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Bought 12 Cows have limited knowledge

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Hi...... As well as all the great advice on feeding etc  I was hoping to pick up some information on where to buy

cows and where to sell  by weight after fattening... I am limited at this time to just 1 place near Surin to sell and or

someone visiting  our small farm offering to buy by eye not weight...  Any advice on this would be most welcome..

Thanks Joe

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it has  to be said that kickstart is the man!

on selling /buying try facebook..... i bet there is a page for your province/area that covers cattle, it will be in thai so if you cannot read thai, like me,  get the wife to have a look and join in the facebook "fun"..

over the past month we have managed to sell some pups via some page or other, our 2 main whole sale buyers were not interested this time... selling on there meant that we nearly doubled our selling price....

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4 hours ago, kickstart said:

Looking  yesterday ,this morning ,the penny droped , the Thai way of buying and selling cattle .that photograph, you had just bought the cattle ,at prices from 18-25 000 baht /head ,that price is allso 110-120 baht /kg  the weight of the cattle  would be 300 kg  one or two might make 350 kg, so say 120 baht/kg @300 kg  that would be, 36 000 baht , which you did not pay ,but as I said the Thai way is, you take off  50-55 % for K O %, which  is killing out % what you  have left in the meat , once the head, hide, bones  ect are taken out.

So , the cost of 1 animal would be about 18-20 000 baht, which is what you paid, for some of your cattle.

I use this system when some farmers have asked me what this cull cow is worth ,not  normally far out .

Also the Thai way,is a  one pricing system  for all class of stock ,that would be for cull cows and fat beef  cattle , and the bags of bones you see grazing beside the roads ,( now about 80-90 baht/kg), now as you say,  the price is  110 baht/kg , making it a bearly viable proposition, to produce good quality beef here in Thailand ,they are some outlets that will buy quality beef, but not easy to find,one near me ,but he will still only pay no more than 20 baht/kg above market price .

So,your estimate of 500 kg , bull selling for 55 000 could be way out .

Or look at this way, our local market sells beef from 220-250 baht/kg ,a beef bull weighing say 450 kg ,on the hoof ,then take off 50% KO%  that would give you , 225 kg of salable meat ,that would be about 50 000 baht ,by the  time it has gone from the hoof to your local market ,it would have passed through a few hands ,and everyone wants they cut ..

 

 

Hi Kickstart.....  well I cannot doubt your knowledge or experience and also Thoongfoned say's "Your the Man"  so that is great to know that I am getting good advice....But,,, I am a bit daft maybe so perhaps you can advise on my confusion with your pricing manner/suggestion over my personal experience of cow selling,,,>>>Here goes,,,

I visited the Feed Company premises up near Surin, last May.. They sell feed and buy your cows if you buy their feed... I saw a que of 5 or 6 vehicles with cows on the back..  Mostly 1 cow per vehicle(local farmers). They drove onto a weighbridge with cow, weighed, drove off, then returned after unloading cow to get weighed again.... I followed the full process of 2 vehicles.... including discussion with the driver/owner of the cows. Guy 1 cow weighed 630kg and he showed me the slip just given by the company. It was basically a receipt for a 630kg cow that they were paying 110bht per kg for. Total 69300bht.

The money was to be transferred by the company direct to the cow owners bank.(that is the only way they pay)within a few days.. Same routine for second guy,   572kg at 110bht per kg = 62920bht.......   These were live cows still eating and crapping... The guys were just selling because they wanted money and they thought the cows were not going to get any bigger...... 

So unless my maths is wrong it seems like I should expect a similar kg price(subject to current market price).... Which would suggest that if my cows reach 500kgs(which we feel is slightly low) I should expect 55,000bht...... Against my (Avg)purchase cost of say 22000bht. (bought by eye not by weight).... minus feeding cost  estimated at 10-12000 bht... (over 5 months). minus Transportation of 500bht each way.. plus say 4000bht labour per cow.... the rest is up to Buddha as my family say..... So very roughly I calculate 40000bht out over 5 months with a return of 60000bht(avg 550kg) after 5 months ,,,per cow.....  (subject to calamities)... (That is what I am basing  the costings, investment and projections on)

I hope you can advise on my confusion with your suggestion that I could be way out on expecting 55000 for 500kg cow...

Am I missing something big or obvious in between.....(basically by being a daft farang from the city)....

Thanks for your time and responses so far Kickstart.... 

Hopefully you will avoid any exasperation with my city simpleness/understanding  and guide me accordingly if you have the time...

Many Thanks.... Joe 

 

 

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2 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

it has  to be said that kickstart is the man!

on selling /buying try facebook..... i bet there is a page for your province/area that covers cattle, it will be in thai so if you cannot read thai, like me,  get the wife to have a look and join in the facebook "fun"..

over the past month we have managed to sell some pups via some page or other, our 2 main whole sale buyers were not interested this time... selling on there meant that we nearly doubled our selling price....

Hey Thoonfoned....   That is a great idea, I will check it out on facebook in Thai... I have been trawling the net for this information without getting anywhere.

I guess farmers don't use websites too much in Thailand......  but facebook that is a different story as many of their kids/relatives will probably be on facebook..... Lets see what I can find....  Thanks, your tip is much appreciated....Joe

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Personally i would take one out of your system now to the buyer and find out exactly what it's worth to sell and whether he would be able to cater for the rest as they grow out at the same time.

For piece of mind for you and me.:smile:It may be possible if your cutting out a few middlemen in the process.

Let us know how you get on.

My wife just told me in our village we are paying 360baht/kilo from local butcher shop.

 

Edited by farmerjo
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10 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

buying is always  more easy then selling, from what i have experienced, in most things dont you find? 

you said that the feed seller would buy back the animals if finished with their feed? look at other feed shops/mills ect.. try and get to know the owners/money people... look at how much they would give you.  father in law must have some idea, ie market places, near/far. local middle men who buy/sell.  word of mouth kind of thing in your amper.....

failing that "just" slaughter and sell the meat yourselfs, better margins.... approach the local mum/dad type stores and see if they would buy X kg at X amount baht? stalls in busy market places? at the end of the day someone will have to go out and find these contacts to make the business work, contacts. contacts, it all takes time, dont be in a hurry, if you have enough time/money and people get to know you, people will come to you but of course this again will take time. time = money / feeding/ looking after the animals.  try and do as much work yourselfs, dont pay a monthly wage to outside people, what can not be done to day will still be there tomorrow..ect....

the wifes knows a lady locally that breeds some sort of cattle that fetch crazy money, have humps, very large, i dont know about cattle 5555. but she does well, been doing it many years, knows people, nevere sells low money, never buys expensive......

when we had some cattle the wifes father did the lot, looked after fed/watered, never bought any feed in or spent out on meds, the only outgoing was some money for the mating. he built the shed from odds and sods that was around. made money cos had the original female for 8 plus years, bought her for 5,000 baht pregnant, few years later same animals had gone up to 15,000 ish baht, just inflation.. lucky, but only made money because he kept breeding her and than the new animals ect...  used to slaughter in the village then sell at 500, 1000 baht bits. sometimes father inlaw would sell an animal to random people that just stopped him on the road, but when we wanted to sell. like this week/ now the price offered was always very low....

 

Hi Thoongfoned.... That is really interesting reading for me and makes great sense... It is obvious that time served experience is the best way to make  it all  work out.... Yes, I need to spend more time in the zone to understand how best and who best to work with... Not sure about the butchering thing as I am a bit unaccustomed to slaughter of living things and would prefer to remain 1step away from that. My FiL, no problem to chop one up but it's  not for me..

However, it is something I can explore later if necessary(or out of site, especially from my kids..they've given some pet names. ).

I was given the suggestion of special breed cows like Kobe, I feel that is a good idea but I need to find the outlet market first... (I understand Kobe cows drink beer and listen to music.. Seems Saturday night in the cow shed wouldn't be too bad.. but I guess it will all be on my tab...lol..)

Like you say it is always seems easier to buy than sell,,, Fortunately we are not under so much pressure to sell and  I will take yours and other posters advice to take it easy and walk before I run....  I will concentrate on good feed and good contacts....

Your advice is appreciated.... Many Thanks   Joe...

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Hi Thoongfoned.... That is really interesting reading for me and makes great sense... It is obvious that time served experience is the best way to make  it all  work out.... Yes, I need to spend more time in the zone to understand how best and who best to work with... Not sure about the butchering thing as I am a bit unaccustomed to slaughter of living things and would prefer to remain 1step away from that. My FiL, no problem to chop one up but it's  not for me..
However, it is something I can explore later if necessary(or out of site, especially from my kids..they've given some pet names. ).
I was given the suggestion of special breed cows like Kobe, I feel that is a good idea but I need to find the outlet market first... (I understand Kobe cows drink beer and listen to music.. Seems Saturday night in the cow shed wouldn't be too bad.. but I guess it will all be on my tab...lol..)
Like you say it is always seems easier to buy than sell,,, Fortunately we are not under so much pressure to sell and  I will take yours and other posters advice to take it easy and walk before I run....  I will concentrate on good feed and good contacts....
Your advice is appreciated.... Many Thanks   Joe...
Sure you can cross in some wagyu (Kobe is just a geographical area) but for that you need some mother cows.
And with the genetics it is long not sure you have some marbling in your meat.
Many other factors involved such as feed etc.
Once you have them ready, find a buyer who is paying a premium price for your cattle.
Much in Thailand is unfortunately about the price not quality
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ok my 2 cents worth on price....

around us the fresh kill beef will be priced from 320-370 per kg depending.... has been this way from a while, maybe 2 ish years. always sells out early in the day, even though i would think it is expensive. supermarket, macro ect. would start from 250 ish baht....

so you say the feed shop guy will pay around the 110 baht per live kg, so thats about one third of retail shop price direct to you, saving time and all that messing about with middle guys. sounds about right. good deal for you and him.

the feed shop guy will get paid out twice from buying your animals, firstly by selling you the feed then secoundly by selling said animal on or slaughter themselves and making even more.  selling volume on feed will be the guys main thing and the good quilty meat/animal will just be the iceing on the cake, so to speak.

i have some understanding or similar experinece but with the pigs, the buyers will usually end up paying a third of the retail price on shop fed  animals, and less for the rice husks type of pigs.

just my take.

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with cows they must drink loads of water in a day? just guessing... if they do try and make the water suply clean and plentyfull, maybe add some EM to the water tanks and get some good gut health going, would/could help with growing out stats????  forum member: isaanaussie i would imagine could help or advise on this type of thing... or maybe google.... 

i would say dont under estimate the importance of good clean water for animals.... again just some thoughts.

all the best,

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11 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

with cows they must drink loads of water in a day? just guessing... if they do try and make the water suply clean and plentyfull, maybe add some EM to the water tanks and get some good gut health going, would/could help with growing out stats????  forum member: isaanaussie i would imagine could help or advise on this type of thing... or maybe google.... 

i would say dont under estimate the importance of good clean water for animals.... again just some thoughts.

all the best,

You are right about water supply. According to IME it takes 15,415 litres to produce 1 kg of beef.

 

I remember our General talking about how Sa Kaeo was struggling to grow rice due to there being no major rivers in the province and not enough water. Their solution, I kid you not, was to make Sa Kaeo the beef capitol of Thailand.

 

From the same source, it takes 2,497 litres of water to produce 1 kg of rice.

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20 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

with cows they must drink loads of water in a day? just guessing... if they do try and make the water suply clean and plentyfull, maybe add some EM to the water tanks and get some good gut health going, would/could help with growing out stats????  forum member: isaanaussie i would imagine could help or advise on this type of thing... or maybe google.... 

i would say dont under estimate the importance of good clean water for animals.... again just some thoughts.

all the best,

I see cattle drinking water wherever they free range during the day. Liver flukes are a big concern because of drinking standing water.

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11 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I see cattle drinking water wherever they free range during the day. Liver flukes are a big concern because of drinking standing water.

correct ..  you have to drench them every 6-12 months and also give them a tick dip (  small dose of tick kill on their backs )  at the same time.

If you don't do this they will end up sick and never fatten correctly.

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.Back to price,looking at the australian market indicator,bulls are selling for around 70 baht/kilo to 450kg's.

So your 500kg bull would be 35,000 baht or as KS says in Thai 500kg's at your 110 baht minus half is 27,500 baht.

Unless someone has sold lately and can verify price.

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