Pattaya moans: Nothing but rude Indians, Chinese and Arabs - "they treat the place like they own it"

[balo]

2 hours ago, moe666 said:

The one thing I have noticed this year in Chiang Mai is more Americans than in the last few years.

That's because CM has been globally advertised as the HUB for young digital nomads , plenty of Americans are working from one of the many network cafes around town. Same in Pattaya but more mixed nationalities here. 

CM has always been popular  for US travellers, don't ask me why , maybe they don't like sin city in the south .

 

 

 

[Petchou]

Coming from people in Pattaya, it's normal, they complain about not seeing their favorite farangs bars and girls customers.   Who will trust judgement of these people?

[norrska]

On 2/25/2018 at 12:31 PM, JSixpack said:

 

Hard to say. The intelligent posters who leave give an intelligent reason for leaving, such as ran out of money, need for free health care in the nanny state, free Western education for the kids. Or they give no reason, just disappear. Reading through old threads sometimes for a bit of historical perspective, I rather miss some of them.

 

But one thing they have in common is that, being intelligent, they don't need to congratulate themselves on their superior intelligence and handle on the "truth." And they don't come back to the forum to do so while trolling and posting bigoted nonsense. They have better, happier things to do.

 

Member Mobi is a good case in point. Proven intelligent guy, an author, a bit disillusioned w/ Thailand but would have stayed except for the deterioration of his health and finances. When he left, he left. No subsequent trolling, sneering, posturing, and wasting webspace here. Good man; I just looked at his blog.

 

So then what we have here is, on the contrary, evidence that it's mostly the idiots who've left-- though of course more arrive daily--who obviously aren't really so happy in their new lives. As is often observed here on the forum, they probably wouldn't be happy anywhere, so their bashing can't be taken seriously.

Barring an unforeseen tragedy, not sure I would put running out of money in the "intelligent" category.

[Rimmer]

Flam/baiting post and replies have been removed

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, norrska said:

Barring an unforeseen tragedy, not sure I would put running out of money in the "intelligent" category.

 

"Unforeseen" is your key word.

 

[champers]

3 hours ago, norrska said:

Barring an unforeseen tragedy, not sure I would put running out of money in the "intelligent" category.

I enjoyed Mobi's posts and his vlog (still do), but I would have to seriously question the intelligence of someone who has been married six times. His brain has been located further South than is the norm.

[norrska]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

"Unforeseen" is your key word.

 

Confucius say, man who only look for key sometime not see keyhole

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, champers said:

I enjoyed Mobi's posts and his vlog (still do), but I would have to seriously question the intelligence of someone who has been married six times. His brain has been located further South than is the norm.

 

Judgement is a different matter and as the news attests daily can certainly be affected by excessive alcohol consumption. In Mobi's goodbye thread, ace TVF Relationship Counselors, specializing in Thai women, hardly failed to point fingers. I don't recall Mobi having any regrets about the wimmens, however. (Correct me if I'm wrong; it's been a while.) I suppose that can be understandable if one reflects on the great relationships of the past that didn't work--though they might have--esp if the responsibility for having screwed them up falls upon oneself.

 

 

[norrska]

1 hour ago, champers said:

I enjoyed Mobi's posts and his vlog (still do), but I would have to seriously question the intelligence of someone who has been married six times. His brain has been located further South than is the norm.

Not sure about the details of your reference, but if it is the one who wrote the "Anyone looking for a regular house cleaner /maid in Pattaya area?", sounds like he was getting smarter by the 6th one..........

[champers]

10 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

Judgement is a different matter and as the news attests daily can certainly be affected by excessive alcohol consumption. In Mobi's goodbye thread, ace TVF Relationship Counselors, specializing in Thai women, hardly failed to point fingers. I don't recall Mobi having any regrets about the wimmens, however. (Correct me if I'm wrong; it's been a while.) I suppose that can be understandable if one reflects on the great relationships of the past that didn't work--though they might have--esp if the responsibility for having screwed them up falls upon oneself.

 

 

I believe intelligence plays an important part in making a judgement.

[chrisandsu]

3 minutes ago, champers said:

I believe intelligence plays an important part in making a judgement.

A lot of luck helps too . 

[norrska]

3 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

A lot of luck helps too . 

Sorry, missing the logical connection of how "a lot of luck" is required to make a judgement....

[JSixpack]

22 minutes ago, champers said:

I believe intelligence plays an important part in making a judgement.

 

You could tell that to Norman Mailer, 'cept he's dead now. He did manage only 6 divorces but then again he had 2 Pulitzers. If you look into the studies I think you'll find that there is in fact a correlation between intelligence and higher divorce rates. Be that as it may, I find all the celebs w/ high divorce rates (the usual suspects), and certainly Mobi, far more intelligent than a TVF troll, esp those coming back to troll the Pattaya forum after they've left Pattaya. Trolls would disagree, of course--and have.

 

[chrisandsu]

9 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

You could tell that to Norman Mailer, 'cept he's dead now. He did manage only 6 divorces but then again he had 2 Pulitzers. If you look into the studies I think you'll find that there is in fact a correlation between intelligence and higher divorce rates. Be that as it may, I find all the celebs w/ high divorce rates (the usual suspects), and certainly Mobi, far more intelligent than a TVF troll, esp those coming back to troll the Pattaya forum after they've left Pattaya. Trolls would disagree, of course--and have.

 

Your not putting yourself in the intelligent poster line are you ? That would go against a lot of people’s better ‘judgement ‘?

[norrska]

11 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

You could tell that to Norman Mailer, 'cept he's dead now. He did manage only 6 divorces but then again he had 2 Pulitzers. If you look into the studies I think you'll find that there is in fact a correlation between intelligence and higher divorce rates. Be that as it may, I find all the celebs w/ high divorce rates (the usual suspects), and certainly Mobi, far more intelligent than a TVF troll, esp those coming back to troll the Pattaya forum after they've left Pattaya. Trolls would disagree, of course--and have.

 

Meanwhile, a bit of junior gumshoe research shows the "more  marriages = higher IQ" theory to be completely wrong.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/attraction-evolved/201711/intelligent-men-more-likely-marry-and-stay-married

Thank god for due diligence.  This bogus theory might have been believed had it been shared in a bar.

[chrisandsu]

23 minutes ago, norrska said:

Sorry, missing the logical connection of how "a lot of luck" is required to make a judgement....

Judgement can be an educated guess . Which requires a slice of luck for it to go to plan . When it doesn’t go to plan , like currency fluctuations, a pension company going bust illness , then you are not getting the best of luck even though your judgement seemed sound at the time .  

[norrska]

2 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Judgement can be an educated guess . Which requires a slice of luck for it to go to plan . When it doesn’t go to plan , like currency fluctuations, a pension company going bust illness , then you are not getting the best of luck even though your judgement seemed sound at the time .  

LOL,  I am glad you have downgraded the "a lot of" to a "slice"!

[chrisandsu]

1 minute ago, norrska said:

LOL,  I am glad you have downgraded the "a lot of" to a "slice"!

Really depends on how big the slices are . Next time I’ll use decimal points ?

[norrska]

9 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Really depends on how big the slices are . Next time I’ll use decimal points ?

LOL, remember the great one liner by Yogi Berra — 'Cut my pie into four pieces, I don't think I could eat eight.'

[mercman24]

BANGKOK  is the new INDIA, and they think the chinese dont spend money, you want to see this lot in action, many tales of them going to a restaurant and sharing meals, i even seen them sharing drinks in one of my locals last week there were 8 of them.not buy 1 drink for staff/girls, just take all the <deleted> bar

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, norrska said:

Meanwhile, a bit of junior gumshoe research shows the "more  marriages = higher IQ" theory to be completely wrong.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/attraction-evolved/201711/intelligent-men-more-likely-marry-and-stay-married

Thank god for due diligence.  This bogus theory might have been believed had it been shared in a bar.

 

Point taken, but that's why I said "be that as it may" as it's not really relevant to the discussion as an individual isn't a stat.

[Mac98]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:44 PM, lonewolf99 said:

Anyone want to add to this list of only a few reasons why the Westerners are not coming in the numbers they did in say 2005?

 

Overly strong Baht.

Too many scams.

Blinkered tourist board courting the wrong nationalities  i.e. now over run with Chinese, Indians, Middle Eastern, Madagascans ?

Not listening to advise from Westerners already in LoS.

Filthy beaches and Sois.

As mentioned, bag snatching.

Brutal unprovoked assaults.

Deadly roads.

Ineffective Policing combined with corruption.

Unsafe balconies........

Junta.

Restrictive legitimate Visas for extended periods.

Obese gogo dancers and bar girls...............

 

 

 

Reverse that list, then add Pattaya taxis wanting 300 baht for a five-minute trip. 

[SpokaneAl]

For Americans, Thailand is a long, long expensive trip, and if one spends only a week or ten days here, they will be lucky if they begin to recover from most of the effects of jet lag before it is time to get back on the airplane. Additionally, Thailand is a poor, dirty country and after one sees a couple of beaches and is templed out, there is little to get excited about. For vacation choices there are plenty of better, cleaner, closer choices within the borders of the US without the jet lag and language challenges.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[juice777]

Anyone want to add to this list of only a few reasons why the Westerners are not coming in the numbers they did in say 2005?
 
Overly strong Baht.
Too many scams.
Blinkered tourist board courting the wrong nationalities  i.e. now over run with Chinese, Indians, Middle Eastern, Madagascans ?
Not listening to advise from Westerners already in LoS.
Filthy beaches and Sois.
As mentioned, bag snatching.
Brutal unprovoked assaults.
Deadly roads.
Ineffective Policing combined with corruption.
Unsafe balconies........
Junta.
Restrictive legitimate Visas for extended periods.
Obese gogo dancers and bar girls...............
 
 
 

How about people focusing on the negative things on the Internet.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[beachump]

Definitely going for quantity not quality nowadays. 

[spidermike007]

And why are they not able to attract the Western tourists, like they used to? 

 

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem. Of course, in Thai society, it is not particularly popular to look within for the source of the problem.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Zero baht tourists are perhaps the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here.

 

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartier complex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No, we only have the 2015. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. 

 

But again, the lack of vision, combined with a naive, surly, silly, churlish, and ignorant sense of nationalism, bites the country in the butt. And again, who is the loser? The Thai people. 

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. For a hundred valid reasons.

 

Little P. Moving Thailand backwards at a breath taking, alarming and astonishing pace. Not making Thailand great again. 

[JSixpack]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And why are they not able to attract the Western tourists, like they used to? 

 

Again, this is a situation where nobody is attempting to get to the root of the problem. Of course, in Thai society, it is not particularly popular to look within for the source of the problem.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss how Thailand lost the golden egg of Western tourism. Those tourists, unlike most Chinese tourists, spent anywhere from $100 a day, to over $2,000 a day. They brought real money into the country, and in exchange, were treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, most said no more. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine service and selection at fair prices, which rich tourists demand), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.  

 

So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. They came in droves. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Zero baht tourists are perhaps the majority who visit Thailand now. Sure, they spend some money in restaurants, and in 7/11. But, that is about it, for some of the super low budget Chinese tours. Not many rich Chinese are not visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options.

 

There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. The very first thing would be to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here.

 

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartier complex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No, we only have the 2015. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Wait a minute. You have 100 bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. 

 

But again, the lack of vision, combined with a naive, surly, silly, churlish, and ignorant sense of nationalism, bites the country in the butt. And again, who is the loser? The Thai people. 

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. For a hundred valid reasons.

 

Little P. Moving Thailand backwards at a breath taking, alarming and astonishing pace. Not making Thailand great again. 

 

The country has been suffering a declining tourism industry in your dreams. That will not change. In reality, the trend has been quite positive. The Golden Egg Layers of old simply ran out of golden eggs but that elephant in the room always gets ignored for the sake of bashing about whatever. Wine.  

 

Same post already responded to here:

 

 

And that's today's Whither Thailand doom prophecy except we've added a rant about the price of wine. We'll add that to the large pile.

 

I think perhaps a few decades from now, they will have tourism classes at university, where they will discuss the TVF Poster Golden Egg Theory Of Thai Economics along with the Flat Earth theory. You seem still not familiar yourself with classical Golden Egg Theory, its history and underpinnings, with crucial related concepts such as Fixed Pie, but a brief summary, distilled from years of ace economic analyses, is found here.

 

A video of a motorbike trip from Jomtien to Pattaya in 1994:

 

 

It was in the heyday of the great Golden Egg Layers, the quality tourists, i.e., the "naughty mongers," the economic powerhouses behind Pattaya's now-vanished prosperity, the great jobs creators, who were "put off" and left for Cambodia etc. where they're wanted. It was before visa fees had risen, the Big Bang that sent Thailand back to the Stone Age. Before the crash of 1997. Before the Perpetual Pattaya Death Spiral!

 

So then, according to myth, booming Pattaya had no abandoned or unfinished buildings. No shophouses were closed. No cracks in the clean streets or sidewalks. Walking and jogging, recently whinged about by one of our members who's been unable to jog for probably decades, on the promenade was then so easy. No motorbikes were parked on that promenade. No delicate aesthetic sensibilities were offended by unsightly clutter. What a paradise.

 

Ha! What a TON of closed shophouses everywhere. Unfinished buildings. Dirt & cracks. Cars, even boats, parked on & blocking the promenade. HUGE mess on the beach side as you approach WS. Traffic. Cop enforcing a one-way. Whole place looks like it really was in an economic depression! Now compare Pattaya as it is today, 4 times larger, after 20 years of dire prophecy (starting in the Pattaya Mail). HUH? Now I'm beginning to lose some faith in our doomsters. IS IT POSSIBLE WE HAVE BEEN MISLEAD?

 

And Chinese do spend quite a lot, just not in beer bars. This has been demonstrated with objective evidence and discussed previously. We probably don't need another repetition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 9:57 PM, ezflip said:

To follow up on my previous post - If Americans are truly dead-set on being scammed and fleeced, they might as well go south of their own border. No jet-lag, airfare is cheaper, plenty of spicy food and the beer/tequila is the same.

 

Otherwise, for near enough the same airfare price, going to Vietnam is a much better deal.

You're just jealous us Americans are so loved.

[pattayadude]

On 11/27/2017 at 2:02 PM, chrisandsu said:

Americans are not big travellers at all

why travel when in one country they have the 4 climates almost every month of the year, every nationality, snow skiing and surfing can be done in many cities within the country, good roads to travel, honest people, no scams or attitudes

[petermik]

9 hours ago, pattayadude said:

why travel when in one country they have the 4 climates almost every month of the year, every nationality, snow skiing and surfing can be done in many cities within the country, good roads to travel, honest people, no scams or attitudes

where is this country......