Why Buddhism is True

[camerata]

Not really. A practising Buddhist would teach others how to put on the rubber sandals.

[oldhippy]

19 minutes ago, camerata said:

Not really. A practising Buddhist would teach others how to put on the rubber sandals.

And if the others cannot afford rubber sandals?

I suppose that a practising good buddhist would then possibly make merrit and donate, but he would not try to change the system that is responsible for the others not being able to afford rubber sandals.

 

I believe western philosophy has half the answer, buddhism has the other half.

 

A very very small number of westerners see the shortcomings of western philosophies, but are any buddhists aware of the shortcomings of their philosophy?

 

 

 

[camerata]

Metaphors are rarely perfect. In this case the rubber sandals represent mental cultivation, so there is no cost and it is available to all.

 

The Buddha's teachings are available to all. If I lose a leg in an accident there is nothing I can do to regain my former physical wholeness, but there is a lot I can do (using the Dhamma) to deal with the resulting mental anguish.

[oldhippy]

3 hours ago, camerata said:

Metaphors are rarely perfect. In this case the rubber sandals represent mental cultivation, so there is no cost and it is available to all.

 

The Buddha's teachings are available to all. If I lose a leg in an accident there is nothing I can do to regain my former physical wholeness, but there is a lot I can do (using the Dhamma) to deal with the resulting mental anguish.

What you say is true.

If you lose a leg, buddhism surely can help with the mental anguish.

Being able to accept the inevitable, the unchangeable is a most usefull part of buddhist philosophy.

 

But would it not be helpfull too,  to have a proper (affordable for all) health care system as well?

A prosthetic leg? Paid for by the lucky taxpayer (lucky for not needing an artificial leg).

The rich USA shows us how the (non) existence of such a system is based on  a (western) philosophical choice.

 

Again your example seems to prove my point of needing a combination of western and buddhist philosophies.

[VincentRJ]

I tend to agree with 'oldhippy'. We have the marvelous opportunity in the modern era to get 'the best of both worlds'.

 

We can potentially appreciate and learn from the wise teachings of the Buddha, whilst also taking advantage of the benefits of modern science and technology.

[camerata]

The author of the book has written an article, Is Mindfulness Meditation BS? 

 

A couple of quotes:

 

" It was a very strange thing to have an unpleasant feeling cease to be unpleasant without it really going away. "

 

" The not-self experience isn’t strictly binary. You don’t have to think of it as a threshold that you either manage to finally cross, to transformative effect, or forever fall short of, getting no edification whatsoever. As strange as it may sound, you can, with even a fairly modest daily meditation practice, experience a little bit of not-self. "

 

[Rancid]

I don't think Buddhism has an anthropomorphized devil as with the Christian version. Often things in ancient texts are said in parables, the initiated will take away one meaning and the masses another, similar to the older ME philosophies such as Chaldean, Egyptian or Zoroastrian. And no, I'm no initiate.

 

Regarding the Rohingha in Burma, there may be more to that story than what is reported as training camps for them have been identified in ME...do the math.

[superglue]

I got sober in 1984 via AA. It was suggested that you get a Power greater than yourself. I was never comfortable with Christianity so Buddhism won by default & its principles were easy to accept.

Magnificent positive changes have occurred to me since. 

[oldhippy]

13 minutes ago, Rancid said:

I don't think Buddhism has an anthropomorphized devil as with the Christian version. Often things in ancient texts are said in parables, the initiated will take away one meaning and the masses another, similar to the older ME philosophies such as Chaldean, Egyptian or Zoroastrian. And no, I'm no initiate.

 

Regarding the Rohingha in Burma, there may be more to that story than what is reported as training camps for them have been identified in ME...do the math.

QUOTE: I don't think Buddhism has an anthropomorphized devil as with the Christian version. Often things in ancient texts are said in parables, the initiated will take away one meaning and the masses another,

 

And are the initiated trying to explain the true meaning to the masses, or are they too occupied with their own private enlightenment?

 

QUOTE: Regarding the Rohingha in Burma, there may be more to that story than what is reported as training camps for them have been identified in ME.

 

All 500.000 refugees go to training camps in the ME? The entire world - except China - has it wrong?

 

The theory of buddhism is one thing (inspiring but not the ultimate answer).

The reality of buddhism is another thing (sometimes inspiring, but often as ugly as all other theories when put into practice).

 

[oldhippy]

38 minutes ago, superglue said:

I got sober in 1984 via AA. It was suggested that you get a Power greater than yourself. I was never comfortable with Christianity so Buddhism won by default & its principles were easy to accept.

Magnificent positive changes have occurred to me since. 

First of all: congratulations!

 

What you say about that Power you found in / thanks to buddhism sounds great - but I have read the exact same thing being claimed by others, based on christianity, and even by atheists.

That suggests that this Power is not related to any religion or philosophy.

What could then be the nature of this Power?

Do you have any suggestions? What exactly helped you cross the line?

 

 

[Denim]

I'll  Go along with Dr Suzuki on this.

 

The more you talk about it and attempt to analyse it , the further you move away from it. The thicker the book ,the less it contains .

[superglue]

Oldhippy

My mission is NOT to try to convince you.

For me, spirituality is DYNAMIC.

Initially, the God concept was unacceptable to me.

Now it is a matter of utilizing both the Christian God & the principles of Buddhism.

 

TOMORROW?

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, superglue said:

Oldhippy

My mission is NOT to try to convince you.

For me, spirituality is DYNAMIC.

Initially, the God concept was unacceptable to me.

Now it is a matter of utilizing both the Christian God & the principles of Buddhism.

 

TOMORROW?

superglue,

I did not feel challenged, nor did I try to challenge you, but maybe I gave that impression - English is not my first language.

I just want to learn from others' experiences, at 66 I am still looking for answers.

Yes, I found some answers, but abandoned them...

At the risk of being concidered a troll or a weirdo, may I say that the best answer I found so far was Michael Palin in Monty Pythons Meaning of Life: Life is short and has no meaning, so enjoy it while it lasts, and don't bugger it up for others.

 

 

 

 

 

[superglue]

oldhippy

The principles of Buddhism are such that suffering continues until one attains enlightenment.

As such rebirth is part of the process.

[Ruffian Dick]

1 hour ago, superglue said:

oldhippy

The principles of Buddhism are such that suffering continues until one attains enlightenment.

As such rebirth is part of the process.

Literal rebirth in your opinion, or is this a metaphor?

[Ruffian Dick]

On 9/24/2017 at 4:28 AM, VincentRJ said:

I would then have the time to read all the e-books on my Kindle. 

 

Anyway, isn't it a major Buddhist principle that only the present moment exists. Worrying about what might happen in the future is ridiculous. Trying to be mindful all the time is good advice and should reduce the risk of accidents occurring. That's all one can do, and avoid taking unnecessary risks of course.

I think that the "here and now" concept is from Zen, although I don't know if other sects of Buddhism recognize it.

For Americans anyway, it's usually Zen when we think of Buddhist philosophy, but this is often very alien to many Buddhists in Asia.

But "worrying about the future" could be re-framed as "conscious of the law of cause and effect".

[superglue]

1 hour ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Literal rebirth in your opinion, or is this a metaphor?

I suggest that an intensive study of the basics of Buddhism will verify my research.

[trd]

First of all: congratulations!
 
What you say about that Power you found in / thanks to buddhism sounds great - but I have read the exact same thing being claimed by others, based on christianity, and even by atheists.
That suggests that this Power is not related to any religion or philosophy.
What could then be the nature of this Power?
Do you have any suggestions? What exactly helped you cross the line?
 
 

Truth has nothing to do with Buddhism or any other ism, although Buddhism has some very good pointers to it. The Power is in realizing there is no separate self, that there is no difference or separation between awareness, mind, senses and objects. It is all one spontaneous flow of life where there is no self to suffer.

[superglue]

Buddhism is the ABSOLUTE truth.

[oldhippy]

3 hours ago, superglue said:

Buddhism is the ABSOLUTE truth.

Are you serious?

Which buddhism are you talking about?

I think some people in Sri Lanka and Myanmar will disagree with you.

And if I am not mistaken, questioning everything is an essential part of old style buddhism.

[superglue]

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Are you serious?

Which buddhism are you talking about?

I think some people in Sri Lanka and Myanmar will disagree with you.

And if I am not mistaken, questioning everything is an essential part of old style buddhism.

 

My favorite Buddhist books were written by Dr Dhammananda - a Shri Lankan who migrated to Malaysia - 'Gems of Buddhist Wisdom' & 'How to Live without Fear & Worry.'

Theravadan based.

[oldhippy]

11 minutes ago, superglue said:

 

My favorite Buddhist books were written by Dr Dhammananda - a Shri Lankan who migrated to Malaysia - 'Gems of Buddhist Wisdom' & 'How to Live without Fear & Worry.'

Theravadan based.

You are clearly a true believer.

The upside is that it helped you win the battle against Demon Alcohol, and that it improved your well feeling.

The downside is that it does not facilitate discussions with non believers.

[superglue]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You are clearly a true believer.

The upside is that it helped you win the battle against Demon Alcohol, and that it improved your well feeling.

The downside is that it does not facilitate discussions with non believers.

 

Your last sentence - I do not agree/concur with.

I submit that I am broadminded.

[VincentRJ]

On 10/28/2017 at 9:51 PM, trd said:

On 10/27/2017 at 8:22 AM, oldhippy said:

First of all: congratulations!
 
What you say about that Power you found in / thanks to buddhism sounds great - but I have read the exact same thing being claimed by others, based on christianity, and even by atheists.
That suggests that this Power is not related to any religion or philosophy.
What could then be the nature of this Power?
Do you have any suggestions? What exactly helped you cross the line?
 
 

Truth has nothing to do with Buddhism or any other ism, although Buddhism has some very good pointers to it. The Power is in realizing there is no separate self, that there is no difference or separation between awareness, mind, senses and objects. It is all one spontaneous flow of life where there is no self to suffer.

Trd,
I hope you are well and enjoying life ( in Phuket is it?).

 

I think your statement that 'truth has nothing to do with Buddhism' is a bit illogical if you then go on to say that 'Buddhism has some very good pointers to it'. If Buddhism has some very good pointers to truth, then it has at least something to do with truth.

 

However, I think what you are trying to say is that all the teachings and guidance offered by Buddhism are like a boat or raft used to cross a river. Once you've reached the other side, the raft can, and should, be discarded. Wouldn't you agree? 

[superglue]

I have posted to this thread but your post is not to me.

[trd]

Trd,
I hope you are well and enjoying life ( in Phuket is it?).
 
I think your statement that 'truth has nothing to do with Buddhism' is a bit illogical if you then go on to say that 'Buddhism has some very good pointers to it'. If Buddhism has some very good pointers to truth, then it has at least something to do with truth.
 
However, I think what you are trying to say is that all the teachings and guidance offered by Buddhism are like a boat or raft used to cross a river. Once you've reached the other side, the raft can, and should, be discarded. Wouldn't you agree? [emoji2]

Yes Phuket Vincent. I hope you're doing well too. What I mean is that Buddhism doesn't have any exclusive rights over the truth because truth is prior to mind, prior to thinking. It has nothing to do with concepts or ideas, but certain pointers which are of course intellectual in nature can point you back to the primordial source, your natural state of objectless awareness.

[Ruffian Dick]

On 10/29/2017 at 2:02 AM, superglue said:

I submit that I am broadminded.

And we must accept this on faith.

[superglue]

19 minutes ago, Ruffian Dick said:

And we must accept this on faith.

'MUST'

 

On what basis?

[rockyysdt]

On 29/10/2017 at 3:51 PM, trd said:

On 28/10/2017 at 2:22 AM, oldhippy said:

First of all: congratulations!
 
What you say about that Power you found in / thanks to buddhism sounds great - but I have read the exact same thing being claimed by others, based on christianity, and even by atheists.
That suggests that this Power is not related to any religion or philosophy.
What could then be the nature of this Power?
Do you have any suggestions? What exactly helped you cross the line?
 
 

Truth has nothing to do with Buddhism or any other ism, although Buddhism has some very good pointers to it. The Power is in realizing there is no separate self, that there is no difference or separation between awareness, mind, senses and objects. It is all one spontaneous flow of life where there is no self to suffer.

Hi TRD.

 

Aren't these impermanent (awareness, mind, senses and objects) where as Citta (heart/mind) was never born (that which was never born, can't die: deathless)?

 

How do these (awareness, mind, senses and objects) and the need to understand them as inseparate assist with realization and awakening (purification of Citta)?

 

Along with Vincent, good to see you posting again.

 

 

[trd]

Hi TRD.
 
Aren't these impermanent (awareness, mind, senses and objects) where as Citta (heart/mind) was never born (that which was never born, can't die: deathless)?
 
How do these (awareness, mind, senses and objects) and the need to understand them as inseparate assist with realization and awakening (purification of Citta)?
 
Along with Vincent, good to see you posting again.
 
 

Hi Rocky where have you been?

Awareness is prior to Citta. Citta is impermanent. Awareness is without boundaries and is therefore beginningless and endless. It is unborn. Citta is dependent on awareness but awareness has no dependency on Citta. There is a language issue because sometimes pure mind or clear mind can be used to describe awareness. I think you would call this Sati in Theravada and Rigpa in Mahayana.

Neither can be understood as such because it is beyond any concept, but have to be experienced directly through practice.