'Disaster looms,' says head of UK's anti-Brexit party

[dundee48]

5 hours ago, inThailand said:

Aren't you the same ones who want to can Donald, but on the other side of the pond keep Brexit?

No.

[Nigel Garvie]

OK it's Brexicide, for all of those who want to go back to the empire, and are dumb enough to actually believe that, what is written in the Sun and the Daily Heil is for their benefit and not the benefit of the super rich owners.

We are leaving the largest richest market in the world, no wonder the hard headed financiers have devalued the pound and downgraded the forecasts for the British economy to "Heading for bucket case". 

The most amusing thing about this clip is the comment about expats in Spain, although I guess even the expats in Thailand may have learnt a few words of Thai.

 

 

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

We did see sense, that's why we are giving the evil European dictatorship the heave-ho ! There will be no 2nd referendum. About time the remoaners just shut up and accepted they lost. 

Farage made it clear ( when he thought he had lost ) that he would fight on and urged his supporters to do the same. I think we should accept the result and all pull together but am appalled by the level of hypocrisy on display.

[dunroaming]

The probable outcome will be that May will be unseated and someone else will be driving the divorce bus.  In that case nobody has got a clue which way direction the bus will go in.

 

It is also probable that when the "deal" is made it will go to parliament for the final say.  The question then is do the negotiators go back to get a different deal or do we just leave with no deal at all?  Of course it may be that we work out a great deal that goes through seamlessly.  Hard to believe that is going to happen though.  

 

Anyone thinking that this Brexit is going to plan is quite honestly delusional!

[Krataiboy]

Yeah, but. . . 

 

Did Cable by some chance miss what that bibulous buffoon Juncker had to say in his disastrous "state of the union" address last Wednesday?

 

A disaster it certainly was for the Remoaners, desperate to make a case for ratting on the referendum result - and music to the ears of Leavers now able to say "I told you so".

 

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.

 

With his implied support for a more federalist and controlling EU with an enforced single currency and its own army (denied for years and now finally out of the bag as a "defence force"), Cable has destroyed any prospect of a political comeback for himself or his party.

 

[aright]

2 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

We are leaving the largest richest market in the world, 

 

 

In May 2017 European Unemployment Rates were:

Greece 22.5%, Spain 17.7%, Italy 11.3%, Cyprus 11%, Croatia 10.7%, France 9.6%,

Portugal 9.4%..................... UK 4.5%, Germany 3.9%.

There are 25 countries in the EU with higher unemployment rates than the UK. 

Richest market!! Arguable!!

Successful market for its people??? Hardly, considering the unemployment rates.

The UK at 4.5% is a good performance made despite the EU. Imagine what we can do when the shackles come off.

 

 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

Yeah, but. . . 

 

Did Cable by some chance miss what that bibulous buffoon Juncker had to say in his disastrous "state of the union" address last Wednesday?

 

A disaster it certainly was for the Remoaners, desperate to make a case for ratting on the referendum result - and music to the ears of Leavers now able to say "I told you so".

 

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.

 

With his implied support for a more federalist and controlling EU with an enforced single currency and its own army (denied for years and now finally out of the bag as a "defence force"), Cable has destroyed any prospect of a political comeback for himself or his party.

 

Your position is clear.  You prefer to still believe the lies you were told by the Brexit camp (both sides lied) rather than see the reality which was exposed after the result.  Good for you to stick to your view even in the face of massive proof that Brexit will not deliver what you voted for. 

 

However it must be understandable to you that those of us who now see Brexit for what it really is and the chaos it has already become, that we have the right to try to stop this dreadful mistake.  Not in your view but most definitely in ours!

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, aright said:

The UK at 4.5% is a good performance made despite the EU. Imagine what we can do when the shackles come off.

Yes it is good. Of course after Brexit and all the EU workers who make up the employed figures have gone then the unemployment will not really change much.  Yes I did so "not" change much because the people unemployed in the UK are pretty much happy with their lot.  That is why Britain relies on overseas workers, not only to do the menial jobs but also the doctors, nurses, carers, IT professionals etc. etc.

 

Still on the up side, although we will struggle to fulfil all the vacancies and the NHS slips further into chaos at least in the  EU countries they will get their skilled people back. 

[aright]

50 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Your position is clear.  You prefer to still believe the lies you were told by the Brexit camp (both sides lied) rather than see the reality which was exposed after the result. 

and you prefer to live in Mr Junckers vision of a super-state where you will have very little say in outcomes. Did you vote for a European Army? Did you vote to force march all European states into monetary union? Did you vote for a European Finance Minister? Did you vote for an all powerful President of the EU? Did you vote for a Europe where majority voting determines Tax and Foreign Policy?  In short are you happy to live in a federation where democracy has been cast aside?

The EU is a quasi-totalitarian, undemocratic state. Their Banks are financially precarious and the so called recovery is as a result of quantitative easing. The European Union concept is flawed ; its overriding reality is more political than economic.

I am sure Mr Juncker will be happy to see us leave.......he sees us as the awkward squad. For our part we have looked at Mr Juncker's prescription for Europe and decided we don't want to be a part of it. You obviously like his plans, do you like them enough to go and live in Europe.......Good luck. 

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

If they lose then that must make it 1 - 1.. If that is so will there be a decider played at Wembley like the play-off finals and if its still a draw will they then go to penalties .?

HBO?

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Farage made it clear ( when he thought he had lost ) that he would fight on and urged his supporters to do the same. I think we should accept the result and all pull together but am appalled by the level of hypocrisy on display.

Farage has been fighting the EU for years. No hypocrisy there. He would have tried again, I'm sure. But he would have lost the chance and support to get the UK out.

 

If remain had won, then the majority of leave voters would have accepted the vote but obviously this cannot be said of the remainers!! 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

OK it's Brexicide, for all of those who want to go back to the empire, and are dumb enough to actually believe that, what is written in the Sun and the Daily Heil is for their benefit and not the benefit of the super rich owners.

We are leaving the largest richest market in the world, no wonder the hard headed financiers have devalued the pound and downgraded the forecasts for the British economy to "Heading for bucket case". 

The most amusing thing about this clip is the comment about expats in Spain, although I guess even the expats in Thailand may have learnt a few words of Thai.

 

 

And you want anyone to believe your propaganda?

 

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, aright said:

It sometimes helps to remind ourselves why we voted out.

This from a letter in the DT

 

Why we should leave the EU (or what do we get in return for our EU membership fee?). In return for the £12,000 million here are a few of the things we could have done without the EU, and a few to look forward to if we don’t leave:

1. Would we have been able to destroy our UK fishing industry if we had not been in the EU? Answer - yes, but we wouldn't.
2. Would we have been able to forge free trade agreements with any country we liked on our terms, including the EU block, if we had not been in the EU - answer yes, of course.
3. Would we have massive immigration and have no legal ability to deny benefits to those immigrants, even though they have not contributed, if we had not been in the EU? Answer - no.
4. Would we have paid our farmers to leave fields fallow, give massive subsidies to large unproductive land owners such as the royal family, whilst importing massive amounts of food, if we had not been in the EU? Answer – of course not.
5. Would UK nationals have been able to settle in other EU countries if we were not in the EU? Answer - yes, but not if you came with nothing and expected to be provided with a living for nothing, which is the situation elsewhere in the world, not just in the EU.

6. Are we destroying our right of self-determination? Answer – yes we are. The Europarl contribution? The toothless body can't change a thing Brussels decides to do. "The European Parliament may approve or reject a legislative proposal, or propose amendments to it. The Council is not legally obliged to take account of Parliament's opinion but in line with the case-law of the Court of Justice, it must not take a decision without having received it". 

7. Laws: I want my laws made by the body I have a say in electing, not a group of unelected people in Brussels pandering to the requirements of Germany and France and voting down UK objections every time under the majority voting system. There are now more than 40,000 legal acts in the EU. There are also 15,000 Court verdicts and 62,000 international standards, all of which must be respected and obeyed by all citizens and companies in the EU.
8. Will we be able to set our own foreign policy in future? Answer - not if the EU gets its way. Military: if the EU has the army as it wants, and national armies cease to exist as the EU wants, and foreign policy is set by Brussels that may or may not reflect the needs and aspirations of UK as the EU wants, who would control this army? Who would it fight for? What happens if the UK disagrees but is voted down? What happens to the UK nuclear deterrent?

9. Is the EU an institution that treats all members fairly and equitably? Answer – no it isn’t. The Greeks remember when they couldn't access any of their money a few months ago, and this was entirely due to the ECB flexing its muscles to coerce the Greek government into doing as it was told!

10. Can we set our own financial policy in the future? Not within the EU. We will be required to join the Euro this decade by EU law. The EU wants a common financial policy and common tax rates, set by the ECB.

11. Do all MS obey the EU laws, or are punished for not doing so? Answer – no. The migrant crisis: We watch as the French fail to apply EU laws as the laws don't suite them at the moment. The French allow migrants to set up camp to daily try to force their way into a sovereign territory that has rejected their 'application to enter' instead of processing them as require by EU law. Other MS simply wave them through, contrary to EU law. Other MS refuse to share the burden and erect razor wire border fences. Germany has run an illegal trade surplus for many years, other countries run up illegal deficits, all ignored of course.

12. Do we need the EU to alleviating a skills shortage in the UK? Answer – no. Our current immigration laws allow people with skills to enter and work in the UK. The EU just allows a million low skilled workers to come to the UK to take low paid jobs.

13. Is inward investment into the UK reliant on EU membership? Answer – no. Inward investment into the UK continues to grow after the Brexit vote.

SO, WHY ARE WE A MEMBER STATE? ANYONE

Plenty of work there so thanks. The EU major members even continually ignore there own rules when it suits them! 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

10 hours ago, puck2 said:

Another point of view.

Why are the Brexeteers so afraid of a second voting ? It's not a voting about a soccer club. It's too important for UK's future.

 

If they win again, it's confirmed by the majority of the voters. All okay.

 

But if they lose - what they are afraid of - it is confirmed that they have been deceived by some blockheads,  as Johnson for example. It would be a correction by the MAJORITY, who now  know more about the real problems and  about the former propaganda for Brexit. The last election already showed this tendency.

 

And yet, the Conservatives still won by a considerable margin over the next largest party.

[NeoDinosaw]

14 hours ago, inThailand said:

Once the details of Brexit are known and if the pound does not recover, won't a second referendum show all this was a big waste of time and money?

yes.  It will show that the British voters should never believe what the buffoon Boris tells us.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

yes.  It will show that the British voters should never believe what the buffoon Boris tells us.

Not many of them listened to Boris. Their minds were made up long before the vote. 

[dunroaming]

41 minutes ago, aright said:

and you prefer to live in Mr Junckers vision of a super-state where you will have very little say in outcomes. Did you vote for a European Army? Did you vote to force march all European states into monetary union? Did you vote for a European Finance Minister? Did you vote for an all powerful President of the EU? Did you vote for a Europe where majority voting determines Tax and Foreign Policy?  In short are you happy to live in a federation where democracy has been cast aside?

The EU is a quasi-totalitarian, undemocratic state. Their Banks are financially precarious and the so called recovery is as a result of quantitative easing. The European Union concept is flawed ; its overriding reality is more political than economic.

I am sure Mr Juncker will be happy to see us leave.......he sees us as the awkward squad. For our part we have looked at Mr Juncker's prescription for Europe and decided we don't want to be a part of it. You obviously like his plans, do you like them enough to go and live in Europe.......Good luck. 

The EU is mightily flawed and has been for some considerable time.  You either stay in and fight for change as Macron will or you leave and have no voice.  Britain has chosen to leave but cannot loosen all the apron strings.  It has been conceded by Davis and the Brexit brigade that we will still have to accept many of the European rules and pay in after we leave except that we will have no seat at the table.

 

Now there is a solution that would work reasonably well and that is the Norwegian system where we are out of the control of the EU but still get access to the single market.  It would still mean the free movement of people but we will still have to accept that with any deal negotiated.  Anyway the Brexit supporters keep claiming it is not about immigration.

 

The thing is that for all it's flaws (and there are many), is the UK going to be poorer or richer when we leave.  Brexiteers believe we will be richer and the Remoaners (I am happy to be called that) think we will be much poorer.  Only time will tell.

[dunroaming]

19 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

And yet, the Conservatives still won by a considerable margin over the next largest party.

But a much decreased margin from before.  Why do you think that May had to go cap in hand to the DUP?

[dunroaming]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not many of them listened to Boris. Their minds were made up long before the vote. 

Well certainly all the UKIP fascists.  No question about that.

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

yes.  It will show that the British voters should never believe what the buffoon Boris tells us.

I think the buffoons were the people that believed him, the brexiters had the nous not to believe Osborne!

[aright]

55 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

 

 

The thing is that for all it's flaws (and there are many), is the UK going to be poorer or richer when we leave.  Brexiteers believe we will be richer and the Remoaners (I am happy to be called that) think we will be much poorer.  Only time will tell.

I think leavers feel we will be better off and more happy in conscience because we will be sovereign (democratic and self governed)

Similarly Remainers feel we will be better off and as you say only time will tell. What you haven't told us is why you prefer to live in a totalitarian undemocratic state.  What do you think the makeup of the EU will be 10 years from now?

 

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

I think leavers feel we will be better off and more happy in conscience because we will be sovereign (democratic and self governed)

Similarly Remainers feel we will be better off and as you say only time will tell. What you haven't told us is why you prefer to live in a totalitarian undemocratic state.  What do you think the makeup of the EU will be 10 years from now?

 

Well I think by being in the EU you have a chance to change systems and I am sure that will happen given time.  However I totally accept and have said several times that the EU is far from perfect and needs re-structuring.  It was a close call for me when it came to the referendum vote.  If by leaving the EU it would cause it to collapse and then be re-invented for the twenty first century then that would be a good thing.  In the end I decided (after many discussions with friends in the city and others tied to politics) that the risk would be too great and because what the Brexit boys were saying didn't add up that I would vote remain.

 

I do have a vested interest as well.  I do business with Europe and always have done so being out will cost me dearly.  Also a weak pound is a problem but most of all I want my son to have all the doors open for him in the future. After he has flown the nest I will be off to live somewhere with a better climate than the UK and Mediterranean countries are high on the list.

[aright]

I respect your opinion and I would say; in 1975 my vote for Europe felt like a vote for the future. 40 years on in light of the EU's track record its future has far less appeal.

[Nigel Garvie]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

And you want anyone to believe your propaganda?

 

You should look this word up in a dictionary. Propaganda is what (Mainly) politicians disseminate eg information of a misleading nature to persuade people a certain point of view. Nigel Farage is a good example of someone who does this. I was just expressing my opinion, not attempting to persuade anyone. The youtube clip incidentally is political comedy, nothing to do with propaganda. 

[Grouse]

23 hours ago, JoePai said:

12 representatives in the 650-seat parliament

 

Sums up what people think of the Liberals 

The problem is that people don't think...

[Grouse]

23 hours ago, nauseus said:

Vote til they get it right, right?

It's so important that checking is entirely reasonable. However Vince is not pushing for a rerun; he wants a referendum on the terms.

[Grouse]

23 hours ago, JoePai said:

12 representatives in the 650-seat parliament

 

Sums up what people think of the Liberals 

UKIP?

[rixalex]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Anyway the Brexit supporters keep claiming it is not about immigration.

No they don't. The lie that Brexit supporters are constantly having to dispel, is that supporting Brexit means being anti-immigration, means being against foreigners, mean being a racist and all the rest of the nonsense that gets spouted in a pathetic attempt to denigrate people on the other side of the argument.

 

Brexit supporters want a fair immigration policy that doesn't arbitrarily allow people from one nation to walk in completely unchecked, but at the same time, make it virtually impossible for people from another nation to even knock on the door. Treat every foreigner equally, why not? Screen them all in exactly the same way. Decide how many foreigners the infrastructure of the country can cope with, decide which areas of work need foreign labour, and then choose the right people, regardless of where they hail from.

 

Remainers need to stop acting like they have the moral high ground when it comes to immigration, because what they support is a highly discriminatory system.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

You should look this word up in a dictionary. Propaganda is what (Mainly) politicians disseminate eg information of a misleading nature to persuade people a certain point of view. Nigel Farage is a good example of someone who does this. I was just expressing my opinion, not attempting to persuade anyone. The youtube clip incidentally is political comedy, nothing to do with propaganda. 

You refer back to the empire that everyone knows has gone, call people who favour leaving dumb, criticize the papers you don't like, then enter this left wing so-called comedian who is sponsored by the Independent and then say this is not political? Funny man.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's so important that checking is entirely reasonable. However Vince is not pushing for a rerun; he wants a referendum on the terms.

You are right, he doesn't want a rerun, he wants to derail exiting the EU completely.