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Road deaths rocket by 3,000 as Thailand set to be named world number one in carnage, say academics

snoop1130

By snoop1130
in Thailand News

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transam Star Member

transam

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, rodney earl said:

Maybe if the country stopped buying things that they really do not need they could put some police on the road after their mid day lunch and at night. Most thais and foreigners dont wear helmets at night because they know there are not police at night time.!!!

I would suggest they HAVE the police to do the job..But where are they...:whistling:

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NumbNut Advanced Member

NumbNut

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed... 

1) Charge EVERY motorcyclists without a helmet 500 baht (confiscate the bike if they can't pay)

2) Charge EVERY DUI 20,000 baht and add points to their license. 

 

Thats the two primary issues dealt with (mostly). 

3) There is a Penalty Points system for drivers in Thailand - Use it properly.

4) Suspend licenses that have acquired the full number of penalty points.

5) Confiscate cars that unlicensed and uninsured drivers are found driving, return the vehicle for a significant charge (50,000 baht). 

6) Deal with dangerous driving seriously - real charges which have an impact. 

 

The only way to reduce accidents and  deaths is to 'force' the masses to drive with consideration, the only way to force them to drive with consideration is to hit them where it hurts (wallet) when they don't. 

 

Every accident and tragedy can't be avoided. It would be impossible to make the roads 100% safe, but it wouldn't take a huge degree of effort to have a significant impact in a very short amount of time. 

 

What it would take is a sufficient incentive for a Police force to effectively carry out its job - and this is where the primary issue lies. How can an institutionally corrupt and inherently apathetic force become incentivized to actually make a difference ?.... the simple answer is they get a cut of the fines but that would only lead to more corruptions.  

 

The best answer I can come up with is to pay the Police more, but with what ? there would need to be more cash in government coffers, so to get more cash people need to be paying more tax, or more correctly, those at the far end of the 'tax manipulation' (avoidance) spectrum need to pay more tax. But how to get such powerful corporations and powerful people to pay more tax when it is they who are pulling the strings?.....  the vicious circle ultimately costs those most innocent and we remain at square one. Until the 'whole' of society cares enough not much will be done.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more Richard, I can't see anything changing until a points-based licencing system is introduced in Thailand and enforced. Maybe combined with a vehicle impounding process for certain offences.

 

Nothing will change until traffic and vehicle transgressions are enforced.

 

I must be honest though, I would hate the price of safer roads in Thailand to mean the same level of policing we experience now in most western countries... how can we arrive at a happy medium, that is the question!

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Bundooman Silver Member

Bundooman

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, agudbuk said:

Another reason is the poor condition of many roads. The traffic manoeuvres around deep holes and drivers use the outside lane because the nearside lane is rutted by heavy trucks . 

Agree. I see that many times and add, "The instantaneous and unsignalled" traffic manoeuvres around deep holes and drivers use the outside lane, or changing lanes regardless of who might be travelling in that outside lane 

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transam Star Member

transam

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, NumbNut said:

 

Couldn't agree more Richard, I can't see anything changing until a points-based licencing system is introduced in Thailand and enforced. Maybe combined with a vehicle impounding process for certain offences.

 

Nothing will change until traffic and vehicle transgressions are enforced.

 

I must be honest though, I would hate the price of safer roads in Thailand to mean the same level of policing we experience now in most western countries... how can we arrive at a happy medium, that is the question!

The reason nanny states have brought their road accidents down is because of the police presence and camera use, plus their fine system.

LOS does have a system in place but the police ignore it, so the locals ignore it..

 

I cannot remember the last time l saw a traffic cop, l am talking years...

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NumbNut Advanced Member

NumbNut

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, transam said:

The reason nanny states have brought their road accidents down is because of the police presence and camera use, plus their fine system.

LOS does have a system in place but the police ignore it, so the locals ignore it..

 

I cannot remember the last time l saw a traffic cop, l am talking years...

 

Agree Trans, Love it or hate it the 'Nanny States' have made their roads a safer place to be. It's just a shame that draconian policing seems to be an unavoidable byproduct.

 

How to make roads safer in Thailand without following the Nanny State template?

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Gulfsailor Gold Member

Gulfsailor

Posted
Posted

I understand that foreigners reading this are upset by the stated numbers. But the reactions from the few Thais in the story is just feigned outrage. Thais don't care much about safety, be it on the road, workplace or anywhere else. When it's your time, it's your time.

Since Thais don't care, they won't demand government to care, so police also don't care. Just see what happens when a helmet check is being done at a school and bikes confiscated. Parents will storm the police station and demand bikes returned and this nonsense to stop. 

If the locals don't care, I don't care. 

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lvr181 Gold Member

lvr181

Posted
Posted

"....road safety campaigns.."  :shock1:

 

Government does not know the meaning of that. They haven't a clue of what to do and how to go about reducing road trauma. It takes ACTION NOT TALKING. And they do not want to learn from others outside of the Kingdom - probably a terrible 'loss of face' in doing that. The RTP do not deserve their title. :post-4641-1156693976:

 

Now is the time for the "democratic soldier" to show some genuine leadership and action if he truly cares for his people. But will it happen? Only time (and many more deaths) will tell. :sad:

 

 

 

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Wiggy Gold Member

Wiggy

Posted
Posted

It's the same old thing; the traffic police simply don't want people to comply with the law, which is why they don't enforce it regularly. If the vast majority of motorists complied then their income would dry up. They WANT people to break the law so that they can 'fine' them using occasional enforcement. It's as simple as that. It could all be sorted with 3-5,000 baht fines per infringement. It won't happen though, and I for one am getting sick and tired of slowing down at green lights to see if an idiot is coming the other way.

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Airbagwill Silver Member

Airbagwill

Posted
Posted

If road deaths are increasing it kind of puts to sleep the "all Thai drivers are stupid" theory.

As this by definition must be a constant.

 

I would suggest that the real problem is that no one has actually admitted what the problem is and that is that the authorities have not addressed any of the real underlying issues that surrounded road safety in Thailand - driving is NOT road safety, it is only one factor.

as with many of the members of TV, they fail to realise that road safety isa science based activity - as the government cant even gather statistics properly on the topic they can't SEE the situation for what it is and therefore can't even begin to start.

 

Trying to accuse Thais of being more stupid than other countries is not seeing the subject, it is applying a racial prejudice to th issue and as racism is a false premise it can't be helpful.

 

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transam Star Member

transam

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, NumbNut said:

 

Agree Trans, Love it or hate it the 'Nanny States' have made their roads a safer place to be. It's just a shame that draconian policing seems to be an unavoidable byproduct.

 

How to make roads safer in Thailand without following the Nanny State template?

First, get the BiB out there to be seen, then let the locals SEE the BiB handing out tickets for the laws they already have. Stop under age kids being given the keys to bikes and fine the parents.

 

It is so easy to get the ball rolling but it seems those in control of their troops are not handing out daily orders..I just do not understand that.

 

A few weeks back Mrs.Trans got a 500bht fine for parking more than 25cms from the curb, whilst children were flying bye on bikes...Crazy stuff...

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Airbagwill Silver Member

Airbagwill

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed... 

1) Charge EVERY motorcyclists without a helmet 500 baht (confiscate the bike if they can't pay)

2) Charge EVERY DUI 20,000 baht and add points to their license. 

 

Thats the two primary issues dealt with (mostly). 

3) There is a Penalty Points system for drivers in Thailand - Use it properly.

4) Suspend licenses that have acquired the full number of penalty points.

5) Confiscate cars that unlicensed and uninsured drivers are found driving, return the vehicle for a significant charge (50,000 baht). 

6) Deal with dangerous driving seriously - real charges which have an impact. 

 

The only way to reduce accidents and  deaths is to 'force' the masses to drive with consideration, the only way to force them to drive with consideration is to hit them where it hurts (wallet) when they don't. 

 

Every accident and tragedy can't be avoided. It would be impossible to make the roads 100% safe, but it wouldn't take a huge degree of effort to have a significant impact in a very short amount of time. 

 

What it would take is a sufficient incentive for a Police force to effectively carry out its job - and this is where the primary issue lies. How can an institutionally corrupt and inherently apathetic force become incentivized to actually make a difference ?.... the simple answer is they get a cut of the fines but that would only lead to more corruptions.  

 

The best answer I can come up with is to pay the Police more, but with what ? there would need to be more cash in government coffers, so to get more cash people need to be paying more tax, or more correctly, those at the far end of the 'tax manipulation' (avoidance) spectrum need to pay more tax. But how to get such powerful corporations and powerful people to pay more tax when it is they who are pulling the strings?.....  the vicious circle ultimately costs those most innocent and we remain at square one. Until the 'whole' of society cares enough not much will be done.

 

 

 

You are completely failing to understand road safety, and like successive governments and other authorities barking up the wrong tree - these partial, uninformed single issue comments have been rolled out again and again and there is no change therefore this is not a viable option.

road safety is about PREVENTING crashes and then mitigating the results. Your suggestions have little to do with this aswe already know they don't work and the reason they don't work is that the fundamental underlying causes are simply not addressed.

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masuk Gold Member

masuk

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

So many points to work on (proper driving education e.g.).

 

But for a start a traffic police force that deserves the name would help.

Speed checks, drug and alcohol checks.

Working (!) cameras, much more civil patrol cars.

Fines tenfold (for some maybe 20 or 50 fold). The amounts are laughable (must be from the 70s).

Imprisonment for negligent homicide not just paying funeral and a wai.

 

Driving without number plates is a criminal offense in many countries, here it's the norm for new cars seen daily.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more!    If traffic police/Highway Patrol were to be seen on the roads continuously, realistic fines imposed, money going to Treasury, not tea money, more speed and red light cameras which actually work, things might get better.

Licences with a points system can be a good deterrent too.   You start with 9 points.  The bigger the offence, the more points you lose as well as fines.

Once 9 points are reached, start looking for a bus or song taew.

A good, active and fully operating computerised system, will give Highway Patrols instant access to the owner's traffic history and also the vehicle's current status.

Yes, we'll hear the wailing about 'Police State', but this country cannot keep ignoring the fact that there are large, high speed cars, a poor vehicle checking system, a care-free attitude about traffic rules from white lines to speed limits.

Next time some bad-tempered road rage individual hauls out his machete and gun, give him 6 months in the cooler to think about it;   no tap on the wrist and 500 baht 'fine'.

Unless steps are taken to modernise the traffic control system, have a highly visible, well-trained and efficient Highway Patrol, we'll continue to see the youth, the tourists, the people of the country, killed in ever-increasing numbers.

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madmitch Platinum Member

madmitch

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, NumbNut said:

 

Couldn't agree more Richard, I can't see anything changing until a points-based licencing system is introduced in Thailand and enforced. Maybe combined with a vehicle impounding process for certain offences.

 

Nothing will change until traffic and vehicle transgressions are enforced.

 

I must be honest though, I would hate the price of safer roads in Thailand to mean the same level of policing we experience now in most western countries... how can we arrive at a happy medium, that is the question!

But one of the biggest problems is the number of Thais driving without licences. How can you put points on a non-existing licence? 2,000 baht fine and 3 points on your licence if you have one, 200 baht payment to the BIB if you don't! 

 

Anyone stopped without a licence should have the vehicle impounded and have to find their own way home, as well as having a five-figure fine imposed. Double the fine for a second offence and jail time for a third.

 

It's pretty easy to get a licence here, which brings me onto another point..................

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lvr181 Gold Member

lvr181

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

If road deaths are increasing it kind of puts to sleep the "all Thai drivers are stupid" theory.

As this by definition must be a constant.

 

I would suggest that the real problem is that no one has actually admitted what the problem is and that is that the authorities have not addressed any of the real underlying issues that surrounded road safety in Thailand - driving is NOT road safety, it is only one factor.

as with many of the members of TV, they fail to realise that road safety isa science based activity - as the government cant even gather statistics properly on the topic they can't SEE the situation for what it is and therefore can't even begin to start.

 

Trying to accuse Thais of being more stupid than other countries is not seeing the subject, it is applying a racial prejudice to th issue and as racism is a false premise it can't be helpful.

 

Let's drop the words 'racist/racism' and see if anything improves? Nah! 

 

Perhaps then it is a cultural problem rather than a 'racist' problem, if that helps your sensitivites? 

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lvr181 Gold Member

lvr181

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

I understand that foreigners reading this are upset by the stated numbers. But the reactions from the few Thais in the story is just feigned outrage. Thais don't care much about safety, be it on the road, workplace or anywhere else. When it's your time, it's your time.

Since Thais don't care, they won't demand government to care, so police also don't care. Just see what happens when a helmet check is being done at a school and bikes confiscated. Parents will storm the police station and demand bikes returned and this nonsense to stop. 

If the locals don't care, I don't care. 

"If the locals don't care, I don't care."

 

It is somewhat sad to read a comment like that. I can only think that you have neither family or friends who are Thais (who you may care about)? :whistling:

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connda Star Member

connda

Posted
Posted

If empty words and rhetoric were action, then Thailand would have the lowest accident and death rate in the world.  But instead - the government can pat themselves on the back for attaining Number One World Status at something - which unfortunately is allowing complete anarchy on their roads and allowing their citizens to kill each other with total abandon.  Hey Mr Prayut!  Excellent job!!!  Keep up the stellar work.

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Mattd Gold Member

Mattd

Posted
Posted

Whilst I agree that enforcement of the laws and meaningful fines would assist, it is by no means the core of the issue.

 

ONE of the issues is that a lot of Thai's drive or ride as they treat life, they just do not think at all, there is absolutely no looking ahead and predicting.

There is no feeling of mortality or fear, partly because they don't see it coming.

They are generally selfish and extremely impatient whilst on the roads.

Most will drive and see something that epitomises this several times during that drive, undertaking whilst approaching a merging junction, pulling out without looking, tailgating and constantly having to brake coz they are too close, over braking, braking for no reason, checking line or facebook constantly.

A lot of the time I am not even sure that they realise there are other road users, the look of surprise on their face when they realise!

 

People comment about the parents responsibility and I entirely agree, the hurdle there is that the parents are the same or worse and see absolutely nothing wrong with what their children do, same as why do the school authorities just let young kids turn up at school on a clapped out motorbike with no helmet, coz they don't care either!

 

This is a cultural thing that no amount of fines will resolve and TBH I am not entirely sure how to even start to make the changes, education from a very young age is perhaps a start.

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Zendo Explorer Member

Zendo

Posted
Posted

Well done !! 

 

Finally you make it Thailand, congratulations for your efforts on doing things in a so special way, Keep on the good work and continue to use your creativity on the road and the world will not be disappointed, you are an exemple for others struggling to reach that level !

 

 

https://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-vector-champion-winner-number-one-background-with-red-ribbon-olive-branch-and-confetti-on-round-455018977.jpg

 

And remember to wear your amulets and have invincibilty tatoos, so you don't need to be scared and can remain the bests !

 

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