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Can a foreigner be a Juristic Person in Thailand

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8 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Large buildings often issue 10 cards a month or more

And going by your definition of large building, that is 1-2,000 units. You honestly think the profit from 10 key cards per month in such building matters to anyone?

 

It’s also somewhat absurd you keep hammering this issue; co-owners pay a management fee to manage the building. This is stipulated in the Condo Act, even that they pay based on the ratio of their ownership of common property.

 

To think that you finance the management of a building by profiting from selling key cards (and other items) to co-owners is a bad mindset. Not that I haven’t seen it though; I have seen buildings overcharge for water supply, add dubious “invoice fees”, and basically overcharging for everything; but it’s peanuts compared to the income from the management fee, and can create wrong incentives.

 

15 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

doesnt help at all and is not a solution to any real-life problem

All your posts are basically just saying everything sucks in Thailand related to managing condos, and there is nothing you can do about it. You think *that* is helpful? Especially when we are many who live in well-run buildings, some of us took active steps to improve conditions, and we are sharing the experience we got from this.

 

You do not know how to run a building properly, that is clear from all your posts, and while you are correct that it is an uphill battle, it is clearly not impossible, because all buildings are not run like those you frequent.

 

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Posted (edited)

this was all (the 'juristic' thing') was answered to the OP's satisfaction way way back in Sep2017 

This ongoing since Oct'17 - is all some new Topic really? that could have been split to run under it's own title ... sort of "...how to run a building?"  🤓 

Edited by tifino

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2 minutes ago, lkn said:

And going by your definition of large building, that is 1-2,000 units. You honestly think the profit from 10 key cards per month in such building matters to anyone?

That wasnt the point. The point was that this was one of many possible scams that anyone operating a management company would need to look out for.

 

4 minutes ago, lkn said:

It’s also somewhat absurd you keep hammering this issue; co-owners pay a management fee to manage the building. This is stipulated in the Condo Act, even that they pay based on the ratio of their ownership of common property.

 

To think that you finance the management of a building by profiting from selling key cards (and other items) to co-owners is a bad mindset. Not that I haven’t seen it though; I have seen buildings overcharge for water supply, add dubious “invoice fees”, and basically overcharging for everything; but it’s peanuts compared to the income from the management fee, and can create wrong incentives.

Many buildings more than 10 or so years old do not charge anywhere near enough in common fees to cover day-to-day expenditure. Even some brand new buildings have unrealistic common fees. In most cases it would be impossible to permanently increase the amount of the common fee at an AGM because a suitably large majority could never be obtained. So they implement supplementary annual fees to make up the shortfall, and they also often charge more for items and services than they actually cost to provide.

This is vital to the running of the building and there is no other practical way of doing it as far as I can see. And as far as the selling at a profit part goes, it does also mean that people who are actually in the building (or who have tenants) pay the bulk of the extra costs and in proportion to how much they use the services, which seems fair to me.

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8 minutes ago, tifino said:

this was all (the 'juristic' thing') was answered to the OP's satisfaction way way back in Sep2017 

This ongoing since Oct'17 - is all some new Topic really? that could have been split to run under it's own title ... sort of "...how to run a building?" 

It is indeed separate to the original topic, but I think it was the input from the Canadian guy that pushed it off track.

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26 minutes ago, lkn said:

All your posts are basically just saying everything sucks in Thailand related to managing condos, and there is nothing you can do about it. You think *that* is helpful? Especially when we are many who live in well-run buildings, some of us took active steps to improve conditions, and we are sharing the experience we got from this.

 

You do not know how to run a building properly, that is clear from all your posts, and while you are correct that it is an uphill battle, it is clearly not impossible, because all buildings are not run like those you frequent.

Many buildings here are not well run. And even in the ones that are run better there are often instances of theft and fraud, on big and small scales, most of which are covered up to the point of most co-owners being entirely unaware that they have happened. This happens in buildings with both big and small management companies, and also in those with no management company at all.

 

The real reason that your building is well run is because basically farangs are doing it all, with a token layer of Thai admin interposed, as you have described in significant detail on several occasions. You are able to do this because there are people on your committee (you) who have some technical knowledge, and also because you have a very small number of staff who work for you directly, and also because other co-owners are happy to let you get on with it.

 

I have nothing against that, but to imply that it would be possible to do in other larger buildings is nonsensical as I have tried to point out. A committee could be entirely composed of people who have no practical knowledge of anything at all - and no wish to spend any time on anything - and staff could be subject to change at any time on the whim of management, and some co-owners might not want to see any changes made for whatever reason.
I have also repeatedly pointed out that it is possible to improve things here by getting better management in but above all by having a committee that is prepared to make management work properly and also to monitor everything in some detail, as anything that isnt monitored here will always go wrong in the end.
Many committee members are not prepared to do this, and this is where it all falls down. And above all I have tried to point out that if a bad or dishonest management is opposed to any change then it may be extremely hard to do anything about it, without legal help which would probably involve money being paid upfront.

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2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The real reason that your building is well run is because basically farangs are doing it all, with a token layer of Thai admin interposed, as you have described in significant detail on several occasions

What I have said is that I have been instrumental in getting proper procedures in place, taking an active role in hiring staff, ousting the former JPM, etc.

 

But Thais (our staff, accountant, and JPM) do the lion’s share of work in my building, and our committee is 50/50 Thai/foreigner.

 

As for it being impossible to change other buildings because co-owners and committee members are indifferent: Quite sure the people who post questions on this forum are the type of people who are ready to make an effort to affect change, but what is also clear is that many lack basic knowledge about going about things.

 

For these people, you are doing them a disservice by your statements that the JPM has ultimate control, that it is impossible to call for an EGM if the management company does not agree, that it is impossible to implement proper systems to minimize the risk of fraud etc.

 

You also keep saying that all my experience is impractical because it only works in “small buildings”; but by your definition of big building being thousands of units, I think most people live in small buildings. As previously mentioned, I am not even aware of buildings in Chiang Mai with more than a thousand units, but quite a lot of foreigners live up here.

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11 minutes ago, lkn said:

What I have said is that I have been instrumental in getting proper procedures in place, taking an active role in hiring staff, ousting the former JPM, etc.

It read quite differently to me.

 

12 minutes ago, lkn said:

For these people, you are doing them a disservice by your statements that the JPM has ultimate control, that it is impossible to call for an EGM if the management company does not agree, that it is impossible to implement proper systems to minimize the risk of fraud etc. 

Still waiting for you to explain exactly how concerned co-owners in a large building can do anything about this if management wont provide them with any information, which was the exact situation described by several other people in several other topics about this.

You are also paraphrasing me and altering the meaning of what I wrote, but I'm used to that from you.

 

14 minutes ago, lkn said:

You also keep saying that all my experience is impractical because it only works in “small buildings”; but by your definition of big building being thousands of units, I think most people live in small buildings. As previously mentioned, I am not even aware of buildings in Chiang Mai with more than a thousand units, but quite a lot of foreigners live up here. 

You really do make this up as you go along.
I have never stipulated minimum sizes of large buildings, though I have mentioned some numbers as examples of how impractical it might be for co-owners to be contacted in such buildings. If you want me to, I would say that large buildings would be of perhaps 250 units upwards. There are many buildings much larger than that in Pattaya/Jomtien, including several of well over 1000 units and at least one of nearly 2000. CM is a backwater in comparison, which probably explains why you dont understand what happens elsewhere. Techniques that can be applied in buildings of 20, 50 or even 100 units simply wont work reliably in larger buildings, which is why larger buildings almost invariably employ management companies.

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Good evening,
I have recently married a Thai citizen and would like to explore the options of bringing my business to Thailand.
I am a Canadian, living and working in the Ontario Condominium industry where a license is required to be a Property Manager. I am a member of Association of Condominium Managers Ontario (Registered Condominium Manager) and a C.M.C.A. with the Community Association Institute (CAI Canada).
 
I bring with me the ethics of Ontario law and transparent service to our customers with a proprietary accounting/management/owner information software that provides real-time updates to Boards, owners, and investors. The software is adaptable for rental units as well, highlight is owners can see the financial position of the corporation and their own account in an easy click.
 
I guess my question for the group is, what would the reception be like for a Canadian Management Company doing business in Asia.
 
As i am making application for my wife to visit Canada and teach me the language i would appreciate any input or leads to developers or legislators that can clarify what i need to do. 
 
Thank you for your insight in advance.

Hello curious how this progressed and working out?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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We just completed our JP registration at the Land Office. The committee contains 3 non-Thais. This is possible because they have Thai spouses. i.e. to be a JP committee member you need to be Thai national or married (legallY) to a Thai national.

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38 minutes ago, jkcjag said:

We just completed our JP registration at the Land Office. The committee contains 3 non-Thais. This is possible because they have Thai spouses. i.e. to be a JP committee member you need to be Thai national or married (legallY) to a Thai national.

Forgive me but I don't really understand this.

My understanding is the Juristic is a body, could be one person or a company. However the committee to which the Juristic is responsible to can be made up of owners who need not be Thai - as long as they are owners even if in company name? 

Please correct me if I am wrong?

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19 hours ago, jkcjag said:

We just completed our JP registration at the Land Office. The committee contains 3 non-Thais. This is possible because they have Thai spouses. i.e. to be a JP committee member you need to be Thai national or married (legallY) to a Thai national.

Your post is pretty much 100% wrong, unless you are talking about a housing project, in which case it may be somewhat correct. Any Condo owner is permitted to be on the Committee providing they are not prohibited due to the few reasons in the act- and being Thai is not one of them.

 

It seems you are mixing up the Juristic Person Manager and the Committee. The Committee does not need to be Thai and the JPM also does not as far as I am aware, although there is a grey area surrounding work permits etc.

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