Morch Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Naam said: because refugees usually arrive at airports. Arrived by flight to KL, overland into Thailand. Quote Fearing for his life, RK's family paid smugglers $2,000 to escort him on a flight to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, one of the few countries where Somali citizens do not require visas. From there, he was transported 1,500km in the back of a truck on a three-day journey up the Malay Peninsula to Bangkok - home to UNHCR's Regional Office for Southeast Asia, and a city from where he could apply for asylum. Some of the Syrian refugees I met in BKK got in by flight, some by a similar routes as above. $2000 or so could be enough for sorting visa, flight, fake return ticket and funds to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farcanell Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 4 hours ago, overherebc said: In those times there was space for them and no free handouts. Not nessesarily. the immigrating population often displaced the native population, taking their land and livelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Letseng said: Angela Merkel will welcome them. Germany invests in the "future" and cuts budgets for elderly, disabled, and folks in need of help. Visited Germany not long ago. Germans are being outnumbered in certain parts of the country. no fairy tales please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Myran said: Nice try, but this is exactly how they are treated in many places in Europe. In Sweden, for example, many elderly can only watch as their teeth rot in their mouths because they can't afford dental care. At the same time, illegal immigrants have full access to dental care for about 100 baht. more fairy tales! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, farcanell said: Not nessesarily. the immigrating population often displaced the native population, taking their land and livelihood. True. But that's talking about times long ago when nations were expanding their power and lands and warfare was a way of life. They invaded other countries to bring back food valuables etc to enrich their own patch. What's happening now is a whole different ball game. Now it's a situation where they claim asylum for their own individual gain. No thought of their own land or country, just self enrichment. Once they are out of it they don't even think about their homeland and don't want to contribute to the country they have illegally entered under their claim as refugees. If I knew the answer to the problem I would broadcast it loud and clear, but, I don't. I know it's a cop out but I'm happy I don't have any kids to grow up in a world that is so totally screwed up by my generation and our parents generation. Really wish I knew the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lawrence Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 11 hours ago, PJPom said: I hesitate to say this but the Somali and Ethiopian problems are the result of well intentioned Western aid. The popular “feed the World” campaign certainly saved a lot of lives but also raised a generation that was severely damaged physically and mentally. This produced a generation that knew no love or stability and the current problems in Australia and many other parts of the world reflects this. It seems that their whole society lives with and accepts violence as being part of their upbringing and they carry it with them wherever they go. Maybe we in the better off countries should stop interfering, but can we live with no conscience. Are you sure? Nothing to do with trade routes, oil, minerals, people trafficking, foreign powers trying to influence the Governments etc. The Turks, Portuguese, French, English and Italy have all had goes of running colonial Somalia; they have all given forms of Government and with that came forms of punishment. Somalia has also been run by Sharia Law, together with the law of the gun. Somalia has untapped reserves of numerous natural resources, including uranium, iron ore, tin, gypsum, bauxite, copper, salt and natural gas. Due to its proximity to the oil-rich Gulf Arab states such as Saudi Arabia and Yemen, the nation is also believed to contain substantial unexploited reserves of oil. There is a lot of history here and hard to snapshot it over 30 years. This won't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELVIS123456 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 What is clear to me based on this issue, and so many related issues, is that more and more people are finally seeing 'the right' and realising that the 'right' are right. Liberals who support all refugees with no limit and demand Govts follow UN mandated support programs, at the expense of the population of the destination country, are more and more being questioned and challenged. 30 years ago anyone who said that Refugees were mainly illegal immigrants taking advantage of UN mandated support programs in western countries, were dismissed as racist and bigots. And anyone who said that refugees with the 'wrong' religious values and opposing morals values to the destination population should not be allowed to stay, were drowned out with claims of Nazi and Fascist (remember Enoch Powell?). But starting in Australia in the late 90s when the Govt refused to accept the 'boat people' as they were all single males looking for freebies and social welfare, things began to change. Then the 'invasion' of Europe that Merkel/EU supported really made the people look again and realise that it is all a big scam. Interviews with 'refugees' who stated that they wanted to get to Germany or Sweden because they offered better welfare support than Italy, and them knowing exactly how much that was worth, finally convinced the majority that they are not refugees like after WW2. Trump was elected because of this rubbish whereby certain people can take advantage of western countries generosity that has been mandated and enforced through UN and EU regulations with nil consideration of the impact on the existing populations. Australia has been taken to Court for refusing to accept 'refugees' and the only way to 'get around' the issue was to stop them before they reached Australian soil and imprison them, so they couldn't spend years and years appealing and demanding access and welfare support. But even then the International Tribunal ruled this illegal and is trying to force Australia to accept all refugees, irrespective of whether they are genuine or not - because UN laws mandate that they must. Brexit and Trump are but the first of many countries taking action to take back their country from those that would give it away in the name of 'human values'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nausea Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Most refugees are looking for a better life, and not fleeing torture, death, and inhumane treatment, well knock me down with a feather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gintis0604 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 +20 is cold? Why they "flee" to Sweden then, with -20 degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 40 minutes ago, gintis0604 said: +20 is cold? Why they "flee" to Sweden then, with -20 degrees? Cash, social services, medical care etc etc but especially cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 9:32 AM, PJPom said: I hesitate to say this but the Somali and Ethiopian problems are the result of well intentioned Western aid. The popular “feed the World” campaign certainly saved a lot of lives but also raised a generation that was severely damaged physically and mentally. This produced a generation that knew no love or stability and the current problems in Australia and many other parts of the world reflects this. It seems that their whole society lives with and accepts violence as being part of their upbringing and they carry it with them wherever they go. Maybe we in the better off countries should stop interfering, but can we live with no conscience. How has Ethiopia's meddling politics that have resulted in an endless civil war in Somalia been caused by aid? And no, the whole of Somalian society does not accept violence, hence the large number of refugees escaping the violence, and if you think they take the violence with them then you do not know them, they care about their future, they educate their children very well, in fact their children are now the highest achieving in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, nausea said: Most refugees are looking for a better life, and not fleeing torture, death, and inhumane treatment, well knock me down with a feather. The application process is actually rather strict, they only become refugees once they have passed that, more of them fail and as a result are sent back, but of those who gain refugee status all of them are fleeing something rather serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said: What is clear to me based on this issue, and so many related issues, is that more and more people are finally seeing 'the right' and realising that the 'right' are right. Liberals who support all refugees with no limit and demand Govts follow UN mandated support programs, at the expense of the population of the destination country, are more and more being questioned and challenged. 30 years ago anyone who said that Refugees were mainly illegal immigrants taking advantage of UN mandated support programs in western countries, were dismissed as racist and bigots. And anyone who said that refugees with the 'wrong' religious values and opposing morals values to the destination population should not be allowed to stay, were drowned out with claims of Nazi and Fascist (remember Enoch Powell?). But starting in Australia in the late 90s when the Govt refused to accept the 'boat people' as they were all single males looking for freebies and social welfare, things began to change. Then the 'invasion' of Europe that Merkel/EU supported really made the people look again and realise that it is all a big scam. Interviews with 'refugees' who stated that they wanted to get to Germany or Sweden because they offered better welfare support than Italy, and them knowing exactly how much that was worth, finally convinced the majority that they are not refugees like after WW2. Trump was elected because of this rubbish whereby certain people can take advantage of western countries generosity that has been mandated and enforced through UN and EU regulations with nil consideration of the impact on the existing populations. Australia has been taken to Court for refusing to accept 'refugees' and the only way to 'get around' the issue was to stop them before they reached Australian soil and imprison them, so they couldn't spend years and years appealing and demanding access and welfare support. But even then the International Tribunal ruled this illegal and is trying to force Australia to accept all refugees, irrespective of whether they are genuine or not - because UN laws mandate that they must. Brexit and Trump are but the first of many countries taking action to take back their country from those that would give it away in the name of 'human values'. Good post - apart from the seriously annoying "right" and "liberal" labels. I'd also disagree with the premise that during Enoch Powell's 'time', there were many refugees about - they were mostly legal migrants? And there were one hell of a lot of genuine racists around at that time! Back on topic, this thread is about illegal immigrants as far as I can make out - not genuine, legal refugees? But I could be wrong as admittedly I know zero about Thailand's policy on refugees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: The application process is actually rather strict, they only become refugees once they have passed that, more of them fail and as a result are sent back, but of those who gain refugee status all of them are fleeing something rather serious. "more of them fail and as a result are sent back" I doubt the 'most are sent back' part (re. those arriving and claiming refugee status in Europe) is true, but perhaps you are referring to those claiming refugee status in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said: "more of them fail and as a result are sent back" I doubt the 'most are sent back' part (re. those arriving and claiming refugee status in Europe) is true, but perhaps you are referring to those claiming refugee status in Thailand? In the UK, 60% of asylum applications fail, so last year that was about 15,000 refusals, there were only 6,788 deportations, of course not all of those who seek asylum get deported, many start appeals processes meaning their deportation is delayed and sometimes it takes years, and then there are those who are affluent and who are permitted to stay on other visas, and then those who simply disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: In the UK, 60% of asylum applications fail, so last year that was about 15,000 refusals, there were only 6,788 deportations, of course not all of those who seek asylum get deported, many start appeals processes meaning their deportation is delayed and sometimes it takes years, and then there are those who are affluent and who are permitted to stay on other visas, and then those who simply disappear. "Simply disappear" how? Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Morch said: "Simply disappear" how? Where? They disappear off the radar of the authorities, presumably they find a place to live and a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sead Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Should saved those ticket money. Refugees my as... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Wow, nothing like a thread on persecuted minorities in a foreign land to bring out all the racists, xenophobes, islamophobes and petty minded bigots from the closet. I guess this is a reflection of the rise of the UKIP-Brexit-Le Pen-Trump phenomenon, and is a sad indictment on the lack of open-mindedness and empathetic human values that festers in certain social sub-groups in many Western nations these days. Broken Britain and utterly trashed and forlorn middle America are two of the most desperate examples of the places that spawn such mindsets, but other countries are not far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxboy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 21/01/2018 at 8:00 AM, Sir Dude said: Controversial to say it, but they should stay in their own countries and sort them out even if it means sacrificing yourself. Many countries have civil wars and countless have lost their lives to make these great safe countries that every hard luck case thinks they are entitled to enter and leech off. Sure, women and children should be entertained till they can be safely returned but military aged fit men should stop being cowards and save their countries instead of just running away like pussies. Shameful. Unfortunately you will get lambasted for making a statement like this, but what you say is true. The people who migrate away from problem areas are usually the fittest, the smartest, the most dissatisfied and yet the best equipped to stay and make changes to their own country. What they are actually doing is abandoning their countrymen, the weaker, the poorer the less healthy ones who aren't equipped to flee their impoverished nations. So the problems are actually intensified for those left behind. Are we really supposed to encourage this? It doesn't help to solve the fundamental problems, that can only be solved from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letseng Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 21 hours ago, foxboy said: Unfortunately you will get lambasted for making a statement like this, but what you say is true. The people who migrate away from problem areas are usually the fittest, the smartest, the most dissatisfied and yet the best equipped to stay and make changes to their own country. What they are actually doing is abandoning their countrymen, the weaker, the poorer the less healthy ones who aren't equipped to flee their impoverished nations. So the problems are actually intensified for those left behind. Are we really supposed to encourage this? It doesn't help to solve the fundamental problems, that can only be solved from within. Africans and others were outraged about Trump's statement "s...hole countries". If Trump is wrong and the countries are the opposite i.e. paradise, why do Somalis, Nigerians etc. run away from paradise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon789561 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 4:48 AM, Kieran00001 said: How has Ethiopia's meddling politics that have resulted in an endless civil war in Somalia been caused by aid? And no, the whole of Somalian society does not accept violence, hence the large number of refugees escaping the violence, and if you think they take the violence with them then you do not know them, they care about their future, they educate their children very well, in fact their children are now the highest achieving in the UK. interesting because the small bit of research i just did came up with something completely different so please do share a link or 2. you see a lot of somalians moved to the part of London my mother lives in years ago and whenever i go back i have noticed that now the area is plagued by teenage gangs of somali origin into petty street crime and i generally go by what i see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELVIS123456 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 6:09 PM, plachon said: Wow, nothing like a thread on persecuted minorities in a foreign land to bring out all the racists, xenophobes, islamophobes and petty minded bigots from the closet. I guess this is a reflection of the rise of the UKIP-Brexit-Le Pen-Trump phenomenon, and is a sad indictment on the lack of open-mindedness and empathetic human values that festers in certain social sub-groups in many Western nations these days. Broken Britain and utterly trashed and forlorn middle America are two of the most desperate examples of the places that spawn such mindsets, but other countries are not far behind. like most lefties you cant see reality. get out and take off the rose glasses and you might see it. at least read your own 'signature' words - that would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 "RK's family paid smugglers $2,000 to escort him on a flight to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, one of the few countries where Somali citizens do not require visas." So why come to Thailand illegally, when you can legally stay in Malaysia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Andersen Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I just don't care I just happy their not come to my country so meny problem with migrants Meaby I am racist but go home and fix your country not sit and benefits of other people and country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVENKEEL Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 12:35 AM, Bluespunk said: Your post is the most shameful thing I've read today. Unless it was sarcasm, which I am hoping it is. Nah, I read it as the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said: Nah, I read it as the truth. Well done, you take second place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letseng Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said: I just don't care I just happy their not come to my country so meny problem with migrants Meaby I am racist but go home and fix your country not sit and benefits of other people and country I agree with you. Most of Europe is awash with migrants who pretend to be refugees. What do the Somalis live on in Bkk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelomsak Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Letseng said: I agree with you. Most of Europe is awash with migrants who pretend to be refugees. What do the Somalis live on in Bkk? So true but many people live in denial about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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