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Bought 12 Cows have limited knowledge

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New cowboy 

                     I am not disputing your budget  figures  they look , on paper ok ,it is your buyer I cannot understand buying a 630 kg beef bull for 69000 baht ,I said this to my misses ,and she looked a bit dumbfounded , also paying the money in to the bank, something new for me  around here all cash .

A dairy farmer near me had a Friesian bull , that was a big animal, weighed 600 kg , the owner said he was worth 60 000 baht, not certain if that was for beef or breeding value, so these prices are out there..

Also you are in Issan ,I am in the central plains, Lopburi, things are done differently, like sugar cane you have weigh stations ,we do not,and as farmer jo ,and just now thoongfoned said, you all so  have expensive beef  on your local market our price of 220-250baht/kg has ao ls been that 2 years now. 

Your buyer paying 69000 for 1 animal , and your local market price of  320-370 kg , all in perpective, compaed to us But  where does this  buyer sell his cattle?, how does he make his money ?does have his own market stalls all over Issan selling beef , ? does his own slughtering,and dressing ,no middal man ?, other outlets ?,is he a middal man and sells on ? and how long has he been trading ,if he has been going for some years ,ok ,but a new guy bewear?,here to day........,agine as toongfoned said , this is Thailnd, and I would say they would have a face book page ,could be worth a look.  I am intreaged,at this one.

 A beef bull weighing 550 -650 kg ,is a big animale, we have very few like that  around here ,also to get to that weight ,a lot depending on breed ,that animal would be about 3 -4 yers old ,if that was your own stock ,a long time to get your money back ,what would the cost of feed be.

If you kept your beef bulls for another year plus ,you could them up to that weight, again at what cost.

Wagyu cattle, this has come up before on TV ,3 years ?ago they was a thread on the subject ,try TV history.

I found an artticl in a Thia farming mag once ,it was a co-op in Korat  which you had to be a member of ,and thay where very fussy ,had to have the right doner cows ,Kampangpet/Tark breeds, all Charaloies x  Brahaman ,I think thay provided the Wagya semen ,and then brought back the cattle ,sold them though the co-op ,thay came and inpected  your cattle ,thay had a lot of say ,but with the price the beef sells for , and the spealalised  market ;it would be the only to go.

Doing it yourself would be very difficult, you would struggle to find the markets.

CLW

       You asked about TMR ,that is , where all the cows feed is put in to a mixer wagon  and feed to the cows in the cattle shed ,no concentrate is feed in the milking parlour ,it has been a Thai thing for some years now ,DPO at Mortlec ,Saraburi, The milk producing arm of the Thai -Denmark milk company ,thay have a lot of cows .are on a TMR system .

With a mixer wagon costing, 70 000 baht plus ,most are now made in Thailand ,you would need to milk at least 70 cows plus ,a big dairy herd for Thailand ,and the farm management has to be good to make it work ,espeally for the freshly calved cows ,that need the extra feed ,that a TMR system here in Thailand can not provide ,diet short of  energy , if they are to perform to there potential, and to make some money.

Farm near me is on a TMR  sytem  for him it does not work ,

a

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New cowboy 
                     I am not disputing your budget  figures  they look , on paper ok ,it is your buyer I cannot understand buying a 630 kg beef bull for 69000 baht ,I said this to my misses ,and she looked a bit dumbfounded , also paying the money in to the bank, something new for me  around here all cash .
A dairy farmer near me had a Friesian bull , that was a big animal, weighed 600 kg , the owner said he was worth 60 000 baht, not certain if that was for beef or breeding value, so these prices are out there..
Also you are in Issan ,I am in the central plains, Lopburi, things are done differently, like sugar cane you have weigh stations ,we do not,and as farmer jo ,and just now thoongfoned said, you all so  have expensive beef  on your local market our price of 220-250baht/kg has ao ls been that 2 years now. 
Your buyer paying 69000 for 1 animal , and your local market price of  320-370 kg , all in perpective, compaed to us But  where does this  buyer sell his cattle?, how does he make his money ?does have his own market stalls all over Issan selling beef , ? does his own slughtering,and dressing ,no middal man ?, other outlets ?,is he a middal man and sells on ? and how long has he been trading ,if he has been going for some years ,ok ,but a new guy bewear?,here to day........,agine as toongfoned said , this is Thailnd, and I would say they would have a face book page ,could be worth a look.  I am intreaged,at this one.
 A beef bull weighing 550 -650 kg ,is a big animale, we have very few like that  around here ,also to get to that weight ,a lot depending on breed ,that animal would be about 3 -4 yers old ,if that was your own stock ,a long time to get your money back ,what would the cost of feed be.
If you kept your beef bulls for another year plus ,you could them up to that weight, again at what cost.
Wagyu cattle, this has come up before on TV ,3 years ?ago they was a thread on the subject ,try TV history.
I found an artticl in a Thia farming mag once ,it was a co-op in Korat  which you had to be a member of ,and thay where very fussy ,had to have the right doner cows ,Kampangpet/Tark breeds, all Charaloies x  Brahaman ,I think thay provided the Wagya semen ,and then brought back the cattle ,sold them though the co-op ,thay came and inpected  your cattle ,thay had a lot of say ,but with the price the beef sells for , and the spealalised  market ;it would be the only to go.
Doing it yourself would be very difficult, you would struggle to find the markets.
CLW
       You asked about TMR ,that is , where all the cows feed is put in to a mixer wagon  and feed to the cows in the cattle shed ,no concentrate is feed in the milking parlour ,it has been a Thai thing for some years now ,DPO at Mortlec ,Saraburi, The milk producing arm of the Thai -Denmark milk company ,thay have a lot of cows .are on a TMR system .
With a mixer wagon costing, 70 000 baht plus ,most are now made in Thailand ,you would need to milk at least 70 cows plus ,a big dairy herd for Thailand ,and the farm management has to be good to make it work ,espeally for the freshly calved cows ,that need the extra feed ,that a TMR system here in Thailand can not provide ,diet short of  energy , if they are to perform to there potential, and to make some money.
Farm near me is on a TMR  sytem  for him it does not work ,
a
KS, about the TMR.
What I understand so far is that you could also mix concentrate in the mix.
I was thinking more of it to make work easier. From a certain number of cows (your example 70 heads) it's a lot of work to feed them if you do this manually by cart.
With the mixer wagon you throw in everything, let it mix for a while and then drive past your cows to deliver the feed.
Of course it's about investment cost first and if you could make a return after a few years.
Another positive effect what I've just heard (no actual experience) is that with the mixed feed the cows will eat some kind of not so delicious feed that they would leave if not mixed together.

About the wagyu crossbreed
On another thread here on TV I stumbled upon this website pornchaiinter.com or something. They seem to have semen of wagyu and other breeds. But I guess you can only buy there and have to do everything else by yourself
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CLW

      Re. TMR here in Thailand concentrat is added to the feed mix ,and none is feed dueing milking time ,as feeding cows  in the cow shead can take up a lot of time ,so not feeding any concentrat will  speed up milking time considerably,farm near near me with TMR ,allso has a  heringbone  milking palour a 24-12,12 milking machins with a capacity of 24 cows ,12 cow each side of the palour ,I was they one afternoon ,and helped out the two  Bumeas  workers for 1/2 hour ,and we soon milked a high percentage  of the herd ,ok some cows where only giveing 3-4 kg of milk ,if those cows had to be feed as well it would have put on at least 50% more on milking time,and probaly another 40% in buillding costs ,in building the milking parlour ,by having to put in feed trough's. 

I said before  that in Thailand cows do not preform well on TMR,when a cow calves for the first ,up 90 days she has a light/low  Appetite it  is a natral thing ,the problem is she will lose body weight as well ,and needs feeding a high enagey diet,you need to prevent this  happening ,so your cow is in a shed with other cows,the feed is put down ,the other cows that have been calved a long time and have no problems,( or cows giving up to 20 kg of milk a day, your freshly calved cows ,in the same shed as a cow giving 6 kg a day ,beend calved a long time ,back in calf about to be dryed off )  that 6 kg a day cow ,will eat all the best feed in the mix and in no time ,and your freshly calved cow,20 kg of milk /day that needs the feed will just not have enough feed ,,she will lose weight even more quickly ,which then  will lead her to haveing an infertility problem , allreadry a big problm in Thailand ,about the bigest problem in the Thai dairy industry,and she could develop ketosis,blood sugers drop in the blood ,and she will go off her feed .

How do solve the problem, 2 ways , split the herd up , freshly calved cows ,and cows  calved up to 100 days (,cows calved after 100 days milk yeild drops,she has  gone past peak lactation, normaly  at 90 100 days),put them in a shed of they own ,and the rest of the herd in the other half of the shed ,you could mix up 2 rations ,in the feed box ,one special mix for the freshly calved cows ,and one for the rest ,a lot of hasal ,try to get the quanaties right , time-consuming mixing up two rations ,or feed one ration ,to the herd ,then feed a suplerment to your freshly calved cows.,with some high enaggy  feed say , a kg of soay bean meal ,and may  be  a kg of  ground maize meal.

As for mixing a feed not so palatable in the mixer wagon ,and hoping the cows will eat it ,well yes and no ,cows are buggers ,they will stand they and pick out all the good bit of a feed,  leaving all the not so palatable feeds ,but some cows will eat all that is put in front of them good or bad , our few cattle if I mix some not so good grass silage ,with some good silage, thay will pick out the good and leave some of the not so good silsge .

As for Pornchie .co selling semen they are down in Ratchaburi ,I got they card from the last Thai dairy show at Mortlec , and thay have advertised in Thai farming magazines, and thay do have semen from a lot of breeds.

As for there web sight ,I typed Pornchie ,and ,er, it took me to a porn website,not the type of breeding I was looking for ,but I do have a phone number for then. 

   

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With the amount of sugar cane grown here do you beef guys not feed molasses, grain and forage like sugar can tops?

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19 minutes ago, grollies said:

With the amount of sugar cane grown here do you beef guys not feed molasses, grain and forage like sugar can tops?

 

Molasses is a good feed cattle like it , but it is only 4% protein , and a low dry matter , and around here 7-8 baht/kg .for what it is, an expensive feed.

Grain I take it you mean maize, it is mixed with most concentrates ,a good high energy feed, but at about 10 baht/kg for ground maize , an expensive feed to feed on its own , some dairy farmers will feed some as a supplement to they cows.

Sugar cane tops a poor feed about 2% protein , been tryed ,it is baled first ,cows  would only eat a small amount waist the rest ,rice straw is still a bad forage feed ,but still better than sugarcane tops.

Beef cattle would have the same problem would not grow .probaly lose weight.

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we used to feed Mollasses to cows, but just as a 'medicine' , as required, to help them recover from Bloat' 

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21 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Molasses is a good feed cattle like it , but it is only 4% protein , and a low dry matter , and around here 7-8 baht/kg .for what it is, an expensive feed.

Grain I take it you mean maize, it is mixed with most concentrates ,a good high energy feed, but at about 10 baht/kg for ground maize , an expensive feed to feed on its own , some dairy farmers will feed some as a supplement to they cows.

Sugar cane tops a poor feed about 2% protein , been tryed ,it is baled first ,cows  would only eat a small amount waist the rest ,rice straw is still a bad forage feed ,but still better than sugarcane tops.

Beef cattle would have the same problem would not grow .probaly lose weight.

Thanks for the info.

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19 minutes ago, tifino said:

 

we used to feed Mollasses to cows, but just as a 'medicine' , as required, to help them recover from Bloat' 

I thought molasess was a cause of bloat. We used to restrict amounts to around 10%.

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4 minutes ago, grollies said:

I thought molasess was a cause of bloat. We used to restrict amounts to around 10%.

Too much molasses will cause an animal to scour  . 

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8 hours ago, farmerjo said:

.Back to price,looking at the australian market indicator,bulls are selling for around 70 baht/kilo to 450kg's.

So your 500kg bull would be 35,000 baht or as KS says in Thai 500kg's at your 110 baht minus half is 27,500 baht.

Unless someone has sold lately and can verify price.

A look at uk markets heavy cattle live weight, depending on where you are 70-96 baht/Kg .

 Dead weight cattle, the UK has a tiered pricing system depending on quality,about 150 baht/kg.  ,about 16 different grades for dead weight cattle, with a price structure accordingly,a bit different from Thailand's er, 1 price . 

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1 hour ago, grollies said:

With the amount of sugar cane grown here do you beef guys not feed molasses, grain and forage like sugar can tops?

I used to give a lick of molasses every morning as in the early days we would walk them in open fields.

Later on the farm it was a great training tool to tap on the drum at the end of the day to get them to return to the shed. 

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10 hours ago, Slugs11 said:

http://www.pornchaiinter.com/index1.html

 

Here is the web site for pornchaiinter, we have used them for Angus and Hereford straws. Very helpful and easy to deal with. 

Hi Slugs,

Could you give a little background info on why you would want to use straws over using Thai bulls here?

 

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Something I never understood is why most folks don't separate bulls from heifers that are too young for breeding. Where I used to be up north when the rice was harvested the cattle from the entire soi were let loose to open range feed.

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