Thai govt pledges great effort on road safety

[Badrabbit]

There is a "T" intersection about 100 meters from a local school near my home, and each afternoon at the end of the school day a Policeman is on point duty directing the traffic here. It includes several hundred very young school children on motorbikes, many who do not wear helmets, and look underage. I have always thought the Policeman should call at the school and advise the principal that "tomorrow we will be inside the school gates and will prevent all children without helmets and drivers licences from leaving the school grounds with motorbikes. Please make an announcement to all children and staff today so they are forewarned." 

 

 

Great idea, never happen!!Same thing happens at my daughter's school everyday, many kids not wearing a helmet plus driving like lunatics within the school, school is not bothered so why would the Police be bothered, only when something happens will action be taken but only for a short while, gradually it will return to how it was, no one gives a dam here! 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

They will not do a thing. Why? They do not care about the people one iota. Not the common people. Not the average pleb. No way. Never have cared, and may never care in the future. It is all about protecting the elite, the super wealthy, those that are connected, and those in power. The rest of the population? They do not matter. The ex-pat community does not matter. 

 

As I have said previously: The primary reason is the toy police force. Nobody, and I mean nobody takes these guys seriously. There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis. And the police will not get involved unless an accident has already occurred. There is no prevention. None. The idea of getting the police more involved, is an interesting one, and it would be an effective one. But, the issue is money. They are grossly underpaid, and until the government steps up, and spends the trillion baht on updating the police equipment, and paying each cop a living wage, it is not going to happen. Until then, they will just work the franchise. 

 

When I was growing up, we took drivers education classes. They showed us these horrendous films, of semi trucks crashing into cars, and literally obliterating them, and everything inside. Also, they showed very graphic images of head on collisions. Even as a young kid, it left a lasting impression, and I realized driving was no joking matter. Especially when you have your friends, or loved ones in the car with you. I am constantly astonished at the kinds of chances people take here, with their entire family in the car with them. Why? What is the logic? What is the reason? Why take those risks? Often, when someone cuts onto the highway in front of me, as I am doing 100kpm or more on the highway, I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me for quite some distance. Which means, had they paused, and waited 2 or 3 seconds, there would have been zero risk to them, their family, or me and my family. What can one even say? All of this matters even more when driving a motorbike, where there is no protection. 

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law. 

[joeyg]

Any discussion/effort to save lives is admirable.  What will the result be remains to be seen.  For now all the Thai bashing is making my <deleted> hard!

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, The Teacher said:

Just a few simple steps and it can be achieved,

1 - get all motorcyclists off the footpath,

2- In city hot spots reduce the speed.

3 Loss of license for speeding and have their car crushed for scrap metal as they watch.

 

It's not rocket science just a government with the balls to do it 

Sadly no...that is not the solution. But it is a good example of how those with little understanding of road safety think. It shows that they are unaware of how large and manifold  the issues are.

It's a bit like saying all we need to go to the moon is a big rocket....   In fact although it's  not, it is more like rocket science than some would imagine 

[Airbagwill]

32 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

They will not do a thing. Why? They do not care about the people one iota. Not the common people. Not the average pleb. No way. Never have cared, and may never care in the future. It is all about protecting the elite, the super wealthy, those that are connected, and those in power. The rest of the population? They do not matter. The ex-pat community does not matter. 

 

As I have said previously: The primary reason is the toy police force. Nobody, and I mean nobody takes these guys seriously. There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis. And the police will not get involved unless an accident has already occurred. There is no prevention. None. The idea of getting the police more involved, is an interesting one, and it would be an effective one. But, the issue is money. They are grossly underpaid, and until the government steps up, and spends the trillion baht on updating the police equipment, and paying each cop a living wage, it is not going to happen. Until then, they will just work the franchise. 

 

When I was growing up, we took drivers education classes. They showed us these horrendous films, of semi trucks crashing into cars, and literally obliterating them, and everything inside. Also, they showed very graphic images of head on collisions. Even as a young kid, it left a lasting impression, and I realized driving was no joking matter. Especially when you have your friends, or loved ones in the car with you. I am constantly astonished at the kinds of chances people take here, with their entire family in the car with them. Why? What is the logic? What is the reason? Why take those risks? Often, when someone cuts onto the highway in front of me, as I am doing 100kpm or more on the highway, I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me for quite some distance. Which means, had they paused, and waited 2 or 3 seconds, there would have been zero risk to them, their family, or me and my family. What can one even say? All of this matters even more when driving a motorbike, where there is no protection. 

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law. 

So exactly the same as every other road in every country 

[Airbagwill]

When I write about road safety, I'm acutely  aware that I could die tomorrow in a crash.

More likely than most because I drive more than most. (NB - Thailand doesn't  gather VKT).

I'm also aware that many on Thaivisa would see my death as a vindication of their spurious arguments.

In reality all this does is show how profoundly misinformed most of TV's road safety commentators are.

Almost all derive their opinions (a loose use of the word) from their personal anecdotal  experience without realizing what an appallingly bad way that is of forming an accurate picture.

They then spend countless posts talking about (bad) DRIVING apparently in the belief that this is synonymous  with road safety. Only further illustrating their lack of grasp of the issues involved.

Finally....or rather primarily  They then turn to a blinkered interpretation of one single WHO stat and claim it supports their fallacious arguments.

This is just the people on Thaivisa....imagine how far this ignorance extends. It is clear that this and successive, previous government's have absolutely no idea about road safely....even the press statements from the recent conference show that the information presented  has gone straight over the heads of any government officials attending.

There are plenty  of organisations prepared to offer solutions, but with an obduracy that would be the envy of a mule, they have ignored or worse still, resisted any advice from at home or abroad.

Will things change? Yes they most certainly will. Time and again Thailand when faced  with losing face has brought about change. How quick or effective remains to be seen depending on whether they listen to the advice of others 

 

[Road Warrior]

I agree with tthMan 100% 

[Airbagwill]

16 hours ago, Russell17au said:

still on the main subject but a different problem.

Thai licenses do not have your address on them so when you get pulled over for speeding and you produce your license and you are given a ticket for 10,000 baht because you are a farang, how do the authorities collect that money from you. The only address would be on record at the Land Transport Office, but if you are like the previous owner of where I am living and you have not changed your address then how can they collect the money for the fine? If Thailand collected the money for the fines then I believe that there would be money available to get the police out on the road in decent vehicles and enforce the law and that would bring in revenue that could be used for education and training, but there is no way of track the offenders down until either their car registration or license is due for renewal. Big Problem

This comes under the 5 Es as E for enforcement.

This is one of the reasons why, even if the police were  to "do their job" or draconian fines were introduced there is no effective legal it collection system to follow up.

Most countries have laws which prevent fines from going to specific causes as doing this increase the chances of corruption.

[Airbagwill]

All these comments boil down to the same ridiculous things....either the belief that all Thailand's road safety problems will be solved if we concentrate on one single aspect or a litany if egregious generalisations and slurs about Thai people.

[Rimmer]

A slur has been removed, please see the following forum rule:

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Blue Muton]

16 hours ago, Russell17au said:

still on the main subject but a different problem.

Thai licenses do not have your address on them so when you get pulled over for speeding and you produce your license and you are given a ticket for 10,000 baht because you are a farang, how do the authorities collect that money from you. The only address would be on record at the Land Transport Office, but if you are like the previous owner of where I am living and you have not changed your address then how can they collect the money for the fine? If Thailand collected the money for the fines then I believe that there would be money available to get the police out on the road in decent vehicles and enforce the law and that would bring in revenue that could be used for education and training, but there is no way of track the offenders down until either their car registration or license is due for renewal. Big Problem

That's not so with the new "smart" licences, mine have my address on the back in both Thai and English.

 

One fewer "Big Problem" in the world.

[Happyman58]

Oh boy that is funny  That will never happen the police standing inside the gates stopping the underage kids There only thought is soon we can get these kids 200 baht for tea money Besides the cop is only there to make up the numbers he never intends to book anybody or stop them

[Happyman58]

22 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

All these comments boil down to the same ridiculous things....either the belief that all Thailand's road safety problems will be solved if we concentrate on one single aspect or a litany if egregious generalisations and slurs about Thai people.

Air the only problem that has to be fixed is the cops Made them enforce the law and the road deaths might drop Tell u a funny this morning You have to see this to believe it I was travelling home after my bike ride with my bike in the back of the pick-up I was sitting on about 70 klm Speed limit is 80 Klm  Ok  The highway patrol car passed me and crossed back into my lane Left lane i was in Cars came down the right lane and they were moving I would say doing about 120klm  Highway speed I was doing 70klm and i reckon the cop car was sitting on about 80klm He never made one attempt to pull them over  I just shook my head So what is that telling the thai drivers Its cool to speed because the cops wont do anything. Might as well put Mary Poppins behind the steering wheel of the cop car because at least Mary might of hit them over the head with her umbrella for speeding.

[natway09]

As I previously said they need outside help. The Police will not do anything.

100 mufti cars equipped with radar trackers out there on the road will help.

Mini vans 80 KM an hour maximum.

6 wheel trucks & up same. Thats a start

[Jonmarleesco]

On 12/7/2017 at 11:47 AM, webfact said:

Sutee emphasised that the government had made it a mission to reduce road accidents. It has banned speeding, driving while drunk or drowsy and use of mobile phones while driving and encouraged the use of crash helmets and safety belts.

And how many of those actually work, and how many are enforced?

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Almost all derive their opinions (a loose use of the word) from their personal anecdotal  experience without realizing what an appallingly bad way that is of forming an accurate picture.

They then spend countless posts talking about (bad) DRIVING apparently in the belief that this is synonymous  with road safety. Only further illustrating their lack of grasp of the issues involved.

Then perhaps you should enlighten us with some actual facts from your experience.

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Air the only problem that has to be fixed is the cops Made them enforce the law and the road deaths might drop Tell u a funny this morning You have to see this to believe it I was travelling home after my bike ride with my bike in the back of the pick-up I was sitting on about 70 klm Speed limit is 80 Klm  Ok  The highway patrol car passed me and crossed back into my lane Left lane i was in Cars came down the right lane and they were moving I would say doing about 120klm  Highway speed I was doing 70klm and i reckon the cop car was sitting on about 80klm He never made one attempt to pull them over  I just shook my head So what is that telling the thai drivers Its cool to speed because the cops wont do anything. Might as well put Mary Poppins behind the steering wheel of the cop car because at least Mary might of hit them over the head with her umbrella for speeding.

QED

[Airbagwill]

44 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Then perhaps you should enlighten us with some actual facts from your experience.

If you bother to read, the facts are all there - I think you have a comprehension problem here - I'm not referring to my experience, i'm referring to those people who have expertise a research on the subject - I quite clearly stated that personal experience is the WORST of all reasoning and those who don't understand this - like many in the government are actually impeding progress - fortunately in other countries they were discounted and ignored.

[MrY]

Going back 20 years again, I read to my surprise Thailand had acquired their first 12 radar guns and was training the police force to use them. This was going to make a big difference in road safety. Not a word about when and if there would be more than twelve. A couple of years later I moved near a "Police Academy" in Bangkok and found out the number had indeed remained same. Two were used for training in more or less fixed locations around the academy (I still see radars being used in those spots quite frequently) and the other 10 were on rotating loans to the provinces. Police cadets were learning about radar, but many never even saw one. And what point would there be? I have been clocked exactly once over hundreds of thousands kilometers and got a 200 baht fine (an actual ticket, not a 'donation') for exceeding a non-existing speed limit by 38 km/h (!) on the highway (8 km/h over the actual verifiable limit). A mighty 5 Euro deterrent! At about the same time my friend in Europe lost his license for 6 months for a 'similar' violation (173 on 120 on an actual divided motorway with ramps and rails, etc.), got a €600 ticket, temporarily lost his driving job, spent another € 1000 to get his license re-issued, and he considered it justified punishment. My  €5 ticket is now on the wall of his garage...  A few other times there were claims my speed was checked by 'radar' but I was always let go when I insisted on seeing this magical ray gun. There are more radars in Thailand now, but clearly not enough to make a difference. No number of speed traps ever will if the fines cost less than a fill-up and don't accumulate in any way on your license. Same story with breathalyzers...

[Airbagwill]

9 minutes ago, MrY said:

Going back 20 years again, I read to my surprise Thailand had acquired their first 12 radar guns and was training the police force to use them. This was going to make a big difference in road safety. Not a word about when and if there would be more than twelve. A couple of years later I moved near a "Police Academy" in Bangkok and found out the number had indeed remained same. Two were used for training in more or less fixed locations around the academy (I still see radars being used in those spots quite frequently) and the other 10 were on rotating loans to the provinces. Police cadets were learning about radar, but many never even saw one. And what point would there be? I have been clocked exactly once over hundreds of thousands kilometers and got a 200 baht fine (an actual ticket, not a 'donation') for exceeding a non-existing speed limit by 38 km/h (!) on the highway (8 km/h over the actual verifiable limit). A mighty 5 Euro deterrent! At about the same time my friend in Europe lost his license for 6 months for a 'similar' violation (173 on 120 on an actual divided motorway with ramps and rails, etc.), got a €600 ticket, temporarily lost his driving job, spent another € 1000 to get his license re-issued, and he considered it justified punishment. My  €5 ticket is now on the wall of his garage...  A few other times there were claims my speed was checked by 'radar' but I was always let go when I insisted on seeing this magical ray gun. There are more radars in Thailand now, but clearly not enough to make a difference. No number of speed traps ever will if the fines cost less than a fill-up and don't accumulate in any way on your license. Same story with breathalyzers...

Tere are many more radar/speed detectors now and they are often quire easy to spot as the police seem to use the same stretches of road time and again. I got a speeding ticket and photo from Lampang about 4 years ago and since then, I've kept an eye out.

But th problem isn't how many - it is how they ae used and is there an accompanying infrastructure.

You need a verifiable calibration system

Trained operators and of course and entire legal system that is set up to deal with any offences detected - this ranges from a system of fines courts, and collection system - Thailand is way way away from achieving this - in fact it is pretty impossible to set up outside a democracy.

It's no good setting up enormous fines unless there is a possibility of collecting - and some peopel could avoid them for decades before the courts rules either way.

I note now that the maximum possible speeding fine in theUK could be in excess of £10000 pounds, but there is every possibility that that could be enforced.

 

[MrY]

'Calibration' has way too many syllables to ever be used in Thailand.

[MrY]

...and it wasn't a calibration issue with my ticket. I was indeed driving approximately the speed I got a ticket for. The speed limit had been "temporarily changed" (but not actually posted). The reason stated? They needed people to slow down for the checkpoint. The very same one they used to issue fines for speeding...

 

"There is a logic, it's just not your logic." - Anonymous old-timer on Thailand

[lvr181]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

They will not do a thing. Why? They do not care about the people one iota. Not the common people. Not the average pleb. No way. Never have cared, and may never care in the future. It is all about protecting the elite, the super wealthy, those that are connected, and those in power. The rest of the population? They do not matter. The ex-pat community does not matter. 

 

As I have said previously: The primary reason is the toy police force. Nobody, and I mean nobody takes these guys seriously. There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis. And the police will not get involved unless an accident has already occurred. There is no prevention. None. The idea of getting the police more involved, is an interesting one, and it would be an effective one. But, the issue is money. They are grossly underpaid, and until the government steps up, and spends the trillion baht on updating the police equipment, and paying each cop a living wage, it is not going to happen. Until then, they will just work the franchise. 

 

When I was growing up, we took drivers education classes. They showed us these horrendous films, of semi trucks crashing into cars, and literally obliterating them, and everything inside. Also, they showed very graphic images of head on collisions. Even as a young kid, it left a lasting impression, and I realized driving was no joking matter. Especially when you have your friends, or loved ones in the car with you. I am constantly astonished at the kinds of chances people take here, with their entire family in the car with them. Why? What is the logic? What is the reason? Why take those risks? Often, when someone cuts onto the highway in front of me, as I am doing 100kpm or more on the highway, I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me for quite some distance. Which means, had they paused, and waited 2 or 3 seconds, there would have been zero risk to them, their family, or me and my family. What can one even say? All of this matters even more when driving a motorbike, where there is no protection. 

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law. 

"They do not care about the people one iota. Not the common people. Not the average pleb. No way. Never have cared, and may never care in the future. It is all about protecting the elite, the super wealthy, those that are connected, and those in power. The rest of the population? They do not matter."

 

All this equals a third world feudal society, for that is all they are! And there will be no change in the foreseeable future. 

[MrY]

There will be change. Unless of course you have the exact amount in your pocket...

[Happyman58]

11 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Then perhaps you should enlighten us with some actual facts from your experience.

I agree Jonmarleesco We are waiting from Air how he deals with all the wonderful drivers here in Thailand Just maybe he has another reason why so many people die on roads here apart from breaking the rules and bad driving and an ineffective police force

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, MrY said:

...and it wasn't a calibration issue with my ticket. I was indeed driving approximately the speed I got a ticket for. The speed limit had been "temporarily changed" (but not actually posted). The reason stated? They needed people to slow down for the checkpoint. The very same one they used to issue fines for speeding...

 

"There is a logic, it's just not your logic." - Anonymous old-timer on Thailand

This again shows that both the law and police training are nowhere near ready to enforce the law. Which I believe if stated by a "competent police officer" is all that is needed in that situation. V. regarding changing the priority from the left rule and other temporary changes.

The point being that it is all very well asking officers to enforce the law, but on many occasions the law is an assignment, uninforceable and needs to be extensively reformed before it can contribute to road safety.

 

PS how do you know it was calibrated?

[Stargeezr]

Reading some of the comments made me believe that some other commentors

have also been to India.  Another country that has lots of drivers who should not even

be let into a car let alone have a drivers license.

Geezer

[wakeupplease]

Action as the country becomes the No1 for the deadliest drivers and deadliest roads in the world, but you and I know this means sod all, come Jan 8th and the count up will be lower as one would expect with this lot at the helm, but in real life it will be higher.

 

So I suppose if I do not see you posting in Jan, it was your turn this year, me, I know where I an better off.

 

You drive with extra care over these next 4 weeks, as I have lost enough friends already.

[lvr181]

37 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

Action as the country becomes the No1 for the deadliest drivers and deadliest roads in the world, but you and I know this means sod all, come Jan 8th and the count up will be lower as one would expect with this lot at the helm, but in real life it will be higher.

 

So I suppose if I do not see you posting in Jan, it was your turn this year, me, I know where I an better off.

 

You drive with extra care over these next 4 weeks, as I have lost enough friends already.

A tattoo I have seen says  "Live to ride and ride to live" and the same thought applies to car drivers (live to drive and drive to live). The words 'Love' and 'Live' can be interchangeable.

 

Just take exta care out there folks. 

[bluesofa]

11 hours ago, MrY said:

There will be change. Unless of course you have the exact amount in your pocket...

Or: change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.