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True and Proper Buddhist teaching

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4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

All that is fine and accurate, but it does not answer why the vast majority of the Thai people completely reject the core of Buddha's teaching, when they totally refuse to engage in contemplation, meditation, introspection, self analysis, penance, modesty, and anything more than rote and very brief prayer.

 Can the mind of a "vast majority" of any people be known?

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55 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Good point. And good habits could be referred to as discipline. Alot of people are somewhat revolted by the idea of maintaining personal discipline within their own lives.  Those same people rail against others who are not behaving as they think they should. But, to look within? To take responsibility? Heaven forbid. 

Basically, through natural selection, humans have evolved to be social beings.

In order to survive, the genes those genetically and environmentally predisposed to behave in a way which ensures their acceptance in a group, will proliferate.

The genes of those who were ostracized would diminish over time.

 

In order to fit in there are strong forces to conform.

Even those who rebel against conventions are conforming within a sub group or hieracrchy.

Their unifying stance against old ways, is a form of conforming.

 

If some rail against others who are not behaving as they think they should, then this is an illustration of what happens to those who don't conform.

 

As individuals, attempting to practice Buddhism with discipline is an uphill battle as we must overcome diversions which our modern digital age makes available to us.

 

Edited by rockyysdt

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28 minutes ago, DaveK68 said:

 Can the mind of a "vast majority" of any people be known?

Hard to say. But can you dispute this statement?

 

"totally refuse to engage in contemplation, meditation, introspection, self analysis, penance"

 

Really. How many Thais have you encountered who are able to engage in introspection, or taking responsibility for the problems they have created? It sometimes feels like the polar opposite of this is the case.

Edited by spidermike007

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9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

All that is fine and accurate, but it does not answer why the vast majority of the Thai people completely reject the core of Buddha's teaching, when they totally refuse to engage in contemplation, meditation, introspection, self analysis, penance, modesty, and anything more than rote and very brief prayer.

Well.. there are many answers to your questions.. and I certainly don't have them all.. Like people everywhere Thai people are mainly just trying to make ends meet.. like people everywhere they are caught up in Maya.. not a lot different from Christians or Muslims in that respect..  There is a slight difference though in my eyes.. Buddhism pervades Thai culture in subtle ways & some not so subtle..  I think Thais appreciate the way of the Buddha and show their understanding by supporting the Wats so that those who want to embark on a spiritual journey may do so.  Of course there is a cynical view that they only do so to 'make merit' and there are many monks that do not walk the walk.. Still.. I believe there is something deeply spiritual in their belief.  Many do go on retreats and follow their own spiritual path.  I see this in some of my Thai friends.  Some like my wife live their belief without a thought.. she is a Buddhist through and through in everything she does...but she doesn't meditate or do any of the practices that many westerners think a Buddhist should do.. she IS a Buddhist.. 

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On 1/20/2020 at 10:53 PM, Laza 45 said:

Some like my wife live their belief without a thought.. she is a Buddhist through and through in everything she does...but she doesn't meditate or do any of the practices that many westerners think a Buddhist should do.. she IS a Buddhist.. 

My understanding is that the term "Buddhist" was never coined by the Buddha and has been made up and adjusted over the years.

 

I thought that the main aim of Siddhartha Gautama's teaching was "the truth of the cause of suffering, the truth of the end of suffering, and the truth of the path that leads to the end of suffering", culminating in the state of Nirvana.

 

Further,  the ultimate benefit of adhering to the precepts (minimum of 5), is that influences and obstacles which may impede progress to ones goal are reduced.

 

Although the world would be a far better place if everyone lived their life adhering to these precepts, in themselves, they can't yield the goal Siddhartha Gautama was teaching.

 

 

Unfortunately most people who profess to be Buddhist continue to live their lives around a "religion" loosely based on some elements of what Siddhartha Gautama taught.

 

A major consequence of this is that many may reject Siddhartha Gautama's teachings by association with Buddhist practices, or more accurately, malpractices.

Edited by rockyysdt
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Who are we to say what is true Buddhism?

 

Maybe to them they are practising true Buddhism?

Just like all Christians are practising true Christianity and all Muslims practice true Islam?

 

Have you ever met a Buddhist claiming to practice fake Buddhism or a Muslim claiming to practice fake Islam or a Christian practising fake Christianity?

 

Anyway if a person is practising true Buddhism will he or she even think about whether other people are practising true or fake Buddhism?

 

😀

 

So is practising true Buddhism about being smug that I practice true Buddhism and other people do not?

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5 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them."

 

Hi Vincent.

 

The only caveat to this criterion is that one must devote ones entire life (or perhaps lives) towards conscientious practice before one can arrive at "knowing"!

 

In other words, considerable faith is needed.

 

Rocky

 

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2 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Hi Vincent.

 

The only caveat to this criterion is that one must devote ones entire life (or perhaps lives) towards conscientious practice before one can arrive at "knowing"!

 

In other words, considerable faith is needed.

 

Rocky

 

Hi Rocky,
I interpret 'knowing' in this context as 'accepting that something is true as a result of personal experiences and observations', as a starting point, rather than mere faith as a starting point.

 

The fact that the Kalamas had questioned the Buddha on these religious issues implies that they were thoughtful people. 
After the Buddha listed the criteria for rejection and acceptance, he provided some examples of things one should avoid, such as greed, hate, and delusion, and asked the Kalamas if these conditions of greed, hate and delusion were harmful or beneficial.

 

Their reply was 'harmful', of course. However, I suspect that some people might not 'know for themselves' that such conditions are harmful. For example, some people might think that greed for food, which makes them obese, is beneficial and makes them happy. Pictures of the 'Laughing Buddha' might confirm this view that greed for food is beneficial. 😀

 

Some people might think that 'hating' whatever deserves to be hated, such as poisonous snakes, could be beneficial. Others might also think that 'delusion' could be beneficial, in circumstances where the 'reality' or 'truth' is too stressful to bear.

 

The main message in the Kalama Sutta, as I see it, is to encourage thoughtful reasoning and introspection, as opposed to 'specious reasoning' and automatic acceptance of all authority.
 

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Is it possible that everything in life leads us to awaking?

 

Right decisions and mistakes are detours that all lead us to the same place?

 

No mistakes means no opportunity for learning.

 

Is it possible that there is only one perfect number and the number is 0.

 

Everything is all about being better, or achieving more, more spiritual knowledge, more advance practice in mediation, more more more.

 

More just leads to more and more.

 

Surely the answer is less is better. Less ego, less feeling of superiority, less one up man ship, less feeling of mine is the true practice of Buddhism and other people just go through the motions.

 

If people are deluded life will undelude them but it will take time. But does time really exist? Maybe there is no time and there is only now. Maybe because we are deluded we have the concept of time.

 

So if there is no time and there is only now then lets not rush people to awaking as they can take all the time in the world.

 

Then there is the uncertainty principle. We really don't know anything but we all think we know and we all think we are right but maybe we really don't know.

 

If we are really deluded that means we even have to be more careful about thinking we know and are right.

 

Maybe the only we will ever know is direct experience but the more you want to know it might make it harder because it has been said here there is no you and if this true then there is no you to know.

 

😀

 

The difficulty understanding and complications makes it very cool.  

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On 2/6/2020 at 7:53 PM, VincentRJ said:

Hi Rocky,
I interpret 'knowing' in this context as 'accepting that something is true as a result of personal experiences and observations', as a starting point, rather than mere faith as a starting point.

 

The fact that the Kalamas had questioned the Buddha on these religious issues implies that they were thoughtful people. 
After the Buddha listed the criteria for rejection and acceptance, he provided some examples of things one should avoid, such as greed, hate, and delusion, and asked the Kalamas if these conditions of greed, hate and delusion were harmful or beneficial.

 

Their reply was 'harmful', of course. However, I suspect that some people might not 'know for themselves' that such conditions are harmful. For example, some people might think that greed for food, which makes them obese, is beneficial and makes them happy. Pictures of the 'Laughing Buddha' might confirm this view that greed for food is beneficial. 😀

 

Some people might think that 'hating' whatever deserves to be hated, such as poisonous snakes, could be beneficial. Others might also think that 'delusion' could be beneficial, in circumstances where the 'reality' or 'truth' is too stressful to bear.

 

The main message in the Kalama Sutta, as I see it, is to encourage thoughtful reasoning and introspection, as opposed to 'specious reasoning' and automatic acceptance of all authority.
 

Hi Vincent.

 

When I look at Buddhism, I don't just see the journey, but I see the ultimate goal, Awakening.

 

How can one "know for themselves" Awakening?

 

Why would one embark on a very demanding lifestyle and practice if there is no "know for themselves"?

 

Further, isn't thoughtful reasoning and introspection coloured to varying degrees, due to each individuals conditioning?

Wouldn't such reasoning and introspection be tainted by each individuals degree of greed, hate, and delusion?

 

Things, such as reasoning before acting, to avoid greed, hate, and delusion, can also be achieved through ethical living.

 

Why the Buddhist path unless there is more?

 

 

Doesn't that bring us back to the need for quite a lot of faith, for without it how can one possibly embark on immense sustained effort (specific practice), in order to work towards attaining a level of "knowing for oneself"?

 

 

Edited by rockyysdt

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On 2/6/2020 at 11:17 PM, jamesc2000 said:

Is it possible that there is only one perfect number and the number is 0

'42' surely?

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10 hours ago, rockyysdt said:

Hi Vincent.

 

When I look at Buddhism, I don't just see the journey, but I see the ultimate goal, Awakening.

 

How can one "know for themselves" Awakening?

 

Why would one embark on a very demanding lifestyle and practice if there is no "know for themselves"?

 

Further, isn't thoughtful reasoning and introspection coloured to varying degrees, due to each individuals conditioning?

Wouldn't such reasoning and introspection be tainted by each individuals degree of greed, hate, and delusion?

 

Things, such as reasoning before acting, to avoid greed, hate, and delusion, can also be achieved through ethical living.

 

Why the Buddhist path unless there is more?

 

 

Doesn't that bring us back to the need for quite a lot of faith, for without it how can one possibly embark on immense sustained effort (specific practice), in order to work towards attaining a level of "knowing for oneself"?

 

 

The beauty of Buddhism is that its a science. Provable and repeatable.

 

Sure many "Buddhists" see it as a religion with the faith aspect. Like believing a Buddha amulet will protect them from a bullet.

 

Buddhism is exactly not faith based as no one says just believe I have all the truth and you will never understand the truth but just do what you are told.

 

Buddhism is all about try for yourself and if its not for you move on to something that is.

 

I can only guess that if a person is awaken the last thing they would want to be is greedy, selfish, hateful etc.

 

If you see monks womanising, getting drunk, hoarding money then its because they are not awakened.

 

I think Buddhism also talks about reincarnation so if this life you do a bit and get tired next life you can do a bit more if that's what you want.

 

I don't think time or lives is a constraint.

 

😀  

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Most people don't even have the slightest urge to want to be awaken.

 

They are too busy getting on with their lives.

 

For people that even think about it is really wonderful.

 

😀

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