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simon43

Is it OK to kill to protect Buddhism?

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I ask this question after reading this report:

 

http://www.newmandala.org/sitagu-sayadaw-justifiable-evils-buddhism/

 

where a very senior Buddhist monk in Myanmar seems to justify the killing of 'non-believers'.  (Please read the report on NM before commenting - it makes interesting reading).

 

I don't intend my post to be inflammatory - I am genuinely interested in understanding when killing another human being is justified by Buddhists.

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The first point to be understood here is that the religion of Buddhism was not a creation of Gautama Buddha.
After Gautama achieved enlightenment, after about 7 years of ascetic practices, following the traditional ascetic practices of the times, his initial opinion was that he would be wasting his time to attempt to teach his enlightened understanding to others, who would mostly be incapable of understanding his message.

 

Precisely how and why he changed his mind is not clear, but it seems he did spend the rest of his life attempting to communicate his enlightened understanding of the human condition.

 

Unfortunately, other power-hungry individuals, and Kings, later created the various religions of Buddhism. There are many different sects of Buddhism, and no-one really knows for certain what the Buddha actually preached.

 

However, from my understanding of Buddhism, what is happening In Myanmar, in the name of Buddhism, is a total fraud.

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I don't see how killing can protect a religion, if you need to kill to protect a religion it's not worth protecting. 

 

If the Rohingyas were proseletysing amongst the Rakhines then you'd counter that by reviving the local Buddhist practice, but I doubt very much that this is what's happening.  Rather two ethnic groups have been competing for scarce resources for centuries and now the army and clergy have gotten involved.

 

The Sayadaw's is using of a Sri Lankan saga to justify what most people who know a little about Buddhist know is not right.  The article suggests non-Buddhists are less than human but there is no justification for such a view in the original teachings and even if that were true Buddhism encourages compassion for all sentient beings human or not.

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Thanks for your comments. I can't comment on the situation in Myanmar, because I live there and any comment could be construed as meddling in the local politics.  It's interesting how beliefs and statements can be distorted (in any religion).

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Thanks for your comments. I can't comment on the situation in Myanmar, because I live there and any comment could be construed as meddling in the local politics.  It's interesting how beliefs and statements can be distorted (in any religion).

Can't comment because you live
there! That's hilarious!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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It is just an excuse and totally irrelevant anyway since all religious belief is baseless, unfounded myth.


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15 hours ago, taiwanatoa said:

It is just an excuse and totally irrelevant anyway since all religious belief is baseless, unfounded myth.


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Hi T A.

 

Your position seems to be based on the same foundation as followers of most religions.

 

Your comment appears to be based on your belief.

 

Belief:  confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.

 

Take Buddhism (specifically that which was taught by Siddhartha Guatama, the original founder of Buddhism) for example.

It can be said that even purported followers of Buddhism, let alone anyone else, have little knowledge of what was actually being taught.

 

Are you basing your contention on belief? 

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Any monk who encourages killing is defeated and no longer a monk, but falsely wearing the robes. He is deceiving the people and himself and hell is his certain destination.

Every Buddha, at the point where he decides that the Dhamma is too profound for others to understand, and decides not to teach, is appeared before by the current Brahma, who appeals to him that there are some with little dust in front of their eyes who can understand and benefit. Thus they change their minds and decide to teach, otherwise they would not be full Buddhas but only Paccekha (silent) Buddhas. Equally a monk is not supposed to go about proclaiming and teaching the Dhamma to anyone, but only should do so upon being requested.

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I only have a cursory understanding of the subject, please forgive me if I have it wrong.

I was under the impression that Buddhism was a philosophy rather than a religion. If so , how can some one not adhering to the philosophy be less than human , deserving death? Different people adhere to different philosophies some more wrong or right than others, who is to say who is wrong or right?

 Furthermore     IMO  Buddhism is a journey not a destination enlightenment is the destination, a non Buddhist could simply be at the beginning of his/hers journey, killing them would terminate such journey  being anathema to Buddhism.

 

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How many philosophies build temples? Graven idols of Søren Kierkegaard somewhere? :smile:

Consider whether you have received the wrong impression.

 

On the other hand, there isn't any set of commandments (in Buddhism anyway) that say "Thou Shalt Not Kill". So maybe it's not the Buddhists that are the hypocrites.

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15 minutes ago, Ruffian Dick said:

How many philosophies build temples? Graven idols of Søren Kierkegaard somewhere? :smile:

Consider whether you have received the wrong impression.

 

On the other hand, there isn't any set of commandments (in Buddhism anyway) that say "Thou Shalt Not Kill". So maybe it's not the Buddhists that are the hypocrites.

I would say that Buddhism are not the only hypocrites.

Do you know what Moses said to god after god proclaimed, "thou shalt not kill" "thou shalt not steal" ??

 

No shit sherlock!

Commandments need not be explicit. IMO it is implied with in Buddhism

 

 

 

 

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On 11/19/2017 at 6:22 PM, VincentRJ said:

The first point to be understood here is that the religion of Buddhism was not a creation of Gautama Buddha.
After Gautama achieved enlightenment, after about 7 years of ascetic practices, following the traditional ascetic practices of the times, his initial opinion was that he would be wasting his time to attempt to teach his enlightened understanding to others, who would mostly be incapable of understanding his message.

 

Precisely how and why he changed his mind is not clear, but it seems he did spend the rest of his life attempting to communicate his enlightened understanding of the human condition.

 

Unfortunately, other power-hungry individuals, and Kings, later created the various religions of Buddhism. There are many different sects of Buddhism, and no-one really knows for certain what the Buddha actually preached.

 

However, from my understanding of Buddhism, what is happening In Myanmar, in the name of Buddhism, is a total fraud.

It isn't happening in the name of Buddhism, that is an argument invented by Muslims who see everything in terms of religion. What is happening is happening in the name of big business, the Burmese oil reserves which are going to China and not the West, and a lot of other things. 

The appearance of religious figures that encourage military action in circumstances like these is a normal phenomenon.

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On 11/21/2017 at 1:03 PM, Brucenkhamen said:

I don't see how killing can protect a religion, if you need to kill to protect a religion it's not worth protecting. 

 

If the Rohingyas were proseletysing amongst the Rakhines then you'd counter that by reviving the local Buddhist practice, but I doubt very much that this is what's happening.  Rather two ethnic groups have been competing for scarce resources for centuries and now the army and clergy have gotten involved.

 

Muslims don't proselytise. Basically when in power (as they were until recently in the Rakhine) it is a matter of submit or die. Non-Muslims are being persecuted in Chittagong, where they speak the same dialect as the 'Rohingyans'.

This is very firmly a part of Islam and has been carried out countless times over the centuries. 

In addition the Rohingyas were taking Hindu women as wives, often by force, which means that they must become Muslim. (Muslim women are forbidden to marry outside their faith). They don't need to proselytise with the birth rate that they have.

'Local Buddhist practice' didn't need reviving, it is a strong if not stronger than in it in Thailand. Buddhist temples are being burnt down all the time in Bangladesh, often by Rohingya refugees. 

So, now I can sit back and wait to be accused of Islamophobia and/or racism.

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On 12/1/2017 at 8:35 PM, taiwanatoa said:


Can't comment because you live
there! That's hilarious!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Hilarious yes. People get thrown in prison for speaking about certain subjects all over the world, including Burma. Which is very funny of course.

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On 12/1/2017 at 8:40 PM, taiwanatoa said:

It is just an excuse and totally irrelevant anyway since all religious belief is baseless, unfounded myth.


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So your understanding of Buddhism is that it is a religion? Based on what unfounded myth? 

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