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donywhite

Air pollution at Rayong ?

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Some posts culminating in a personal attack have been removed, cool it please

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4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I shouldn't really bother but you do realise that in Rayong you physically can't be 55 km from industry. (your figure)?

AND why would that be? ....you're ASSUMING that there is some industrial estate smack dab in the middle of Rayong province.

 

The southern border is sea and Bang Phe marks (close enough) the Middle along the southern border. Where is the industry in Bang Phe?

 

or are you saying "fishing" constitutes an

industrial polluter

 

 

Just as aside , during your 20 stint visiting all these industrial sites .....Have you ever been east of the City of Rayong ? and WHY? once you get past Rayong on the coast there is basicly farms.

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2 hours ago, beachproperty said:

Yes, I don't know why you bother ! :shock1:

 

but how do you figure that you can't be 55 km from industry:sick:? And what do you classify as Industry?

 

And even if I am 55 km from Industry and I live on the beach .....that's the life I live....

 

How about you? Where do you live in Thailand (if you do at ALL) .....I know, I know you worked 40 years in the industrial complex here in Thailand (as a Janitor?)

I'm not assuming, I read the relevant information as it appears - I've posted the reports - both government and NGO. 

 

You really, really need to get a map....do you even drive around your area?

 

-BTW i was in Chantaburi last week - more industry! I frequently drive that part of the coast - the first time I visited Koh Samed was 1994.

 Most industry is due west or directly North of Ban Phe  the industrial estates are concentrated north and west all less than 50 km from Ban Bhe

To the east individual factories discharge into local waterways and apart from Engineering they are fruit and sugar processing works. Sugar in particular is very dirty work....as a Queenslander I can vouch for that.

 

Various Industrial Estate Companies have Estates out that way - if fyou look at the map you can even see the grid systems of roads already awaiting the EEC expansion.

This is just a few of the industries I know to be withing 50 km ( about 30 miles) of Ban Phe: -

 

Rojana, PinThong, Hemeraj amongst others.

Caterpillar

Beku

Electrolux

PTT  - Aromatics

Michelin (steel mill)

Massive Petrochemical Complex, Rayong

Ford Motor Company

Hemaraj Rayong Ind Est

Fujitsu Ten and  Rojana Industrial Estate

Asia Industry

Dow Chemicals - Ban Chang

ASM - recent fire  (Ban Chang)

Map Tha phut

Various sugar, rubber and Fruit processing factories

The company names I mention are not solitary factories - (some employ up to 4000 people) they are located on huge industrial estates.

One of the characteristics of most of these estates is that they are located about 5 to 10 kilometers off the main thoroughfares.....this way passers by are actually unaware of the massive amount of industry they are passing - all they see is a nicely laid out floral border with an archway and a security guardhouse. Let down your window, you’ll sometimes be able to smell them though!

 

... and lets not forget 200.000 tons of illegal waste dumped at the Dok Krai reservoir that is seeping into the water supplies catchment area(55 km)

 

Yes - agriculture is an industry....the area has rubber, animals feeds, fruit and sugar.

The agriculture in the area is using pesticides etc. that are illegal in the EU and other countries, the run off into water supplies is affecting fish stocks in both fresh water and the sea. Quite apart from that the pollution form the industry can enter the food chain and is then consumed by those who buy locally.

 

I’m sorry if you’ve bought property in that region, I know many have and I suppose you can be happy that the authorities, both local and otherwise are doing their very best to make access to information about the region very difficult.

 

As this thread te OP wads about air pollution in particular, you might like this report from 2014 which covers aspects of air quality for all of eastern Thailand, you can even see graphs for air assimilative capacity for Sulfur Dioxide and Nitrogen

Dioxide at Khao chamao.

 

when it comes to air-born pollutants 55 km is no protection at all.

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7 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I'm not assuming, I read the relevant information as it appears - I've posted the reports - both government and NGO. 

 

You really, really need to get a map....do you even drive around your area?

 

-BTW i was in Chantaburi last week - more industry! I frequently drive that part of the coast - the first time I visited Koh Samed was 1994.

 Most industry is due west or directly North of Ban Phe  the industrial estates are concentrated north and west all less than 50 km from Ban Bhe

To the east individual factories discharge into local waterways and apart from Engineering they are fruit and sugar processing works. Sugar in particular is very dirty work....as a Queenslander I can vouch for that.

 

Various Industrial Estate Companies have Estates out that way - if fyou look at the map you can even see the grid systems of roads already awaiting the EEC expansion.

This is just a few of the industries I know to be withing 50 km ( about 30 miles) of Ban Phe: -

 

Rojana, PinThong, Hemeraj amongst others.

Caterpillar

Beku

Electrolux

PTT  - Aromatics

Michelin (steel mill)

Massive Petrochemical Complex, Rayong

Ford Motor Company

Hemaraj Rayong Ind Est

Fujitsu Ten and  Rojana Industrial Estate

Asia Industry

Dow Chemicals - Ban Chang

ASM - recent fire  (Ban Chang)

Map Tha phut

Various sugar, rubber and Fruit processing factories

The company names I mention are not solitary factories - (some employ up to 4000 people) they are located on huge industrial estates.

One of the characteristics of most of these estates is that they are located about 5 to 10 kilometers off the main thoroughfares.....this way passers by are actually unaware of the massive amount of industry they are passing - all they see is a nicely laid out floral border with an archway and a security guardhouse. Let down your window, you’ll sometimes be able to smell them though!

 

... and lets not forget 200.000 tons of illegal waste dumped at the Dok Krai reservoir that is seeping into the water supplies catchment area(55 km)

 

Yes - agriculture is an industry....the area has rubber, animals feeds, fruit and sugar.

The agriculture in the area is using pesticides etc. that are illegal in the EU and other countries, the run off into water supplies is affecting fish stocks in both fresh water and the sea. Quite apart from that the pollution form the industry can enter the food chain and is then consumed by those who buy locally.

 

I’m sorry if you’ve bought property in that region, I know many have and I suppose you can be happy that the authorities, both local and otherwise are doing their very best to make access to information about the region very difficult.

 

i

 

 

I do not dispute the number of Companies  or Estates housing the companies....They don't call it the Detroit of the east for nothing.

My point was ...and is....if you live on the beach your pretty much isolated from the pollution they create.

I know you'll vehemently disagree by saying "pollution knows no map"  But I do get out driving up and down the coast all the time.

 

Apparently you see dirt and pollution EVERYWHERE ....whereas I see the trees, the water, the clear blue sky and  the farms. Each to their own!

 

Where do you live? Queensland ? Or is that too personal a question. You apparently have been coming to Thailand for at least 20 years. I myself have chosen to live here, and more particularly the beach area of Rayong for the last 12 years (Bangkok 3 years before) and have ABSOLUTELY no regrets.

 

There is going to be pollution no matter where one lives ....But there is less pollution here in Rayong (Where I live) than there is in Bangkok.

 

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58 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

As this thread te OP wads about air pollution in particular, you might like this report from 2014 which covers aspects of air quality for all of eastern Thailand, you can even see graphs for air assimilative capacity for Sulfur Dioxide and Nitrogen

Dioxide at Khao chamao.

 

when it comes to air-born pollutants 55 km is no protection at all.

So where is the citation to the 2014 report!  Please provide the site that provides such report.

 

Yes!!!!! I would like to the report from 2014 but as always you have failed to provide the report or where it is:shock1:

 

I'm guessing you don't live in Thailand as your remark about my buying property? Farangs can't own real property in Thailand ....Polluted airspace ..YES

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do you seriously believe that pollution stays away from the seaside? What kind of logic is that? quite clearly the oil slick that hit Koh Samed in 2013 didn't know about your rule.

 

....there have been something like 12 oil leaks in that region since then.

 

"

I see the trees, the water, the clear blue sky and  the farms. Each to their own!

" - that again is awfully naive as most pollution is invisible - the first you know about it is when you develop a rash or the police come round to tell you to close all your windows.

 

Anyway I get the feeling you are going argue that black is white if it countered my post and I think you don't have an argument at all really, just a lingering, nagging feeling that you may have invested in the wrong property.

you are certainly very poor at drawing inferences from my posts and  seem to prefer to just make assumptions

anyhoo,as I said before, I'm not into pigeon chess and you have failed to come up with a single argument based on anything I've written and I don't see that changing.

 

but........please don't post any more nonsense as I can't resist replying to it.

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1 hour ago, beachproperty said:

So where is the citation to the 2014 report!  Please provide the site that provides such report.

 

Yes!!!!! I would like to the report from 2014 but as always you have failed to provide the report or where it is:shock1:

 

I'm guessing you don't live in Thailand as your remark about my buying property? Farangs can't own real property in Thailand ....Polluted airspace ..YES

as always??

 

475-CD0149.pdf

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7 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

as always??

 

475-CD0149.pdf

 

YES! As always! This has been the FIRST time you have actually put in the information for the results to which you referred:shock1:

 

AND as the report reads "

"The results showed that temporal variation of assimilative
capacity of air pollution in the study area in which the highest carrying capacity was in November.
This is due to the
influence of the northeast monsoon resulting in high dilution ability of atmosphere during this time."
 
So except for the anomaly of Nov. where the Northeast Monsoons are at work It appears Rayong is fairly good for a 3rd world Country.

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Still curious as to where you live? Must NOT be Thailand as all this pollution would have killed you be now.

 

Also you write " pollution is invisible - the first you know about it is when you develop a rash or the police come round to tell you to close all your windows. "

 

Since neither (the rash or police coming round) has occurred then I would be correct in saying that the pollution level is LOW.

 

Have fun playing pigeon chess by yourself!

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On 28-10-2017 at 2:09 PM, beachproperty said:

Blah, Blah, Blah......You have not cited one official study done so why should I be specific (although I have) YOu have continued to paint the whole of Rayong Province with your single stroke of pollution...Which is inherently WRONG!:shock1:

I never said there was no pollution .....EVERYWHERE has pollution to some extent! That is the nature of industrial man. So to say that the man living right next to an industrial plant has the same amount of pollution as the man living 50 kilometers away is inherently wrong. The supporting study is "logic" so I will presume you have no notion what I am talking about  as presumed by your in depth thesis which you have so kindly ranted on about here in TV>

 

Rayong is 3500 sq kilometers.....Pretty big area!

That doesn't make any sence at all FOR THE LAST TIME THERE IS NO POLLUTION AT THE BEACHES IN THE CITY OF RAYONG STOP WITH YOUR IDIOTE POSTS HERE.

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Why are people so keen to deny pollution in Rayong?

 The only way to tackle it is to admit it is happening.

Denial just sweeps it under the carpet and allows it to accumulate.

 

As I’ve mentioned before - pollutants don’t have maps or follow city limits - the pollutants in the Gulf and those that run in from the mainland countries (especially the industrial areas) around the gulf are distributed around by wind and tides.....nowhere is immune.

 

... the Gulf of Siam is polluted in general and the area around Rayong is an industrial hotspot.

 

 Here are some complaints reports and observations on sea pollution in Rayong.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=pollution+on+beaches+at+Rayong&lr=&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU8sLP05fXAhVEs48KHRpZCVUQ7AkIPg&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=4b32Wf8Zyfy8BL27kZAD

 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Beaches-polluted-in-Rayong-on-a-daily-basis-by-tan-30264284.html

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com.ph/ShowTopic-g2098646-i28466-k8614710-Polluted_Beaches-Rayong_Province.html

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/ReSizes/ImageGalleryLarge/Global/international/photos/oil/2013/oil%20spill/GP04PJM.jpg

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/thailand-oil-spill/blog/46112/

50,000 litres of crude

The spill started Saturday morning, about 20 kilometres southeast of the Map Ta Phut seaport on the southern shore of the mainland. PTT, the state-owned administrator of PTT Global Chemical, tried to downplay the full extent of the leak by claiming that the oil slick had "effectively been dissolved".

The clean-up left gallons of toxic chemicals at the sea bed. Tese will in time be spread around by tides and currents.

 

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwji8Kuh1JfXAhUWTo8KHXsIBxYQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shutterstock.com%2Fpic-215436850%2Fstock-photo-garbage-and-wastes-on-the-beach-rayong-thailand.html&psig=AOvVaw00OtdBWsvcGJ0odUilGhXi&ust=1509429242330732

 

 

 

http://true-beachfront.com/guide/rayong-thailand-good-bad-of-rayongs-sand-water-beaches

Thailand refuses to test or release test results for water quality of the seas around their coastline......

water quality on Rayong beaches not particularly good

The water on Rayong's beaches rarely appears crystal clear, though it usually seems clean and clean enough to the average observer. Families allow their children to swim in it freely. The real story of water quality is not so bright, however, for there is much that is dissolved along with unseen particulates. The government's Pollution Control Department last rated a Rayong beach in 2011, when it was awarded just three stars from a best-health maximum of five. That's not dangerous for health, but it's a poor sign for the future of this coastline, especially when the same area had rated four stars in 2006. Poor water quality is not restricted to Rayong, however, for all beaches in the upper Gulf of Thailand suffer in the same manner, with almost none still able to attain the four star status they had some years earlier.

rubbish from all Thailand washes into gulf onto beaches

It's a sad fact of life in Thailand – environmental awareness is near zero, and virtually everyone discards their rubbish carelessly. The country is awash in trash and plastic bags, and huge volumes are flushed down the river systems into the Gulf of Thailand. Plastic discarded in the far north of Thailand might eventually find its way to a beach in Rayong. The resort owners fight an endless battle to keep the beach clean in front of their establishments. But it also means that visitors can run into plastic rubbish while swimming, or find it washed ashore spoiling an otherwise beautiful, natural beach.

 

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/86978-high-pollution-in-rayong/

“It's at the centre of a huge, largely unregulated chemical industry. You'd be mad to live there if you had a choice. Same goes for all the provinces around Bangkok which are heavily industrialised. A lot of the country is a chemical cesspit for sure and certain.”

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30239113

Activist kills himself “with 3 shots” in his car (????)

Sutthi Atchasai, founder of the nongovernmental organization Eastern People's Network

 

https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i12/Impasse-Grows-Thailand.html

“The facilities are owned by dozens of famous chemical companies. Many are Japanese firms, such as Mitsubishi Rayon and Asahi Kasei. Dow Chemical and Bayer are there, as are the local conglomerates Siam Cement and PTT. The companies were caught off-guard when the Thai judiciary froze construction of the plants last autumn, years or just months after the Thai government had authorized the projects.”

“The drama at Map Ta Phut involves, on one side, residents of Rayong province who are concerned about the environmental and health impact of the chemical industry. On the other side are major chemical companies that profess an eagerness to meet or exceed any health, environmental, or safety standards imposed by the state. In the middle stands a wobbly Thai government whose task it is to resolve the thorny impasse.”

 

 

The oil spil

“On July 27, 2013, a pipeline owned by PTTGC Plc, a Thai state-owned oil company, burst while oil was being transferred from an undersea well to a tanker.[1] PTTGC then followed the operation procedures for oil spill management. The Company used boats and airplanes to spray oil-spill dispersants, 0,612 litres of Slickgone NS and 6,930 litres of Super-Dispersant 25, which are permitted by the Department of Pollution Control to be used in Thailand, because they have low toxicity, are biodegradable and do not bio-accumulate or cause mutation and degeneration. It released also a boom to contain the spilled oil within the area. However, the boom did not work well due to bad weather.[ - wiki

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayong_oil_spill

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/seasia/Press-Centre/Press-Releases/Thailand-Civil-Society-Statement-The-oil-spill-en/

 

the accumulative effects of pollution on the Rayong fishing industry.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30321893

as the chemicals spread - “PEOPLE in Rayong, especially fishermen, are still suffering the consequences of a major oil spill in Rayong Bay four years ago, because fish have not returned. However, PTT Global Chemical PLC (PTTGC), which took control of the cleanup, insists that the marine ecosystem has recovered to its normal state.”

 

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2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Why are people so keen to deny pollution in Rayong?

 The only way to tackle it is to admit it is happening.

Denial just sweeps it under the carpet and allows it to accumulate.

 

As I’ve mentioned before - pollutants don’t have maps or follow city limits - the pollutants in the Gulf and those that run in from the mainland countries (especially the industrial areas) around the gulf are distributed around by wind and tides.....nowhere is immune.

 

... the Gulf of Siam is polluted in general and the area around Rayong is an industrial hotspot.

 

 Here are some complaints reports and observations on sea pollution in Rayong.

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=pollution+on+beaches+at+Rayong&lr=&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU8sLP05fXAhVEs48KHRpZCVUQ7AkIPg&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=4b32Wf8Zyfy8BL27kZAD

 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Beaches-polluted-in-Rayong-on-a-daily-basis-by-tan-30264284.html

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com.ph/ShowTopic-g2098646-i28466-k8614710-Polluted_Beaches-Rayong_Province.html

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/ReSizes/ImageGalleryLarge/Global/international/photos/oil/2013/oil%20spill/GP04PJM.jpg

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/thailand-oil-spill/blog/46112/

50,000 litres of crude

The spill started Saturday morning, about 20 kilometres southeast of the Map Ta Phut seaport on the southern shore of the mainland. PTT, the state-owned administrator of PTT Global Chemical, tried to downplay the full extent of the leak by claiming that the oil slick had "effectively been dissolved".

The clean-up left gallons of toxic chemicals at the sea bed. Tese will in time be spread around by tides and currents.

 

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwji8Kuh1JfXAhUWTo8KHXsIBxYQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shutterstock.com%2Fpic-215436850%2Fstock-photo-garbage-and-wastes-on-the-beach-rayong-thailand.html&psig=AOvVaw00OtdBWsvcGJ0odUilGhXi&ust=1509429242330732

 

 

 

http://true-beachfront.com/guide/rayong-thailand-good-bad-of-rayongs-sand-water-beaches

Thailand refuses to test or release test results for water quality of the seas around their coastline......

water quality on Rayong beaches not particularly good

The water on Rayong's beaches rarely appears crystal clear, though it usually seems clean and clean enough to the average observer. Families allow their children to swim in it freely. The real story of water quality is not so bright, however, for there is much that is dissolved along with unseen particulates. The government's Pollution Control Department last rated a Rayong beach in 2011, when it was awarded just three stars from a best-health maximum of five. That's not dangerous for health, but it's a poor sign for the future of this coastline, especially when the same area had rated four stars in 2006. Poor water quality is not restricted to Rayong, however, for all beaches in the upper Gulf of Thailand suffer in the same manner, with almost none still able to attain the four star status they had some years earlier.

rubbish from all Thailand washes into gulf onto beaches

It's a sad fact of life in Thailand – environmental awareness is near zero, and virtually everyone discards their rubbish carelessly. The country is awash in trash and plastic bags, and huge volumes are flushed down the river systems into the Gulf of Thailand. Plastic discarded in the far north of Thailand might eventually find its way to a beach in Rayong. The resort owners fight an endless battle to keep the beach clean in front of their establishments. But it also means that visitors can run into plastic rubbish while swimming, or find it washed ashore spoiling an otherwise beautiful, natural beach.

 

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/86978-high-pollution-in-rayong/

“It's at the centre of a huge, largely unregulated chemical industry. You'd be mad to live there if you had a choice. Same goes for all the provinces around Bangkok which are heavily industrialised. A lot of the country is a chemical cesspit for sure and certain.”

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30239113

Activist kills himself “with 3 shots” in his car (????)

Sutthi Atchasai, founder of the nongovernmental organization Eastern People's Network

 

https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i12/Impasse-Grows-Thailand.html

“The facilities are owned by dozens of famous chemical companies. Many are Japanese firms, such as Mitsubishi Rayon and Asahi Kasei. Dow Chemical and Bayer are there, as are the local conglomerates Siam Cement and PTT. The companies were caught off-guard when the Thai judiciary froze construction of the plants last autumn, years or just months after the Thai government had authorized the projects.”

“The drama at Map Ta Phut involves, on one side, residents of Rayong province who are concerned about the environmental and health impact of the chemical industry. On the other side are major chemical companies that profess an eagerness to meet or exceed any health, environmental, or safety standards imposed by the state. In the middle stands a wobbly Thai government whose task it is to resolve the thorny impasse.”

 

 

The oil spil

“On July 27, 2013, a pipeline owned by PTTGC Plc, a Thai state-owned oil company, burst while oil was being transferred from an undersea well to a tanker.[1] PTTGC then followed the operation procedures for oil spill management. The Company used boats and airplanes to spray oil-spill dispersants, 0,612 litres of Slickgone NS and 6,930 litres of Super-Dispersant 25, which are permitted by the Department of Pollution Control to be used in Thailand, because they have low toxicity, are biodegradable and do not bio-accumulate or cause mutation and degeneration. It released also a boom to contain the spilled oil within the area. However, the boom did not work well due to bad weather.[ - wiki

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayong_oil_spill

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/seasia/Press-Centre/Press-Releases/Thailand-Civil-Society-Statement-The-oil-spill-en/

 

the accumulative effects of pollution on the Rayong fishing industry.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30321893

as the chemicals spread - “PEOPLE in Rayong, especially fishermen, are still suffering the consequences of a major oil spill in Rayong Bay four years ago, because fish have not returned. However, PTT Global Chemical PLC (PTTGC), which took control of the cleanup, insists that the marine ecosystem has recovered to its normal state.”

 

Are you here in Rayong where are you sitting after your laptop checking the news and weather stations from the past ?

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On 30/10/2017 at 4:06 PM, Wim1954 said:

Are you here in Rayong where are you sitting after your laptop checking the news and weather stations from the past ?

I don’t know where airbagwill lives. But I can tell you that I live in Ban Chang, and unfortunately we cannot take our children down onto the beach, as one of my children always comes out in a rash. Is this due to pollution,I do not know.

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