Retirement dreams on Chiang Mai "Hi-So Hill" shattered as foreigner pensioners conned into buying forestry land

[Naam]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Is it saltwater pool or what system did u select?

for the record: saltwater pools are very rare. what is called "saltwater pool" in Thailand is a pool that is chlorinated by deriving chlorine from salt using electrolysis.

 

my pool runs using an automatic dosage system which can use a variety of sanitizers. presently i use H²O² (hydrogen peroxide) intermittently shocked with Cl (chlorine) three times a year.

[Naam]

10 hours ago, marqus12 said:

Earlier I rented a house from a Thai, he has several houses on his land. Farang has leased a piece of land from him and built a house.

I remember that several times the Thai told me that all these houses are his.

 

i was told by Thais that a month has 4 weeks, that rain can make you sick, that evil ghosts exist, you can't properly clean your body with warm water and that the moon causes tides are ridiculous Farang perceptions.

[Destiny1990]

10 minutes ago, Naam said:

for the record: saltwater pools are very rare. what is called "saltwater pool" in Thailand is a pool that is chlorinated by deriving chlorine from salt using electrolysis.

 

my pool runs using an automatic dosage system which can use a variety of sanitizers. presently i use H²O² (hydrogen peroxide) intermittently shocked with Cl (chlorine) three times a year.

I shocked to hear that ur pool is not filled up with Moet Chandon.?

[Tofer]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Rent, own, lease, I don't care.  To each, his own.  But I wouldn't claim that it's "secure" when even someone at the land office can issue false documents that fall apart when the next guy comes in.  In cahoots with a lawyer and a developer and any number of officials who all take their cut then wash their hands of the scheme- knowing that it will never splash back on them.. 

 

If you don't trust the local land office title deed and their master plan check map you can get it checked by head office in Bangkok, I believe. Your lease agreement can have a certified translation which you can read and check, and if you're really concerned get a second lawyers opinion. After which the lease agreement will / should be registered on the back of the title document, which again can be translated then checked by a lawyer if you wish.

 

If we let the corrupt system dictate our lives in Thailand we'd never get out of bed on a morning.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 9/27/2017 at 5:53 AM, bazza73 said:

Living in a box? Allow me to educate you on the benefits:

1/ I have a much larger swimming pool than any private house could afford. Maintenance is not my problem.

2/ I don't have to worry about being burgled. Nothing more anonymous than a condo apartment.

3/ Landlord has supplied all the decorations. He's changed the furnishings a couple of times to suit my requirements.

4/ Views over the Ping River, close to hospital, shops, markets.

5/ Yes, I rent. The capital I saved not buying a house here covers that with a couple of share dividends.

6/ Something breaks down, the landlord's agent fixes it. Rates, property insurance - not my problem.

7/ Gardens around the condo - not my problem.

 

Personally, I regard gardening as a pain in the bum. If gardening is your thing, however, try this link:

http://www.chiangmaieroticgarden.com/

 

Have a nice day.

 

Been here 10 years, don't know anyone who has been burgled (Thai or foreigner). A lot of fear, but it doesn't appear to happen much.

[bazza73]

7 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 

Been here 10 years, don't know anyone who has been burgled (Thai or foreigner). A lot of fear, but it doesn't appear to happen much.

You may be right. However, in the villages the wealthier Thais have bars screwed onto all their windows, and doors are set up like Fort Knox - multiple locks. As I understand it, the lowlifes on yaa baa are the principal concern.

As far as policing goes, I have never seen police in my GF's village. Any justice is apparently decided by the local Phoo Yai.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 9/27/2017 at 6:38 AM, giddyup said:

Still living in a box however you cut it, so you can put your "benefits" where the sun don't shine.. In 8 years I have saved myself 2.4 million baht in rent by buying, another 4 and the house will have cost me nothing.  Never had a burglary in 8 years either.

So you recon a 3M bht home will rent for 25Kbht a month?

Where I think the best you could get/rent would be 12K5 .......... which would give a more realistic 20 year break even point.

 

From, personal experience of  

rented a 2M5 house in Doi Saket for 7k/month.

rented a 1M6 house in Mae Rim for 6k/month.

paying a 90% home loan on a 2M house in MaeJo 11k/month (and that includes the capital repayments)

 

People have many reasons for buying a house, but I really can't see 'saving money' as being a realistic reason in Thailand.

[MaeJoMTB]

14 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

You may be right. However, in the villages the wealthier Thais have bars screwed onto all their windows, and doors are set up like Fort Knox - multiple locks. As I understand it, the lowlifes on yaa baa are the principal concern.

As far as policing goes, I have never seen police in my GF's village. Any justice is apparently decided by the local Phoo Yai.

Yep, the houses all around me are the same ..... I don't even have screens on the windows, don't lock the doors when I go out.

But when they forget their keys, usually only takes me 5 minutes to lever something open for them.

[opalred]

what i have found here in cm after 14yrs was a falang behind them

i don't know now as i live out of town 

but before the incubation seemed to start at ex pat groups 

to hit the green new comer 

[impulse]

7 hours ago, Tofer said:

If we let the corrupt system dictate our lives in Thailand we'd never get out of bed on a morning.

 

Corrupt as it is, I have thoroughly enjoyed living in BKK these past 6 years.  Just like driving down a road with potholes, it's a minor adjustment to acknowledge the corruption and take steps to dodge those potholes.  But a lot of damage can be done if I don't adjust for the potholes.

 

2 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

People have many reasons for buying a house, but I really can't see 'saving money' as being a realistic reason in Thailand.

 

And what a lot of the folks that have made money on their homes forget is that they are the ones that didn't get hosed.  So they don't factor the odds of getting hosed into their ROI claims.  Which is reasonable when you're looking back, but pretty risky to neglect if you're doing a look forward at a big investment decision. 

 

How risky?  I don't claim to know, and I definitely don't claim to know how thoroughly those risks can be mitigated with diligence.  But my gut tells me that the mitigation can't be 100% (or even close) in a system that's corrupt to the core.  Which is not to say that buying is a bad investment, or that diligence is a waste of time.  That's for each of us to decide for our own situation.

 

Which brings us back to the article in the OP...  They won't be among those claiming they made a good ROI, even if their next 5 home purchases go swimmingly.

[paulbrun]

Surely they didn't pay the full amount, without meeting the 'agent', and confirming the land title at the Land Office..? No doubt any investigation will come up with no evidence..

[madusa]

On 9/25/2017 at 11:57 AM, NCC1701A said:

I rent everything in the Land O' Scams.

 

Everything.

 

This sounds like the Phuket scam where the land office, attorneys and real estate agents were all working together to skin the old Farangs alive.

 

 

 all working together to skin the old Farangs alive? No it's not right, it's the Farang who asked to be skin alive. 

What's wrong with renting? Paying huge sum of money for property which you are not the legal owner just don't make sense, any right thinking person will tell you.

Buying in wife's name? Sound stupid to me. Simple if that piece of paper has not got your name on it then it's not yours.

Your wife will love you more if you buy in her name? I am not sure about that. I am doing it for my wife and children, many regret it later but dare not say it because of shame.

[madusa]

13 hours ago, Naam said:

i was told by Thais that a month has 4 weeks, that rain can make you sick, that evil ghosts exist, you can't properly clean your body with warm water and that the moon causes tides are ridiculous Farang perceptions.

Mr Naam, there is a possiblity that rain can make you sick because of sudden change in body temperature especially if you are not someone with good health or rather a physically weak person.

I personally experienced strange phenomenon on my body a few times until I became worried that I moved from that house so I won't say evil ghost doesn't exist. I use to laugh at that but no longer do so.

The last two are wrong perceptions by Thais.

[worgeordie]

Looking at the photo,if i lived there i would be worried that the

houses would be taken out by a landslide,during heavy rains,

not the best place to build  ,

regards worgeordie

[USPatriot]

People in million dollar homes don't go broke over a million dollars.

 

It hurts but they won't be in the streets

[wakeupplease]

Come on what else do you expect here these days its full of the brownstuff and getting worse

[wakeupplease]

My god I can see why so many get depressed here, cant you.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

On 9/27/2017 at 7:57 AM, Naam said:

that exists only in the U.S.

 

Well...exists in Canada also. I clearly remember paying the lawyer for one.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Well...exists in Canada also. I clearly remember paying the lawyer for one.

i always thought Canada is a civilised country

[Naam]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

And what a lot of the folks that have made money on their homes forget is that they are the ones that didn't get hosed.  So they don't factor the odds of getting hosed into their ROI claims.  Which is reasonable when you're looking back, but pretty risky to neglect if you're doing a look forward at a big investment decision.

i could never understand why people talk about "return on investment" or investment in general when it pertains to the roof over their heads and their living ambiente. but then... there are a lot of things i don't understand.

[Naam]

8 hours ago, madusa said:

Mr Naam, there is a possiblity that rain can make you sick because of sudden change in body temperature especially if you are not someone with good health or rather a physically weak person.

that's how 12 years ago a former 22 year old housemaid argued because she didn't report for work three consecutive days. 

[StevieAus]

14 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 

Been here 10 years, don't know anyone who has been burgled (Thai or foreigner). A lot of fear, but it doesn't appear to happen much.

Same with me but my Jack Russell terriers don't like unwanted visitors so that helps

I think there's more houses broken into in Australia than here but perhaps more to steal

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

i could never understand why people talk about "return on investment" or investment in general when it pertains to the roof over their heads and their living ambiente. but then... there are a lot of things i don't understand. 

 

When there are several ways of providing that very same roof, it only makes sense to compare the economics of one over the others.

 

Besides, for many people in the world, their home equity is their biggest store of their wealth. 

 

Having been a corporate gypsy most of my life, the economics of buying a home for a 2-3 year stay, then selling it to move just doesn't work out financially against leasing.  Unless the company relocation package takes care of the 10% or so cost incurred every time a home is sold.  And those packages are getting less and less prevalent.  So I rent, and don't feel "less than" others who buy.  When it makes financial sense, I can buy. Cash money.

 

Edit:  BTW, that "cash money" part was to pre-empt the smart asses who claim that only the destitute choose to rent.

[StevieAus]

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

When there are several ways of providing that very same roof, it only makes sense to compare the economics of one over the others.

 

Besides, for many people in the world, their home equity is their biggest store of their wealth. 

 

Having been a corporate gypsy most of my life, the economics of buying a home for a 2-3 year stay, then selling it to move just doesn't work out financially against leasing.  Unless the company relocation package takes care of the 10% or so cost incurred every time a home is sold.  And those packages are getting less and less prevalent.  So I rent, and don't feel "less than" others who buy.  When it makes financial sense, I can buy. Cash money.

 

Edit:  BTW, that "cash money" part was to pre-empt the smart asses who claim that only the destitute choose to rent.

That might work for your situation but I think most people stay in their homes for longer than 2-3 years my last home in Australia I was there 25 years  so far here in Thailand have lived in the house for 6 years and no intention of moving.

Relocation packages, would not apply to the majority of people and again not to retirees

 

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

That might work for your situation but I think most people stay in their homes for longer than 2-3 years my last home in Australia I was there 25 years  so far here in Thailand have lived in the house for 6 years and no intention of moving.

Relocation packages, would not apply to the majority of people and again not to retirees

 

That's true.  Each of us has our own distinct set of circumstances.  But the fundamentals of making the buy/lease decision is universal.  It goes one way for some, and the other way for others. 

 

In a Thailand retirement my biggest concerns would be the risks outlined in the OP, and buying then later deciding I wanted to live somewhere else.  Maybe because my preferences changed (mountains and cooler weather vs beach and humidity), maybe because I "acquired" a large family, and maybe because of the karaoke (or, to tie into a recent thread, a Biker Bar) that opened up next door.

[MaeJoMTB]

10 hours ago, madusa said:

Your wife will love you more if you buy in her name? I am not sure about that. I am doing it for my wife and children, many regret it later but dare not say it because of shame.

My wife loves me ever month when I make the home loan for repayment for her, another 22 years and she won't need to love me any more.

Briffault's Law ......... fun first, pay later.

[MaeJoMTB]

27 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

That might work for your situation but I think most people stay in their homes for longer than 2-3 years my last home in Australia I was there 25 years  so far here in Thailand have lived in the house for 6 years and no intention of moving.

Relocation packages, would not apply to the majority of people and again not to retirees

 

Don't think I've managed more than 8 years in a (purchased) house .......... it was often reasons outside my control that moved me.

Too small (2x), work moved (3x), retirement (1x), divorce (1x).

[Naam]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

When there are several ways of providing that very same roof, it only makes sense to compare the economics of one over the others.

having bought/built homes in four different countries i claim there is NO way a rental can provide the "very same" comfort and meet all demands. that the necessary pocket money has to be available goes without saying.

Quote

Besides, for many people in the world, their home equity is their biggest store of their wealth. 

in my book wealth means liquid disposable financial means.  but... to each his own.

Quote

Having been a corporate gypsy most of my life, the economics of buying a home for a 2-3 year stay, then selling it to move just doesn't work out financially against leasing. 

i agree, no doubt about that.

[madusa]

8 hours ago, Naam said:

that's how 12 years ago a former 22 year old housemaid argued because she didn't report for work three consecutive days. 

The poor housemaid probably eating only handful of sticky rice with some chili and dried fish, completely lacking in minerals , vitamins and protein. Some of them probably have some parasitic worms in their intestine that suck  up whatever nutrients that happen to be there.

They don't look healthy to me though I am not a doctor. I think you get a pretty good picture now don't you?

[Naam]

7 minutes ago, madusa said:

The poor housemaid probably eating only handful of sticky rice with some chili and dried fish, completely lacking in minerals , vitamins and protein. Some of them probably have some parasitic worms in their intestine that suck  up whatever nutrients that happen to be there.

They don't look healthy to me though I am not a doctor. I think you get a pretty good picture now don't you?

the only picture i get is that you possess a wealth of no idea how well paid, well fed and healthy our domestic employees are.