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Immigration asking impossible! UK Embassy won't certify birth cert


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I have just been given the run around up the garden path today at Chaengwattana.  I have a GRO (General Registry Office) officially certified copy of a UK birth certificate, Immigration refused to accept that and insisted that I need to get the birth certificate certified by the British Embassy, and then get it stamped by the MFA afterwards.  The trouble is, I just looked at the British Embassy's website and it clearly says they don't do that any more:

 

"We are unable to certify photocopies of British marriage, divorce, criminal record, name change, birth and death certificates, as these should be applied for through the General Register Office."

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#make-a-certified-copy-of-a-document

 

I already spoke to the "boss lady" at Immigration today who referred me to her apparent superiors on the matter.  They mulled over the GRO copy of the birth cert and concluded that they want me to get the British Embassy to certify it.  The thing is, I was not aware at the time that the UK Embassy does not certify birth certs anymore - should have done my homework on that.

 

The thing to do I guess is to call the UK Embassy to double check, then go back to Immigration and talk them into accepting my GRO copy of the birth cert.

 

If anyone else has any good info I should know on this front, I'd appreciate it.

 

BTW, I did go to the MFA too to try to get a copy of the GRO birth cert stamped but they wouldn't do it without the UK Embassy leaving their mark first.

 

 

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@kidizen The correct way to obtain a copy of your birth certificate is by following the legalisation process I have linked to. To be honest it sounds like a bit if a nightmare.

 

Try and find another solution to avoid the international paper chase.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/461072/legalisation_infographic.pdf

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/461071/Legalising_a_signature_or_seal_final_Sept_15.pdf

 

Retrieved from:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#make-a-certified-copy-of-a-document

 

 

Edited by blackcab
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6 hours ago, kidizen said:

"We are unable to certify photocopies of British marriage, divorce, criminal record, name change, birth and death certificates, as these should be applied for through the General Register Office."

Thanks for the legalisation info.  The process is way convoluted and I don't have the time. 

 

My understanding is that certifying photocopies means certifying that the photocopy is a true copy of the original when sight of the original is provided, which I can do.  Surely "these should be applied for through the General Register Office" suggests that the GRO copy should suffice."

 

It is also my understanding that Immigration only wants the British Embassy to authenticate the birth cert somehow and they are not asking for an apostilled copy of the birth certificate, or they would say so officially in writing.  The legalisation process is tantamount to getting an apostilled copy of the birth certificate.

 

The thing is, I have already got the non-O visa and extended it for a year with the GRO birth cert.

 

Just called British Embassy but they are still closed at 8:15.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, kidizen said:

The thing is, I have already got the non-O visa and extended it for a year with the GRO birth cert.

What kind of extension are you trying to apply for?

Mentioning a birth certificate makes me think you are trying to get an extension for your child.

Legalization of the birth certificate (marriage also) is nothing new.  Same for the UK embassy not certifying documents.

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13 minutes ago, kidizen said:

My understanding is that certifying photocopies means certifying that the photocopy is a true copy of the original when sight of the original is provided, which I can do.  Surely "these should be applied for through the General Register Office" suggests that the GRO copy should suffice."

Just called British Embassy and the Consular lady did confirm exactly the wording from the website " We are unable to certify photocopies of British marriage, divorce, criminal record, name change, birth and death certificates, as these should be applied for through the General Register Office."

 

 

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13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What kind of extension are you trying to apply for?

Mentioning a birth certificate makes me think you are trying to get an extension for your child.

Legalization of the birth certificate (marriage also) is nothing new.  Same for the UK embassy not certifying documents.

Non-O for child based on my Non-O Retirement. 

Edited by kidizen
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Thanks for the legalisation info.  The process is way convoluted and I don't have the time. 
 
My understanding is that certifying photocopies means certifying that the photocopy is a true copy of the original when sight of the original is provided, which I can do.  Surely "these should be applied for through the General Register Office" suggests that the GRO copy should suffice."
 
It is also my understanding that Immigration only wants the British Embassy to authenticate the birth cert somehow and they are not asking for an apostilled copy of the birth certificate, or they would say so officially in writing.  The legalisation process is tantamount to getting an apostilled copy of the birth certificate.
 
The thing is, I have already got the non-O visa and extended it for a year with the GRO birth cert.
 
Just called British Embassy but they are still closed at 8:15.
 
 
 

It's not really convoluted. Just mail everything (DHL or similar) to the UK Legalisation office, with return address envelopes. It does however take a few weeks. The Legalisation office has a website.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:


It's not really convoluted. Just mail everything (DHL or similar) to the UK Legalisation office, with return address envelopes. It does however take a few weeks. The Legalisation office has a website.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thanks.  I don't have several weeks this time so will have to see if they will accept the GRO birth cert.

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14 minutes ago, kidizen said:

Non-O for child based on my Non-O Retirement. 

You are stating this is not the first time your applied for the extension. Where did you apply for the extension before. Looking back a your posting history I don't think it was at Chaeng Wattana immigration.

You may have to start all over again by getting another non-o visa for your child at a nearby embassy or consulate. Then apply for the the extension after you get their birth certificate legalized in the UK.

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7 minutes ago, kidizen said:

I extended in Chiang Mai last time.

They apparently didn't notice the birth certificate was not legalized or were not enforcing the rule.

Chaeng Wattana has been strict about wanting it for a few years now.

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Becuase the Immigration specifically ask you to get a stamp from the Brittish Embassy, any other legal path is useless. You need to personally go to the Brittish Embassy and plead for them to put a stamp on the document. Just because they say something on their website does not necessarily prevent them from having a bit of humanity, understanding, and compassion.

Edited by AlQaholic
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7 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Becuase the Immigration specifically ask you to get a stamp from the Brittish Embassy, any other legal path is useless. You need to personally go to the Brittish Embassy and plead for them to put a stamp on the document. Just because they say something on their website does not necessarily prevent them from having a bit of humanity, understanding, and compassion.

People have already tried begging for it to be done at the UK embassy with no positive results.

At one time they would allow a person to a statement that it was true and correct that immigration would accept but a few years ago they stopped doing that. 

When immigration says the embassy it is because many countries embassies will do it. That does not mean they will not accept the legalization done in the UK.

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8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

People have already tried begging for it to be done at the UK embassy with no positive results.

At one time they would allow a person to a statement that it was true and correct that immigration would accept but a few years ago they stopped doing that. 

When immigration says the embassy it is because many countries embassies will do it. That does not mean they will not accept the legalization done in the UK.

Too bad. As for the Swedish Embassy, they similarly do not certify any documents, but they will put a stamp on the documents saying "Seen by the Swedish Embassy on...." and the date. This is a stamp but does not state anything other than that you showed them the document. Immigration is fine with that. Oops, now the secret is out......

Edited by AlQaholic
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30 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Becuase the Immigration specifically ask you to get a stamp from the Brittish Embassy, any other legal path is useless. You need to personally go to the Brittish Embassy and plead for them to put a stamp on the document. Just because they say something on their website does not necessarily prevent them from having a bit of humanity, understanding, and compassion.

You are talking about the British Embassy aren't you or has the topic changed?

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1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:


It's not really convoluted. Just mail everything (DHL or similar) to the UK Legalisation office, with return address envelopes. It does however take a few weeks. The Legalisation office has a website.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The Legalisation process is convoluted, from what I saw a year ago when I was considering a marriage visa.

At the time the process was very unclear, and it seemed that the Thai Embassy in London needed better process to support it.

Look for posts just over a year ago and Read some.

eg

 

A big issue was how you pay the Thai Embassy.

You dont know where the doc is unless you get it passed through somebody in the UK.

etc.

I needed docs within 4 to 6 weeks so no good at the time. I got the 1 year retirement.

Fortunately I had the requisite money in the bank already.

I have not yet checked for later updates on how the process works,

and whether the Thai Embassy in London may have improved things.

 

Appreciate any info people can post for update.

 

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It worked ok when I did it last year. The UK Legalisation cost £30 and the Thai Embassy in London charged £10 (had to be a postal order).

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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15 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:


It worked ok when I did it last year. The UK Legalisation cost £30 and the Thai Embassy in London charged £10 (had to be a postal order).

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Just trying to figure this out please, because i may still need to do it.

 

How did you get the UK postal order in order to send it to the Thai Embassy. 

The way people were having to pay the Thai Embassy means that it needs to go through somebody in the UK.

( Silly that they cannot accept UK cheques.)

 

What did you do for the Thai Embassy to send it to Thailand.

 

My understanding is that they way it needs to be done is

Milton Keynes > UK person > Thai Embassy > UK person > send to Thailand

 

 

Edited by jojothai
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3 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Becuase the Immigration specifically ask you to get a stamp from the Brittish Embassy, any other legal path is useless. You need to personally go to the Brittish Embassy and plead for them to put a stamp on the document. Just because they say something on their website does not necessarily prevent them from having a bit of humanity, understanding, and compassion.

 

That's never been the process. I suspect what immigration want is the document legalized. If the OP was in the UK he'd go to the Government office at Milton Keynes that does this; or post them if he prefers. Once they've legalized them they go to the Thai Embassy who also legalize them. Again personal visit or post depending on urgency/convenience/cost. They can then be presented to the immigration in the country where you are dealing with the immigration department.

 

I had similar issue when legalizing documents when family moved to UAE. Had to drive to MK and then go by train to London to their Embassy the next day. We were married in BKK so I had to get the marriage certificate authorized here by the Thai MFA and then the UAE Consulate.

 

If any immigration offices aren't asking for all this, then it's a bonus, as they aren't enforcing the rules.

 

Our kids have Thai birth certificates issued through their London Embassy. In translating form the Roman Alphabet to the Thai one different officers will use different interpretations. We had one IO spot a minor one letter difference once and refuse to accept everything!

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Just trying to figure this out please, because i may still need to do it.
 
How did you get the UK postal order in order to send it to the Thai Embassy. 
The way people were having to pay the Thai Embassy means that it needs to go through somebody in the UK.
( Silly that they cannot accept UK cheques.)
 
What did you do for the Thai Embassy to send it to Thailand.
 
My understanding is that they way it needs to be done is
Milton Keynes > UK person > Thai Embassy > UK person > send to Thailand
 
 

It does help if you have someone in the UK to get the postal order. My sister did it for me and then sent the final legalised document to me in Thailand. I'm sure there must be a way around the postal order and I believe the documents can be sent from Thailand/UK/Thailand with the correct postage paid envelopes.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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34 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:


It does help if you have someone in the UK to get the postal order. My sister did it for me and then sent the final legalised document to me in Thailand. I'm sure there must be a way around the postal order and I believe the documents can be sent from Thailand/UK/Thailand with the correct postage paid envelopes.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thanks.

I understood last year that Thai Embassy has to be cash or postal order.

However, I suppose you could send cash with the docs in the post.

Its not normally recommended. But after all if its only 10GBP.

 

I wouldn't recommend that anybody sends such important items by post from UK to Thailand without having registered / DHL and tracked. Otherwise no clue what could happen to it.

Could be a whole waste of time and money.

 

Thai Embassy should be woken up to join the 21st century and be able to use application on line with payment by card /accept UK cheques but also include DHL process cost if you want it sent to Thailand. 

Various types of services adopt this approach (but charge for it) including Uk Passport renewal.

Many Thai gov online services dont work here so Im not sure that such could  be achieved well in the near term.

 

Playing it safe through UK family / friends step by step looks like the way I would have to go.

Takes a long time. Alright if you plan needs well ahead.

 

Would be good if anybody else can contribute  any recent experience for update

 

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13 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

does the certification process apply also to the uk embassy in singapore, malaysia ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

I believe so. Check the Embassy country web sites.

I thought it was an across the board change in what the consulates will or will not do.

Similar to the fact that you now can only get a passport from the UK.

No longer Hong Kong. 

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@jojothai maybe of assistance to u the singaporean uk embassy offers a standard letter confirming the certification etc. service was not any longer available. hence the uk embassy in bkk should offer the same thus taking the letter to thai immi might make them change their mind.

 

wbr

roobaa01

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Just now, roobaa01 said:

@jojothai maybe of assistance to u the singaporean uk embassy offers a standard letter confirming the certification etc. service was not any longer available. hence the uk embassy in bkk should offer the same thus taking the letter to thai immi might make them change their mind.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Good to know thanks.

I think that the expediting agencies or brown envelopes may have a better chance $$$$$,

but thats a different subject.

 

Problem is that the legalisation is stated in black and white on their requirement list.

For immigration to accept, the Thai MOF would have to accept and stamp the doc but they dont do so without the Embassy stamp.

Hence courtesy of the change by the UK authorities, it is now necessary to get it done in UK.

 

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FYI

 

Similar to the OP started who started the thread,

I have extra original  registrar copy of uk marriage certificate and I am prepared to give them this - so I should not need a copy.

However I was told that this is still not acceptable at immigration without the certificate having the legalisation.

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