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BANGKOK 22 March 2019 03:30
krey

Tax Specialist in Chiang Mai

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Hi,

Just looking for someone in Chiang Mai that would be a good place to go to ask question about the tax system for personal taxes

might start bringing in some investment money in and I know one is suppose to be taxed on money coming in if over 183 days in Thailand.  I know many

don't bother and such but in the new year I might be bringing in some and would rather do it by the books so looking for a company in Chiang mai that

has a good rep for tax advice, doing personal taxes, has half decent English Skills etc.

Thanks all

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Taxed on investment (or any) money coming into Thailand?  Really?  First I've heard of it.

 

Just as a side note, honest and knowledgeable lawyers, accountants and professional people in general are few and far between in this country.  Get as many references as you can from experienced expats before having dealings with one.

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There are conditions under which you can be liable for taxes on investment profits brought into Thailand but the OP's understanding of those conditions is different than what I got from a Thai lawyer some years ago.  I'd say check it out because it is fairly easy to avoid the tax liability if you understand the rules.

 

Since it is not a common issue, I think a lawyer rather than an accountant would be the place to inquire.

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I think you might have been mislead on the laws regarding taxation. My understanding is that, if you bring in money previously earned or otherwise acquired abroad, then there is no such taxation. Only if you are currently earning money and bring that money in as you earn it, and are living here, then this may be subject to tax. This latter applies only to earned money---pensions are not generally taxable, even if you bring them in each month. I file Thai tax returns and have brought money in on many occasions and my accountant assures me that none of it is taxable, since it comes from investments and pensions.

 

In my experience, the statements in comment 2 above are unjustified---there are many Thai professionals who are reliable and competent. Please send me a PM if you would like a contact number for my accountant.

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7 hours ago, neilrob said:

My understanding is that, if you bring in money previously earned or otherwise acquired abroad, then there is no such taxation. Only if you are currently earning money and bring that money in as you earn it, and are living here, then this may be subject to tax. This latter applies only to earned money-

What is meant by "previously earned"?  Earned yesterday?  Last month? Ten years ago?  What is meant by "bring money in as you earn it"?  Bring it in every day or week or month?  What is "earned money"?  Investment earnings, employment earnings...? Are pensions earned? They must be because they are not just given for free, are they?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dante99 said:

What is meant by "previously earned"?  Earned yesterday?  Last month? Ten years ago?  What is meant by "bring money in as you earn it"?  Bring it in every day or week or month?  What is "earned money"?  Investment earnings, employment earnings...? Are pensions earned? They must be because they are not just given for free, are they?

 

 

I believe its one year.  If you are living here and working overseas earning, the money needs to stay out of Thailand for one year, or, you spend more than 180 days outside of Thailand.  I believe in those cases, the funds are exempt.  

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28 minutes ago, VIBE said:

I believe its one year.  If you are living here and working overseas earning, the money needs to stay out of Thailand for one year, or, you spend more than 180 days outside of Thailand.  I believe in those cases, the funds are exempt.  

So you are talking about earnings from employment or work, right?  Or are you suggesting that it is one year for all sources, like no matter where or how I got it, if I have it for a year before bringing it into Thailand then it is exempt?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Dante99 said:

What is meant by "previously earned"?  Earned yesterday?  Last month? Ten years ago?  What is meant by "bring money in as you earn it"?  Bring it in every day or week or month?  What is "earned money"?  Investment earnings, employment earnings...? Are pensions earned? They must be because they are not just given for free, are they?

 

 

I was giving the overall picture. You seem to be asking for the details of precisely what is meant by Thai tax legislation. For this you need to go to a Thai tax accountant. I doubt that you will find such a person on this forum. However, I believe Vibe is correct about holding earned money outside Thailand for one year, so that it becomes unconnected to present earnings. There is an exemption for pensions, even though they were of course earned at some time in the past.

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How do they know it has been held outside Thailand for one year?  Do you keep in a separate account?  If not, it is comingled with other money and unidentifiable as being from a specific year's earnings, isn't it?

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these are all questions on why I wanted to get actually clarification on, that is why I made this post.  I have done a lot of research on this and there are

often two sides on what is suppose to be correct.  I had a feeling this post would turn into a discussion but what  Ireally wanted was to get in touch with someone in Chiang Mai that had stronger knowledge of the system, credible tax lawyer, accountant etc.

 

I have also read about 180 days thing.  Say I made 50 000 on rental properties in my country and I brought 20 000 of that money into Thailand such as transferring it to a Thai bank or withdrawing it from a foreign credit card, from my understanding that if you do this the same tax year you earned it you need to be taxed on that 20 000 dollars.  However, the other 30 000 if you carry that over to the next year that is not taxed.  And yes that brings up the question on can't you just live on the money you have made in past years, but how do you actually prove that?  Not like I can call my bank and say hey can only send me the money I made in 2015 this year.. should i open another account, or just having proof of a half decent amount in your bank is enough.

 

I have also seen in my research that for foreigners that only money made inside of Thailand is taxed, and the money outside is not.. I get two sides of every story from researching on the internet that is why I wanted to find someone who can explain how it works so I can make educated decisions on how to approach it in the future.

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5 minutes ago, krey said:

from my understanding that if you do this the same tax year you earned it you need to be taxed on that 20 000 dollars.  However, the other 30 000 if you carry that over to the next year that is not taxed.  And yes that brings up the question on can't you just live on the money you have made in past years, but how do you actually prove that? 

I think you have the rule on investment income correct.  How do you prove it? The US tax code requires tracability of funds in some cases and the CPA advice for it is to set up separate accounts.  So you could have a separate account for current year income (which would be taxed if you brought it in), then January 1 each year empty that account into your other account(s) since there is no longer any need for tracability on it and it is no longer current year income.  And yes, you can just live on money made in past years outside of Thailand and avoid Thai taxation.  Thais too do this.

 

I am unable to find the name of the Bkk based expert who provided me the explanation some years ago but you will probably not get the best advice from an accountant who deals primarily with domestic accounting, you will be best served by someone who has a lot of experience with tax accounting involving foreign source funds.

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Of course you can live on previously earned money, and pensions are regarded as repayment of contributions. (not that I have one!)

I pay income tax here I'd give you the company but you've already been offered one and I can't remember the details of the company as my wife now does it the lady at the tax office helps her with any enquiries and actually helps us pay as little as possible.

You can learn a lot from something like this online should be an up to date one maybe you can save paying the accountant it's quite simple.

 

thai-tax-2015-booklet-en.pdf

Edited by cheeryble

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Quote

Say I made 50 000 on rental properties in my country and I brought 20 000 of that money into Thailand such as transferring it to a Thai bank or withdrawing it from a foreign credit card, from my understanding that if you do this the same tax year you earned it you need to be taxed on that 20 000 dollars

What country are your from? The tax treaty with Thailand will dictate which country gets 'first dibs' on taxation (with, then, a tax credit to the second country, to avoid double taxation). If you're from the US, Article 6 of the US-Thai treaty covers rental income, with the US having 'first dibs' on rental income from US sources, if you're subject to US taxes, but also a resident of Thailand. As such, you're not subject to file this rental income with Thai tax authorities -- not that they'd ever know you had such income.

Quote

And yes that brings up the question on can't you just live on the money you have made in past years, but how do you actually prove that?

You'll never ever have to prove it. Thai tax authorities don't have the resources to hunt down every source of funds wired into Thailand to determine whether or not these funds were 'last year's earnings.' Instead, they rightfully assume most funds coming in are from accounts that existed last year, and thus the funds are fungible. Only if you had current income direct deposited to Thailand (and such income was 'first dibs' by Thailand) would you possibly (but most likely not) be subject to Thai tax authority scrutiny. In such cases, obviously avoid direct deposit to Thailand.

 

Ethically, if the tax treaty allows you to avoid taxation in your home country, giving Thailand 'first dibs", you still can avoid taxation in Thailand -- with the "don't bring it in in the same year earned." Completely legal, due to the hamfisted Thai law. But that's their problem, not yours.

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It is tax on money earned this year but how the hell would they know which money you drew out if you had the required balance in your account for visa? Will they really check the cash you bring in or draw from ATM? How would they know if the cash coming out was from last year r this? :-)

 

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The rules are that technically, money earned in the current year and imported into Thailand in the year it was earned, is liable to Thai tax...technically! The fact is the Thai tax authorities are not interested in this and there is no system set up to monitor possible collection. State pensions from several countries, however, may not be taxed by Thai tax authorities.  Where earned income in the home country is intermingled with savings from previous years, a system of first in first out, last in first out etc can be used as long as it is recorded somewhere. A pensioner however who receives private pension income in Thailand, deposited directly into a Thai bank on the day it was paid, is I suspect vulnerable to future enforcement of existing tax laws.

 

I have several investments via my bank in Thailand and some of them have tax implications. LTF charges, for example, can be deducted from taxed if you file an annual tax return. But if you don't take the deduction the tax people don't want to know.

 

 

 

 

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