Violent crime rises in Germany and is attributed to refugees

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Actually crimes committed by foreigners have twice the likelihood of being reported than those by German nationals. One third of violent crimes committed by asylum seekers are against those in the same situation. As stated above those who have the greatest chance of being vetted as genuine refugees usually do not commit crime. Germany, as is the case with other EU countries, are still in the process of completing relevant government to government negotiations to ease the deportation process of rejected asylum seekers, though some foreign countries have already agree to accepting returnees.

 

Some more detail in reports below e.g.

 

an increase of 10.4 percent in reported violent crimes  in 2015 and 2016. More than 90 percent of the increase (not of total violent crimes) was said to be attributable to migrants. 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/german-study-links-increased-crime-rate-to-migrant-arrivals/a-42006484

 

http://www.dw.com/en/more-murder-and-violence-in-germany/a-38567642

There's something wrong with you lad and your mate DM07.

[dick dasterdly]

Let's not deviate from the topic - 'violent crimes have risen, and are attributed to 'refugees'.

 

This is largely due IMO to the lax definition of 'refugees' .

[simple1]

36 minutes ago, jesimps said:

There's something wrong with you lad and your mate DM07.

I for one try to establish facts as demonstrated by the links I provided. You and your clique unequivocally support far right propaganda and often source their terminology. Accordingly IMHO you and your fellow travellers are the ones with 'something wrong', plus act contrary to the advise of our national security agencies.

[superal]

It is a problem not only for Germany , also other E.C. countries . The raping of young white teenage girls in the midlands and north of the UK by Muslim gangs has been widely reported . The unregulated immigration to create cheaper labour that will enhance the profits of businesses with complete disregard for the countries nationals welfare is to me bordering on treason . There are many no go areas in the UK and I would suspect within Europe as well . The UK reporting of crimes has been changed with the more trivial crimes omitted to give the appearance that all is under control but that is clearly not the case . There are now small pockets of home bred vigilantes springing up and I can see the day when the worm will turn . Would not have put up with it in Alf Garnetts day  

[Morch]

Do these figures pertain to terrorism charges as well? Is there a clear distinction? And if so - does the analysis regarding the differentiation between countries of origin holds?

[farcanell]

So.... the Germans accepted a bunch of refugees to solve some internal domestic issues (rising aged demographics) and the solution is turning out to be worse than the origional problem

 

australia imported cane toads from South America, to solve an issue (agricultural pests).... and the buggers are now in plague proportion, causing more problems than they solved

 

Ergo, refugees must be like cane toads... no wonder Australia is so anti refugee

[farcanell]

 forms of invasion via (im)migration have always existed, admittedly...usually in conjunction with an armed presence to protect and encourage the immigrant invasion.

 

these immigrants (to Germany) don’t need armed protection and encouragement, as that role is being assumed by the state

 

so perhaps not a moronic concept. Maybe outdated though.

 

5 hours ago, The manic said:

. Invasion via immigration is a moronic concept.

 

[DM07]

2 hours ago, superal said:

It is a problem not only for Germany , also other E.C. countries . The raping of young white teenage girls in the midlands and north of the UK by Muslim gangs has been widely reported . The unregulated immigration to create cheaper labour that will enhance the profits of businesses with complete disregard for the countries nationals welfare is to me bordering on treason . There are many no go areas in the UK and I would suspect within Europe as well . The UK reporting of crimes has been changed with the more trivial crimes omitted to give the appearance that all is under control but that is clearly not the case . There are now small pockets of home bred vigilantes springing up and I can see the day when the worm will turn . Would not have put up with it in Alf Garnetts day  

...and for all that inane dribble, you have hard facts and statistics to back it up, I assume!?

[boomerangutang]

8 hours ago, steven100 said:

Well  Well   Angela Merkel .......    what did you expect would happen    ....  ???????? 

Merkel hails from E.Germany, and her parents' generation were embroiled in WWII, ....so she has double the guilt-factor in her character.  I think that partly explains why she is so adamant about open-arms policy toward migrants.  It's a way to assuage some of the collective guilt (elder) Germans are saddled with - for the messes their parents and grandparents created in the 20th Century.

Personally, I don't think that should be a guiding principle, but I have zero influence on what the German government does.

[altcar bob]

48 minutes ago, DM07 said:

...and for all that inane dribble, you have hard facts and statistics to back it up, I assume!?

...buy a newspaper

[superal]

2 hours ago, DM07 said:

...and for all that inane dribble, you have hard facts and statistics to back it up, I assume!?

It appears you are out of touch with effects that uncontrolled immigration has . I suggest that you not partake in a discussion that you know nothing about ,  maybe a little more water with your libation  ?  Zero contribution 

[Kevbo]

9 hours ago, gintis0604 said:

The same in Sweden. Now Sweden has the highest rape rates in Europe. 

Mostly (95.6%) committed of migrants from Afghanistan and Somalia. 

The opticians keep telling "not because of migration", despite everyone knows. 

 

Can't see that ...

[CG1 Blue]

Instead of inviting the migrants into Europe, the so called developed nations could surely have set up safe havens in (or close to) the migrants homelands. It would cost less, the migrants would be closer to home, there would be less of a culture shock, and it would be easier for them to return home if things settle down in the country they came from. This would also sort the genuine refugees from the chancers / trouble makers.

 

Merkel's open door policy had disaster written all over it! How she didn't see all the fake refugees coming I'll never know...

[bumpkin]

11 hours ago, irwinfc said:

let's see how the liberals defend this "unexpected" turn of events.

 

only punishment for those criminals is repatriation. no reason for taxpayers to shoulder the costs of their incarceration in germany

but, many of these "refugees" have no ID papers,  so, which country can they be returned to, and which country would accept them with no ID ? 

 

All the "refugee" needs to do is destroy any ID and deny their country of origin.

[Scott]

25 minutes ago, bumpkin said:

but, many of these "refugees" have no ID papers,  so, which country can they be returned to, and which country would accept them with no ID ? 

 

All the "refugee" needs to do is destroy any ID and deny their country of origin.

In any refugee claim, the first thing is to establish the credibility of the claim (and that includes the claimant).   What language do they speak?   What regional dialect?   If they made a claim, then they had to be somebody worth persecuting and there's a good chance they are known to others.

 

Most people, for various reasons, don't lie about their country of origin.   I have known of a few who did, and could for various reasons, but it generally gets discovered in due course and certainly does before a person is determined to be a refugee.

 

The problem is that many countries will not take back people being forced to return.   Voluntary return is a little easier, but even then some countries just say no.

[Ron19]

Troll post removed

[simple1]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

Do these figures pertain to terrorism charges as well? Is there a clear distinction? And if so - does the analysis regarding the differentiation between countries of origin holds?

To your first question, No.

 

The report does state that genuine refugees from countries such as Syria are generally unlikely to commit crimes, The report indicates 'economic refugees' are the primary group committing crime.  as they know they will be declined refugee status so no incentive to be 'good guys'; as an assumption I would also assume very minimal support services.

 

I read, cannot relocate right now, but the 14 - 30 age group represents about 35% of the economic refugees in Germany, an age group that is more likely to commit violent crime across all sectors of society.

[simple1]

8 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Merkel hails from E.Germany, and her parents' generation were embroiled in WWII, ....so she has double the guilt-factor in her character.  I think that partly explains why she is so adamant about open-arms policy toward migrants.

Probably a lot more likely based upon her Christian faith and the German Constitution. BTW Merkel no longer supports open borders for asylum seekers. I assume you and others recall Merkel's words and underlying factors for the temporary change of policy by Merkel in 2015? An example reminder...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-opens-its-gates-berlin-says-all-syrian-asylum-seekers-are-welcome-to-remain-as-britain-is-10470062.html

[simple1]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Instead of inviting the migrants into Europe, the so called developed nations could surely have set up safe havens in (or close to) the migrants homelands. It would cost less, the migrants would be closer to home, there would be less of a culture shock, and it would be easier for them to return home if things settle down in the country they came from. This would also sort the genuine refugees from the chancers / trouble makers.

 

Merkel's open door policy had disaster written all over it! How she didn't see all the fake refugees coming I'll never know...

Correctly identifies some issues. Countries hosting hundreds of thousands, millions in the case of Turkey and Pakistan, were underfunded for years by the international community. UN had provided the warning signs for a mass exodus from countries such as Turkey as asylum seekers ran out of saving, not permitted to legally work etc; the warnings were ignored.

[the guest]

20 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Being against violent crime, rapes and terrorism is 'hateful' ? Of course they don't mention who the criminals are or where from that would be 'racist'. We all know what religion most of them will be followers of though- shhh

You mean Muslim? 

[SABloke]

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

Actually crimes committed by foreigners have twice the likelihood of being reported than those by German nationals. One third of violent crimes committed by asylum seekers are against those in the same situation. As stated above those who have the greatest chance of being vetted as genuine refugees usually do not commit crime. Germany, as is the case with other EU countries, are still in the process of completing relevant government to government negotiations to ease the deportation process of rejected asylum seekers, though some foreign countries have already agree to accepting returnees.

 

Some more detail in reports below e.g.

 

an increase of 10.4 percent in reported violent crimes  in 2015 and 2016. More than 90 percent of the increase (not of total violent crimes) was said to be attributable to migrants. 

 

http://www.dw.com/en/german-study-links-increased-crime-rate-to-migrant-arrivals/a-42006484

 

http://www.dw.com/en/more-murder-and-violence-in-germany/a-38567642

"One third of violent crimes committed by asylum seekers are against those in the same situation."

 

Which proves that violent dicks attack all kinds...no shit. The problem local people have is with the OTHER TWO THIRDS  

 

The Germans have shot themselves in the foot because getting in (illegally) is easier than being deported (legally). The result is that innocent refugees get a bad reputation. Nevertheless, just because there are innocent refugees does not mean we must ignore statistics that show an increase in crimes that are related to migrants (some claiming to be refugees as well).

[the guest]

Not just in Germany but all over Europe!

[simple1]

13 hours ago, Morch said:

Do these figures pertain to terrorism charges as well? Is there a clear distinction? And if so - does the analysis regarding the differentiation between countries of origin holds?

Just a follow up on my previous response as came across the info below that provides more detail and thoughts on causation and potential policy responses....

 

While genuine refugees from the war zones of Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan commit a smaller proportion of crimes than their share of the total asylum-seeker population, newcomers from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia are way too visible in crime statistics for their small numbers.

 

The breakdown of specific crimes committed by the asylum seekers is equally thought-provoking. In some 91 percent of murders and three-quarters of cases involving grave bodily damage, the victims are other migrants. Yet in 70 percent of robberies and 58.6 percent of rape and sexual assault cases, the victims are German. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime

[Morch]

@simple1

 

I think the bad PR related to refugee/migrant associated violence is twofold  - criminal and terrorist. The OP seems to deal exclusively with the former, whereas it may be that as far as public perceptions go the two are not as distinct. The data presented seems to indicate that violent criminal activity is more strongly associated with those arriving from areas which aren't necessarily war zones (or similar), it would be interesting (and perhaps helpful) to know if the same patterns apply with regard to terrorism related activities. Or, if one wished to go further - activities related to extremist religious beliefs. I think that while age-wise there may be similarities to criminal activity, the motivations may be somewhat different.

 

Worth noting that while the research essentially goes against wholesale labeling of groups, it does seem to support views favoring profiling. A sort of a compromise, which I think will become (for better or worse) more normative with time. 

 

[roobaa01]

1. like sweden and always evident mainly muslims committed the crimes , predominantly sexually motivation.

2. islam is the root problem as being a violent political doctrine with the sharia terror book incompatiple with western society.

3. merkel illegally let the illegal criminals in, who passed through and stayed in third secure countries .

 

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Ron19]

Off topic post removed

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

@simple1

 

I think the bad PR related to refugee/migrant associated violence is twofold  - criminal and terrorist. The OP seems to deal exclusively with the former, whereas it may be that as far as public perceptions go the two are not as distinct. The data presented seems to indicate that violent criminal activity is more strongly associated with those arriving from areas which aren't necessarily war zones (or similar), it would be interesting (and perhaps helpful) to know if the same patterns apply with regard to terrorism related activities. Or, if one wished to go further - activities related to extremist religious beliefs. I think that while age-wise there may be similarities to criminal activity, the motivations may be somewhat different.

 

Worth noting that while the research essentially goes against wholesale labeling of groups, it does seem to support views favoring profiling. A sort of a compromise, which I think will become (for better or worse) more normative with time. 

 

You may recall Europol estimated 10,000 youth 'migrants' disappeared from EU authorities radar some of whom would have ended up as criminals on the streets of Europe.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/30/fears-for-missing-child-refugees

 

I would guess a number of those undertaking criminal activity did so in their home countries & likely been trafficked.

 

To my knowledge Islamist terror attacks in Western countries originate from all nationalities mentioned in my responses. I understand the organisers / inciters are often of an older age i.e. the Salafi Jihadi ideologues.

[DM07]

15 hours ago, superal said:

It appears you are out of touch with effects that uncontrolled immigration has . I suggest that you not partake in a discussion that you know nothing about ,  maybe a little more water with your libation  ?  Zero contribution 

And it seems you are out of touch with reality, when you think that "uncontrolled immigration" is actually a thing!

[DM07]

17 hours ago, altcar bob said:

...buy a newspaper

Do you consider Breitbart or The National Enquirer a "newspaper"?

Then I pass, thank you!

And by the way: you are making claims, so you back them up!

It's not my obligation to verify your BS!

[simple1]

2 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

1. like sweden and always evident mainly muslims committed the crimes , predominantly sexually motivation. <snip>

wbr

roobaa01

With relevance to the OP, German stats don't support your argument

 

A detailed report seen by Germany’s Bild newspaper listed a total of 1,688 sex crimes committed by asylum seekers, refugees and illegal immigrants in 2015 – 3.6 per cent of the nationwide total of almost 47,000.

Of those, 458 were rapes or sexual assaults.

Refugees make up roughly 2 per cent of Germany’s population, the The Local reported, meaning the rate of sexual offences is disproportionately high.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugees-responsible-for-tiny-proportion-of-sex-crimes-in-germany-despite-far-right-claims-following-a6884166.html