Israel signals free hand in Syria as U.S., Russia expand truce

[webfact]

Israel signals free hand in Syria as U.S., Russia expand truce

By Dan Williams

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu attends the weekly cabinet meeting at his office in Jerusalem November 12, 2017. REUTERS/Abir Sultan/Pool

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel signalled on Sunday that it would keep up military strikes across its frontier with Syria to prevent any encroachment by Iranian-allied forces, even as the United States and Russia try to build up a ceasefire in the area.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday affirmed joint efforts to stabilise Syria as its civil war wanes, including with the expansion of a July 7 truce in the southwestern triangle bordering Israel and Jordan.

 

A U.S. State Department official said Russia had agreed "to work with the Syrian regime to remove Iranian-backed forces a defined distance" from the Golan Heights frontier with Israel, which captured the plateau in the 1967 Middle East war.

 

The move, according to one Israeli official briefed on the arrangement, is meant to keep rival factions inside Syria away from each other, but it would effectively keep Iranian-linked forces at various distances from the Israel-held Golan as well.

 

Those distances would range from as little as 5-7 kms and up to around 30 kms, depending on current rebel positions on the Syrian Golan, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the issue.

 

Moscow did not immediately provide details on the deal.

 

Israel has been lobbying both big powers to deny Iran, Lebanon's Hezbollah and other Shi'ite militias any permanent bases in Syria, and to keep them away from the Golan, as they gain ground while helping Damascus beat back Sunni-led rebels.

 

In televised remarks opening Israel's weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not speak about the new U.S.-Russian arrangement for Syria.

 

His regional cooperation minister, Tzachi Hanegbi, sounded circumspect about the deal, telling reporters that it "does not meet Israel's unequivocal demand the there will not be developments that bring the forces of Hezbollah or Iran to the Israel-Syria border in the north".

 

"RED LINES"

 

"There's reflection here of the understanding that Israel has set red lines, and will stand firm on this," Hanegbi said.

 

That was an allusion to Israeli military strikes in Syria, carried out against suspected Hezbollah or Iranian arms depots or in retaliation for attacks from the Syrian-held Golan.

 

In the latest incident, the Israeli military said it shot down a spy drone on Saturday as it overflew the Golan. Israeli Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman blamed the drone on the Syrian government. Damascus did not immediately respond.

 

Repeating Israel's warnings to Iran and Hezbollah, Lieberman said: "We will not allow the Shi'ite axis to establish Syria as its forefront base".

 

Russia, which has a long-term military garrison in Syria, has said it wants foreign forces to quit the country eventually.

 

The U.S. State Department official, who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity on Saturday, said that goal could be served by Russia's pledge to remove Iranian-linked fighters from the truce zone in southwestern Syria.

 

"If this works, this is an auspicious signal, would be an auspicious signal, that our policy objective - the objective that I think so many of us share, of getting these guys out of Syria ultimately - that there's a path in that direction," the official said.

 

(Writing by Dan Williams; Editing by Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-13

[ezzra]

The only regional power that can and will keep those Iranian in

check are the Israelis, as Israel reiterated many times before

that they under no circumstances will they allow Iranian

presence in either Syria or Lebanon....

[Rancid]

So is arguing against Israel unilaterally bombing another country anti-Semitic? Is it OK for Oz to bomb New Zealand because it has too many Maoris? Or the UK to bomb France because, well because there are too many French, or what about Iran bombing Israel because there are too many Islamaphobes?

 

Seems we in the West hold different criteria for different groups, it was OK for NATO to bomb Serbia and Libya, it is OK for KSA to bomb Yemen, it is OK for Israel and the US to bomb Syria, in fact it was OK for the US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. But it isn't OK for other groups/countries to do the same like when, when...well who else actually does it?

[Stargeezr]

Hesbollah is terrorists, or have  you not been keeping up. Isreal has every right to be

cautious and to defend its self. 

Geezer

[dexterm]

19 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Hesbollah is terrorists, or have  you not been keeping up. Isreal has every right to be

cautious and to defend its self. 

Geezer

It's very easy to unthinkingly put labels on people or groups.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

If you define terrorism by the number of innocent people killed, then Israel is well up there with the worst of them.

[craigt3365]

41 minutes ago, Rancid said:

So is arguing against Israel unilaterally bombing another country anti-Semitic? Is it OK for Oz to bomb New Zealand because it has too many Maoris? Or the UK to bomb France because, well because there are too many French, or what about Iran bombing Israel because there are too many Islamaphobes?

 

Seems we in the West hold different criteria for different groups, it was OK for NATO to bomb Serbia and Libya, it is OK for KSA to bomb Yemen, it is OK for Israel and the US to bomb Syria, in fact it was OK for the US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. But it isn't OK for other groups/countries to do the same like when, when...well who else actually does it?

You're missing the point.  Hard to argue with what Israel is doing.  Trying to keep terrorist organizations off their doorsteps.

 

I don't remember too many of those in New Zealand? LOL.  And no, most agree it is not OK to bomb others.  Just like it's not OK for Syria to bomb innocent civilians.  Or Hezbollah and Iran to state their intent of wiping out Israel. 

 

You've got one sided arguments, as usual.

[dexterm]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Really?  Research the new military base Iran is building in Syria not far from the Israeli border.  Far from hypocrisy....

 I think he may have been referring to the OP

"from the Golan Heights frontier with Israel, which captured the plateau in the 1967 Middle East war."..how's that for encroachment on Syrian territory...stealing it!

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

 I think he may have been referring to the OP

"from the Golan Heights frontier with Israel, which captured the plateau in the 1967 Middle East war."..how's that for encroachment on Syrian territory...stealing it!

100% agreed!  It's an absolute mess there....

[Stargeezr]

Lets not forget that Palestine, and its people are also innocent lambs.

  And it was not okay for Assad to bomb his own people and use barrelbombs

and chemical weapons on them. Iran does have a huge hatred for Isreal as

well, but as usual, many people forget that fact.

Geezer

[boomerangutang]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

The only regional power that can and will keep those Iranian in check are the Israelis, as Israel reiterated many times before that they under no circumstances will they allow Iranian presence in either Syria or Lebanon....

So Israel has not been sleeping for the past 3 years?  No, they're very aware. Always vigilant, as they should be.  They also produce some of the best quality small weapons ww.

 

As for Ezzra's post above:  I don't think Israel can presume to keep Iranians out of Syria or Lebanon.   What Israelis are focused on, is keeping foes from border area buffer zones.  That's smart.

 

Israel fought a tough little war with Syria.  Observers looking at the dynamics prior to engagement on that day, had Syria winning handily.   Syria lost.   I knew one of the Israeli tank crew, Joshi.  He was a jovial sweet guy, with wife and baby daughter.  I imagine most of his tanker buddies were a grittier bunch than him.  

 

After the battle, Israel could have rolled its remaining tanks on into Syria - all the way, unopposed, to Damascus and occupied Syria, if it so chose.  But it didn't.  It only occupied the Golan Heights - which showed its restraint and good sense.

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

So your definition of terrorism now is someone who sells drugs???

 

Like I said: very easy to stick labels on people and organizations.

 

IMO it's far worse being an international arms dealer indiscriminately selling death to anyone who will pay,  as Israel does... they even offered nuclear weapons to apartheid South Africa. How's that for terrorism?

Nope.  Just saying it's part of what Hezbollah does.  And pretty much every Western nation labels Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

 

If you are going to call out international arms dealers selling death to anyone who'll pay, you've got a long list of countries.  Very long.

[dexterm]

11 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Nope.  Just saying it's part of what Hezbollah does.  And pretty much every Western nation labels Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

 

If you are going to call out international arms dealers selling death to anyone who'll pay, you've got a long list of countries.  Very long.

I think it's better to think for oneself and judge people as you find them, rather than rely on the labels that western nations place on groups.

 

Yesterday's terrorist is tomorrow's Prime Minister. History (including Israel's) is littered with such examples.

 

>>If you are going to call out international arms dealers selling death to anyone who'll pay, you've got a long list of countries.  Very long.
...I agree. However long the list, doesn't make them any less despicable IMO.

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I think it's better to think for oneself and judge people as you find them, rather than rely on the labels that western nations place on groups.

 

Yesterday's terrorist is tomorrow's Prime Minister. History (including Israel's) is littered with such examples.

 

>>If you are going to call out international arms dealers selling death to anyone who'll pay, you've got a long list of countries.  Very long.
...I agree. However long the list, doesn't make them any less despicable IMO.

Agreed.  But sorry, trying to say Hezbollah isn't a terrorist group doesn't work.  It's partially funded by Iran, commits terrorist acts globally (remember the one here in Bangkok), and is trying to setup Lebanon in a fashion similar to Iran.  Run by clerics and for the destruction of Israel.  I'll call a spade a spade.  The label sticks.

 

Please read this.  Some good info here.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Quote

Once seen as a resistance movement throughout much of the Arab world,^[15] this image upon which the group's legitimacy rested has been severely damaged due to the sectarian nature of the Syrian Civil War in which it has become embroiled.

 

[Greenhill]

56 minutes ago, dexterm said:

It's very easy to unthinkingly put labels on people or groups.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

If you define terrorism by the number of innocent people killed, then Israel is well up there with the worst of them.

How many innocent people have Israel killed????    They are "well up there with the rest of them"??!!!   Utter rubbish!!    Israel always leaflets warnings before they make any retaliatory strikes and has killed far less civilians than either Britain, by bombing Dresen, or the US bombing Hiroshima, Nagasaki did in WWII & certainly nowhere near the number of civilians that have been killed in Syria!

 

You must really try and stick to some facts!!

[Elfin]

"Israel always leaflets warnings before they make any retaliatory strikes....." Quote from Greenhill.

 

They are such angels for warning innocent civilians in advance that they are going to kill them?

In places such as Gaza, there is nowhere for civilians to run to and evade being either killed or injured.

For Israel, its like shooting fish in a barrel.

[dexterm]

32 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Agreed.  But sorry, trying to say Hezbollah isn't a terrorist group doesn't work.  It's partially funded by Iran, commits terrorist acts globally (remember the one here in Bangkok), and is trying to setup Lebanon in a fashion similar to Iran.  Run by clerics and for the destruction of Israel.  I'll call a spade a spade.  The label sticks.

 

Please read this.  Some good info here.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

 

>>It's partially funded by Iran, commits terrorist acts globally (remember the one here in Bangkok)

One could equally claim... Israel is partially funded by the USA and commits terrorist acts globally.

 

"We know Israel is selling arms to Azerbaijan, South Sudan and Rwanda. Israel is training units guarding presidential regimes in African states. According to reports, this is happening in Cameroon, Togo and Equatorial Guinea – nondemocratic states, some of them dictatorships, that kill, plunder and oppress their citizens."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.669852

 

The Bangkok bombings were tit for tat for Israel assassinating Iranians in Iran.
"Thai authorities said that the bombings were a botched attempt by Iranian nationals to assassinate Israeli diplomats"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Bangkok_bombings

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Really?  Research the new military base Iran is building in Syria not far from the Israeli border.  Far from hypocrisy....

If you're referring to a recent article, there is no surety that it is in fact a military base for Iran.

[Greenhill]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

 I think he may have been referring to the OP

"from the Golan Heights frontier with Israel, which captured the plateau in the 1967 Middle East war."..how's that for encroachment on Syrian territory...stealing it!

If land is won in a war and the losing side does not want to make peace, how can the 'winner' be accused of 'stealing it'??!!

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

So Israel has not been sleeping for the past 3 years?  No, they're very aware. Always vigilant, as they should be.  They also produce some of the best quality small weapons ww.

 

As for Ezzra's post above:  I don't think Israel can presume to keep Iranians out of Syria or Lebanon.   What Israelis are focused on, is keeping foes from border area buffer zones.  That's smart.

 

Israel fought a tough little war with Syria.  Observers looking at the dynamics prior to engagement on that day, had Syria winning handily.   Syria lost.   I knew one of the Israeli tank crew, Joshi.  He was a jovial sweet guy, with wife and baby daughter.  I imagine most of his tanker buddies were a grittier bunch than him.  

 

After the battle, Israel could have rolled its remaining tanks on into Syria - all the way, unopposed, to Damascus and occupied Syria, if it so chose.  But it didn't.  It only occupied the Golan Heights - which showed its restraint and good sense.

It didn't just occupy the Golan Heights. It colonized it.

[dexterm]

30 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

How many innocent people have Israel killed????    They are "well up there with the rest of them"??!!!   Utter rubbish!!    Israel always leaflets warnings before they make any retaliatory strikes and has killed far less civilians than either Britain, by bombing Dresen, or the US bombing Hiroshima, Nagasaki did in WWII & certainly nowhere near the number of civilians that have been killed in Syria!

 

You must really try and stick to some facts!!

>>How many innocent people have Israel killed????

...I'd estimate Israel is averaging about 1,000 innocents killed p.a.since 1947. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war#Massacres

It varies depending on whether they are periodically "mowing the lawn" testing their new weapons in Gaza.

 

The current annual tally seems to be about 100 p.a.

 

"Israeli forces killed more than 100 people, including 33 children, in 2016, marking the highest numbers of deaths in Palestine in a decade."

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Israel-Made-2016-Deadliest-Year-for-Palestine-in-a-Decade-20170102-0007.html

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

>>How many innocent people have Israel killed????

...I'd estimate Israel is averaging about 1,000 innocents killed p.a.since 1947. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war#Massacres

It varies depending on whether they are periodically "mowing the lawn" testing their new weapons in Gaza.

 

The current annual tally seems to be about 100 p.a.

 

"Israeli forces killed more than 100 people, including 33 children, in 2016, marking the highest numbers of deaths in Palestine in a decade."

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Israel-Made-2016-Deadliest-Year-for-Palestine-in-a-Decade-20170102-0007.html

One reason I avoid threads like this.  It's an absolute mess with no easy answers.

[Greenhill]

23 minutes ago, Elfin said:

"Israel always leaflets warnings before they make any retaliatory strikes....." Quote from Greenhill.

 

They are such angels for warning innocent civilians in advance that they are going to kill them?

In places such as Gaza, there is nowhere for civilians to run to and evade being either killed or injured.

For Israel, its like shooting fish in a barrel.

Unfortunately, the terrorists in Gaza know very well that they operate in a densely populated area and that their civilians are likely to be casualties of any Israeli retaliation!!    That doesn't stop them from housing their rockets in schools, hospitals etc, fully knowing that biased people like yourself, completely ignore these facts and just criticise Israel.   

 

How would you like it if you had rockets raining down on your territory?    What would YOU do about it?

 

Given that the Israelis have an air force and the Palestinians don't, how easy do you think it would be for Israel to really kill large numbers of Gazan civilians, if they wanted to????   They don't!!!

[dexterm]

7 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Israel sponsored a terrorist act in Asia?  Can you please provide a link for that?

 

We can go tit for tat here.  I can come up with a BUNCH of stuff for Iran. LOL.  And your link didn't show it was in retaliation for Israeli assassinations.  But it did say this:

I'd call that a terrorist organization.

>>Israel sponsored a terrorist act in Asia?  Can you please provide a link for that?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Iranian_nuclear_scientists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

[XGM]

In 1948, Syria (with the other surrounding countries) objected to the UN resolution stating Israel be established within certain borders and invaded it, with the intention to completely destroy the newly formed country. Then it tried again in 1967 and once again in 1973. Talk of Israel "stealing" neighbor's territory in those circumstances is absurd.

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>Israel sponsored a terrorist act in Asia?  Can you please provide a link for that?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Iranian_nuclear_scientists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

Geography off a bit?  You are aware of where Asia is?  And what countries are there? LOL

[XGM]

4 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

Unfortunately, the terrorists in Gaza know very well that they operate in a densely populated area and that their civilians are likely to be casualties of any Israeli retaliation!!    That doesn't stop them from housing their rockets in schools, hospitals etc, fully knowing that biased people like yourself, completely ignore these facts and just criticise Israel.   

 

How would you like it if you had rockets raining down on your territory?    What would YOU do about it?

 

Given that the Israelis have an air force and the Palestinians don't, how easy do you think it would be for Israel to really kill large numbers of Gazan civilians, if they wanted to????   They don't!!!

 

Israel wouldn't even need to use planes or tanks had it wanted to kill Palestinian civilians.

 

It would suffice to shut down water and electricity supply - both continued as usual from Israel, year after year, regardless of scale of terror attacks launched by Palestinians. In each and every day, goods - food, medicines, cloths, construction material and what not, enters the Gaza strip from Israel.

 

Which other country provides uninterrupted water and electricity supply to its enemies?

[Elfin]

5 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

Unfortunately, the terrorists in Gaza know very well that they operate in a densely populated area and that their civilians are likely to be casualties of any Israeli retaliation!!    That doesn't stop them from housing their rockets in schools, hospitals etc, fully knowing that biased people like yourself, completely ignore these facts and just criticise Israel.   

 

How would you like it if you had rockets raining down on your territory?    What would YOU do about it?

 

Given that the Israelis have an air force and the Palestinians don't, how easy do you think it would be for Israel to really kill large numbers of Gazan civilians, if they wanted to????   They don't!!!

The rockets that you refer to are small simple, home made and sometimes carry no explosive material. 99.97 % of them cause no damage to civilian homes and lives and explode harmlessly in open areas. They are a sign of resistance rather than a big, expensive, lethal laser guided missile that Israel fires at the unfortunate Palestinians (after their pre-warning leaflet drop of course).

 

It is easy for you to say that every hospital, school etc. is a warehouse for "rockets" , just as it is to say that every Palestinian child is a rock thrower.

[Jingthing]

This thread isn't about the continuing Israel / Palestinian conflict. It's about Israel defending itself against Iran. Don't conflate the two issues. As far as the news in the O.P. -- Israel would have to be suicidal NOT to do that. 

[dexterm]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This thread isn't about the continuing Israel / Palestinian conflict. It's about Israel defending itself against Iran. Don't conflate the two issues. As far as the news in the O.P. -- Israel would have to be suicidal NOT to do that. 

OK..lest we drift off topic, although I believe the above conflict is the crux of the whole Mid East problems.

 

When Israel gives back the land it has stolen from Syria and Lebanon, and the USA and Israel stop interfering in Iranian affairs, perhaps Iran and Hezbollah will reciprocate.

Edited November 13, 2017 by dexterm

[Elfin]

10 minutes ago, XGM said:

 

Israel wouldn't even need to use planes or tanks had it wanted to kill Palestinian civilians.

 

It would suffice to shut down water and electricity supply - both continued as usual from Israel, year after year, regardless of scale of terror attacks launched by Palestinians. In each and every day, goods - food, medicines, cloths, construction material and what not, enters the Gaza strip from Israel.

 

Which other country provides uninterrupted water and electricity supply to its enemies?

XGM, you are aware of course that Israel only supplies electricity to Gaza for 6-8 hours per day-not the 24 hours that you are implying. Water is also in scarce supply and Israel targets the Gazan sewerage system regularly to ensure the flow of raw sewerage in the streets of Gaza. Medicines are in very short supply and construction materials are near on impossible to get.

Since the blockade of Gaza, it only receives a maximum of 25% of supplies compared to pre-blockade times, and things such as pasta, coriander, crayons and children's books are on the blockaded goods list.

Please don't paint the Israelis as the angels of mercy as they are quite the opposite!!