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Bangkok Air Pollution

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7 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

Serious question, do you guys ever have the thought that thinking or worrying about this could actually do way more harm to you in the long run than if you never thought of it for even a second? I am not trying to minimize the effects but I find questions like this very interesting. 

" ...do you guys ever have the thought that thinking or worrying about this could actually do way more harm to you in the long run than if you never thought of it for even a second?"

 

No.

 

"... I find questions like this very interesting."

 

The only reason to ask a foolish question like that is because you are searching for an excuse to put your head in the sand and not deal with reality.

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Man I woke up this morning hacking. Looked out side and smoke everywhere... I am in the country, burning off the rice fields is a major issue for me. 

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Air In BKK is pretty good this morning.  AQI is about 85.  This is much better than last week.

But today good air is because we have a nice breeze blowing from the South.  This is Ocean breeze is very different from last week.  All last week in BKK we had a stagnant air inversion (including "good days" school shutdown with Governor inspection order).

It will be interesting to see what happens next. We should anticipate that garbage will not pile up forever.  Good air quality in Thailand is long term issue that requires restructuring (regulations and inspections, Thai awareness and discipline reduce-reuse-recycle + sorting bins, Scrubbers on Waste-To-Energy chimneys, no importing of garbage (like China), Cambodian hydro-power not High-sulphur Australian coal in local power plants, etc.  Pollution Control data says burning is over 60% of AQI issue.

The other 40% is the stuff we all see.  High-sulphur Diesel busses belching, construction, cars & motorbikes, etc.

I have not seen data about the contribution of pollution from neighbors.  Think East wind from Cambodia, NE wind from China, South wind from Indonesia.  Maybe somebody here knows more.  Additions/Improvements/corrections always welcome.

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Best air for a month here in Pattaya , numbers down to 30++ . 

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12 minutes ago, balo said:

Best air for a month here in Pattaya , numbers down to 30++ . 

The farmer-arsonists in Thailand/Cambodia so far seemed to have taken the morning off.

 

NASA FIRMS "Today" reading at 1139 (3 hours, 39 minutes after their 0800 (Bangkok time) daily fire display reset (PartyYeah! is about 200 km west of the Cambodian border - SEA map image, below):

 

FIRMS_02_04_2019_1139.jpeg.701b3dab0c1f1a4b9884f585359c426e.jpeg

 

SEA_Map_of_Countries.jpeg.0f4591dc44fcfb3b830a5835bffa4672.jpeg

Edited by MaxYakov

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6 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

I have done many of these tests.  It is important to know the methods.  I have a retail AQI meter not $2000 meter. So exact numbers are difficult.  Humidity is the biggest challenge.  Moisture in the air reads like PM2.5.  

 

Good point. There's a recent study on the Plantower sensor that the Sndway and most of the other budget air quality monitors use that looks into that and concludes:

 

'This study shows that it is important to understand that
the results provided by low-cost particle sensors, such as the
PMS1003, cannot be used to ascertain if air quality standards
are being met.'

 

On the other hand, the Sndway and similar devices come with a humidity sensor built in so the final pm2.5 reading does take into account humidity. I think expecting a $40 sensor to be equivalent to a $2000 monitoring station is wishful thinking though.

 

Download the study here:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.atmos-meas-tech.net/11/4883/2018/amt-11-4883-2018.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi8qeaEvqHgAhVELFAKHbdaAOgQFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3CjZwJn5whW3R087lJo12-&cshid=1549262931914

Edited by edwardandtubs

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does anyone know where can i buy in bangkok a decent air purifier? tried hatari and xiaomi on lazada but all sold out. I don't know if i get one by going to some offline store like MBK or somewhere. KIndly advice! thanks

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does anyone know where can i buy in bangkok a decent air purifier? tried hatari and xiaomi on lazada but all sold out. I don't know if i get one by going to some offline store like MBK or somewhere. KIndly advice! thanks

 

I tried the 2 Xiaomi Mi stores in MBK and they said sometime in March. Don’t recall seeing any others but someone on Facebook claims to have some, I’ll try find the details.

 

Pollution in Bangkok is very bad lately. Well good news! We sell purifiers at my dad's store. If you want one, please lemme know. It's sold out so quickly! Bad pollution like this I think we might need one. Special price just for you!!!!!! Lower than the ones at the mall!! Call k. Ning 098-656-2568 or Line ID : tanadya

 

Probably sold out though

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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On 2/3/2019 at 5:06 PM, DaveInSukhumvit said:



Maybe you know that China stopped importing garbage January 2018.  Nearby countries picked up the slack.  Plastics are used as fuel to burn unsorted waste.  There was an article in paper last year about a container coming in to Thailand with garbage from 30 different countries.

The Austrian newspaper "Die Presse" ran an article about this yesterday. 

China prohibited importing garbage,  South East Asia - especially Thailand and Malaysia - picked up the slack. 

Trash is imported at Laem Chabang, that explains,  why the air in Pattaya nowadays is just as bad as in Bangkok (and this is a recent phenomenon in Pattaya,  just as it is recent in Bangkok)

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Have anyone figured out how to permanently change the SNDWAY's white/red screen set-point?

 

Mine defaults back to 115 micro g/m3 each time it goes to hibernation mode.

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23 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

On the other hand, the Sndway and similar devices come with a humidity sensor built in so the final pm2.5 reading does take into account humidity. I think expecting a $40 sensor to be equivalent to a $2000 monitoring station is wishful thinking though.

Thanks Khun Tubs.  I know the Sndway unit has humidity measurement.  Do we know if Sndway uses includes estimating algorithm to improve accuracy of AQI?  I don't own Sndway.

Thanks for the pdf study.  I think I have seen this one before but I re-read and saved it this time.

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2 hours ago, DaveInSukhumvit said:

Thanks Khun Tubs.  I know the Sndway unit has humidity measurement.  Do we know if Sndway uses includes estimating algorithm to improve accuracy of AQI?  I don't own Sndway.

Thanks for the pdf study.  I think I have seen this one before but I re-read and saved it this time.

 

It's difficult to improve accuracy just by using an algorithm. As the study says:

 

'An obvious question that arises from this work is whether
it is possible to derive a correction factor for the particle
number and mass concentrations reported by the low-cost
sensors in the presence of high humidity and fog. Our re-
sults show that, once the deliquescence point is exceeded,
the particle number and mass concentrations begin to in-
crease and are not directly related to the absolute value of
the relative humidity.'

 

I've found my Sndway reports higher pm2.5 than the local monitoring station which is only a kilometre away and when I put it near a boiling kettle there's a big spike in the pm2.5 reading so clearly the humidity in Bangkok is giving us readings that are inaccurate.

Edited by edwardandtubs

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On 2/4/2019 at 7:56 AM, JimmyJ said:

" ...do you guys ever have the thought that thinking or worrying about this could actually do way more harm to you in the long run than if you never thought of it for even a second?"

 

No.

 

"... I find questions like this very interesting."

 

The only reason to ask a foolish question like that is because you are searching for an excuse to put your head in the sand and not deal with reality.

You don't think psychology or the health of your brain can have a greater deleterious effect than some particles in your lungs? That is out of the realm of being possible? 

 

Look, I am not saying who is right, but it is definitely a legit question. 

 

I will at least start you off on a path to a more open mind: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-risky-is-it-really/201112/time-worry-about-worrying-too-much

Edited by utalkin2me

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7 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

 

It's difficult to improve accuracy just by using an algorithm. As the study says:

 

'An obvious question that arises from this work is whether
it is possible to derive a correction factor for the particle
number and mass concentrations reported by the low-cost
sensors in the presence of high humidity and fog. Our re-
sults show that, once the deliquescence point is exceeded,
the particle number and mass concentrations begin to in-
crease and are not directly related to the absolute value of
the relative humidity.'

 

I've found my Sndway reports higher pm2.5 than the local monitoring station which is only a kilometre away and when I put it near a boiling kettle there's a big spike in the pm2.5 reading so clearly the humidity in Bangkok is giving us readings that are inaccurate.

Yes I've read the study 2x Khun Tubs.

Just to be clear, neither of us knows if Sndway actually corrects for humidity, right??

You get readings similar to nearby station with Sndway.  I get good readings also.  So both happy with meters.

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just in case those that are in denial need a little shove,

 

yes I imagine any of those excuses could be made about air quality readings, humidity etc. etc.

none the less in a country which chooses to publish a rolling average in an attempt to improve the image of the country

they are unable to lie about it when you can see the dust and it obscures the street below your condo as per last Wed..........

the air quality monitors are pretty good, yes you can get spikes due to cooking if you choose to read the monitor then and there and ignore the high dust levels and choose to beleive it is just Thai people cooking.

 

humidity or not Bangkok is polluted 

 

but the cancer rate is not as high as in chonburi, which strangely has the highest rates of cancer in the whole country?

 

go figure, perhaps Bangkok wants to be number 1, the SEA hub of pollution, corruption and cancer victims.

 

go bkkk go, go dictator go,

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