newnative Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 hours ago, rtco said: I live in Pattaya and am a frequent visitor to some of the bars and pubs etc. Apart from the odd few these places a devoid of customers some are even empty and that is even in the supposed high-season. Pattaya is dying as a tourist destination and nothing TAT do or say is going to stop the process. Seriously, get over it already. The new tourists aren't spending their time in your bars and pubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I believe him. Up 10% from the ten tourists, we got one more european. Though he's from Somalia, but it's the Swedish passport that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk6060 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I definitely see an increase. Also, property values in prime locations are up mostly do to Chinese. If people actually get out and travel they will see what a desirable place Pattaya is. I know many haters "hate" to hear it, but this place will become more and more popular. I am looking forward to 2027 and all the posts about how great it was back in 2017. Go and enjoy this place now. Not many like it in the world for single males/older males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvavin Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Thais are extremely good in their statistics! LOL......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champers Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 hours ago, NanLaew said: He does have his acolytes. You can get ointment at the chemist for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 A troll post has been removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puritan Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 11 hours ago, AhFarangJa said: Now I know why Hua Hin is dead......They all went to Pattaya... No they've all gone back to Hua Hin, there's no one left in Pattaya, apart from Chinese and a few Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Such a struggle to find an empty seat in a bar in pattaya to rest your weary legs after fighting through the crowds to find a bar with a empty seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Jim walker said: Such a struggle to find an empty seat in a bar in pattaya to rest your weary legs after fighting through the crowds to find a bar with a empty seat Pattaya's bar scene got vastly overdeveloped with predictable consequences. The traditional bar patrons are a lot more spread out than they used to be in the so-called heyday when they were more densely concentrated. That fact tends to mislead our statisticians. If so many bars existed in the 90s, you'd also find plenty of empty seats and a thinner crowd everywhere. Another point is that it's no longer necessary to go to bar to find female companionship. Apps are taking over so that many of the best ladies no longer need to work at bars--who can blame them? The OP points to a modest increase of European tourists from some unknown reference point, probably last year, but emphasizes the Chinese tourists, who, contrary to the myth here, spend quite a lot in their venues. So what you might want to do is see how easy it is to find an empty seat in a Walking Street seafood restaurant during prime time or even in the Central food court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 18 hours ago, klauskunkel said: Is that the guy's office, or living room? In either case it surely looks like he is doing OK. He looks like he just got off the set of a horror movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keesters Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The number of tourists means NOTHING. What they are spending is what COUNTS. Are they spending MORE? From my observations I very much doubt it. More people spending less money = BAD TOURISM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk6060 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Just now, Keesters said: The number of tourists means NOTHING. What they are spending is what COUNTS. Are they spending MORE? From my observations I very much doubt it. More people spending less money = BAD TOURISM. They probably are spending more then the Falang that are here still trying to live on $300 a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconutman Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/9/2017 at 5:15 AM, ezzra said: It is... try to drive in Pattaya now days or better yet, find a parking spot, Pattaya is always busy around this time of the year, but this is not the Pattaya of old, it's all about money now, and stupid edict like don't smoke on beaches, tones of drugs and illicit sex and every other vice under the sun is available not to mention variety of Mafia Thai and foreignness operating there, never mind all that as long as the tourists are still coming..... Its not up.. i can drive down beach road to walking street and be at second road in under 15 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Keesters said: The number of tourists means NOTHING. What they are spending is what COUNTS. Are they spending MORE? From my observations I very much doubt it. Confirmation bias. Common myth on the forum for various reasons: Assessment only in posters' preferred venues Reliance on laughable shopping bag count at brief random intervals Ignorance of new development catering to new tourist market Failure to read corporate reports that attribute increased revenues to tourists Ignorant economic confusion of tourist spending with tourist revenue generation Overbuilding of beer bars, thinning out appearance of monger numbers Underlying it all may simply be the arrogant bigotry of the TVF Poster Golden Eggs Theory Of Economics. (If you're not familiar with classical Golden Egg Theory, its history and underpinnings, with crucial related concepts such as Fixed Pie, a brief summary, distilled from years of ace economic analyses, is found here.) You may read more in depth, with documentation, on the question of the current crop "spending MORE" here: Quote More people spending less money = BAD TOURISM. TAT isn't after "more people" per se as is clearly evidenced by the prohibition of zero baht tours. But we do have more tourists generating more revenue as noted above. Hence the economy has at least quadrupled since those great economic powerhouses, the moneyed Golden Egg Layers (some of whom are still renting rooms off Soi Buakhao), left for Cambodia etc. You may prove that to yourself by watching (so meeting the critical TVF Poster Eyeballs Test) a video from 1994: It was before visa fees had risen in 2003—the Big Bang that would send Thailand back to the Stone Age.(Read Ruling out the foreigner, the 28-page granddaddy of all "killing the goose" bash fests). Before the crash of 1997. Before the Perpetual Pattaya Death Spiral! Ha! What a TON of closed shophouses everywhere. Unfinished buildings. Dirt & cracks. Cars, even boats, parked on & blocking the promenade. HUGE mess on the beach side as you approach WS. Traffic. Cop enforcing a one-way. Whole place looks like it was in an economic depression! Now compare Pattaya as it is today after 20 years of dire prophecy (starting in the Pattaya Mail) and going downhill. HUH? You may begin to lose some faith in our doomsters. IS IT POSSIBLE WE HAVE BEEN MISLEAD? So what we have nowadays is more tourists generating more revenue. Sorry. Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabphil Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Coconutman said: Its not up.. i can drive down beach road to walking street and be at second road in under 15 minutes That extra lane sure helps, despite the assertions it would do nothing. But you see it used to be 5 minutes without the extra lane. And you very deliberately ignored the point about parking. Similarly there used to be no problems finding a spot on Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, or the side streets, notably Sois Post Office and Yamato. Now--forget Beach Rd, ride around and get lucky on 2nd Rd and the sois. Just a couple of years ago finding a motorbike spot on 2nd across from Central was NO problem. Now it's tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk6060 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Less bar business? The current tourists don't come here to sit in a Soi Buoakow bar for 8 hours looking at depressed old Falang. That is from times past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Coconutman said: Its not up.. i can drive down beach road to walking street and be at second road in under 15 minutes Umm. I think your perception of time and distance is somewhat lacking. Beach Road to Second Road is not very long to begin with and there are no traffic lights on it other than the pedestrian crosswalk lights. If it is taking you almost 15 minutes to get to Second Road you are, indeed, in heavy traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trianglechoke Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 i came today to get out of bkk., i haven't been here for 10 years.......... booming ten years ago obviously has a different meaning to booming today............ or maybe there is secret bar i dont know about and EVERYONE is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodymassagemyfriend Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 08/12/2017 at 11:15 PM, ezzra said: It is... try to drive in Pattaya now days or better yet, find a parking spot, Pattaya is always busy around this time of the year, but this is not the Pattaya of old, it's all about money now, and stupid edict like don't smoke on beaches, tones of drugs and illicit sex and every other vice under the sun is available not to mention variety of Mafia Thai and foreignness operating there, never mind all that as long as the tourists are still coming..... Busy because of buses. Roads are by far not as busy as they where 10 years ago. I have been here several monthes every year so their is no doubt about it for me. The various places i am going to ( malls, restaurants ) are less crowded then before ,if not barely empty. Its on the expensive side so Pattaya expansion should not affect to much this interpretation. Regarding low end tourist like Chinese , i can't tell really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodymassagemyfriend Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 20 hours ago, newnative said: Seriously, get over it already. The new tourists aren't spending their time in your bars and pubs. Neither do they spend it on the dirty beach or 'cultural place' like Cathedrals , old city monuments , museums , libraries ... They just come where to be stamped as 'tourist' on their passport. Is that your saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodymassagemyfriend Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 hours ago, JSixpack said: That extra lane sure helps, despite the assertions it would do nothing. But you see it used to be 5 minutes without the extra lane. And you very deliberately ignored the point about parking. Similarly there used to be no problems finding a spot on Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, or the side streets, notably Sois Post Office and Yamato. Now--forget Beach Rd, ride around and get lucky on 2nd Rd and the sois. Just a couple of years ago finding a motorbike spot on 2nd across from Central was NO problem. Now it's tight. Tourist usually DONT have cars in Thailand so we are talking about locals here? Regarding motorbike , i saw police was more strict on illegal parking so this might explain this ; and of the many tourist i see , few have motorbikes so 10% increase in motorbikes means 0.05% tourist more. Adverse figure is that good restaurants i used to know are closed so ... Its probably nothing but low budget tourists, if any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodymassagemyfriend Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, newnative said: Umm. I think your perception of time and distance is somewhat lacking. Beach Road to Second Road is not very long to begin with and there are no traffic lights on it other than the pedestrian crosswalk lights. If it is taking you almost 15 minutes to get to Second Road you are, indeed, in heavy traffic. Depends on the time , 5 years ago , it could take up to 45 minutes to drive from soi 1 to walking street starting from 7-8pm busy untill 10pm. And anytime in the past and now , you can make it in 3 minutes in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 56 minutes ago, bodymassagemyfriend said: Tourist usually DONT have cars in Thailand so we are talking about locals here? Tourist usually DO have cars in Thailand if they're Thai tourists or otherwise often rent them, not to mention traveling around in the tour buses our posters constantly complain about. Yes, we're legitimately talking about locals here too--because the tourists have supported a much larger economy than before, enabling more Thais to live and work here. Quote Regarding motorbike , i saw police was more strict on illegal parking so this might explain this ; 2 No. Quote and of the many tourist i see , few have motorbikes so 10% increase in motorbikes means 0.05% tourist more. 3 Oh, lots rent motorbikes, seems you have no idea what you're talking about. Sit at the Red Cat bar (if you can find a seat nowadays) and watch the police stop them in front of the station. Moreover, the greater tourist revenue mentioned above has led to FAR more locals here riding and parking their bikes. Quote Adverse figure is that good restaurants i used to know are closed so ... Its probably nothing but low budget tourists, if any The great Golden Egg Layers, those moneyed economic powerhouses behind Pattaya's now-vanished prosperity, who built Pattaya but were "put off" and have all left for Cambodia, were what one might call budget tourists (SHOCK). Some are still staying over in flophouses off Soi Buakhao and eating at Kiss as has been the custom. The good restos you used to know have been replaced by other good restos (and more of them) that the later tourist demographic do patronize sufficiently. For example I was sitting in Hippo recently (some Chinese sitting behind me) and looked across at the Hilton to see a bunch of Chinese there as well. And we'll add the pricier hotels . . . go sit in the lobbies of the Hilton or Holiday Inn and see for yourself who's keeping them afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, bodymassagemyfriend said: Depends on the time Try 3 AM. Duh. Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, bodymassagemyfriend said: Depends on the time , 5 years ago , it could take up to 45 minutes to drive from soi 1 to walking street starting from 7-8pm busy untill 10pm. And anytime in the past and now , you can make it in 3 minutes in the morning. Well, I think we agree that Pattaya Beach Road to Second Road is not a great distance and can be driven in less than five minutes in light traffic. So, if the poster is claiming the traffic is very light now and it only takes him 15 minutes to do the drive, something doesn't quite add up. It probably does move faster now than in years past due to the extra lane. But, I invite you and the other poster to get yourselves up to the 45th floor sky pool at Centric Sea Condo. From that fairly central location, you get an astounding view of Pattaya in every single direction and it's very easy to see that Pattaya has grown tremendously in the past 5 or 6 years and not everything and everyone is crowded into the areas that you remember as being packed. As for the new tourists, I encounter them pretty much everywhere, certainly in many of the same places that I frequent. Why, they are even on the 'dirty beaches' you mentioned. Surely you remember the poster from the other day complaining bitterly that he couldn't stick his big toe in the water because the beach was too crowded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, newnative said: Well, I think we agree that Pattaya Beach Road to Second Road is not a great distance and can be driven in less than five minutes in light traffic. So, if the poster is claiming the traffic is very light now and it only takes him 15 minutes to do the drive, something doesn't quite add up. It probably does move faster now than in years past due to the extra lane. But, I invite you and the other poster to get yourselves up to the 45th floor sky pool at Centric Sea Condo. From that fairly central location, you get an astounding view of Pattaya in every single direction and it's very easy to see that Pattaya has grown tremendously in the past 5 or 6 years and not everything and everyone is crowded into the areas that you remember as being packed. As for the new tourists, I encounter them pretty much everywhere, certainly in many of the same places that I frequent. Why, they are even on the 'dirty beaches' you mentioned. Surely you remember the poster from the other day complaining bitterly that he couldn't stick his big toe in the water because the beach was too crowded. SO true! +1. Looks like we have our 2017 High Season Death Thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 3 hours ago, newnative said: Umm. I think your perception of time and distance is somewhat lacking. Beach Road to Second Road is not very long to begin with and there are no traffic lights on it other than the pedestrian crosswalk lights. If it is taking you almost 15 minutes to get to Second Road you are, indeed, in heavy traffic. Well if it takes "heavy traffic" to get the cars to drive at a speed when pedestrians can cross safely I hope there is "heavy traffic" 24/7. Given the pedestrian crossing lights have been turned off and even when they were working drivers ignored them, I hope the average speed of cars on Beach and Second is lower than 1kph as it's the only way pedestrians can cross without being maimed. Stationary for 50% of the time would be even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 44 minutes ago, newnative said: Well, I think we agree that Pattaya Beach Road to Second Road is not a great distance and can be driven in less than five minutes in light traffic. So, if the poster is claiming the traffic is very light now and it only takes him 15 minutes to do the drive, something doesn't quite add up. It probably does move faster now than in years past due to the extra lane. But, I invite you and the other poster to get yourselves up to the 45th floor sky pool at Centric Sea Condo. From that fairly central location, you get an astounding view of Pattaya in every single direction and it's very easy to see that Pattaya has grown tremendously in the past 5 or 6 years and not everything and everyone is crowded into the areas that you remember as being packed. As for the new tourists, I encounter them pretty much everywhere, certainly in many of the same places that I frequent. Why, they are even on the 'dirty beaches' you mentioned. Surely you remember the poster from the other day complaining bitterly that he couldn't stick his big toe in the water because the beach was too crowded. Unfortunately, almost every poster on this subforum assumes that "Pattaya" extends only between North Rd and South Rd and as far up as 3rd Rd. It's actually been "grown" for decades. Tourists have been sitting on Pattaya beach since long before the "Russians" and the "Chinese" tourists were even thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Well if it takes "heavy traffic" to get the cars to drive at a speed when pedestrians can cross safely I hope there is "heavy traffic" 24/7. Given the pedestrian crossing lights have been turned off and even when they were working drivers ignored them, I hope the average speed of cars on Beach and Second is lower than 1kph as it's the only way pedestrians can cross without being maimed. Stationary for 50% of the time would be even better. The pedestrian crossing lights are back on and have been for awhile. The traffic seems to be stopping, or at least slowing down, maybe a tiny bit more for the lights than before but caution is still very much needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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