Bangkok's Somali refugees persecuted and living in fear

[lovelomsak]

On 1/22/2018 at 7:14 PM, foxboy said:

Unfortunately you will get lambasted for making a statement like this, but what you say is true. The people who migrate away from problem areas are usually the fittest, the smartest, the most dissatisfied and yet the best equipped to stay and make changes to their own country. What they are actually doing is abandoning their countrymen, the weaker, the poorer the less healthy ones who aren't equipped to flee their impoverished nations. So the problems are actually intensified for those left behind. Are we really supposed to encourage this? It doesn't help to solve the fundamental problems, that can only be solved from within.

Yes no one thinks about who all these young men leave behind and how they live. I am glad you brought this to this thread thank you.

[Naam]

2 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

On 1/22/2018 at 7:14 PM, foxboy said:

Unfortunately you will get lambasted for making a statement like this, but what you say is true. The people who migrate away from problem areas are usually the fittest, the smartest, the most dissatisfied and yet the best equipped to stay and make changes to their own country. What they are actually doing is abandoning their countrymen, the weaker, the poorer the less healthy ones who aren't equipped to flee their impoverished nations. So the problems are actually intensified for those left behind. Are we really supposed to encourage this? It doesn't help to solve the fundamental problems, that can only be solved from within.

Yes no one thinks about who all these young men leave behind and how they live. I am glad you brought this to this thread thank you.

what a relief! thanks to both of you. now i can sleep well again. yawnnn...

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

So true but many people live in denial about it.

Not true at all really. 

 

Having said that, better denial than prejudice. 

[oldhippy]

On 21/01/2018 at 11:12 AM, Destiny1990 said:

Ship them to Europe we will give them free houses, free monthly 900 euros a month till rest of their life, free passport, free medical, free lawyers and lateron they may bring over all their family members.. because they are refugees so that what we need to do...Read they above if anyone still wonder why they keep coming..

Meanwhile there no money for our elderly but who cares.

Surely the NHS will be prepared to spare some of it's extra 350 million a week to te elderly?

 

[metisdead]

An off topic trolling post has been removed. 

[Kieran00001]

3 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Yes no one thinks about who all these young men leave behind and how they live. I am glad you brought this to this thread thank you.

 

If you knew anything about what these people flee from and what they actually do do for those left behind you would not have been glad that nonsense was posted.  Men escaping Eritrea are escaping forced life long unpaid conscription, they are escaping slavery, staying and being enslaved in the army does not help those left behind at all, in fact it legitimizes what is happening, the more who get out the better, eventually they will have to stop doing it.  And immigrants do actually tend to send money home and help out in that way, and when the average wage is less than $100 per month it does not take much earnings in a Western country to make a real difference back home.

[oldhippy]

Here's an eye opener.

When posters comment on refugees, they always talk about the small number of refugees close to home (Europe, UK, US, Thailand).

Yet their numbers are insignificant.

Here are the latest numbers per host - country (and other info):

http://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html

 

[anon789561]

Just now, oldhippy said:

Here's an eye opener.

When posters comment on refugees, they always talk about the small number of refugees close to home (Europe, UK, US, Thailand).

Yet their numbers are insignificant.

Here are the latest numbers per host - country (and other info):

http://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html

 

haven't read that link yet old hippy but will have a look. theres loads up in bkk. loads. i think more of a stop off. but i've  chatted with quite a few from syria etc

[oldhippy]

More:

What countries take in the most refugees?

Jordan, which has taken in more than 2.7 million people, was named as the top refugee hosting country, followed by Turkey, over 2.5 million; Pakistan, 1.6 million; and Lebanon, more than 1.5 million. The other top six nations were Iran, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Democratic Republic of Congo and Chad.

And:

Which Countries Host The Most Refugees Relative To Size And Wealth

UNHCR compares a country’s refugee population to its overall population and to its global domestic product (GDP). The goal is to evaluate the contributions of host countries.

Refugees per 1,000 inhabitants

050100150200173895035272119191816

• Lebanon
• Jordan
• Nauru
• Turkey
• Chad
• South Sudan
• Sweden
• Djibouti
• Malta
• Mauritania

Refugees per $1 million in GDP

050100150200100372020191918181511

• South Sudan
• Chad
• Uganda
• Lebanon
• Burundi
• Niger
• Rwanda
• Jordan
• Mauritania
• Cameroon

Notes

The graphic does not include data for Palestinian refugees, who for historical reasons are under the jurisdiction of UNRWA.

Source: United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees Mid-Year Trends 2016

 

Copy paste is not to clear, you can find better layout at

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/03/27/518217052/chart-where-the-worlds-refugees-are

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

More:

What countries take in the most refugees?

Jordan, which has taken in more than 2.7 million people, was named as the top refugee hosting country, followed by Turkey, over 2.5 million; Pakistan, 1.6 million; and Lebanon, more than 1.5 million. The other top six nations were Iran, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Democratic Republic of Congo and Chad.

And:

Which Countries Host The Most Refugees Relative To Size And Wealth

UNHCR compares a country’s refugee population to its overall population and to its global domestic product (GDP). The goal is to evaluate the contributions of host countries.

Refugees per 1,000 inhabitants

050100150200173895035272119191816

• Lebanon
• Jordan
• Nauru
• Turkey
• Chad
• South Sudan
• Sweden
• Djibouti
• Malta
• Mauritania

Refugees per $1 million in GDP

050100150200100372020191918181511

• South Sudan
• Chad
• Uganda
• Lebanon
• Burundi
• Niger
• Rwanda
• Jordan
• Mauritania
• Cameroon

Notes

The graphic does not include data for Palestinian refugees, who for historical reasons are under the jurisdiction of UNRWA.

Source: United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees Mid-Year Trends 2016

 

Copy paste is not to clear, you can find better layout at

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/03/27/518217052/chart-where-the-worlds-refugees-are

This is the legal count right what countries have the most refugees with illegal in the mix. I bet none of these countries would make that list.

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

This is the legal count right what countries have the most refugees with illegal in the mix. I bet none of these countries would make that list.

 

Illegal refugees?  What?

[oldhippy]

8 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

This is the legal count right what countries have the most refugees with illegal in the mix. I bet none of these countries would make that list.

 

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Illegal refugees?  What?

I am sure lovelomsak will clarify his post, as it is not really clear to me what he means - I am not a native English speaker.

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

 

I am sure lovelomsak will clarify his post, as it is not really clear to me what he means - I am not a native English speaker.

Perhaps My english leaves something to be desired also. Sorry about that

  What was I tried to ask or point out was that the count of refugees in the countries done by unhcr  was a count of legal refugees. I feel if the count included illegal refugees or illegal  immigrants( that say they are refugees ))many of these countries would not even make the list,in the top 20

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Perhaps My english leaves something to be desired also. Sorry about that

  What was I tried to ask or point out was that the count of refugees in the countries done by unhcr  was a count of legal refugees. I feel if the count included illegal refugees or illegal  immigrants( that say they are refugees ))many of these countries would not even make the list,in the top 20

You may have a point about recognised / not recognised refugees.

 

But still, if you include the "illegal" refugees / immigrants into the UK or German numbers, it would be impossible to come anywhere near the numbers of some much poorer countries: Turkey 2.000.000 / Pakistan 1.500.000 / Iran 1.000.000 etc.

 

The refugee crisis burdons the poor countries far more than us. That does not mean there is no urgent problem in our countries, but it certainly puts things in a perspective.

 

 

[Odysseus123]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Here's an eye opener.

When posters comment on refugees, they always talk about the small number of refugees close to home (Europe, UK, US, Thailand).

Yet their numbers are insignificant.

Here are the latest numbers per host - country (and other info):

http://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html

 

OldHippy,

 

Very interesting, indeed.

 

Thanks for that.

[Odysseus123]

If only the Amerindians had done the right thing and arrested the boring puritans on the Mayflower (fleeing from religious persecution) and sent them  back to East Anglia again...

 

 A lot of banal hot air would have been avoided....

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.  Please remember this topic is about:  

 

Bangkok's Somali refugees persecuted and living in fear

[foxboy]

On 09/02/2018 at 6:29 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 

If you knew anything about what these people flee from and what they actually do do for those left behind you would not have been glad that nonsense was posted.  Men escaping Eritrea are escaping forced life long unpaid conscription, they are escaping slavery, staying and being enslaved in the army does not help those left behind at all, in fact it legitimizes what is happening, the more who get out the better, eventually they will have to stop doing it.  And immigrants do actually tend to send money home and help out in that way, and when the average wage is less than $100 per month it does not take much earnings in a Western country to make a real difference back home.

Try to keep on topic, this is about Somalia not Eritrea

[Kieran00001]

17 hours ago, foxboy said:

Try to keep on topic, this is about Somalia not Eritrea

 

I took it as being about the whole OP, not just the headline.  

"Bangkok is home to a growing community of approximately 4,500 refugees and 2,000 asylum-seekers from more than 50 countries."

 

 

 

[foxboy]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I took it as being about the whole OP, not just the headline.  

"Bangkok is home to a growing community of approximately 4,500 refugees and 2,000 asylum-seekers from more than 50 countries."

 

 

 

Not according to the Moderators...

 

metisdead - "Off topic posts and replies have been removed.  Please remember this topic is about:  

 

Bangkok's Somali refugees persecuted and living in fear"

 

you  can use specific country examples to fit your narrative, and yes I agree in some cases that the only hope you may have to escape persecution is to flee and seek refuge, but I honestly believe that this doesn't offer a long term solution. Change can only come from within, by people who know, understand and feel passionate about their homeland. For you to suggest that this is 'nonsense' shows your lack of respect for opinions that differ from yours. It is not nonsense, it is my opinion which I am entitled to

[Naam]

1 minute ago, foxboy said:

It is not nonsense, it is my opinion which I am entitled to

which differs from the opinion of others.

[foxboy]

10 minutes ago, Naam said:

which differs from the opinion of others.

and is shared by others..

 

and your point is?

[dick dasterdly]

The OP seems to be about illegal immigrants, rather than refugees?

 

"They kicked my door down and took my family when I was away," RK says, referring to an immigration raid at his home three months earlier, as part of a crackdown on undocumented migrants."

 

?

[Kieran00001]

On 11/02/2018 at 11:55 AM, foxboy said:

Not according to the Moderators...

 

metisdead - "Off topic posts and replies have been removed.  Please remember this topic is about:  

 

Bangkok's Somali refugees persecuted and living in fear"

 

you  can use specific country examples to fit your narrative, and yes I agree in some cases that the only hope you may have to escape persecution is to flee and seek refuge, but I honestly believe that this doesn't offer a long term solution. Change can only come from within, by people who know, understand and feel passionate about their homeland. For you to suggest that this is 'nonsense' shows your lack of respect for opinions that differ from yours. It is not nonsense, it is my opinion which I am entitled to

 

It would be nonsense to assume that someone can always offer more help by staying than by leaving, it just isn't true, the majority of people are powerless in their broken societies but by leaving they can raise awareness of the issue in their home and they can send money back, they can offer genuine help.  You imagine that the best way would be to stay and change things from within, but what you don't offer is any suggestion as to how that would occur, just an assertion that it's the best way.

[foxboy]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

It would be nonsense to assume that someone can always offer more help by staying than by leaving, it just isn't true, the majority of people are powerless in their broken societies but by leaving they can raise awareness of the issue in their home and they can send money back, they can offer genuine help.  You imagine that the best way would be to stay and change things from within, but what you don't offer is any suggestion as to how that would occur, just an assertion that it's the best way.

Most Somalis who have come to my country do not work. They are among the poorest, worst-educated and least-employed in Britain. Yet you imagine they will be able to offer enough financial assistance to their families back home to "offer genuine help" ?? How exactly?? maybe you can offer a "suggestion as to how that would occur" 

[Kieran00001]

On 14/02/2018 at 5:09 PM, foxboy said:

Most Somalis who have come to my country do not work. They are among the poorest, worst-educated and least-employed in Britain. Yet you imagine they will be able to offer enough financial assistance to their families back home to "offer genuine help" ?? How exactly?? maybe you can offer a "suggestion as to how that would occur" 

 

Considering that the Somalian refugees are escaping slavery how exactly do you imagine they could offer more help by staying and being enslaved?  And for your information, many Somalians do work and do send money home.  Yes, they are among the least employed, that is the result of not being afforded high school education, but many still succeed, in Bristol for example there are loads who drive taxis, I am sure you can imagine how a taxi driver in the UK could afford to offer genuine help to their family back home, who in Somalia live on an average of £20 a month.

[foxboy]

52 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Considering that the Somalian refugees are escaping slavery how exactly do you imagine they could offer more help by staying and being enslaved?  And for your information, many Somalians do work and do send money home.  Yes, they are among the least employed, that is the result of not being afforded high school education, but many still succeed, in Bristol for example there are loads who drive taxis, I am sure you can imagine how a taxi driver in the UK could afford to offer genuine help to their family back home, who in Somalia live on an average of £20 a month.

let's bring them all to the UK then, problem solved 

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, foxboy said:

let's bring them all to the UK then, problem solved 

 

Thats not what I was saying, I was just arguing against the claim that their families would be better off if they stayed, which is simply not true, many make a huge difference for their families by leaving and finding work in a new country, that is just a fact, but those claiming otherwise are not interested in facts that do not suit their agenda, they are just looking for any way they can find to disparage refugees.  You have to wonder how many of them have families back home who could really use some inheritance one day but grandad spent it all on bar girls, perhaps it actually eats them up inside and that is why they lash out at those who selflessly trek across the world only to send their money back home.

[foxboy]

8 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Thats not what I was saying, I was just arguing against the claim that their families would be better off if they stayed, which is simply not true, many make a huge difference for their families by leaving and finding work in a new country, that is just a fact, but those claiming otherwise are not interested in facts that do not suit their agenda, they are just looking for any way they can find to disparage refugees.  You have to wonder how many of them have families back home who could really use some inheritance one day but grandad spent it all on bar girls, perhaps it actually eats them up inside and that is why they lash out at those who selflessly trek across the world only to send their money back home.

Most Somalis who come to the UK do not work, they are on benefits. They come from a lawless country run by violence and anarchy. They are no doubt traumatised by their experiences of war, but that just hardens them and gives them a lack compassion and empathy for others. They make perfect gang members, and that's what they so often do.. group up and create mini crime waves wherever they go. Their comfort with violence and intimidation serves them well and they are taking over the drug trade in many cities, and are also now moving across seaside towns on the South coast. They also do not see rape as a crime and are making unpleasant headlines in that area too.

Yes, there are good honest citizens amongst the Somali refugees, but there are too many bad ones to ignore this associated issue. Other black communities don't want anything to do with them and see them as 'bad news'. 

I personally do not think they should not come to uk as refugees they should go to a neighbouring country with similar values, culture and religion, with a view that they could hopefully go back home when it is safe to do so. Your lovely Liberal model means we get to put extra strains on our welfare system and police resources, so that your taxi driver pal can send £50 a week back to his extended family. Brilliant.

 

As for the second part of your reply, making reference to someone's grandad spending all his money on bar girls, I haven't got a clue what you are talking about ??

 

[Fish Head Soup]

A few facts;

 

Thailand is not a signatory to the 1951 Convention on refugees, or its 1967 Protocol.

 

In Thailand, refugees are considered ‘displaced persons’ — not ‘refugees.’ By not being party to the 1951 Convention, the government is able to avoid using the word ‘refugee,’ and instead can use terms like ‘displaced persons’ or ‘illegal migrants.’

 

When a population is labeled as refugees, there are certain international rights that are guaranteed as well as necessary accommodations that must be met. By avoiding the word ‘refugee’ the Thai government is able to circumnavigate the required resources and services that international law mandates for refugees.

 

When refugees are not registered in United Nations High Commissioner for Refugee camps, they are considered to be illegal migrants by Thai authorities.