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donywhite

Air pollution at Rayong ?

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There have been many reports on pollution in this region.

I would spend a bit of time on Google and see what you dig up.

The region is most likely to affect long term residents.

I'd check for industrial waste disposal and industrial leaks, fires and explisions.

Check with EARTH, a Thai environmental organisation.

The authoritues have been geaviky criticised for not making infirmation easily available on tge area.

The EEC development is going to see a dramatic increase of industry in the region too.....so don't expect any improvement.

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On 20/10/2017 at 8:54 AM, Eff1n2ret said:

If you don't understand the meaning of 'monsoon' - a seasonal wind - perhaps you have a comprehension problem.

Monsoon

a seasonal prevailing wind in the region of South and Southeast Asia, blowing from the southwest between May and September and bringing rain (the wet monsoon ), or from the northeast between October and April (the dry monsoon ).

 

 

prevailing winds arent by any means the be all and end all of this. Pollutants etc can ve xarried above the prevailing winds or even against by climate anomalies and brought down anywhere by rain or changes in atmospheric conditions..soil, water and other aspects of the environment can also contrubute to localised pollution.

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On 20-10-2017 at 7:58 AM, jgarbo said:

The east coast tends to favor W-SW winds. Hence Pattaya, the "west wind". Thai place names always mean something.

For what it's worth, I've flown along the east coast from Bangkok down to Satthahip. A continuous blanket of yellow-brown pollution all the way. Discouraging for clean air enthusiasts. 

Pattay Sattahip it's not RAYONG.

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Pollution doesn't read maps........Rayong and Chonburi have the same basic problems with potentially very damaging industries.

Prevailing winds are really just a red herring as pollution is spread regradless of "prevailing winds"

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1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Pollution doesn't read maps........Rayong and Chonburi have the same basic problems with potentially very damaging industries.

Prevailing winds are really just a red herring as pollution is spread regradless of "prevailing winds"

Guess I'll post again the Rayong air quality readings .....MUCH more informative than the above:shock1:

http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/rayong/government-center/

Compared to Bangkok:

http://aqicn.org/city/bangkok/

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13 hours ago, beachproperty said:

Guess I'll post again the Rayong air quality readings .....MUCH more informative than the above:shock1:

http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/rayong/government-center/

Compared to Bangkok:

http://aqicn.org/city/bangkok/

Well aware of the AQ.readings which sadly dont reflect the intermittment nature of modern pollutant emissions in the region.

You will slso need to think about what you ste comparing.... note that this once rural area with relatively sparse population  is now one of the poorest AQ ratings outside Bkk which in itself is a major metropolis which concomitant polllution problems.

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1 minute ago, beachproperty said:

 

 

27 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Well aware of the AQ.readings which sadly dont reflect the intermittment nature of modern pollutant emissions in the region.

You will slso need to think about what you ste comparing.... note that this once rural area with relatively sparse population  is now one of the poorest AQ ratings outside Bkk which in itself is a major metropolis which concomitant polllution problems.

Well....again....nothing added to the FACTS just some thoughts on that you THINK about the area!:shock1:

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3 hours ago, beachproperty said:

 

Well....again....nothing added to the FACTS just some thoughts on that you THINK about the area!:shock1:

They are all fortune tellers and the map is the province Rayong NOT THE CITY. The polution is at Mapthaput and surroundings.

And yes everybody needs those industries with the oil, gas and so on the farang too.

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The area is Chonburi and Rayong Changwats. Map ta Phut is not the only industrial estate there - the recent fire at ASM was in Asia Industry - that is in Ban Chang.

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With regards to pollution in Chonburi and Rayong, without a good overview the reality is evasive.

 

Pollution in the area has a long history and remains endemic - pollution doesn’t suddenly disappear the residues linger...

 

The effects of pollution are insidious and take time, so from a personal perspective may be imperceptible, and may never be recognised. But when observed scientifically through population samples and statistics the situation becomes clearer.

 

“Facts” of course mean nothing until they are interpreted or analyzed. Of course in a discussion or argument, recourse to the word “fact” as an argument in itself is usually specious and actually reveals a lack of argument.

 

Here are two interpretations of “the facts” concerning the Eastern Seaboard Development Program

Thai government officials view:

The most successful industrialization program in Thailand

 

Thai NGOs or civil networks view:

The most visible example of serious environmental and health impacts in Thailand’s development experience

 

Many of the arguments about pollution around Chonburi and Rayong on this thread are based on fallacious premises such as AQI and prevailing winds.

Pollution in the region includes air-born, soil, water, fresh and sea - all these media are quite capable or releasing pollutants regardless of prevailing winds - there are many other factors for distributing pollution especially when you realise that “prevailing winds” refers to surface winds and not higher atmosphere, soil is transported and blown about as dust etc., rain deposits pollutants in various places were they can then be transported through both natural and manmade drainage (e.g tides, canals, reservoirs lake and rivers), and of course waste disposal.

 

One has also to factor in the bias of those with a vested interest in the region.

That would be businesses, the authorities who now want to expend the region, and of course homeowners. The last thing they want is to see their “investments” discredited as air, soil and water pollution becomes more and more prevalent in the region and infrastructure failings become more evident. .... And it’s going to get worse - a lot worse!

 

For  3 decades pollution in the region has resulted in demonstrable health hazards for people living in the region.... higher cancer rates and even death amongst children.

From time to time this has resulted in (tardy?) government action - for instance the closure of 65 factories at Map Tha Put for several years.

In 2015 - Chonburi and Rayong had the highest number of pollution incidents of any of the Changwats in Thailand. Remember pollution doesn’t just “disappear” - it enters the eco-system and lingers....

 

In the last year alone there have been several industrial accidents including fires and explosions. (NB - ASM and PTT)

 

There have been 2 reports this year that criticize the authorities accuse them of obfuscation and point out that the release of “fact” or information about pollution in the region has been made increasingly difficult to access.

 

The Thai organisation EARTH expresses fears about the effects industrial complexes on the environment and inhabitants in Rayong at present and in the future under the new EEC plans.;

“There are no assurances that new industrialisation plans will not generate further pollution while existing problems have not been resolved. -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30317290

 

Whilst the World Resources Institute queries the authorities preparedness to act on complaints from local residents - http://www.wri.org/blog/2017/08/thailand-unmet-transparency-laws-impede-poor-communities-struggle-environmental

 

Despite this, on the 10th of October tis year the government closed down the Environment and Health Impact Assessment (EHIA) process after it ordered the Independent Commission on Environment and Health (ICEH) to be axed. This was the main source for public input on the ongoing struggle to expose pollution in the region.

One of the main reasons for this is suspected to be their new EEC project, which is going to bring a massive expansion of industry to the area.... the last thing the government, wants is to have to “sell” an industrial expansion plan that is tarnished before it starts. (Actually it’s already started)

 

The information available indicates that health risks including cancer rates are higher in the region that normal. I also suspect that people don’t understand how to interpret “rates” when it comes to health. - E.g. if the norm for cancers of a particular kind is defined as 1 in 1000 then one extra victim represents a 100% increase in cancer -

In the region the increases (or “facts”) are not so clearly defined and a lot of research and input has been done and further work needs to go into this but the authorities seem reluctant to do this and are dragging their heals when it comes to allowing the public access to the information they already have.

 

 

As for AQI - To compare Bkk and Rayong AQI figures alone and out of context is simply to create a false dichotomy.

 

When it comes to AQI in Rayong there are certain other factors to bear in mind - for instance location of the measurements - despite being away from the main industries pollution still peaks in that area and Sattahip retorts levels nearly as high as BKK - btw  - BKK compares with some of the worst cities in China - so you are comparing with some of the most dire AQIs in Asia.... this in no way mitigates the very real problems of the “eastern seaboard” in Thailand.

 

The measurements taken as well may not actually reflect the full picture either especially regarding VOCs - the AQI only detects 5 substances...

 

1.     Ozone. 

2.     Particulate matter

3.     Carbon monoxide,

4.     Sulfur dioxide,

5.     Nitrogen dioxide 

(All these substances are only sampled at ground level.)

 

In Map Tha put for instance the following VOC substances are of concern. E.g. - the Govt report... “Thailand’s state of Pollution”, - 2015...

 

 

1)   Benzene: the concentration exceeded the standard in 5 monitored areas, but the level fell from that of 2014

2)   Butadiene: the concentration level exceeded the standards in 4 monitored areas, however, the levels decreased in all areas except for Mu Ban Nopphaket Station and Ban Phong Community

3)   Dichloromethane: the concentration level exceeded the standards in 5 monitored areas located within close proximity to industrial estates.

 

Benzene and formaldehyde, both carcinogens, are produced in the region

 

In 2015 - Rayong and Chonburi rated as 10 and 12 respectively in the top 30 in number of days air pollution exceeded national standards.

 

Sources of air pollution vary as many in the top ten are in the upper northern area where pollution mainly comes from wildfire and burning in agricultural areas. In Map Ta Phut pollution controlled zone, Rayong, the VOCs came from chemical and industrial – related activities.

When it comes to exceeding national air standards, Map Tha Put is repeatedly number under several chemical measurements.

 

(A government report describes Map Ta Phut, Rayong as a “crisis area” - their own words!)

(VCs cover an enormous range of substances both natural and manmade some of which are potentially very hazardous in accumulatory circumstances)

 

 

The effects of waste disposal - One major factor that seems to have been overlooked in this thread is industrial waste disposal...this can spread pollutants far and wide, but primarily throughout the region - it doesn’t pay to transport the stuff too far.

In Thailand, hazardous waste is becoming a major problem, especially toxic chemicals and heavy metal pollutants discharged from factories.

 

The region has vey poor infrastructure and monitoring of this. Waste an be solid, liquid or gaseous and it’s disposal is often very clandestine.

Illegal dumping mostly occurs in Bangkok and surrounding provinces such as in Chonburi and Rayong.

 

Thailand produces a total of 3.5 million tons of hazardous waste and 23.5 million tons of non-hazardous waste per year, ONLY ABOUT 50% OF WHICH IS PROCESSED LEGALLY....

Sometimes it is the factories themselves that dispose of waste incorrectly and sometimes it is the waste disposal companies who take advantage of slack monitoring to maximise profits.

 

Illegal dumping is not a new thing and it has been carried out around Chonburi and Rayong for at least the last 30 years. Unfortunately it is not all detected and cleanups are not always 100% so it is quite possible that people are living right next to or even on industrial waste “hotspots”

 

There are over 1000 industrial landfills around the and about 400 recycling plants located outside industrial estates. There are also plants located in industrial estates; these are supervised to some degree by the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand.  One sees no reason why the normal standards of graft corruption and ineptitude apply.

The Eastern Seaboard (Chonburi & Rayong) in particular has a high concentration of these facilities and there are great concerns with respect to the monitoring of waste to ensure that waste is actually sent to the appropriate plants for treatment.

Landfills in the Chonburi/Rayong region are also reported as “overloaded” - “Currently the majority of landfill capacity overloaded is in the central and east regions. Rayong”,  - http://mfuic2012.mfu.ac.th/electronic_proceeding/Documents/00_PDF/O-SC-D/O-SC-D-006.pdf

All the more incentive to find “alternative ways of disposing of industrial waste.

 

Only this year (June) in Rayong the following incident was reported to the police - the discovery of a “lake” of industrial waste covered in polythene next to Dok Krai Reservoir in Pluak Daeng. This is suspected of being 200,000 tons of toxic waste that went missing the year before. It threatens to contamination the water supply but as yet, 4 months on, it hasn’t been publicly identified or attributed.

 

So when it comes to pollution whether air land or water and how it affects the health of those living there, it is way too simplistic to suggest that being “upwind of a factory or two is a satisfactory guarantee of safety - the waste and pollutants move about - due to both natural and man-made reasons and without a detailed knowledge of how they are created and then disposed of it is very hard to tell what is going on.... and the authorities aren’t helping.

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

 

With regards to pollution in Chonburi and Rayong, without a good overview the reality is evasive.

 

Pollution in the area has a long history and remains endemic - pollution doesn’t suddenly disappear the residues linger...

 

The effects of pollution are insidious and take time, so from a personal perspective may be imperceptible, and may never be recognised. But when observed scientifically through population samples and statistics the situation becomes clearer.

 

“Facts” of course mean nothing until they are interpreted or analyzed. Of course in a discussion or argument, recourse to the word “fact” as an argument in itself is usually specious and actually reveals a lack of argument.

 

Here are two interpretations of “the facts” concerning the Eastern Seaboard Development Program

Thai government officials view:

The most successful industrialization program in Thailand

 

Thai NGOs or civil networks view:

The most visible example of serious environmental and health impacts in Thailand’s development experience

 

Many of the arguments about pollution around Chonburi and Rayong on this thread are based on fallacious premises such as AQI and prevailing winds.

Pollution in the region includes air-born, soil, water, fresh and sea - all these media are quite capable or releasing pollutants regardless of prevailing winds - there are many other factors for distributing pollution especially when you realise that “prevailing winds” refers to surface winds and not higher atmosphere, soil is transported and blown about as dust etc., rain deposits pollutants in various places were they can then be transported through both natural and manmade drainage (e.g tides, canals, reservoirs lake and rivers), and of course waste disposal.

 

One has also to factor in the bias of those with a vested interest in the region.

That would be businesses, the authorities who now want to expend the region, and of course homeowners. The last thing they want is to see their “investments” discredited as air, soil and water pollution becomes more and more prevalent in the region and infrastructure failings become more evident. .... And it’s going to get worse - a lot worse!

 

For  3 decades pollution in the region has resulted in demonstrable health hazards for people living in the region.... higher cancer rates and even death amongst children.

From time to time this has resulted in (tardy?) government action - for instance the closure of 65 factories at Map Tha Put for several years.

In 2015 - Chonburi and Rayong had the highest number of pollution incidents of any of the Changwats in Thailand. Remember pollution doesn’t just “disappear” - it enters the eco-system and lingers....

 

In the last year alone there have been several industrial accidents including fires and explosions. (NB - ASM and PTT)

 

There have been 2 reports this year that criticize the authorities accuse them of obfuscation and point out that the release of “fact” or information about pollution in the region has been made increasingly difficult to access.

 

The Thai organisation EARTH expresses fears about the effects industrial complexes on the environment and inhabitants in Rayong at present and in the future under the new EEC plans.;

“There are no assurances that new industrialisation plans will not generate further pollution while existing problems have not been resolved. -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30317290

 

Whilst the World Resources Institute queries the authorities preparedness to act on complaints from local residents - http://www.wri.org/blog/2017/08/thailand-unmet-transparency-laws-impede-poor-communities-struggle-environmental

 

Despite this, on the 10th of October tis year the government closed down the Environment and Health Impact Assessment (EHIA) process after it ordered the Independent Commission on Environment and Health (ICEH) to be axed. This was the main source for public input on the ongoing struggle to expose pollution in the region.

One of the main reasons for this is suspected to be their new EEC project, which is going to bring a massive expansion of industry to the area.... the last thing the government, wants is to have to “sell” an industrial expansion plan that is tarnished before it starts. (Actually it’s already started)

 

The information available indicates that health risks including cancer rates are higher in the region that normal. I also suspect that people don’t understand how to interpret “rates” when it comes to health. - E.g. if the norm for cancers of a particular kind is defined as 1 in 1000 then one extra victim represents a 100% increase in cancer -

In the region the increases (or “facts”) are not so clearly defined and a lot of research and input has been done and further work needs to go into this but the authorities seem reluctant to do this and are dragging their heals when it comes to allowing the public access to the information they already have.

 

 

As for AQI - To compare Bkk and Rayong AQI figures alone and out of context is simply to create a false dichotomy.

 

When it comes to AQI in Rayong there are certain other factors to bear in mind - for instance location of the measurements - despite being away from the main industries pollution still peaks in that area and Sattahip retorts levels nearly as high as BKK - btw  - BKK compares with some of the worst cities in China - so you are comparing with some of the most dire AQIs in Asia.... this in no way mitigates the very real problems of the “eastern seaboard” in Thailand.

 

The measurements taken as well may not actually reflect the full picture either especially regarding VOCs - the AQI only detects 5 substances...

 

1.     Ozone. 

2.     Particulate matter

3.     Carbon monoxide,

4.     Sulfur dioxide,

5.     Nitrogen dioxide 

(All these substances are only sampled at ground level.)

 

In Map Tha put for instance the following VOC substances are of concern. E.g. - the Govt report... “Thailand’s state of Pollution”, - 2015...

 

 

1)   Benzene: the concentration exceeded the standard in 5 monitored areas, but the level fell from that of 2014

2)   Butadiene: the concentration level exceeded the standards in 4 monitored areas, however, the levels decreased in all areas except for Mu Ban Nopphaket Station and Ban Phong Community

3)   Dichloromethane: the concentration level exceeded the standards in 5 monitored areas located within close proximity to industrial estates.

 

Benzene and formaldehyde, both carcinogens, are produced in the region

 

In 2015 - Rayong and Chonburi rated as 10 and 12 respectively in the top 30 in number of days air pollution exceeded national standards.

 

Sources of air pollution vary as many in the top ten are in the upper northern area where pollution mainly comes from wildfire and burning in agricultural areas. In Map Ta Phut pollution controlled zone, Rayong, the VOCs came from chemical and industrial – related activities.

When it comes to exceeding national air standards, Map Tha Put is repeatedly number under several chemical measurements.

 

(A government report describes Map Ta Phut, Rayong as a “crisis area” - their own words!)

(VCs cover an enormous range of substances both natural and manmade some of which are potentially very hazardous in accumulatory circumstances)

 

 

The effects of waste disposal - One major factor that seems to have been overlooked in this thread is industrial waste disposal...this can spread pollutants far and wide, but primarily throughout the region - it doesn’t pay to transport the stuff too far.

In Thailand, hazardous waste is becoming a major problem, especially toxic chemicals and heavy metal pollutants discharged from factories.

 

The region has vey poor infrastructure and monitoring of this. Waste an be solid, liquid or gaseous and it’s disposal is often very clandestine.

Illegal dumping mostly occurs in Bangkok and surrounding provinces such as in Chonburi and Rayong.

 

Thailand produces a total of 3.5 million tons of hazardous waste and 23.5 million tons of non-hazardous waste per year, ONLY ABOUT 50% OF WHICH IS PROCESSED LEGALLY....

Sometimes it is the factories themselves that dispose of waste incorrectly and sometimes it is the waste disposal companies who take advantage of slack monitoring to maximise profits.

 

Illegal dumping is not a new thing and it has been carried out around Chonburi and Rayong for at least the last 30 years. Unfortunately it is not all detected and cleanups are not always 100% so it is quite possible that people are living right next to or even on industrial waste “hotspots”

 

There are over 1000 industrial landfills around the and about 400 recycling plants located outside industrial estates. There are also plants located in industrial estates; these are supervised to some degree by the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand.  One sees no reason why the normal standards of graft corruption and ineptitude apply.

The Eastern Seaboard (Chonburi & Rayong) in particular has a high concentration of these facilities and there are great concerns with respect to the monitoring of waste to ensure that waste is actually sent to the appropriate plants for treatment.

Landfills in the Chonburi/Rayong region are also reported as “overloaded” - “Currently the majority of landfill capacity overloaded is in the central and east regions. Rayong”,  - http://mfuic2012.mfu.ac.th/electronic_proceeding/Documents/00_PDF/O-SC-D/O-SC-D-006.pdf

All the more incentive to find “alternative ways of disposing of industrial waste.

 

Only this year (June) in Rayong the following incident was reported to the police - the discovery of a “lake” of industrial waste covered in polythene next to Dok Krai Reservoir in Pluak Daeng. This is suspected of being 200,000 tons of toxic waste that went missing the year before. It threatens to contamination the water supply but as yet, 4 months on, it hasn’t been publicly identified or attributed.

 

So when it comes to pollution whether air land or water and how it affects the health of those living there, it is way too simplistic to suggest that being “upwind of a factory or two is a satisfactory guarantee of safety - the waste and pollutants move about - due to both natural and man-made reasons and without a detailed knowledge of how they are created and then disposed of it is very hard to tell what is going on.... and the authorities aren’t helping.

 

 

 

WOW!.....you sure are long winded:shock1: The simple version is ....Chonburi and Rayong are Provinces which cover LARGE areas.....To say that ALL of Rayong province is EQUALLY affected by "pollution" is of it self a false statement. A little more specifics are in order as again you are talking GENERALLY .

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GENERALLY .Generally. - ? I don’t think you really understand my post

 

Your premises are quite inaccurate.....

“.....To say that ALL of Rayong province is EQUALLY affected by "pollution" is of it self a false statement” - I’m sure it is, and where do you get that from?

 

-Then you suggest I am “talking generally” (whatever that implies appears rather obscure) - I’m quite precise about pollution and its types, sources and behavior - furthermore they are not MY ideas, they are from various reports - government and otherwise - that outline the situation in those changwats. I don’t make up these ideas myself - unlike some appear to do. You on the other hand have utterly failed to outline your premise outside the parameters of 2 AQs in Rayong.

 

It would seem you are fishing for an argument where one doesn’t exist.

 

It seems you need to do two things

Firstly - look at a map - (BTW pollution pays no attention to maps or whether it is in a town/village or countryside).....

Secondly read up on how pollution spreads. I’ve touched on it above.

When you have done that maybe you could come up with a list of places in Chonburi and Rayong where you thin you can “hide” from pollution.

While you’re at it you may as well include Chachoengsao changwat as well as that has similar problems and is part of the projected EEC.

 

 

I think the problem you exemplify a perspective that many of the expats in Thailand, retired or otherwise have and that is no real idea of the extent of industry in the Chonburi/Rayong provinces, which apart from petrochemicals, electronics houses the ninth largest motor industry in the world.

For 20 years  my job has taken me round to virtually every industrial estate between Bangkok and the Eastern border of Rayong, and I get a strong feeling that many foreigners I meet simply don’t appreciate the extent of industry right on their doorsteps - especially in terms of potential pollution.

And to this the endemic corruption of Thailand and the unregulated development and insufficient infrastructure and you have the recipe for a serious and pretty endemic problem.

 

Finally if you disagree with anything I’ve posted, rather than vaguely moving goal posts around, pick out a point and construct an argument against it - I’ll be happy to respond

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15 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

GENERALLY .Generally. - ? I don’t think you really understand my post

 

Your premises are quite inaccurate.....

“.....To say that ALL of Rayong province is EQUALLY affected by "pollution" is of it self a false statement” - I’m sure it is, and where do you get that from?

 

-Then you suggest I am “talking generally” (whatever that implies appears rather obscure) - I’m quite precise about pollution and its types, sources and behavior - furthermore they are not MY ideas, they are from various reports - government and otherwise - that outline the situation in those changwats. I don’t make up these ideas myself - unlike some appear to do. You on the other hand have utterly failed to outline your premise outside the parameters of 2 AQs in Rayong.

 

It would seem you are fishing for an argument where one doesn’t exist.

 

It seems you need to do two things

Firstly - look at a map - (BTW pollution pays no attention to maps or whether it is in a town/village or countryside).....

Secondly read up on how pollution spreads. I’ve touched on it above.

When you have done that maybe you could come up with a list of places in Chonburi and Rayong where you thin you can “hide” from pollution.

While you’re at it you may as well include Chachoengsao changwat as well as that has similar problems and is part of the projected EEC.

 

 

I think the problem you exemplify a perspective that many of the expats in Thailand, retired or otherwise have and that is no real idea of the extent of industry in the Chonburi/Rayong provinces, which apart from petrochemicals, electronics houses the ninth largest motor industry in the world.

For 20 years  my job has taken me round to virtually every industrial estate between Bangkok and the Eastern border of Rayong, and I get a strong feeling that many foreigners I meet simply don’t appreciate the extent of industry right on their doorsteps - especially in terms of potential pollution.

And to this the endemic corruption of Thailand and the unregulated development and insufficient infrastructure and you have the recipe for a serious and pretty endemic problem.

 

Finally if you disagree with anything I’ve posted, rather than vaguely moving goal posts around, pick out a point and construct an argument against it - I’ll be happy to respond

Blah, Blah, Blah......You have not cited one official study done so why should I be specific (although I have) YOu have continued to paint the whole of Rayong Province with your single stroke of pollution...Which is inherently WRONG!:shock1:

I never said there was no pollution .....EVERYWHERE has pollution to some extent! That is the nature of industrial man. So to say that the man living right next to an industrial plant has the same amount of pollution as the man living 50 kilometers away is inherently wrong. The supporting study is "logic" so I will presume you have no notion what I am talking about  as presumed by your in depth thesis which you have so kindly ranted on about here in TV>

 

Rayong is 3500 sq kilometers.....Pretty big area!

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2 hours ago, beachproperty said:

Blah, Blah, Blah......You have not cited one official study done so why should I be specific (although I have) YOu have continued to paint the whole of Rayong Province with your single stroke of pollution...Which is inherently WRONG!:shock1:

I never said there was no pollution .....EVERYWHERE has pollution to some extent! That is the nature of industrial man. So to say that the man living right next to an industrial plant has the same amount of pollution as the man living 50 kilometers away is inherently wrong. The supporting study is "logic" so I will presume you have no notion what I am talking about  as presumed by your in depth thesis which you have so kindly ranted on about here in TV>

 

Rayong is 3500 sq kilometers.....Pretty big area!

Yes I have - several -  but this is unfortunately now pigeon chess - you have demonstrated your inability to come up with a reasoned argument.

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I shouldn't really bother but you do realise that in Rayong you physically can't be 55 km from industry. (your figure)?

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