'Ball in your court' - Britain, EU clash over next Brexit move

[webfact]

'Ball in your court' - Britain, EU clash over next Brexit move

By Elizabeth Piper and Alastair Macdonald

 

FILE PHOTO: A lorry carrying caricatures of politicians is driven through the city on the opening day of the Conservative Party Conference, in Manchester, Britain October 1, 2017. REUTERS/Darren Staples/File Photo

 

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Britain and its European Union partners clashed on Monday over which side should make the next move to unblock Brexit talks, despite concerns they will miss a deadline for a divorce deal and that London is heading for a chaotic departure.

 

Prime Minister Theresa May made clear in a speech she delivered to parliament that she hoped her EU partners would make proposals at a new round of talks opening the way to the next stage of negotiations, saying "the ball is in their court".

 

But even before she had delivered her address, an EU spokesman hit back in Brussels, saying "the ball is entirely in the UK court for the rest to happen".

 

May is desperate to try to regain some of her authority and refocus on talks to unravel 40 years of union after a speech at her party conference last week, marred by a repetitive cough, a prankster and a stage malfunction, left her weaker than ever.

 

She has so far fought off attempts to unseat her by critics already angry over an ill-judged election when she lost her governing Conservatives' majority. But her weakness has opened the door for many in the party to challenge her Brexit strategy with just 18 months to go before Britain leaves the EU.

 

With Brussels quietly preparing for a collapse in the talks and Britain getting ready for what May calls "every eventuality", some officials and business chiefs worry the country will crash out of the EU without a deal.

 

Speaking in parliament, May said her negotiators had made progress on the first phase of talks, tackling the rights of expatriates and the border with EU-member Ireland, and that she was determined to secure a new partnership with the other 27 members of the wealthy political and trade bloc.

 

"Achieving that partnership will require leadership and flexibility, not just from us but from our friends, the 27 nations of the EU," she told a raucous session of parliament.

 

"And as we look forward to the next stage, the ball is in their court. But I am optimistic we will receive a positive response."

 

But the EU stuck to its terms: "There is a clear sequencing to these talks and there has been so far no solution found on step one, which is the divorce proceedings," European Commission spokesman Margaritis Schinas told a regular briefing. "So the ball is entirely in the UK court for the rest to happen."

 

"SEE WHAT HAPPENS"

 

May, who hosted businesses on Monday to listen to their Brexit concerns, is keen to push the talks beyond a discussion of the divorce to try to offer firms some certainty about future trading conditions.

 

According to a source familiar with the matter, May told business leaders that for her, a roughly two-year transitional agreement was non-negotiable. "It will happen," the source said when asked what May had spoken about.

 

She also said her government had no intention of revoking Article 50, which triggered the Brexit talks in March this year, and stopping Britain's departure.

 

But a lack of progress in talks some 15 months after Britain voted to leave the EU in a referendum has added pressure on May, who was criticised by the opposition for failing to offer any clarity on what the future relationship will look like.

 

"Now the reality for this Tory (Conservative) government is beginning to bite, but if things do not improve, the reality may soon begin to bite for the jobs and living standards of the people of this country," said Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the opposition Labour Party.

 

A report that aerospace manufacturer BAE Systems is planning to cut more than 1,000 jobs did little to ease those concerns that without progress in the talks, firms will start to make staffing and relocation decisions.

 

EU negotiators say that while they see no big breakthrough at the summit next week, they may offer May a hand by offering hope of a shift at the next scheduled meeting in mid-December.

 

Aides to May have signalled that the prime minister has accepted that her October deadline will not be met despite a speech in Italy last month which attempted to reset the tone of the difficult negotiations.

 

But some pro-Brexit campaigners are calling on the prime minister to get ready to step away from the talks - underlining the deep divisions in the Conservative Party.

 

Those differences were aired again on Monday with negative briefings in the local media against finance minister Philip Hammond, who supports prolonging the status quo with the EU for as long as possible, and foreign minister Boris Johnson, who angered some Conservatives for setting his own Brexit red lines.

 

Some have suggested that May will reshuffle her cabinet, but her spokesman said she had full confidence in both ministers.

 

"We are fast reaching the point when the prime minister should assert the authority of her office over the negotiations and call time," Bernard Jenkin, a Conservative lawmaker, wrote in the Guardian newspaper.

 

John Baron, another pro-Brexit campaigner, called on the government to "prepare more thoroughly for a 'no deal'".

 

"I have long believed that the EU Commission primarily wants to punish Britain for daring to leave the organisation," he said. "We should have no fears about a 'no deal' scenario."

 

(Additional reporting by Lily Cusack in Brussels and William James in London; Editing by Peter Graff/Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-10

[steve187]

23 minutes ago, webfact said:

"There is a clear sequencing to these talks

 who laid out this sequence

[BangkokNicky]

[smedly]

Plan "A"  The EU don't want to negotiate (that is obvious) they want to create as much turmoil as possible in the UK in the hope that brexit will never happen, not hard to see the divisive elements at work trying to de-stabalise the UK, the EU keep saying that the UK haven't done enough and yet remain silent on what actually is enough.............well we all know what is enough lol .......more than 50 billion Euro and of course it will all be documented and accounted for LMAO

 

It really is time the UK just walked away, I have heard people who voted remain getting really pissed off with the way these unelected (deleted)s are treating the UK and its people, walk away and leave the door open for when they actually have something to talk about, it really is getting to be a complete shame that the UK is going along with it and is still sitting at the table with these people, I am getting the feeling that the next meeting will be the last if the EU still refuse to move forward..............................then they will wait and see if the UK implodes or the people get behind the government..........................anyone in the UK that thinks 100b or even 50b is a reasonable demand and would just pay up is just plain stupid.....................anyone that would sit around a table when that sort of demand is being made is equally stupid, as soon as anyone from the EU mentioned that sort of figure I would have been heading for the door trying to contain myself for laughing so much........serious talks ????  lol

 

Serious talks will only happen if the UK walk away and if the UK doesn't implode..........we are being tested

 

Time to throw the ball firmly in the EU court and see if they like it or not, the EU cannot survive without the UK being involved one way or another........that is certain

 

 

[terryw]

Again another example of inaccurate reporting from a Remoaner rag. The article blames the job losses at BAE Systems on Brexit. The job losses are because the aircraft project is coming to an end. The job losses have been public knowledge in the Preston area for months.

 

With regard to preparing for a No Deal Brexit the Government is preparing for the possibility that this might happen. If the EU do not want to talk trade then it is a waste of time and taxpayers money trying to get a deal.

[RichardColeman]

Can't quite make out the Yahoo employee with his socialist worker paper in his hand in that picture, but I know he's there

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

Plan "A"  The EU don't want to negotiate (that is obvious) they want to create as much turmoil as possible in the UK in the hope that brexit will never happen, not hard to see the divisive elements at work trying to de-stabalise the UK, the EU keep saying that the UK haven't done enough and yet remain silent on what actually is enough.............well we all know what is enough lol .......more than 50 billion Euro and of course it will all be documented and accounted for LMAO

 

It really is time the UK just walked away, I have heard people who voted remain getting really pissed off with the way these unelected (deleted)s are treating the UK and its people, walk away and leave the door open for when they actually have something to talk about, it really is getting to be a complete shame that the UK is going along with it and is still sitting at the table with these people, I am getting the feeling that the next meeting will be the last if the EU still refuse to move forward..............................then they will wait and see if the UK implodes or the people get behind the government..........................anyone in the UK that thinks 100b or even 50b is a reasonable demand and would just pay up is just plain stupid.....................anyone that would sit around a table when that sort of demand is being made is equally stupid, as soon as anyone from the EU mentioned that sort of figure I would have been heading for the door trying to contain myself for laughing so much........serious talks ????  lol

 

Serious talks will only happen if the UK walk away and if the UK doesn't implode..........we are being tested

 

Time to throw the ball firmly in the EU court and see if they like it or not, the EU cannot survive without the UK being involved one way or another........that is certain

 

 

Rather delusional I would think. The UK needs the EU trade much more than the other way round. And the stance of the EU in the Brexit negotiations has always been clear and consistent. There is no point in blaming others if you want to have your cake and eat it, but can't get it.

If the UK cannot face reality, they probably deserve a 'no deal' result. It wouldn't affect the EU nearly as much as it would the UK.

[smedly]

1 hour ago, terryw said:

Again another example of inaccurate reporting from a Remoaner rag. The article blames the job losses at BAE Systems on Brexit. The job losses are because the aircraft project is coming to an end. The job losses have been public knowledge in the Preston area for months.

 

With regard to preparing for a No Deal Brexit the Government is preparing for the possibility that this might happen. If the EU do not want to talk trade then it is a waste of time and taxpayers money trying to get a deal.

Barneir (EU) is blaming the UK for the failure of a UK Ireland (EU) border solution when in fact it is the EU who are blocking any sort of arrangement, it is an EU UK border, what solutions have they offered up.......Zero, only that they will block any attempt at a free border between the EU (Republic of Ireland) and the UK, I honestly think David Davies is being soft, at their joint press conferences on live TV I'd be asking Barnier what the EU solution is to the EU border with the UK in Ireland since they keep blaming the UK for the failure, I really would put that foul mouthed piece of work on the spot to actually answer the question, he can bring his unelected mate Junker along too, and while they're at it - lets see a full written financial statement regarding their demands for the huge bill they are wanting from the UK tax payer

 

Walk away, these people are devious and divisive, Corbin is stupid enough to play their game - he doesn't realise the damage he is doing going along with it, all he sees is ......... well nothing at all - just mouthing off at every and any opportunity no matter what the damage it does to the country...........you lost get over it

 

and as an added note, I see TM talking in the house of commons ...... boy is she good, then she puts on that ridiculous press face and presentation when she is talking on stage or to the media like she is reading a childrens story ..... to children................it just looks bad and she is so good in the HOC.......why does she do that 

[Get Real]

"May" the best "man" win! Good Luck.

[smedly]

23 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Rather delusional I would think. The UK needs the EU trade much more than the other way round. And the stance of the EU in the Brexit negotiations has always been clear and consistent. There is no point in blaming others if you want to have your cake and eat it, but can't get it.

If the UK cannot face reality, they probably deserve a 'no deal' result. It wouldn't affect the EU nearly as much as it would the UK.

You obviously didn't think.....or maybe you did but just not hard enough or maybe you need some help with thinking

 

The UK trades with the EU and the EU trades with the UK.........not kidding, as to how that works out in terms of who needs what, well the UK is not going to stop trading with the EU, just the terms will be different

 

But the really big difference is that the UK gets to trade with who ever they like right across the whole planet.

 

Who needs who, well Germany and France need the UK's financial contribution amongst other things, it isn't all about trade. 

[kamahele]

As it was the UK's decision to opt out of the union, the ball so to speak will always be in their court until the pull out is finalized.

[whatsupdoc]

4 minutes ago, smedly said:

You obviously didn't think.....or maybe you did but just not hard enough or maybe you need some help with thinking

 

The UK trades with the EU and the EU trades with the UK.........not kidding, as to how that works out in terms of who needs what, well the UK is not going to stop trading with the EU, just the terms will be different

 

But the really big difference is that the UK gets to trade with who ever they like right across the whole planet.

 

Who needs who, well Germany and France need the UK's financial contribution amongst other things, it isn't all about trade. 

The single EU market is much bigger than the UK. As a consequence the EU can make the best free trade deals with any other bloc in the world.

The UK can want a lot of trade deals but they are never going to be as good as what the EU can get. Also, other trading blocs will give priority to striking deals with the EU.

As a member of the EU, the UK has made agreements to  pay into the budget (and receive benefits). The UK just has to honor those agreements, no more and no less.

I do not think the EU loses much sleep over the fact that those contributions will eventually stop (especially given the very beneficial status the UK currently holds within the EU, like Thatcher's rebate). The EU will do just fine without the UK.

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

The single EU market is much bigger than the UK. As a consequence the EU can make the best free trade deals with any other bloc in the world.

The UK can want a lot of trade deals but they are never going to be as good as what the EU can get. Also, other trading blocs will give priority to striking deals with the EU.

As a member of the EU, the UK has made agreements to  pay into the budget (and receive benefits). The UK just has to honor those agreements, no more and no less.

I do not think the EU loses much sleep over the fact that those contributions will eventually stop (especially given the very beneficial status the UK currently holds within the EU, like Thatcher's rebate). The EU will do just fine without the UK.

And it takes the EU decades to arrange one deal. UK deals can be done in a year. New balls please!

[whatsupdoc]

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And it takes the EU decades to arrange one deal. UK deals can be done in a year. New balls please!

I'll believe you when I see it happen . The UK has a serious shortage in experienced trade deal negotiators. They'll be eaten alive when they try to get a fast deal with bigger blocs (especially the USA).

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Rather delusional I would think. The UK needs the EU trade much more than the other way round. And the stance of the EU in the Brexit negotiations has always been clear and consistent. There is no point in blaming others if you want to have your cake and eat it, but can't get it.

If the UK cannot face reality, they probably deserve a 'no deal' result. It wouldn't affect the EU nearly as much as it would the UK.

 

The EU truly believe that. They think they are the "masters" and have set their rules, and only their rules for any "negotiations" - sequence, timetable and what the UK must do first before they will even discuss items that aren't on their own agenda.

 

That is not negotiation. It's a do as we say or piss off approach. The demand for money, plucking figures out of thin air, the demand for EU rights for their citizens in the UK, seemingly for ever and enforced by EU courts, the outright refusal to discuss any points the UK wants until all their own points have been agreed. Everything is deigned to make the UK feel like a punished school boy in the headmaster's study. The EU want the UK to cave in, accept all they say and if that happens they will ruthlessly and completely without any justification screw all they can out of the UK. 

 

I voted to remain and wish that clown Cameron had never ballsed things up as he did. But, the behavior of the EU, driven by certain countries who envy and jealous despising of the UK goes back centuries, but who wouldn't be free countries now but for the UK, shows the EU at it's worst. Full of spite, vengence, and discrimination and not a very just and democratic organization. 

 

This will end badly. Some of the smaller EU members sniff a chance to wield some power and will want their share. They all perceive the UK is going down and want their share of the feeding frenzy. Don't be surprised if the EU members start falling out soon. Only needs one to block any settlement. The "horse trading" in the EU will show it for what it really is when it spills out publicly.

 

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

I'll believe you when I see it happen . The UK has a serious shortage in experienced trade deal negotiators. They'll be eaten alive when they try to get a fast deal with bigger blocs (especially the USA).

Looks like they all suffer from that shortage! It looks like the British team might have to learn quickly. 

[smedly]

47 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The EU truly believe that. They think they are the "masters" and have set their rules, and only their rules for any "negotiations" - sequence, timetable and what the UK must do first before they will even discuss items that aren't on their own agenda.

 

That is not negotiation. It's a do as we say or piss off approach. The demand for money, plucking figures out of thin air, the demand for EU rights for their citizens in the UK, seemingly for ever and enforced by EU courts, the outright refusal to discuss any points the UK wants until all their own points have been agreed. Everything is deigned to make the UK feel like a punished school boy in the headmaster's study. The EU want the UK to cave in, accept all they say and if that happens they will ruthlessly and completely without any justification screw all they can out of the UK. 

 

I voted to remain and wish that clown Cameron had never ballsed things up as he did. But, the behavior of the EU, driven by certain countries who envy and jealous despising of the UK goes back centuries, but who wouldn't be free countries now but for the UK, shows the EU at it's worst. Full of spite, vengence, and discrimination and not a very just and democratic organization. 

 

This will end badly. Some of the smaller EU members sniff a chance to wield some power and will want their share. They all perceive the UK is going down and want their share of the feeding frenzy. Don't be surprised if the EU members start falling out soon. Only needs one to block any settlement. The "horse trading" in the EU will show it for what it really is when it spills out publicly.

 

 

great post and totally agree, I actually think that some who voted to remain have now changed their mind after they have seen exactly what we were part of, there is only one country that has prospered from the EU

 

Like I said a few posts ago - the EEC was a great idea, even the people who came up with the concept of the EU and the single currency have publically said it has not turned out as intended, how long is it going to last going forward is anybody's guess but IMO the days are numbered especially after the UK leaves.

 

Maybe the UK should offer an alternative trading block to those that want to get out - resurrect the EEC   

[whatsupdoc]

9 minutes ago, smedly said:

great post and totally agree, I actually think that some who voted to remain have now changed their mind after they have seen exactly what we were part of, there is only one country that has prospered from the EU

 

Like I said a few posts ago - the EEC was a great idea, even the people who came up with the concept of the EU and the single currency have publically said it has not turned out as intended, how long is it going to last going forward is anybody's guess but IMO the days are numbered especially after the UK leaves.

 

Maybe the UK should offer an alternative trading block to those that want to get out - resurrect the EEC   

The UK voted for Brexit and that was surely against the wishes of the EU. Therefore, the EU doesn't really have to negotiate; it made very clear what the consequences of Brexit might be and what the further process would be. The EU has been very consistent in its position.

 

I really do not understand the complaining by some British about the EU being some kind of bully. They're not, they are just consistent. Norway thinks it is worth to pay to get access to the single market. If the UK wants the same they will have to pay for it as well and abide by the rules (including freedom of movement).

If the UK wants a hard Brexit, then go for it, but do not complain about the consequences and certainly do not blame the EU for it. The EU never wanted a Brexit.

[dunroaming]

The UK will survive after Brexit.  It will go through a pretty rough time and it will have a high cost but it will survive.  If May is actually stupid enough to walk away without a deal and we go over the cliff edge then the short term will be very tough indeed.

 

If you go back and look at the Brexiteers (Johnson, Gove and Farage) rhetoric when they were canvassing for votes then you will see that none of what they said has turned out to be true.  If I were a Brexit voter I would be mightily angry at how I was conned by these lying toe rags.

 

 

[nauseus]

44 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

The UK voted for Brexit and that was surely against the wishes of the EU. Therefore, the EU doesn't really have to negotiate; it made very clear what the consequences of Brexit might be and what the further process would be. The EU has been very consistent in its position.

 

I really do not understand the complaining by some British about the EU being some kind of bully. They're not, they are just consistent. Norway thinks it is worth to pay to get access to the single market. If the UK wants the same they will have to pay for it as well and abide by the rules (including freedom of movement).

If the UK wants a hard Brexit, then go for it, but do not complain about the consequences and certainly do not blame the EU for it. The EU never wanted a Brexit.

The EU have consistently shown their penchant to dictate rather than negotiate, a typical case of them ignoring their own rules and treaties.  

[dick dasterdly]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

With Brussels quietly preparing for a collapse in the talks and Britain getting ready for what May calls "every eventuality", some officials and business chiefs worry the country will crash out of the EU without a deal.

Seems ever more likely - unless UK politicians find a way to pursue their own, personal interests, without alienating a large proportion of the electorate.

 

Regardless, the uncertainty is only making things worse.  Probably time to play the EU at their own game - i.e. We're leaving in '19, without paying any financial penalties.  Up to you whether future trade will be under WTO rules once we leave.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The UK will survive after Brexit.  It will go through a pretty rough time and it will have a high cost but it will survive.  If May is actually stupid enough to walk away without a deal and we go over the cliff edge then the short term will be very tough indeed.

 

If you go back and look at the Brexiteers (Johnson, Gove and Farage) rhetoric when they were canvassing for votes then you will see that none of what they said has turned out to be true.  If I were a Brexit voter I would be mightily angry at how I was conned by these lying toe rags.

 

 

An argument beaten to death for the last 16 months - both campaigns guilty of lies and speculation. I called that one 50/50. It's the easy way and doesn't matter really. 

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU have consistently shown their penchant to dictate rather than negotiate, a typical case of them ignoring their own rules and treaties.  

So in reality the EU is strong and the UK is weak?   Better get out as soon as possible then

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

So in reality the EU is strong and the UK is weak?   Better get out as soon as possible then

I don't think either of them are strong right now. Get out now? Good idea.

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

An argument beaten to death for the last 16 months - both campaigns guilty of lies and speculation. I called that one 50/50. It's the easy way and doesn't matter really. 

Well maybe in your world but not in mine.  Both sides lied and both sides let us down.  However people voted based on those lies and were truly conned as we are now seeing.  Maybe being conned is OK with you?

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

The single EU market is much bigger than the UK. As a consequence the EU can make the best free trade deals with any other bloc in the world.

The UK can want a lot of trade deals but they are never going to be as good as what the EU can get. Also, other trading blocs will give priority to striking deals with the EU.

As a member of the EU, the UK has made agreements to  pay into the budget (and receive benefits). The UK just has to honor those agreements, no more and no less.

I do not think the EU loses much sleep over the fact that those contributions will eventually stop (especially given the very beneficial status the UK currently holds within the EU, like Thatcher's rebate). The EU will do just fine without the UK.

"I do not think the EU loses much sleep over the fact that those contributions will eventually stop"

 

Really??

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Well maybe in your world but not in mine.  Both sides lied and both sides let us down.  However people voted based on those lies and were truly conned as we are now seeing.  Maybe being conned is OK with you?

No, not OK but lies are common in politics. In my world the inhabitants saw the massed deception of Project Fear as far more serious than the Boris Bus.  

[dunroaming]

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No, not OK but lies are common in politics. In my world the inhabitants saw the massed deception of Project Fear as far more serious than the Boris Bus.  

Yes I agree that lies are common place in politics.  Unfortunately the public has to pick their way through the lies as best as they can.

 

We have all been batting this Brexit business about for quite a while now and both sides have their reasons for taking he stance that they have.  And I am sure that both sides want the best outcome for the UK even though that may not be the same thing.  This is going to run for quite a while yet and the debates will continue.  At least people are passionate about it and that is how it should be.

 

OK back to the fray....  I understand your point about project fear against Boris's bus but don't you think that given where we are today that "project fear" is winning hands down? 

[whatsupdoc]

27 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I do not think the EU loses much sleep over the fact that those contributions will eventually stop"

 

Really??

Yes, really. After Brexit still 27 countries left and they can work out how to compensate for it. The UK was never too enthusiastic about the EU anyway by not joining the Euro or Schengen. The EU itself might even get stronger because of Brexit.

It would be a different story if Germany wanted to leave but luckily that is very unlikely. They at least are smart enough to see the benefits of staying in the EU.

[Aforek]

6 hours ago, kamahele said:

As it was the UK's decision to opt out of the union, the ball so to speak will always be in their court until the pull out is finalized.

UK will be always behind,  EU doesn't wait for UK ( bad fate for UK in the end )