? I have taken measures to ensure that no more birds from outside can get into the yard, and tried to disinfect the ground and chicken house with Bpun kau, whitewash.

I'm probably asking the wrong questions.

[Speedo1968]

I have been in farming since 1960, UK and other countries, retired from livestock consultancy, mainly chicken and duck, a few years ago, perhaps the following tips may be of use.

 

I strongly recommend that you or your dogs etc DO NOT eat any birds that have died or are sick, or have been given any form of antibiotic.    There is no such thing as an "adequately cooked" infected carcass.  

 

If they are sick they should be put in a hospital pen far away from healthy birds, they should have a different water supply and be visited last.   

If you think that the cause is disease then it would be prudent to kill the birds.  

Remove any dead birds  immediately, otherwise they may be cannibalised by other birds or attract vermin.    

The carcasses should be burned thoroughly and buried.

 

Are birds continuing to become sick / die ???

 

Do you have any other livestock other than chicken or ducks that share the same area ???

 

It is good that you have now prevented other birds from outside getting in to the yard.

Unfortunately wild birds are a known carrier of many diseases.    If you have egrets near by they are carriers of bird flu.

 

Whitewash is a good idea.   You may wish to go one step further and place a foot dip at the entrance to the yard, although not recommended unless you wear rubber boots !

 

Chickens and ducks can be carriers, each species may or may not be susceptible to the same disease.

 

If both chickens and ducks died at the same time then it is most likely there is a common cause, bacterial infection, feed toxins, panic etc.

 

Immunity, unusual.   Carriers i.e can they pass on the disease, yes is possible.     Infected birds, yes can directly affect others.      Did only chickens die or was it both chickens and ducks ???

Finding a simple step by step guide is difficult, I will see what I can dig out for you.    A few general observations that you should take are listed below.    If you can remember what happened this time round it would help, have given a few simple questions below.

 

General Points To Observe And Consider

Although you may only have a few birds ( you miss them when they are gone ), take a visual note of their general activity / condition daily, as well as weather conditions.  

 

If You Find Sick Or Dead Birds - Fundamental Questions / Recomendations

If any look sick isolate immediately if possible.

Take photos if possible.    Would be grateful of any pics if you have them, please send as a message.

Has the water supply changed or become contaminated ???

Has the feed supply changed ???

Did the birds have any cause to panic ???

Age of birds, if known ???

Have you recently introduced new birds ???     From where ???    Was it only those birds that died or died first ???

Have neighbours birds become sick or died ???

 

You have done well to secure the yard from 'other' chickens, neighbours from sick farms should not be allowed in the yard or yard area.    Vets can also be a major carrier if they don't follow 'good practice'; if they visit your livestock they should be asked to use a foot dip at the very least.

Do not visit neighbours farms ( as a courtesy ) if close by or that have had similar problems.

 

Hope the above is not too confusing.   It will at least help with observation and possible clues as to what happened.

I will come back to you with as simple as possible step by step guide as to condition of bird and possible disease link.

Often the cause is quite simple - hence the need for daily observation.

Would be grateful if you could answer the questions I have put.

 

Feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

Good luck.

 

 

 

[cooked]

Wow! Hang on a mo, I'll digest all that and get back.

[cooked]

On 9/14/2017 at 3:10 PM, Speedo1968 said:

Sorry I took so long answering, stressful week!

So:

Are birds continuing to become sick / die ???

NO. The whole thing was over in a week, we rescued 10 ducklings, three of the four geese, all of who got ill, survived.

Do you have any other livestock other than chicken or ducks that share the same area ???

NO

Whitewash is a good idea.   You may wish to go one step further and place a foot dip at the entrance to the yard, although not recommended unless you wear rubber boots !

 

If both chickens and ducks died at the same time then it is most likely there is a common cause, bacterial infection, feed toxins, panic etc.

 

Immunity, unusual.   Carriers i.e can they pass on the disease, yes is possible.     Infected birds, yes can directly affect others.      Did only chickens die or was it both chickens and ducks ???

Chickens and ducks died.

Finding a simple step by step guide is difficult, I will see what I can dig out for you.    A few general observations that you should take are listed below.    If you can remember what happened this time round it would help, have given a few simple questions below.

 

 

If You Find Sick Or Dead Birds - Fundamental Questions / Recomendations

If any look sick isolate immediately if possible.

We didn't do that apart from the ducklings.

Take photos if possible.    Would be grateful of any pics if you have them, please send as a message.

No photos. The birds just started to sit down, although they did do some circling first, they typically had their heads turned back on one side of their back, also heads butting backwards and forwards. 

 

Has the water supply changed or become contaminated ???

The cesspit overflowed into the pound. 

Has the feed supply changed ???

No

Did the birds have any cause to panic ???

No

Age of birds, if known ???

Mostly one year - 18 months

Have you recently introduced new birds ???     From where ???    Was it only those birds that died or died first ???

No

Have neighbours birds become sick or died ???

Yes, everybody lost birds, we saved more than most.

 

You have done well to secure the yard from 'other' chickens, neighbours from sick farms should not be allowed in the yard or yard area.    Vets can also be a major carrier if they don't follow 'good practice'; if they visit your livestock they should be asked to use a foot dip at the very least.

Do not visit neighbours farms ( as a courtesy ) if close by or that have had similar problems.

..hope that helps... thanks in advance

 

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

..hope that helps... thanks in advance

 

Hello 'cooked', many thanks for the reply and the detailed information; glad you managed to save some of the birds.

Great that you observed / remembered the birds body movements during their illness.

 

Possibly two common denominators, your neighbours birds also became sick and died, disease spread to your farm.  If your neighbours also had overflowing cesspits, or flooding bringing in contaminated water.    Could be a combination of the two.

 

Although it looks as though losses are due to toxins from contaminated water, I would be grateful if you could answer a few more questions when you get time, no hurry.

1) - How many chickens and how many ducklings did you loose ?

2) - You say 'ducklings', how old were they, would be grateful if you can give a fairly precise age ?    We normally use the        term "ducklings" to mean from 1 - 14 or 21 days.

3) - How long after the 'ducklings' came to the farm did the sickness start ?   I question this because you say 'ducklings'         not ducks  "Have you recently introduced new birds ???     From where ???    Was it only those birds that died or died             first ???   No"

4) - Did you buy the 'ducklings' or chickens from government supply or local and, were they vaccinated ?

5) - Are the 'ducklings' from your own farm' ( i.e. hatched eggs ) ?

6) - Did you separate the 'ducklings' when they first came to the farm or, only after they became sick ?

7) - Do all birds use the same house for sleeping etc ?

8) - May I ask which area of Thailand you are in ?    I live south of Khon Kaen but unfortunately do not have a farm.

 

Please ask if you have any questions.

 

Still in the process of trying to put together an easy to understand step by step guide, for basic disease or other issues for chickens and ducks.

 

[cooked]

3 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

 

 

Possibly two common denominators, your neighbours birds also became sick and died, disease spread to your farm.  If your neighbours also had overflowing cesspits, or flooding bringing in contaminated water.    Could be a combination of the two.

I don't think so, when I say neighbours, I mean we first heard about it from a neighbouring village. Our immediate neighbour lost all his fighting cocks but didn't tell us.

Although it looks as though losses are due to toxins from contaminated water, I would be grateful if you could answer a few more questions when you get time, no hurry.

1) - How many chickens and how many ducklings did you loose ?

We lost about 35 ducks, three survived. Chickens: lost 3 out of the five we still had.

2) - You say 'ducklings', how old were they, would be grateful if you can give a fairly precise age ?    We normally use the        term "ducklings" to mean from 1 - 14 or 21 days.

By ducklings I mean still fluffy. We took them out of their nursery area and kept them on our front porch for two weeks. 

3) - How long after the 'ducklings' came to the farm did the sickness start ?   I question this because you say 'ducklings'         not ducks  "Have you recently introduced new birds ???     From where ???    Was it only those birds that died or died             first ???   No"

The ducklings were hatched on the farm.

4) - Did you buy the 'ducklings' or chickens from government supply or local and, were they vaccinated ?

No and no. If I do take on chickens again, I'll buy vaccinated RIRs.

5) - Are the 'ducklings' from your own farm' ( i.e. hatched eggs ) ?

As mentioned before, hatched on the farm, we started with a pair.

6) - Did you separate the 'ducklings' when they first came to the farm or, only after they became sick ?

We separated the ducklings before they got sick.

7) - Do all birds use the same house for sleeping etc ?

A house is available but most of them sleep underneath it

8) - May I ask which area of Thailand you are in ?    I live south of Khon Kaen but unfortunately do not have a farm.

Buriram, as Kwaibah is aware. I think he no longer raises chickens because of these diseases (?)

 

Please ask if you have any questions.

 

Still in the process of trying to put together an easy to understand step by step guide, for basic disease or other issues for chickens and ducks.

 

Thanks again. No questions for now. A newly imported drake is busily mating with the surviving ducks, much to the protest of the three geese... so as far as that is concerned, things are back to normal for the time being.

[farmerjo]

Cooked,a long shot but are there any common weeds in the district that turn toxic at a certain stage in maturity.

When i had cows years ago here the FIL would point out what they could graze on and how much they could tolerate of certain plants.

The heads facing back reminds me of back in Aus,we had a plant called box poison and if the sheep ate to much of it and their heart rate was risen they would run around in a circle for a minute then die.

[khwaibah]

"Buriram, as Kwaibah is aware. I think he no longer raises chickens because of these diseases (?)"

 

SWMBO has The Chicken Ranch back up to full steam. We returned from the colonize July 27 and her chickens about 50 and ducks another 50 all full grown were all doing good. Since then her congregation is multiplying. She is pulling in about 120 eggs per week and 90 of these go into the incubator. All chickens and ducks get vaccinated. All feed is from known suppliers and all drinking water is from a well with vitamins added again from a suppler. So far we have not had any die offs (yet) as your having. I have not heard of any local die offs in a rang of about 50km. I'm not saying there hasn't been  just not heard of any. One of the first things she did after our return was to get her staff in and clean out all areas of the rice hulks that were used for bedding. She got about 200 bags at 40kg each of prime CS fertilizer., then she sprayed before laying down new bedding

[cooked]

Thanks Farmer Joe!

The only vegetables they get come from what used to be my vegetable garden and has now become my poultry garden. The ground around the coop has been picked bare, to be extended....

[khwaibah]

44 minutes ago, cooked said:

Thanks again. No questions for now. A newly imported drake is busily mating with the surviving ducks, much to the protest of the three geese... so as far as that is concerned, things are back to normal for the time being.

The boss brought back a new vaccination gun I purchased from Amazon.

 

[Speedo1968]

2 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Cooked,a long shot but are there any common weeds in the district that turn toxic at a certain stage in maturity.

When i had cows years ago here the FIL would point out what they could graze on and how much they could tolerate of certain plants.

The heads facing back reminds me of back in Aus,we had a plant called box poison and if the sheep ate to much of it and their heart rate was risen they would run around in a circle for a minute then die.

Although ducks are water fowl, pond algae if of the right sort and they consume small amounts can kill.

This will especially occur where large ponds, as used in Malaysia, are used for rearing / fattening.     A small shed is provided on land but often without an alternative water supply.

Similar symptoms as described can occur and mortality can be very high.

 

Generally animals, perhaps excluding us, know which plants are toxic and instinctively stay away from them.  Harmful plants usually taste bitter.

Of the plants in Thailand that you may have, caster bean, oleander, milk weed, some ivy's, boxwood ( not sure if is same as in Aus ), pokeweed, pennyroyal and vetch are toxic.

 

Moldy feed can also cause similar results.

 

I have left out specific diseases of ducks as the problem affected all birds.   E.coli and Botulislm  ( especially ducks ) could be a cause.    Most likely it is contaminated water from whatever source.   Ducks immune system is also via the eye so when trying to wash in affected water they get a double dose.  

If not already available try to provide a separate drinking source from mains water.   

[Mr Kie]

I think your birds died because of bird flu outbreak. I'm in the industry i know but it is not officially announced otherwise the whole industry will get affected especially the export of broiler meat. in other countries even our neighboring countries already reported having the bird flu outbreak. 

 

I will simply recommend you to look at the bird feces, if it brown it's related to the intestinal track damaged by protozoa. if the feces has green color then the birds not eating food, this most probably cause by infection of viral disease, depressed and not eating so you find only kind of gastric juice that coming out. 

 

if the birds having wet feces most likely caused by bacteria, Clostidium, E. coli or Salmonella 

the best way to identify the causes, you need to cult the birds and look at the intestinal tract, look at the liver and other tissues, that would be much more accurate. 

 

with the number of birds you got, the best preventive measure i would recommend is do vaccination of all birds all deadly diseases. 

 

My birds are very healthy, we got now 300 birds, no problem with the outbreak. hope this help. 

[Speedo1968]

19 hours ago, Mr Kie said:

I think your birds died because of bird flu outbreak. I'm in the industry i know but it is not officially announced otherwise the whole industry will get affected especially the export of broiler meat. in other countries even our neighboring countries already reported having the bird flu outbreak. 

 

I will simply recommend you to look at the bird feces, if it brown it's related to the intestinal track damaged by protozoa. if the feces has green color then the birds not eating food, this most probably cause by infection of viral disease, depressed and not eating so you find only kind of gastric juice that coming out. 

 

if the birds having wet feces most likely caused by bacteria, Clostidium, E. coli or Salmonella 

the best way to identify the causes, you need to cult the birds and look at the intestinal tract, look at the liver and other tissues, that would be much more accurate. 

 

with the number of birds you got, the best preventive measure i would recommend is do vaccination of all birds all deadly diseases. 

 

My birds are very healthy, we got now 300 birds, no problem with the outbreak. hope this help. 

Some interesting and useful comments and tips Mr Kie.    I remember looking and your first posting many months ago, you seem to be doing well with now 300 birds !

 

Regarding bird flu, yes of course it is here and remains a worldwide problem and becoming larger as the virus mutates quickly.   More common during rice growing season, egrets are known carriers and so also is the common house sparrow.

As 'cooked' has lost a high number of birds ( 90% or so ) across the species then I would possibly also suspect bird flu.  It would have been prudent in this case to slaughter the remaining birds as they could be carriers without showing symptoms as mentioned in my first post on this subject.

As neighbours also lost birds then bird flu is probably still the most possible cause.

However I would still not rule out waterborne toxins.

The symptoms the birds exhibited are similar to both bird flu and toxins.

[pigeonjake]

my first choice would be cocidiosis builds up in the ground and in damp areas in the sheds,

[khwaibah]

There has been no report by the Ministry of  Public Health of any bird flu epidemic in Thailand but he has come out with this statment.

 

• Thursday, September 21, 2017
• Stay Connected

 

 

 

• HOME
• NEWS

 

 

Thailand to stay vigilant against bird flu through winter

The Thai Ministry of Public Health has ordered all of its provincial offices to be cautious against all types of bird flu throughout the coming winter season, particularly in areas with history of infections and provinces along the border.

The order to beef up observation came after a report of a new bird flu strain, H5N8, at a poultry farm in the Netherlands on November 17, where 150,000 chickens were killed and the country halted all deliveries of poultry and eggs for 72 hours.

Permanent Secretary for Public Health Dr Narong Sahamethapat said there have been no reports of H5N8 infection in Thailand as yet, though there have been multiple cases of NH5N1 infections.

The high ranking public health official said the region is now heading into the winter season, prompting different types of bird to seek warmer weather in Thailand, which this means that the bird flu could spread within the country again, despite the fact that Thailand has not seen any bird flu infections since 2006.

Dr Narong said Thailand is still at high risk of contracting H5N1 again, as the disease spread in neighbouring countries continuously last year, adding that better monitoring is needed along the border provinces, as there are still deliveries of poultry being made.

The public health permanent secretary said he has warned provincial offices of disease control and public health to be extra watchful of any signs of the virus spreading among humans and animals, especially in areas that have once been infected with the disease and along the Thai-Cambodian, Thai-Laos and Thai-Myanmar borders.

According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), there are seven strains of bird flu that could be passed to humans, the most acute being the H5N1 strain, which is still infecting human beings and animals alike.

The total number of patients diagnosed with H5N1 bird flu from 2003-2014 stands at 668, with 393 deaths from the disease in 16 countries globally. In 2014 alone, 19 patients in Cambodia, China, Egypt, Indonesia, and Vietnam were infected with the virus, and eight died from the disease.

(MCOT online news)

[Mr Kie]

20 minutes ago, khwaibah said:

There has been no report by the Ministry of  Public Health of any bird flu academic in Thailand but he has come out with this statment.

 

• Thursday, September 21, 2017
• Stay Connected

 

 

 

• HOME
• NEWS

 

 

Thailand to stay vigilant against bird flu through winter

The Thai Ministry of Public Health has ordered all of its provincial offices to be cautious against all types of bird flu throughout the coming winter season, particularly in areas with history of infections and provinces along the border.

The order to beef up observation came after a report of a new bird flu strain, H5N8, at a poultry farm in the Netherlands on November 17, where 150,000 chickens were killed and the country halted all deliveries of poultry and eggs for 72 hours.

Permanent Secretary for Public Health Dr Narong Sahamethapat said there have been no reports of H5N8 infection in Thailand as yet, though there have been multiple cases of NH5N1 infections.

The high ranking public health official said the region is now heading into the winter season, prompting different types of bird to seek warmer weather in Thailand, which this means that the bird flu could spread within the country again, despite the fact that Thailand has not seen any bird flu infections since 2006.

Dr Narong said Thailand is still at high risk of contracting H5N1 again, as the disease spread in neighbouring countries continuously last year, adding that better monitoring is needed along the border provinces, as there are still deliveries of poultry being made.

The public health permanent secretary said he has warned provincial offices of disease control and public health to be extra watchful of any signs of the virus spreading among humans and animals, especially in areas that have once been infected with the disease and along the Thai-Cambodian, Thai-Laos and Thai-Myanmar borders.

According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), there are seven strains of bird flu that could be passed to humans, the most acute being the H5N1 strain, which is still infecting human beings and animals alike.

The total number of patients diagnosed with H5N1 bird flu from 2003-2014 stands at 668, with 393 deaths from the disease in 16 countries globally. In 2014 alone, 19 patients in Cambodia, China, Egypt, Indonesia, and Vietnam were infected with the virus, and eight died from the disease.

(MCOT online news)

Well....we all know about what is going on right now, we are not allowed to import or produce any bird flu vaccine but some people carrying with them from China and sell it to mostly breeder farms and layer farms and those are killed vaccine. 

 

Believe or not but this is the truth, the DLD director and the veterinarian know pretty well about the issue, bird flu is not occurring in only winter right now. it already adapted to the region already, it can be now occurred at any seasons. if we officially confirmed bird flu outbreak this would affect to the entire industry. don't forget we are the top five counties exporting of broiler meat in the world. so we can't report as bird flu unless we found it infected in people. 

 

Don't you know we keeping this issue secret, we trying to report it as another disease outbreak but not bird flu. the government won't be able to compensate the loses. 

 

[khwaibah]

15 minutes ago, Mr Kie said:

Well....we all know about what is going on right now, we are not allowed to import or produce any bird flu vaccine but some people carrying with them from China and sell it to mostly breeder farms and layer farms and those are killed vaccine. 

 

Believe or not but this is the truth, the DLD director and the veterinarian know pretty well about the issue, bird flu is not occurring in only winter right now. it already adapted to the region already, it can be now occurred at any seasons. if we officially confirmed bird flu outbreak this would affect to the entire industry. don't forget we are the top five counties exporting of broiler meat in the world. so we can't report as bird flu unless we found it infected in people. 

 

Don't you know we keeping this issue secret, we trying to report it as another disease outbreak but not bird flu. the government won't be able to compensate the loses. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Speedo1968]

19 hours ago, khwaibah said:

There has been no report by the Ministry of  Public Health of any bird flu epidemic in Thailand but he has come out with this statment.

 

• Thursday, September 21, 2017
• Stay Connected

 

 

 

• HOME
• NEWS

 

 

Thailand to stay vigilant against bird flu through winter

The Thai Ministry of Public Health has ordered all of its provincial offices to be cautious against all types of bird flu throughout the coming winter season, particularly in areas with history of infections and provinces along the border.

The order to beef up observation came after a report of a new bird flu strain, H5N8, at a poultry farm in the Netherlands on November 17, where 150,000 chickens were killed and the country halted all deliveries of poultry and eggs for 72 hours.

Permanent Secretary for Public Health Dr Narong Sahamethapat said there have been no reports of H5N8 infection in Thailand as yet, though there have been multiple cases of NH5N1 infections.

The high ranking public health official said the region is now heading into the winter season, prompting different types of bird to seek warmer weather in Thailand, which this means that the bird flu could spread within the country again, despite the fact that Thailand has not seen any bird flu infections since 2006.

Dr Narong said Thailand is still at high risk of contracting H5N1 again, as the disease spread in neighbouring countries continuously last year, adding that better monitoring is needed along the border provinces, as there are still deliveries of poultry being made.

The public health permanent secretary said he has warned provincial offices of disease control and public health to be extra watchful of any signs of the virus spreading among humans and animals, especially in areas that have once been infected with the disease and along the Thai-Cambodian, Thai-Laos and Thai-Myanmar borders.

According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), there are seven strains of bird flu that could be passed to humans, the most acute being the H5N1 strain, which is still infecting human beings and animals alike.

The total number of patients diagnosed with H5N1 bird flu from 2003-2014 stands at 668, with 393 deaths from the disease in 16 countries globally. In 2014 alone, 19 patients in Cambodia, China, Egypt, Indonesia, and Vietnam were infected with the virus, and eight died from the disease.

(MCOT online news)

"There has been no report by the Ministry of  Public Health of any bird flu epidemic in Thailand but he has come out with this statment"

Is this meant to be the ministers statement ???   If it is when was it made ?   It mentions the coming winter season is that 2016 or 2017,  as the The article relates to the November 2016  outbreak in the Netherlands ?

 

Such a statement should be made prior to the rainy season when egrets fly into the paddies.

 

Not sure of the date of the above article !   It notes Netherlands on November 17th ( 2016 ).

It is an interesting article but as it is not dated we must assume it is almost a year old.

There have been multiple cases in numerous countries since that time, 2016 and 2017.

H5N8 confirmed in UK, Zimbabwe and South Africa in June of this year, 2017.

H5N1 fifth time round this year in Vietnam, 2017.

H5N6 again confirmed in Vietnam this year, 2017.

Thailand generally seems to note only when there is a human casualty, from articles I can find online.

Vietnam spread to Thailand was found to be spread by egrets that follow the rice season

 

Avian flu, whatever number you give it, can be disastrous however big or small your farm may be.

It is here to stay and, will only get worse as it mutates rapidly, perhaps riding on the back of what we throw at it but, as we still turn a blind eye when it affects us or those nearby then we are also responsible.

 

It is not just the birds that die on your farm but, if one takes this disease responsibly it is those that have to be slaughtered in order to protect others.     

 

My advice is try as best you can to limit the possibility of bird flu on your own farm, ( simple and inexpensive methods can be very effective ).    If you know of neighbours farms having the disease you should notify the authorities ( not sure they will listen ) and, if you are willing to dob on them.   As soon as you know of farms near your own to have bird flu problems protect yourself to the highest level you can.    If you unfortunately contract and confirm it on your own farm slaughter all, burn, bury them deep and spread with quick lime.    Some birds may survive but will probably be carriers, not worth the risk to any future stock you may bring in.    Take advice from farming people on thaivisa about what to do next regarding cleaning the site and whether or not to restock.

 

[khwaibah]

19 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Not sure of the date of the above article !

 

20 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

 

• Thursday, September 21, 2017
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[Speedo1968]

20 hours ago, pigeonjake said:

my first choice would be cocidiosis builds up in the ground and in damp areas in the sheds,

Possible if birds die suddenly.   'cooked' mentions birds having their necks twisted back and birds circling whereas heads are commonly 'tucked in' with cocci.      The ducks ( not sure if age was same for all ), if young, i.e. ducklings ( fluffy as 'cooked' called them ) are more susceptible to cocci than grown birds.   Not sure if ducks were 'commercial i.e.Pekin etc or local crosses.

Yes, wet / damp areas are ideal for cocci.

As you learn to look after livestock things like colour of feaces become noticeable.

[Speedo1968]

8 minutes ago, khwaibah said:

 

 

Hello khwaibah, yes 21st or 22nd September 2017 is the only date I can find online.

As I said, if this is a "NEW" statement by the Thai Ministry of Public Health" and it relates back to the last outbreak in Europe being November 2016, hasn't he heard about the ones in June 2017 or previous ones ?

Of course throwing  blanket over the issue is the normal way here.

[pigeonjake]

57 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Possible if birds die suddenly.   'cooked' mentions birds having their necks twisted back and birds circling whereas heads are commonly 'tucked in' with cocci.      The ducks ( not sure if age was same for all ), if young, i.e. ducklings ( fluffy as 'cooked' called them ) are more susceptible to cocci than grown birds.   Not sure if ducks were 'commercial i.e.Pekin etc or local crosses.

Yes, wet / damp areas are ideal for cocci.

As you learn to look after livestock things like colour of feaces become noticeable.

heads twisted back could be newcastles disease, similar to paramixo virous in pigeons

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, pigeonjake said:

heads twisted back could be newcastles disease, similar to paramixo virous in pigeons

Normally not "associated" with ducks and if affected generally only a mild form.

END will give sudden death often without symptoms.

Can affect humans, mild respiratory symptoms and conjunctivitis. 

ND vaccination is available for chickens and pigeons.

 

Disease symptoms are often similar but not the same.   One symptom may be very noticeable but others less so.

In poultry and ducks can often be similar but not the same.

It may well depend on breed and age.   

Disease identification is harder to be sure about when you are dealing with different species, different genotypes, different ages.

As yet in my years of working with duck in different countries I have never seen ND.   I have seen it in chickens.

It is advisable to vaccinate key against key diseases of each species if possible.

 

Wry neck - torticollis in duckling can occur for a number of reasons but should not be confused with ND.

 

Twisted neck as shown in the picture below is typical of ND.     

 

 

 

[cooked]

18 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Normally not "associated" with ducks and if affected generally only a mild form.

END will give sudden death often without symptoms.

Can affect humans, mild respiratory symptoms and conjunctivitis. 

ND vaccination is available for chickens and pigeons.

 

Disease symptoms are often similar but not the same.   One symptom may be very noticeable but others less so.

In poultry and ducks can often be similar but not the same.

It may well depend on breed and age.   

Disease identification is harder to be sure about when you are dealing with different species, different genotypes, different ages.

As yet in my years of working with duck in different countries I have never seen ND.   I have seen it in chickens.

It is advisable to vaccinate key against key diseases of each species if possible.

 

Wry neck - torticollis in duckling can occur for a number of reasons but should not be confused with ND.

 

Twisted neck as shown in the picture below is typical of ND.     

 

 

 

So we're getting somewhere. The ducks, around one year old, were definitely twisting their heads back onto their backs, 100%. The ducklings were initially in a nursery area and I took them onto the porch of our house and they are now the basis of our future flock. They didn't show any signs of illness.  

Thanks again. 

 

[pigeonjake]

Glad we are getting somewhere, I don't claim to be an expert just been round farm animals all my life Thailand included 

[Speedo1968]

On 9/14/2017 at 9:12 AM, cooked said:

I have been looking on Internet quite a bit and have been unable as yet to find a reliable key to determining what disease a chicken might have . (You know: question one, did the chickens suddenly die, if yes go to question two, if no go to question three). We only had about 40 ducks and chickens so nobody took the time to tell us what disease they had before they nearly all died. All I can find is lists of diseases which are difficult to go through, and don't help much at all.

 

So my questions: we have a few survivors, that are presumably now immune to whatever it was, will they transmit the disease whatever it was, on to future generations of birds?

Adequately cooked, is it ok to eat the meat or feed the dogs with it? I have taken measures to ensure that no more birds from outside can get into the yard, and tried to disinfect the ground and chicken house with Bpun kau, whitewash.

I'm probably asking the wrong questions.

Hello 'cooked' going back to your first posting asking about a step by step guide for what may be wrong with your birds.

Still in the process of getting something drawn up.   Will try to do it in subject by subject form sending a page at a time. You can then keep or delete or comment as you wish.

Although I am sure you have learnt a lot from your experiences to date, I thought it might be worth taking a step back and taking a lighthearted look at the overall situation as if starting anew. 

Have attached as a file, for anyone to open ( if that can be done ) and comment.  If you feel this may be unsafe let me know and I will either send as message or post as normal.

ARE MY DUCKS - Page 1 - 25.09.17.docx

[cooked]

Good introduction.

Now comes the difficult bit....

Good luck with that! And well done!

[Speedo1968]

On 9/25/2017 at 2:07 PM, cooked said:

Good introduction.

Now comes the difficult bit....

Good luck with that! And well done!

02.10.17

Hello 'cooked'

No I haven't forgotten you.   As you say "Now comes the difficult bit".    Trying to put things step by step is / was difficult, even though I taught at Uni and in-house training seminars etc.   I am enjoying the challenge !

 

To start with I feel it would be better to separate the most obvious signs into things like feathering, feaces, gait ( how the bird walks about ), weight / production etc.   The things that are most noticeable.

 

I have attached some general information that may help you on your way to looking at your farm in a broader perspective.   It is not detailed but I think it will help you realise how interconnected everything is.   This is why it is vitally important that anything that has happened is commented on to the vet, or whoever you are in contact with; e.g. overflowing cesspit, change of feed, neighbouring farms health status.  Photos are an excellent way to go, for example birds condition / colour of feaces etc can change overnight.    Record keeping both general and for egg production, even on a smaller farm still have great merit.

 

Finally I have provided a basic step by step regarding "Feather Condition".   It does not go into detail regarding how you should treat birds, as it is difficult without actually seeing the farm in total to be sure of a diagnosis.   I maybe able in some circumstances ( if sufficient information is provided ) to advise what you could do.    The layout still looks cluttered but ......               I have not included photos at this time as it takes a lot of searching online or getting copies from my own books.   If you have photos and are concerned as to what may be the cause then please send me a copy, along with any other relevant information ) as a post or message or email.

 

Please let me have your thoughts on this layout ( be as critical as you like ), then I will put together one regarding feaces colour with others to follow.

 

Any questions please feel free to ask and I will try to answer quickly.

 

Finally I would recommend that you look at housing for your birds.   I am sure many people posting on the Farming Forum can help you with designs etc.    Ideally it should be easily accessible for the birds and for you, but not for predators such as rats and snakes.  It should be on a cement base.   The dry season should soon be here ( raining this much in early October ? ), a good time to get ready for the winter and next year and hopefully a good production year for you.

 

 

 

GENERAL INDICATIONS THAT SOMETHING MAY BE WRONG - modified - 01.10.17.docx

FEATHER CONDITION - modified 01.10.17.docx

[jak2002003]

Don't know where you are located, but I am in Chiang Mai, San Sai area. 

 

We lost all our chickens and many pigeons to a disease a week ago.  The disease spread all over the surrounding villages and then to most of the area north of the city, and people lost a lot of chickens and quail. Friend lost 200 guinea fowl, and a local farmer I know lost all his quail in a few days.

 

It was so serious the village loud speaker announcements talked about it and told people to repost cases to the local authority.

 

Now most of the village chickens are gone...  its very quiet in the mornings!  

 

The disease caused birds to die in usually less than 24 hours.  

 

The official report was it was not bird flu, but most locals, farmers, and the chicken supply places that I have talked to don't believe the official verdict.   The guy I get my 'pet' bantam chickens from told me not to get any more birds until the end of the year.  Said his customers have all lost birds.  

 

The symptoms were sudden, from being perfectly healthy to getting lethargic, stopping eating and drinking, and then death.  

 

 

[Mr Kie]

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Don't know where you are located, but I am in Chiang Mai, San Sai area. 

 

We lost all our chickens and many pigeons to a disease a week ago.  The disease spread all over the surrounding villages and then to most of the area north of the city, and people lost a lot of chickens and quail. Friend lost 200 guinea fowl, and a local farmer I know lost all his quail in a few days.

 

It was so serious the village loud speaker announcements talked about it and told people to repost cases to the local authority.

 

Now most of the village chickens are gone...  its very quiet in the mornings!  

 

The disease caused birds to die in usually less than 24 hours.  

 

The official report was it was not bird flu, but most locals, farmers, and the chicken supply places that I have talked to don't believe the official verdict.   The guy I get my 'pet' bantam chickens from told me not to get any more birds until the end of the year.  Said his customers have all lost birds.  

 

The symptoms were sudden, from being perfectly healthy to getting lethargic, stopping eating and drinking, and then death.  

 

 

This is obvious ..no one will report as bird flu. it's now become the local disease not only in winter but it's spreading all year round. better know where your birds from and know if they are vaccinated good enough that's only way to get your birds being healthy.