Sentence Builder

[In the Rai!]

If you learn a word but dont know how to use it in a sentence than post it and have someone help you put it into a sentence. I remember when I first started I used to get frustrated because I would learn words but I never knew how to put them into sentences..

[loong]

Good idea

I have 2 words that I sometimes have difficulty knowing which one to use, so a few examples of when to use would be useful

Sameuh

เสมอ

always

Dtalawt

ตลอด

throughout

Thanks

Edited January 9, 2007 by loong

[In the Rai!]

Good idea

I have 2 words that I sometimes have difficulty knowing which one to use, so a few examples of when to use would be useful

Sameuh

เสมอ

always

Dtalawt

ตลอด

throughout

Thanks

Here is an example for ตลอด

เมื่อวานนี้ ฝนตกตลอดวัน ลมเเรงจัด meur warn ni fon dok dtalod wan lom rang jad

yesterday it rained throughout the day and the winds were strong.

or

คนที่นั่งดู T.Vอยู่ตลอดจะมีอาการปวดเมื่อยคอ และ หลัง kon ti nang duu T.V yuu dtalod ja mi argarn buwat muwai kor lae lang.

People who watch TV all the time get a sore neck and back.

ITR

Edited January 10, 2007 by In the Rai!

[In the Rai!]

Good idea

I have 2 words that I sometimes have difficulty knowing which one to use, so a few examples of when to use would be useful

Sameuh

เสมอ

always

Thanks

เสมอ sameur

I have only ever used it as for always and only ever heard it used as tied (in sport)

My example for always.

พอ่เเละแม่รักลูกเสมอ paw lae maae rak lug sameur

A mother and father will always love their children.

or for sport you always here เสมอ (sameur) being used as a tie.

Liverpool กับ Chelsea เสมอกัน 1-1

As for even I have only ever heard or used it in spoken Thai.

เท่าเทียมกัน (toa tium gan) or เท่ากัน (toa gan) for example

เรียงเเถวให้เท่ากัน (riang tow hai tow gan) to form even lines

I would love to hear from others on the usage of เสมอ sameur being used as "the same / equal" apart from sport. I havent come accross it much myself so would love to see some other examples.

cheers ITR

[Briggsy]

From the bus

ค่าโดยสาร7บาทตลอดทาง There is a fixed fare of 7 Baht.

[Rikker]

I think we can make the distinction that ตลอด often indicates the entirety of a span of time, which is a viewed as a single instance, while เสมอ is the entirety of many instances.

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อเสมอ (He always dressed sharply, i.e. every time he dresses.)

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อตลอดทั้งวัน (He was dressed handsomely all day, i.e. throughout the whole day without changing clothes)

[In the Rai!]

I think we can make the distinction that ตลอด often indicates the entirety of a span of time, which is a viewed as a single instance, while เสมอ is the entirety of many instances.

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อเสมอ (He always dressed sharply, i.e. every time he dresses.)

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อตลอดทั้งวัน (He was dressed handsomely all day, i.e. throughout the whole day without changing clothes)

Nice examples Rikker.. I always seem to make something easy more complicated than it is..

[Rikker]

Maybe this is a better set of examples:

เวลาไปดูหนังเพื่อนผมชอบหัวเราะเสียงดังเสมอ - When we go to the movies, my friend always laughs loudly.

เวลาไปดูหนังเพื่อนผมชอบหัวเราะเสียงดังตลอดทั้งเรื่อง - My friend laughed loudly in the movie theater throughout the whole movie.

Is it possible that sometimes ตลอด can mean the same thing as เสมอ, over many instances? Consider this sentence to the first one above:

เวลาไปดูหนังเพื่อนผมชอบหัวเราะเสียงดังตลอด

So does this mean, "When we go to the movies, my friend always laughs loudly" or, "When we go to the movies, my friend laughs loudly the whole time"? I think it can be interpreted either way, but I'll be interested to know if others disagree.

Anyway, I don't think เสมอ can ever mean the same as ตลอด in the sense of the entirety of one instance.

[Briggsy]

Anyway, I don't think เสมอ can ever mean the same as ตลอด in the sense of the entirety of one instance.

I have never heard เสมอ used in the sense of an entire period. So I concur.

I do find that ทุกที is commonly used to mean always as in เขาลืมทุกที He always forgets.

[In the Rai!]

I have never heard เสมอ used in the sense of an entire period. So I concur.

I do find that ทุกที is commonly used to mean always as in เขาลืมทุกที He always forgets.

I agree that they can be used with a similar meaning but it would be like trying to compare "always" and "everytime" in English.

I would translate เขาลืมของทุกที to he forgets things everytime.

and เขาลืมของตลอดเวลา to he forgets things all the time (or always).

I agree though Briggsy that in this example you can use ทุกที to replace ตลอด but in others it cant as per my first example

" คนที่นั่งดู T.Vอยู่ตลอดจะมีอาการปวดเมื่อยคอ และ หลัง kon ti nang duu T.V yuu dtalod ja mi argarn buwat muwai kor lae lang.

People who watch TV all the time get a sore neck and back."

This ตลอด can not be replaced with ทุกที..

ITR

[aanon]

I would love to hear from others on the usage of เสมอ sameur being used as "the same / equal" apart from sport. I havent come accross it much myself so would love to see some other examples.

cheers ITR

hi all, this is my first post here so please forgive me if i have the process of replying/quoting a bit wrong.

on the above question, how about:

ความไม่เสมอภาคในสังคม (social inequality)

which is saying different sections ภาค of society are not equal

or

ทำไมพึ้นตรงนี้ไม่เสมอกัน (how come the ground here is uneven?)

[taxexile]

นิยม and รสนิยม

i always get confused between these two , and am unsure as how to incorporate them into sentences.

any help would be appreciated.

[aanon]

นิยม and รสนิยม

i always get confused between these two , and am unsure as how to incorporate them into sentences.

any help would be appreciated.

hi taxexile,

นิยม usually means popular, ความนิยม is popularity etc. in certain contexts it can also simply mean to like.

eg. เขาเป็นนักเขียนที่นิยมที่สุดในกลุ่มผู้ อ่านคนจีนคนหนึ่ง

(my god, that took me such a long time to type!)

means: he is one of the writers who is most popular among chinese readers

i also heard a thai friend answer, when asked whether he and his partner were planning to have kids, that:

พวกเราไม่ค่อยนิยมมีลูก

which struck me at the time as an unusual usage of niyom. i guess with a little imagination you could construe it as "the idea of having kids is not that popular between us" but that's a little awkward. it's more like "we're not that keen on having kids".

รสนิยม (rot-sa-ni-yom) means tastes/preferences so you'd use it when saying that someone has unique tastes, different tastes, lowly tastes etc.

เขามีรสนิยมที่แตกต่างกับชาวบ้านโดยสิ้นเชิง

his tastes were entirely different to everyone else's (or to the common person's)

hope that helps. by the way, telling somone they have lowly tastes is probably only appropriate in a comedic situation :-)

[meadish_sweetball]

โดยสิ้นเชิง = Thanks for this one, aanon. I had never heard it before and had to look it up. It appears it means "completely"; "absolutely" - or "entirely" as in your example.

[Rinnam]

นิยม and รสนิยม

further answer, you can also remember that:

นิยม Niyom = adjective and verb

รสนิยม Rodniyom or Rodsaniyom = noun

Yiyom as an adjective = popular. the example sentence was posted by Aanon

Yiyom as a verb = like. the second example was posted by aanon but i think it's not clear. Say that sentence in Thai, it will be ;

They don't like having kids =พวกเราไม่ค่อยนิยมมีลูก.

Note: to use niyom as a verb, it sounds too Thai or formal sometimes. you'd better say 'don't like or dont' want' = 'mi chob or mi yaak" = ไม่ชอบ หรือ ไม่อยาก.

for example, they dont' want to have kids = พวกเขาไม่อยากมีลูก. for thai meaning, this sentence sounds better (natuaral).

Niyom as a verb is better used with the sentence talking about the preference of the whold society or community.

e.g. Having more than 3 children is now not popular = การมีบุตรมากกว่า 3คนปัจจุบันไม่เป็นที่นิยม gann mee bood mak-kwa sam kon pad-ju-ban mai pen tee ni-yom (quite formal in Thai)

however, you can use niyom in real life for your practice

รสนิยม Rod-ni-yom is the correct way to pronounce and Rod-sa-ni-yom which 'sa' is a light sound =Rod-s-ni-yom is a popular way to pronounce. However, thai ppl understand both. no worries.

[aanon]

นิยม and รสนิยม

i always get confused between these two , and am unsure as how to incorporate them into sentences.

any help would be appreciated.

if you are actually getting the two mixed up regularly, just remember the one which has รส at the start (which means flavour/taste as in รสชาติ ) is the one which means 'a person's tastes'.

i have a similar problem with จำกัด (limit) and กำจัด (eradicate). always takes me a few moments to get it right in my head. hehe...it's all part of the fun.

[taxexile]

thanks for the replies , and ive also learnt two new words , โดยสิ้นเชิง and กำจัด.

[In the Rai!]

นิยม and รสนิยม

i always get confused between these two , and am unsure as how to incorporate them into sentences.

any help would be appreciated.

if you are actually getting the two mixed up regularly, just remember the one which has รส at the start (which means flavour/taste as in รสชาติ ) is the one which means 'a person's tastes'.

i have a similar problem with จำกัด (limit) and กำจัด (eradicate). always takes me a few moments to get it right in my head. hehe...it's all part of the fun.

Hey Aanon,

really nice way of remembering it..I likes alot

Edited January 15, 2007 by In the Rai!

[In the Rai!]

ทำไมพึ้นตรงนี้ไม่เสมอกัน (how come the ground here is uneven?)

Very good point. I forgot about using it like this.

cheers ITR

[aanon]

ยินดีครับ to everyone who said thanks.

after all the talk about niyom yesterday, i came across another slightly different shade of meaning for niyom in something i was reading last night. as best i can remember it was:

ถึงจะหากินในทางมืด แดงก็อดนิยมเพื่อนแขกคนนี้ไม่ได้

even though he made his living in a shady way, daeng couldn't help but admire this khaek friend of his.

so niyom is being used for admire (at least, that's my reading from the context). the so sethaputra dictionary i have confirms this, listing นิยมชมชอบ (which admittedly i don't recall ever hearing) as admire.

also, the other sense of niyom which does come up quite often is similar to -ism or -istic in english:

ชาตินิยม nationalistic

ลัทธิสังคมนิยม socialism

so you'll see it in colonialism, communism and so on.

sorry if you're sick of hearing about niyom already. hehe....i usually take the approach of trying to get maximum mileage out of the limited number of words i know!

all the best.

[meadish_sweetball]

ถึงจะหากินในทางมืด แดงก็อดนิยมเพื่อนแขกคนนี้ไม่ได้

In this case I would interpret นิยม as just meaning 'to like', since there is no additional ชม or ชมชอบ - but I guess it depends on the rest of the surrounding context too. Either way it's a good example sentence, and the other examples are great additions. Keep posting!

[Briggsy]

Look how แดง is the subject of the 2 verbs อด and นิยม. This would definitely throw me if I had no context. I'd probably think Daeng couldn't help but be popular! Tricky.

[In the Rai!]

ถึงจะหากินในทางมืด แดงก็อดนิยมเพื่อนแขกคนนี้ไม่ได้

In this case I would interpret นิยม as just meaning 'to like', since there is no additional ชม or ชมชอบ - but I guess it depends on the rest of the surrounding context too. Either way it's a good example sentence, and the other examples are great additions. Keep posting!

Yes I would say "to like" as well.

I only use นิยม as in popular/ to like or favoured.

Here is an example sentence I got for นิยม

โรงเรียนรัฐบาลเป็นที่นิยมของพูปกครองมากกว่าโรงเรียนเอกชน

Now I have a question for everyone on the usage of ชมชอบ as opposed to ชื่นชม

I noticed it mentioned earlier for admire. I have always used ชื่นชม for admire and have never used ชมชอบ. Occasionally I will use นับถือ as in praise or respect.

An example for ชื่นชม

คุณครูชื่นชมผลงานของนักเรียนที่ได้รางวัลชนะเลิศ

I would love to see some examples for ชมชอบ

[Rikker]

It should be noted that ชมชอบ as used above was part of the rhyming phrase นิยมชมชอบ. Thai has thousands of this type of four-syllable rhyming expressions, where the middle two syllables rhyme (although there are many variations). They're everywhere--จุดหมายปลายทาง, มากมายก่ายกอง, เก็บหอมรอมริบ, เจ็บไข้ได้ป่วย, โรคภัยไข้เจ็บ, ที่นอนหมอนมุ้ง...

So while ชมชอบ is a valid phrase by itself, I think it's more common as part of this larger expression.

To test this, I did a search for ชมชอบ on the news corpus at sealang.net (http://www.sealang.net/thai/corpus.htm) and about 72% of the results came back with นิยม in front.

The effect of these rhyming expressions varies, but often it's simply a more elaborate form of the same word. In this case I think นิยม, ชมชอบ, and นิยมชมชอบ are all synonyms, effectively.

The sealang corpus only gives a partial context, but here are a few snippets from there that don't have นิยม in front:

เพื่อผูกใจคนกรุงเทพมหานครที่ชมชอบ นายสมัคร "...in order to win over those citizens of Bangkok who like Mr. Samak..."

เซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าว สถานที่ชมชอบของเด็กๆ เมืองกรุงและต่างจังหวัด "...Central Lat Phrao, a favorite place of children from the city and the country.."

[In the Rai!]

It should be noted that ชมชอบ as used above was part of the rhyming phrase นิยมชมชอบ. Thai has thousands of this type of four-syllable rhyming expressions, where the middle two syllables rhyme (although there are many variations). They're everywhere--จุดหมายปลายทาง, มากมายก่ายกอง, เก็บหอมรอมริบ, เจ็บไข้ได้ป่วย, โรคภัยไข้เจ็บ, ที่นอนหมอนมุ้ง...

So while ชมชอบ is a valid phrase by itself, I think it's more common as part of this larger expression.

To test this, I did a search for ชมชอบ on the news corpus at sealang.net (http://www.sealang.net/thai/corpus.htm) and about 72% of the results came back with นิยม in front.

The effect of these rhyming expressions varies, but often it's simply a more elaborate form of the same word. In this case I think นิยม, ชมชอบ, and นิยมชมชอบ are all synonyms, effectively.

The sealang corpus only gives a partial context, but here are a few snippets from there that don't have นิยม in front:

เพื่อผูกใจคนกรุงเทพมหานครที่ชมชอบ นายสมัคร "...in order to win over those citizens of Bangkok who like Mr. Samak..."

เซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าว สถานที่ชมชอบของเด็กๆ เมืองกรุงและต่างจังหวัด "...Central Lat Phrao, a favorite place of children from the city and the country.."

Thanks Rikker,

as always very helpful

So most of the time its combined with นิยม and the rest it is used very rarely. Is that correct.

Looking at your example it highlights that it is only ever written not spoken though without นิยม infront it still doesnt sound correct.

Because in your example I would put นิยม infront of ชมชอบ although I would just say นิยม but would not use just ชมชอบ

I am guessibg the below would be a more formal way or written

เซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าว สถานที่นิยมชมชอบของเด็กๆ เมืองกรุงและต่างจังหวัด

or spoken

เซ็นทรัลลาดพร้าว สถานที่นิยมของเด็กๆ เมืองกรุงและต่างจังหวัด

ITR

[Rikker]

Not exactly rarely, but the ratio in the news corpus is about 3:1 with นิยม vs. without. There are certainly more common ways of saying the same thing, though.

Without a whole lot more evidence, it's hard to say whether ชมชอบ came about as an an alliterative expression first and was later combined with นิชม as a rhyming expression, or whether it was initially part of นิยมชมชอบ and later used separately. A sort of chicken and egg problem.

[aanon]

I think we can make the distinction that ตลอด often indicates the entirety of a span of time, which is a viewed as a single instance, while เสมอ is the entirety of many instances.

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อเสมอ (He always dressed sharply, i.e. every time he dresses.)

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อตลอดทั้งวัน (He was dressed handsomely all day, i.e. throughout the whole day without changing clothes)

hi again all,

i know i'm a bit late on this one, but thought it worth pointing out that ตลอด also has a usage which not related to time, namely as in:

ตลอดเส้นทาง

ตลอดแนว

ตลอดคลอง

and so on. meaning is 'all along the' [elongated physical object].

is a watchtower sufficiently elongated to use ตลอด?

[Rikker]

Right. It's the entirety of a span, whether time or distance.

[Pilchard]

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

[aanon]

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

hi pilchard,

ขยับ kha-yap is a pretty useful word for this sort of thing. you can use it for both the examples and it covers moving something from inside (like a car), outside (like a box), part of the body (like a foot) and more.

คุญครับ, คุญช่วยขยับรถหน่อยได้ไหมครับ

khoon khrap, khoon chuay ka yap rot nawy dai mai khrap?

excuse me, could i ask you to move the car a little? (not a direct translation, but about that polite)

you can extend it if needed, instead of ka yap rot, ask them to ka yap whatever pai wherever and you're able to do just about anything. a good feature of using ka yap is you don't really need to know the appropriate verbs for lifting, driving, pushing, carrying, dragging, reversing and so on.