Police again extorting foreigners that dont carry passport

[tropo]

1 minute ago, Jim7777 said:

6 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

perhaps a bit extreme making sure you do not use the same route to go home more than once...?   007 style

You think varying your routes is extreme, okay then.  

It does suggest you think it's dangerous. I take the shortest route every time.

[Jim7777]

Just now, tropo said:

Once again, I have no idea why you are replying to me here.

 

Stating what is happening on the ground does not mean "I hate it so much". I've already stated that I don't have problems here and I've lived full-time in Thailand 4 times as long as you have. No trouble with no combat experience - wonders will never cease.

 

Sure, I don't like seeing foreigners being extorted, but it's like watching bad news on TV - I don't turn it off.

There you go congratulations you got the last word bye bye now.  

[atyclb]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

There you go congratulations you got the last word bye bye now.  

copy that

[tropo]

1 minute ago, Jim7777 said:

There you go congratulations you got the last word bye bye now.  

Not yet. You still keep responding.

[Jim7777]

4 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

i am just a bit amused because you are thinking in a way like you should in a war zone, literally

Well no actually most of it is just common sense like avoiding trouble, no wonder you all have so many problems.  Personally I enjoy every day here, and I find reading everyone's complaints amusing.  

[atyclb]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

Well no actually most of it is just common sense like avoiding trouble, no wonder you all have so many problems.  Personally I enjoy every day here, and I find reading everyone's complaints amusing.  

 

knowing thai society and taxi drivers, telling a taxi to use a specific route might make him think you have something to hide, either contraband, incorrect immigration status, etc and theoretically the driver could think he can share in extortion money if he goes a route known to have police checkpoints. 

[tropo]

I enjoy my time here too, but that doesn't mean I must bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is perfect. 

 

I want to take this opportunity to thank the OP for bringing this particular police extortion event to our attention. He brought it to our attention with the good intention of making other people aware of the problem and suggesting what they should do if it happens to them.

 

It's a shame some people who have never seen any evil in Thailand want to continue to argue that none of this ever happens and it's our attitude that is the problem... and then suggest we leave if we don't like it.

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Jim7777 said:

Well no actually most of it is just common sense like avoiding trouble, no wonder you all have so many problems.  Personally I enjoy every day here, and I find reading everyone's complaints amusing.  

 

We don't 'all have so many problems'....  but many of us on this thread have offered first hand accounts of where and how the BiB have given us a little hassle during a police stop / search, we hear and read of it happening to others and recognized these stops for what they are... harassment and attempts at getting a little tea-money. For those of us who live here its disappointing to read of and witness such events. 

 

You can't avoid all and any trouble by using your 'fieldcraft'... you can be stopped anywhere at any time - you are no more or less at risk than anyone else. 

 

You would certainly find yourself less amused if asked to exit a taxi (to take a urine test). This happened to me, I was simply sat in the front seat of a Taxi (seatbelt on) turning left at Asoke Intersection at 6pm on a Friday evening. 

 

I imagine you'd also be extremely upset if friends of yours in their 70's where stopped by the BiB and instructed to provide a urine sample on the spot... As reported at the time this was a husband and Wife in their 70's on holiday here simply walking down Sukhumvit road. 

 

These things happen and they were not uncommon up until a couple of years ago, certainly they were common enough to make international headlines and have the Thai Police Chiefs order that the harassment of tourists and foreigners by the Thonglor Police is stopped.

 

These stops could not be avoided through 'common sense'... it could only be avoided through never leaving your apartment. 

 

Your confidence while admirable is a little rose-tinted.

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

knowing thai society and taxi drivers, telling a taxi to use a specific route might make him think you have something to hide, either contraband, incorrect immigration status, etc and theoretically the driver could think he can share in extortion money if he goes a route known to have police checkpoints. 

Erm... you're over thinking the intelligence of the average Taxi driver here !... 

 

It's quite normal to give 'route directions' to a taxi driver, I do it all the time to avoid heavy traffic... Even more so now that we have traffic info on google maps. 

 

 

[Jim7777]

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We don't 'all have so many problems'....  but many of us on this thread have offered first hand accounts of where and how the BiB have given us a little hassle during a police stop / search, we hear and read of it happening to others and recognized these stops for what they are... harassment and attempts at getting a little tea-money. For those of us who live here its disappointing to read of and witness such events. 

 

You can't avoid all and any trouble by using your 'fieldcraft'... you can be stopped anywhere at any time - you are no more or less at risk than anyone else. 

 

You would certainly find yourself less amused if asked to exit a taxi (to take a urine test). This happened to me, I was simply sat in the front seat of a Taxi (seatbelt on) turning left at Asoke Intersection at 6pm on a Friday evening. 

 

I imagine you'd also be extremely upset if friends of yours in their 70's where stopped by the BiB and instructed to provide a urine sample on the spot... As reported at the time this was a husband and Wife in their 70's on holiday here simply walking down Sukhumvit road. 

 

These things happen and they were not uncommon up until a couple of years ago, certainly they were common enough to make international headlines and have the Thai Police Chiefs order that the harassment of tourists and foreigners by the Thonglor Police is stopped.

 

These stops could not be avoided through 'common sense'... it could only be avoided through never leaving your apartment. 

 

Your confidence while admirable is a little rose-tinted.

Sure seems like a lot of problems as much as everyone complains on here.  In all the years I've been traveling here and living here I've never had any trouble with the police.  Gee I guess I must just be luckier than everyone else.  There are very simple solutions to all the problems that everyone is complaining about but I'm not going to offer anymore because I just get a lot of smart ass replies.  

[ericthai]

7 minutes ago, Jim7777 said:

Sure seems like a lot of problems as much as everyone complains on here.  In all the years I've been traveling here and living here I've never had any trouble with the police.  Gee I guess I must just be luckier than everyone else.  There are very simple solutions to all the problems that everyone is complaining about but I'm not going to offer anymore because I just get a lot of smart ass replies.  

Yes you are smarter than every other expat in Thailand.  Ive lived and worked in THailand for 20+ years and during this time have had several occurrences with police.   I've lived in BKK, Surin, Rayong and Ubon and for my work have traveled all over Thailand.  Most of the time i get waved through a check point, but there have been times that the police just want some tea money and they will make something up for you to pay. I have had plenty of times I have had great experience with the police but then a few times not so good.  I dont go out to bars or entertainment places so it's not like you say if you stay away from these places you will be ok. I've had police in Surin, Ubon, Chang Mai, BKK, Rayong, and pai wanting tea money. Then many other times I've had no issues.  It's all luck of the draw!

[Jim7777]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I enjoy my time here too, but that doesn't mean I must bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is perfect. 

 

I want to take this opportunity to thank the OP for bringing this particular police extortion event to our attention. He brought it to our attention with the good intention of making other people aware of the problem and suggesting what they should do if it happens to them.

 

It's a shame some people who have never seen any evil in Thailand want to continue to argue that none of this ever happens and it's our attitude that is the problem... and then suggest we leave if we don't like it.

 

I think it's what I originally said it's all about location where I live the cops are pretty cool.  

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, Jim7777 said:

I think it's what I originally said it's all about location where I live the cops are pretty cool.  

So you finally admit it's down to luck?... or do you run around a town to chat with all the cops before you move in?

 

In big cities, where most of us choose to live, good and bad cops come and go all the time.  

 

[The manic]

On 16/09/2017 at 9:10 AM, tonray said:

Yes...I agree...but it might have sounded a bit better had he said "are you black  ?"

Er.....It's person of colour I believe nowadays. Do try and keep up with the latest liberal vernacular.

[dapperdan]

On 9/19/2017 at 4:26 AM, ericthai said:

good luck with that....

better than doing nothing and sitting in a police station for hours

[hawker9000]

12 hours ago, tropo said:

I enjoy my time here too, but that doesn't mean I must bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is perfect. 

 

I want to take this opportunity to thank the OP for bringing this particular police extortion event to our attention. He brought it to our attention with the good intention of making other people aware of the problem and suggesting what they should do if it happens to them.

 

It's a shame some people who have never seen any evil in Thailand want to continue to argue that none of this ever happens and it's our attitude that is the problem... and then suggest we leave if we don't like it.

 

Some of us can remember when "Land of the Free" actually seemed to mean something WRT Thailand, but not everyone here has been around that long.  To those who only have the last 10 or 20 years to go by, the only thing they have to compare conditions with is wherever their "back home" is.  But all things change, so even those who CAN remember the greater freedom can't reasonably have expected that to last forever.  'Guess it's just a matter of being grateful for the time you had when you had it.

[richard_smith237]

14 hours ago, Jim7777 said:

Sure seems like a lot of problems as much as everyone complains on here.  In all the years I've been traveling here and living here I've never had any trouble with the police.  Gee I guess I must just be luckier than everyone else.  There are very simple solutions to all the problems that everyone is complaining about but I'm not going to offer anymore because I just get a lot of smart ass replies.  

 

Jim7777, you've had an interesting input to this thread so please ignore the smart arsed and baiting responses, sometimes what's written comes across differently and perhaps a little more antagonistically than if it were brought up in face to face conversation where many of us would be far more respectful with each other. The anonymity of this forum clearly breeds a little contempt from which many seem to act. 

I honestly believe that many disagreements we see on these forums would not exist in a 'reality' setting i.e. sat in the pub having a chat where we are able to interact with far greater accuracy and can be far more efficient in conversation to make our point. 

 

 

Now, with all that said, back on topic : I do have a couple of questions for you.

1) Are you of the opinion that you would not be pulled over by the police at any time and the Police would never attempt to 'get a little tea money'? either because of your manner, demeanour, appearance, location etc? 

2)  Your post above intrigued me. What are the 'simple solutions' to the problems (getting stopped and potentially shaken down by the BiB) ?

(*Please don't give is the 'go home if you don't like it' answer - for obvious reasons thats not an option for many of us and it doesn't shine a bright light on the poster of this sentiment).

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Yep... there are countless videos and first hand encounters posted publicly not only by Westerners here, but also by Immigrant labour being targeted and extorted... and not only that, to what seems to be a far greater degree by Thai's - as posted in the Thai Webforum Pantip.com.

 

Our Nanny (from Myanmar) was on a day off when the BiB attempted to round her up and all her Burmese friends. One of their male friends attempted to video this on his phone and was beaten up by the Police.

 

The difference for Westerners is that in general they are more confident so the 'pinch' is often more creative or follows real regulations... i.e. not carrying their passport - which not many do for obvious reasons. This has been taken advantage of by some more nefarious police officers in the Thonglor - Asoke area in the past (as widely reported at the time). 

 

Of course for Thai's the 'tea money' is often demanded after a minor traffic infraction, wrong lane on a motorcycle etc going through the lights on amber, license checks etc or breaking some time variable traffic flow which varies too frequently to be known... in these cases the BiB often love to set up road blocks and generate revenue... The Public know the Game, the BiB know the public know they game, they just don't care and are hated as a result.

 

It is the hypocrisy which upsets - IF the BiB were able to enforce these regulations for the safety of others and had genuine concern for the greater good people would be far more forgiving, tolerant and perhaps even follow the regulations with a greater level of discipline, however, the game is one of simple 'cat & mouse'... the BiB don't want everyone to follow every rule perfectly otherwise it would be more difficult to secure their revenue stream.

 

 

With all of that said, I'd like to apply a little balance - Getting pulled over in Thailand and stopped by the Police is not a common event. But, its just that when it happens we know the reasons are not borne of genuine enforcement of any laws but simply to obtain a little cash....  on the surface its relatively harmless, but the 'greater good' is quickly destroyed as this is the tip of the corruption-iceberg, in its simples terms a little tea money for minor infractions costs the city billions of baht as riders and drivers ignore traffic regulations and create gridlock...  

 

To be honest, I'm not sure who's worse - the general public or the Police... but what does stink somewhat is that the police are supposedly there to serve and protect the public and we have to knowingly face this irritating facade on a daily basis. 

 

 

[theoldgit]

Post in breach of Forum Rules removed:

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[atyclb]

google . "Hua Mak traffic police being investigated for extortion" to see a relevant story but extorting thais. apparently the army was notified.

 

[Xaos]

On 9/16/2017 at 1:58 PM, atyclb said:

 

normal traffic stop police that try to get cash from motorists

 

 

i asked them what station they are from and they said phaya thai but would not take me there.

 

they play the "inconvenience you" game .    finally one asked for money to buy "cola" as in coca cola.

Cops from phaya thai tried scam me too. 

got stopped in my car they said i drove on bus line, while i followed every one else.

 

Anyway he asked for 1000 cash I said No just give me ticket.

 

So he wrote ticket 1000thb and on police station they said for this is 500. So paid 500

[bkk6060]

Wow. So many stories.  Some think all the cops are bad????

Hey, maybe one should educate themselves and obey all the laws here and there will be no problem

I have never had a problem.

For some figure it out, it is not your country.....

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow. So many stories.  Some think all the cops are bad????

Hey, maybe one should educate themselves and obey all the laws here and there will be no problem

I have never had a problem.

For some figure it out, it is not your country.....

 

 

ignorance is bliss

[ericthai]

6 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow. So many stories.  Some think all the cops are bad????

Hey, maybe one should educate themselves and obey all the laws here and there will be no problem

I have never had a problem.

For some figure it out, it is not your country.....

Once you are here longer you will find out.. I dont think anyone said all the police are bad.  I have met some great police. I have had the police come out and do their job properly. However there are a good number that are looking to make some tea money.  I've been stopped for speeding I told them no way, they said they had a photo and showed me a picture of someone else car, they refused to admit that the car in the picture was not mine and insisted it was and after 20mins I finally gave in and gave him the 100B

If they want money they will make things up.  

[atyclb]

14 minutes ago, ericthai said:

Once you are here longer you will find out.. I dont think anyone said all the police are bad.  I have met some great police. I have had the police come out and do their job properly. However there are a good number that are looking to make some tea money.  I've been stopped for speeding I told them no way, they said they had a photo and showed me a picture of someone else car, they refused to admit that the car in the picture was not mine and insisted it was and after 20mins I finally gave in and gave him the 100B

If they want money they will make things up.  

 

it must be hell for the % of good cops

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow. So many stories.  Some think all the cops are bad????

Hey, maybe one should educate themselves and obey all the laws here and there will be no problem

I have never had a problem.

For some figure it out, it is not your country.....

 

 

So if you obey all the laws you will never get stoped by the Police in Thailand...  the posters who say otherwise must all be telling porkie-pies...  

And of course, because you have never had a problem, anyone else who has must also be lying ?... Do you see the fundamental flaw in this logic?

Ok, so its not our country... But what about the Thai's who get fleeced for the same things? IMO the BiB don't really discriminate, they are opportunists and try to get away with whatever they can to with whomever they can. 

 

Your post smacks of naivety and bravado.

 

 

[tropo]

25 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

So if you obey all the laws you will never get stoped by the Police in Thailand...  the posters who say otherwise must all be telling porkie-pies...  

And of course, because you have never had a problem, anyone else who has must also be lying ?... Do you see the fundamental flaw in this logic?

Ok, so its not our country... But what about the Thai's who get fleeced for the same things? IMO the BiB don't really discriminate, they are opportunists and try to get away with whatever they can to with whomever they can. 

 

Your post smacks of naivety and bravado.

 

 

I wear a helmet so they can't really see my face. There's no amount of bravado that can prevent people from being stopped - it's random and luck. For example, I've been flagged through roadside checkpoints because they were too busy processing others... it was just a case of going through at the right time. Pure luck.

 

There is one thing that has saved me being stopped on several occasions. My wife and I carrying a lot of shopping from a supermarket. They look at us and decide to let us go through. It's a sight to see us carrying a whole trolley of shopping on the motorcycle.

[Jim7777]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

So if you obey all the laws you will never get stoped by the Police in Thailand...  the posters who say otherwise must all be telling porkie-pies...  

And of course, because you have never had a problem, anyone else who has must also be lying ?... Do you see the fundamental flaw in this logic?

Ok, so its not our country... But what about the Thai's who get fleeced for the same things? IMO the BiB don't really discriminate, they are opportunists and try to get away with whatever they can to with whomever they can. 

 

Your post smacks of naivety and bravado.

 

 

Just avoid trouble the best you can and always maintain situational awareness.  You're living in a foreign country and there will always be risks.  

[atyclb]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

So if you obey all the laws you will never get stoped by the Police in Thailand...  the posters who say otherwise must all be telling porkie-pies...  

And of course, because you have never had a problem, anyone else who has must also be lying ?... Do you see the fundamental flaw in this logic?

Ok, so its not our country... But what about the Thai's who get fleeced for the same things? IMO the BiB don't really discriminate, they are opportunists and try to get away with whatever they can to with whomever they can. 

 

Your post smacks of naivety and bravado.

 

 

 

and lack of critical thinking

[Jim7777]

On 9/21/2017 at 12:48 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Jim7777, you've had an interesting input to this thread so please ignore the smart arsed and baiting responses, sometimes what's written comes across differently and perhaps a little more antagonistically than if it were brought up in face to face conversation where many of us would be far more respectful with each other. The anonymity of this forum clearly breeds a little contempt from which many seem to act. 

I honestly believe that many disagreements we see on these forums would not exist in a 'reality' setting i.e. sat in the pub having a chat where we are able to interact with far greater accuracy and can be far more efficient in conversation to make our point. 

 

 

Now, with all that said, back on topic : I do have a couple of questions for you.

1) Are you of the opinion that you would not be pulled over by the police at any time and the Police would never attempt to 'get a little tea money'? either because of your manner, demeanour, appearance, location etc? 

2)  Your post above intrigued me. What are the 'simple solutions' to the problems (getting stopped and potentially shaken down by the BiB) ?

(*Please don't give is the 'go home if you don't like it' answer - for obvious reasons thats not an option for many of us and it doesn't shine a bright light on the poster of this sentiment).

 

 

 

Just avoid trouble as much as possible and maintain situational awareness and know your area as best you can.  We have to remember that we are living in a foreign country and there are always going to be risks involved.  We can't control everything that goes on over here so if we're going to live here we have to be prepared to accept certain risks and be as careful as possible.  Nothing in life is certain.  Sure I could potentially become a victim but where I live probably not.  I'm paranoid by nature which actually helps me avoid trouble.  It's just little things like for example when you go into a restaurant pick the seat where you can best see everyone coming and going in a spot preferably where you have the best vantage point.  Typically I don't spend a lot of time hanging out in tourist areas and my Thai wife of 22 years is almost always with me and sometimes her family is with us as well if we're going on a trip which also helps especially on our trips down to Bangkok.  If you're with Thai people especially a family the cops usually don't mess with you.  I've seen the checkpoints and from what I've seen they normally only flag people down who are speeding.  I have no doubt that they single out foreigners but I've never seen it.  And yes your demeanour and appearance does have a little to do with it.  It's hard to explain I've just had years of experience all over the world in a lot of exotic countries and specialized training that the regular military doesn't get.  Also the dumb foreigner act works as well sometimes depending on the situation.  There are a lot of scenarios that one could find themselves in.  The best thing to do is be a good planner.