Thai Tourist Police beginning crackdown on 200,000 over-stayers

[MyFriend You]

7 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The link is that overstayers who have no legitimate source of income and who apparently did not even have enough money to exit and get a tourist visa and re-enter legally... provide a pool of desperate people that can then recruited for illegal activities etc.

...........and who in their right mind would want anyone like that living in their country anyway??  If they can't afford  bus ticket and the price of  visa, they should go home.

[connda]

45 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

So they would need to offer amnesty about every 3 months. 
Those people that need to obtain the correct visas already had time to obtain them, why provide them with a way out for their own negligence. 

Up to last year, Thai government has been very lenient where it comes to overstayers. But the problem becomes worse, you won't solve it with being even more lenient. Overstayers need to face the consequences for what they have caused. These harsh punishments aren't caused by legal tourists or immigrants. 

 

I'm just curious.  How do you feel about illegals in other countries?  I mean, the Western press lambasts anyone who may think that illegal immigration should be enforced in our own countries  Amnesty cities, free tuition for the children of illegals, 'they only come here to better their lives', etc, etc. 
I really am just curious.  How many folks are vehemently pro-illegal immigration in their own countries, but are vehement overstay opponents and overstay critics here in the LOS, especially should a fellow foreigner attempt to work.
Then how about Thais who travel to, say, Korea (or the US or the EU) with a tour group with the intent purpose of finding a job?  This has been one of my wife's favorite topics in the last couple of day as she discusses all of the locals here in our village who have gone to Korea to work by blending in with tour groups, and then staying.

All I'm saying is that this is a multifaceted issue and one that is not even slightly seen in the bigger picture of illegal immigration, and it stinks of double standards.   It really does irk me that Thais seek to illegally stay and work in my country (and others), and I'm suppose to accept that hypocrisy or I'm a <enter your own pejorative term here>, but if I question the utter heartlessness and xenophobia of Thai immigration policy, I'm some sort of a cheap-charlie jerk seeking to suck the life out of the teats of Prathet Thai, and I'm probably at least a suspected overstayer at that, well unless I get my once or twice a year visit from immigration or the BIB, even though I reapply each year for a visa extension and report to immigration every 90 days? 
How about: "Some farang only come here to better their lives because they have been priced out of living in their own countries and need a less expensive country to reside in?"  It's the exact same argument that people from other countries enter the US, EU, and UK to better their lives.
Tell me there is no hypocrisy here?  Then explain it to me - I'm sort of simple and stupid.

[Get Real]

20 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

OK here we go again, as the Brits say third time lucky

I first quoted YOUR Post 10, in my Post 72 and to make it easier for the both of us I have quoted it here again

Now all you have to do is refresh your memory as regards what your post contained

Your hopes and wishes are certainly admirable, BUT in my opinion are just NOT going to happen EVER

That would be so out of character, in fact on its way to becoming a nanny state

If you insist on breasting forward with them, I am afraid I am going to have to accuse you of dreaming again, and its day dreaming in your case which receives no remission on conviction 

To end thank goodness, on a mutual point of agreement, you are correct it is JUST my opinion

I believe I have sorted it, what say you

Ohh, the whole thing went unimportant when I read "as the Brits say", so I just stopped there. Cheers!

[bkkcanuck8]

55 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Come on! Yeah! Let´s say it again. It´s actually a criminal activity to overstay, so according to the law. All overstayers are criminals.

Still not a criminal offence. It is "illegal" but not "criminal" (penal code).  You can be detained (not imprisoned) just held until you are deported, and you don't have a criminal record that would prevent further entry - you are just blacklisted for a period of time as an administrative punishment.  

[MyFriend You]

6 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

It's the price the rest of us have to pay for the scofflaws.  

 

200,000?  Pfffft.   Give me a call when it gets to 20 million, like in the U.S.   (OK, make it 6.7M if you want to get all proportional....)

 

 

 

1)  They can start in Arab/Indian Street in Pattaya, block the whole area off, ask all for there documents.

2)  Then  block off Walking Street on a Saturday Night and go bar to bar - bring the cattle cars, I am sure there's loads there.

3)  Then stake out all the 7/11's in country and ask every Farang with the wife beater t-shirt, tattoos, and beach ball beer belly buying Chang or Leo for their documents.

 

By next month I reckon there will be about 5K less overstayers, and thats just Pattaya /Jomtien.  Legal guys have already started carrying their passports.

[oldlakey]

9 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Ohh, the whole thing went unimportant when I read "as the Brits say", so I just stopped there. Cheers!

Sorry about that , but its never been important at this end, but you did ask me to explain it all to you as you had lost the plot

I do understand that your Post 10 has been on public view for over 7 hours which is

well beyond some peoples retention capabilities 

Thats why I Posted it again for you 

As you lot say Have a nice day

[oldlakey]

10 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Ohh, the whole thing went unimportant when I read "as the Brits say", so I just stopped there. Cheers!

I have a sneaking feeling you are telling porkies

[Winky Wilson]

IS operatives....good place to look....Night Bazaar CM

[oldlakey]

12 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Ohh, the whole thing went unimportant when I read "as the Brits say", so I just stopped there. Cheers!

OH Victoria, are you not amused

[oldlakey]

13 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Ohh, the whole thing went unimportant when I read "as the Brits say", so I just stopped there. Cheers!

55555555555

Goodnight fellow member

[MyFriend You]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Most countries if you have overstayed and voluntarily turn up at the airport, will just allow you to go, with no penalty. I have seen many people here on overstay, through circumstances beyond their control. What do you do, when your missus hides your passport? Case in point. A guy I know has an overstay. He had a 30 Million baht house, which he stupidly put in the wifes name. She borrowed against it to fund her brothers gambling habit. He lost the house. She also stole loads of money from him then pissed off and left him alone with the kids and took his passport. He is OK again now, has a new passport, but also has overstay. He can't take the kids without her permission, which she won't give. If he leaves, he can't come back, so loses the kids. Not his fault, but the system means he has to hide and hope. Now tell me again, that providing occasional amnesties is wrong and that all over stayers are criminals!

I am known as a fairly laid back guy, but when I read something like this it burns my ass, no USFRUCT on the house, why would he even think of giving his wife his passport in the first place, I'm sorry, I will not be held hostage for kids by a f'd up Thai wife...........he should leave, pay his fine and not come back.  Whats to say she doesn't turn him in and he winds up in IM Prison..........if I were his friend, I'd pay for his ticket.

[MyFriend You]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

That was really an overhelming amount of relevant information. Would you like to elaborate on that based on some of your fine facts? 

I think he meant "A snowballs chance in Hell"  The rest is I don't know what

[britishrepublican]

Good for them. Why should the rest of us jump through hoops at immigration while other remain illegally..

[oldlakey]

9 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I think he meant "A snowballs chance in Hell"  The rest is I don't know what

No I meant what I said, I am a Brit, I respectfully suggest you try and broaden you limited horizons

If you want to know what the rest is concerned with, then I suggest you read our exchange ALL of it then you wont be at a loss, after all this is an open forum 

Please dont be shy

 

[samsensam]

10 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Ignoring for a moment how people get into overstay, Thailand has itself largely to blame for the amount of long term over stayers. Once someone has gone into overstay, they have no attractive options. Face jail, get blacklisted etc. If they were to offer a short window, no questions asked, amnesty, many people would take the option to leave, either permanently, or long enough to obtain the correct visas. This would be far cheaper and efficient than the current, largely incompetent efforts, that barely scratch the surface of the problem and free the police up to actually target serious criminals. And God knows, there are plenty of them around.

 

this has already happened and yet there are still, according to the authorities, 200,000 overstayers still here. this suggests a large number of those without, bizarrely, the ability to stay here legal (really, it's not difficult) did also not have the common sense to take advantage of the amnesty.

 

the full force of the law should be brought upon those foreigners who break the law, it will be for the better for the rest of us.

[MyFriend You]

5 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

No I meant what I said, I am a Brit, I respectfully suggest you try and broaden you limited horizons

If you want to know what the rest is concerned with, then I suggest you read our exchange ALL of it then you wont be at a loss, after all this is an open forum 

Please dont be shy

 

Must be an English Comprehension problem, I indeed went back thu the posts and still haven't discovered any intelligent life in them.  I guess a cat has as much business in Hell as a snowball, is that it??

[oldlakey]

2 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Must be an English Comprehension problem, I indeed went back thu the posts and still haven't discovered any intelligent life in them.  I guess a cat has as much business in Hell as a snowball, is that it??

Oh dear, I bet your school reports all included the phrase, Must try harder

[wakeupplease]

So now the place must also be the Hub of Boiler room scams what next I wonder

[wakeupplease]

1 hour ago, TunnelRat69 said:

...........and who in their right mind would want anyone like that living in their country anyway??  If they can't afford  bus ticket and the price of  visa, they should go home.

If they can't afford  bus ticket and the price of  visa, they should go home.

 

To them this is home as its the only place they can do their job as back in their native country police stamp out boiler rooms, here they just take a backhander or tea money as some put it.

[ToS2014]

sounds like they know where to go....

[USPatriot]

Other countries should do the same.

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, car720 said:

I pray that we can survive such a thing as a perfect knight.

prayers and thoughts, perfect if you don't want to do anything at all.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, connda said:

I'm just curious.  How do you feel about illegals in other countries?  I mean, the Western press lambasts anyone who may think that illegal immigration should be enforced in our own countries  Amnesty cities, free tuition for the children of illegals, 'they only come here to better their lives', etc, etc. 
I really am just curious.  How many folks are vehemently pro-illegal immigration in their own countries, but are vehement overstay opponents and overstay critics here in the LOS, especially should a fellow foreigner attempt to work.
Then how about Thais who travel to, say, Korea (or the US or the EU) with a tour group with the intent purpose of finding a job?  This has been one of my wife's favorite topics in the last couple of day as she discusses all of the locals here in our village who have gone to Korea to work by blending in with tour groups, and then staying.

All I'm saying is that this is a multifaceted issue and one that is not even slightly seen in the bigger picture of illegal immigration, and it stinks of double standards.   It really does irk me that Thais seek to illegally stay and work in my country (and others), and I'm suppose to accept that hypocrisy or I'm a <enter your own pejorative term here>, but if I question the utter heartlessness and xenophobia of Thai immigration policy, I'm some sort of a cheap-charlie jerk seeking to suck the life out of the teats of Prathet Thai, and I'm probably at least a suspected overstayer at that, well unless I get my once or twice a year visit from immigration or the BIB, even though I reapply each year for a visa extension and report to immigration every 90 days? 
How about: "Some farang only come here to better their lives because they have been priced out of living in their own countries and need a less expensive country to reside in?"  It's the exact same argument that people from other countries enter the US, EU, and UK to better their lives.
Tell me there is no hypocrisy here?  Then explain it to me - I'm sort of simple and stupid.

I reckon a lot of people in let's say UK, object to illegal immigrants because 'my words' they are there for the hand outs supplied on the backs of those who worked, paid taxes and national insurance all their lives just to be told every year by whatever bunch is in government 'sorry we can only afford to give you an extra pound a week this year on your pension'.

Thailand does not hand out to illegal immigrants or 'illegal overstayers' nor should it.

Too many bleeding hearts out there who have completely forgotten that charity begins at home and 'my words' should stay there.

Illegal immigrants and overstayers should be treated the Thai way no matter what country they are in instead of being molleycoddled by bleeding hearts and misguided social workers.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

I reckon the point is that many looked at the cost of visa runs and new visas every year and decided that it was cheaper to go on overstay and pay the twenty on the way out then do it all again.

I would also suggest that many of them thought that the blacklisting when it went officially on the books would only be enforced in the case of long term overstay. When it became known that it was actively being applied they had no other option than stay on overstay.

Of course there may be cases ( see darksidedogs post ) where it has been impossible to correct a bad situation but most in the overstay trap are there because they didn't believe it would happen and was only a threat.

Comparing it to the system in UK, EU or USA means nothing.

Thailand is not a Nanny state so Nanny state rules mean diddlysquat.

People that stick their heads in the sand -- get their asses handed to them.  Many many people (some of them "in the know") kept on warning that this time the enforcement change was quite different.  If people decided to gamble that some day it would return to lax enforcement of overstay - really have nothing to complain about (though they will anyways).

[bkkcanuck8]

2 hours ago, connda said:

I'm just curious.  How do you feel about illegals in other countries?  I mean, the Western press lambasts anyone who may think that illegal immigration should be enforced in our own countries  Amnesty cities, free tuition for the children of illegals, 'they only come here to better their lives', etc, etc. 
I really am just curious.  How many folks are vehemently pro-illegal immigration in their own countries, but are vehement overstay opponents and overstay critics here in the LOS, especially should a fellow foreigner attempt to work.
Then how about Thais who travel to, say, Korea (or the US or the EU) with a tour group with the intent purpose of finding a job?  This has been one of my wife's favorite topics in the last couple of day as she discusses all of the locals here in our village who have gone to Korea to work by blending in with tour groups, and then staying.

All I'm saying is that this is a multifaceted issue and one that is not even slightly seen in the bigger picture of illegal immigration, and it stinks of double standards.   It really does irk me that Thais seek to illegally stay and work in my country (and others), and I'm suppose to accept that hypocrisy or I'm a <enter your own pejorative term here>, but if I question the utter heartlessness and xenophobia of Thai immigration policy, I'm some sort of a cheap-charlie jerk seeking to suck the life out of the teats of Prathet Thai, and I'm probably at least a suspected overstayer at that, well unless I get my once or twice a year visit from immigration or the BIB, even though I reapply each year for a visa extension and report to immigration every 90 days? 
How about: "Some farang only come here to better their lives because they have been priced out of living in their own countries and need a less expensive country to reside in?"  It's the exact same argument that people from other countries enter the US, EU, and UK to better their lives.
Tell me there is no hypocrisy here?  Then explain it to me - I'm sort of simple and stupid.

You are generalizing Thais as in all Thais -- and that is no more applicable than generalizing farangs as in all farangs.  If you don't appreciate being grouped as all farangs -- please respect the same for others.  I would hate to be grouped with "swirly man" just because he was a farang -- or worse yet -- from my country.

 

No person has the "right" to enter let alone immigrate (or temporary work permit) to any country of their choosing.  Every country has an admissions system with queues etc.  The citizens and government of each country sets their own rules.   I have no love loss for anyone that jumps a queue.  For me I liken to the queue to get into a movie or event -- I don't know too many people that would feel it acceptable for someone to just jump in and bypass the queue ....  it would likely end up in a nasty brawl.   Immigration for living or working in a country is often very close to a zero-sum game.  If you allow illegal immigration you are penalizing those that are legally trying to enter the country through proper means.

 

This however is not the same as a tourist visa overstay - tourists (except for environmentally controlled places) is not a zero sum game.  I don't have the same visceral reaction (if a person is not jumping the queue and working illegally) if someone overstays -- but I also have no sympathy for someone that does and gets caught (especially being fully aware of the consequences).  Until the rules were changed, people followed the lead of the government and the government was basically indicating - not really an issue.  For all purposes it was no different than jay-walking... you get a ticket pay the fine and no other consequences existed.  That has changed, and will likely never change back.  

 

I have no issue with immigration (legally) -- and have generally always been for high immigration limits, and the inclusion of labour within trade agreements (though my government has not gone as far as I would like with free movement of labour).

[ericthai]

18 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Ignoring for a moment how people get into overstay, Thailand has itself largely to blame for the amount of long term over stayers. Once someone has gone into overstay, they have no attractive options. Face jail, get blacklisted etc. If they were to offer a short window, no questions asked, amnesty, many people would take the option to leave, either permanently, or long enough to obtain the correct visas. This would be far cheaper and efficient than the current, largely incompetent efforts, that barely scratch the surface of the problem and free the police up to actually target serious criminals. And God knows, there are plenty of them around.

If i recall properly the Thai govt gave a notice of about 6 month when they introduced the ban directives of overstayers, that apparently had little effect.  

 

[ericthai]

7 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

So now the place must also be the Hub of Boiler room scams what next I wonder

Boilers rooms in Thailand is nothing new, it's been going on since the early 2000's

[Monomial]

14 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

An extreme example. I don't think the other 199,999 have a similar experience.

Extreme? Not really. I know 3 people on overstay. All have families and got into the situation due to economic difficulties. They now have no legal way to clear the problem and keep their family.

 

There really should be a way for those with families but struggling financially to appeal for leniency. These people can not even get a legal job now. It is a truly awful situation to be in and those with no empathy really need to take a hard look at the realities.

[mikiea]

23 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

The numbers have doubled overnight ?

 

 

89 arrests out of 2oo,ooo overstay ?  pitiful and shameful , no face coppers .

[bkkcanuck8]

50 minutes ago, Monomial said:

Extreme? Not really. I know 3 people on overstay. All have families and got into the situation due to economic difficulties. They now have no legal way to clear the problem and keep their family.

 

There really should be a way for those with families but struggling financially to appeal for leniency. These people can not even get a legal job now. It is a truly awful situation to be in and those with no empathy really need to take a hard look at the realities.

I am sorry, but they don't do much good getting stuck in Thailand not being able to support their families. The world is full of migrant workers with families and sometimes you have to make hard choices.  At least in modern society it is easier to keep in touch with your family while you have to be away (nightly skype calls).  They could have taken the hard decision to become legal, go back to their home country - rent a room and work (if you value other things above the comforts you can reduce the cost of living to something where you have money left over) - support your family while working on returning legally.  No immigration system that I know of puts family above the ability to support them.  If you sponsor someone for marriage in many countries you have to have a minimum income or wealth since you are becoming the sponsor to them (if you marry, 3 years later get divorced and in year 5 she goes on some sort of government assistance - the government can and often will go after you to get reimbursed).