Short term condo rental crackdown?

[mockingbird]

I booked a 30 day rental in the Centric sea condo through AirBnB.

 

When I arrived a couple of days ago, the condo owner  met me at the lobby. The receptionist in the lobby was adamant that the condo owner now had to provide a rental agreement, and that we had to register my tenancy with immigration. The condo owner said she has never been asked to this before. According to the receptionist, immigration are making regular checks with the condo's.

 

Long story short, we both had to go to the building office today to register me through the immigration website portal (this is what hotels do). It took a while as apparently this was the first time the guy in the office had registered anybody through the immigration portal..

 

To anybody that's not aware, the minimum amount of days a condo can be rented out for, according to Thai law, is 30 days. Centric sea now seem to be enforcing this (In fact there's signs all around the building saying that daily\weekly rental is illegal, and tenants will be thrown out for trespassing).

 

I'm not sure if the other large condo buildings will be following suit, but I suspect there is a general crackdown of short term AirBnB type renting.

 

If you've booked anything less than 30 days in the Centric sea condo, then I would seriously advise you to to reconsider your plans.

 

[moonseeker]

This is mainly to ensure guests/tenants get registered with immigration. You should see the lines there every day :-) The rest has been discussed for 3 years now. Fine for non-registration of house-guests starts at 1'600.-- I am being told by friends. Makes sense to register people, been done in Europe for 50 + years. Soon the the very low-season hits and all will cool down and lines will get shorter or disappear. BTW, most condos will NOT register, not their job. BTW, owners need to register themselves, too! Owners or tenants need to go down themselves with proof of address and copies of pp. Simple, free & friendly.

 

MS>

[newnative]

Wonderful if a crackdown happens.  Bravo if Centric is actually getting tough.  But, I was over there the other day and the lobby looked like one for an extremely busy hotel.  And, why is Centric facilitating the illegal short-term rentals by doing the Immigration filing--which is not their job?  Looks like the same sort of pretend crackdown that The Base is doing.

[balo]

Not a crackdown  is it? If it was police would be all over and they know it's an impossible task to prevent short term rentals.   It's up to the condo management. The police will not get involved, unless there is money to be earned..

 

 

[observer90210]

So in other words, if you have friends comming over to visit on Visa Exempt Entry say for 2 weeks,  stay in your home where you are the owner,  one must register them at immigration ?

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, observer90210 said:

So in other words, if you have friends comming over to visit on Visa Exempt Entry say for 2 weeks,  stay in your home where you are the owner,  one must register them at immigration ?

Yes, that's the law.

[The manic]

Old news. Policy introduced last year. Condos are not hotels. We dont want drunken, disrespectful cheapskates destroying the harmony we paid millions of baht for. We an our families live here, work here, get up to go to school here. The new rules are common knowledge. Air BnB is causing problems through out the world. Not your fault. Its the law of unexpected consequences. Any owner who has paid 5 million for a condo does not want strangers with no commitment to their community in their block shouting, drinking, swearing, arguing, slammin door, littering, spitting in elevators, smoking by the pool etc. Owners who rent irresponsibly can be subject to fines and bureaucratic hell. Good.

[bkk6060]

The Base continues it. 100's of people a day.

But, they are meeting the ST tenants outside the gate near 2nd road and giving them the keys.

Security lets them thru if they have a Base key card.

 

[newnative]

33 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

The Base continues it. 100's of people a day.

But, they are meeting the ST tenants outside the gate near 2nd road and giving them the keys.

Security lets them thru if they have a Base key card.

 

     As I said before, I'll know a condo is serious and not just pretending to crackdown when they install a fingerprint system rather than keycards.

[ThaiBob]

Last year, a friend who occupies his condo at Jomtien Condotel (enter by Pan Pan) reported a swarm of Immigration agents performed a similar check at his condo. Until Immigration and Revenue departments start comparing notes, and identity and fine non-compliance individuals for not paying taxes these abuses of the law will continue. There are simple short-term solutions such as requiring condos to post signs in the lifts,  on each floor, in the lobby, in agents offices, that it is illegal to rent a condo unit for less than 30 days. 

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

Last year, a friend who occupies his condo at Jomtien Condotel (enter by Pan Pan) reported a swarm of Immigration agents performed a similar check at his condo. Until Immigration and Revenue departments start comparing notes, and identity and fine non-compliance individuals for not paying taxes these abuses of the law will continue. There are simple short-term solutions such as requiring condos to post signs in the lifts,  on each floor, in the lobby, in agents offices, that it is illegal to rent a condo unit for less than 30 days. 

Those signs are all over The Base.  And at the front gate.  

Sansiri posted them but could careless.

[bkk6060]

8 minutes ago, newnative said:

     As I said before, I'll know a condo is serious and not just pretending to crackdown when they install a fingerprint system rather than keycards.

Great idea but you know as well as I do that it would quickly break down, always need repair, and never be accurate or accurately fixed.  Good in concept, but I think a loser here.

[ThaiBob]

Good for the Base, I see them in Bangkok condos but seldom in Pattaya condos. I don't blame the renters, it is the owners that must be held accountable. 

[Chiangmaijoseph]

Hallo, yesterday my wife went to the Immigration Office to ask if she can rent her condo for short term. The answer was  YES she can, provided that she submits the TM 30 each time within 24 hours. Now today she will talk to the building manager who put up the sign in the first place which says NO short time rental allowed because of Immigration Laws. Will see what happens, when she is confronting him with the facts?

Airbnb is very passive in this matter and does not warn guests of this regulation. 

[newnative]

11 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

Last year, a friend who occupies his condo at Jomtien Condotel (enter by Pan Pan) reported a swarm of Immigration agents performed a similar check at his condo. Until Immigration and Revenue departments start comparing notes, and identity and fine non-compliance individuals for not paying taxes these abuses of the law will continue. There are simple short-term solutions such as requiring condos to post signs in the lifts,  on each floor, in the lobby, in agents offices, that it is illegal to rent a condo unit for less than 30 days. 

   When I lived at Centric it had signs posted everywhere saying short-term rentals are illegal.  As a resident, it was nice to see the law publicized with the signs but I doubt it stopped many of the illegal rentals--by the time the illegal renters read the signs they were already checked in.  Centric doesn't seem to have cracked down on the illegal rentals and, apparently,  now is even doing the Immigration registration. If you are cracking down, you don't make the process easier.

[meinphuket]

As said: its none of the building management's business, they can't control or restrict anything, and nor can the condo's committee. Not their business either to report guests to immigration. They can't force fingerprint or biometric scanning on owners, since that would illegally exclude access to their family members, friends etc. invited to stay. So, live with it, its the new normal, and here to stay.

 

(Building management & Juristic person Manager)

[meinphuket]

On August 29, 2560 BE at 8:48 AM, phuketrichard said:

i have lived in Thailand for  over 30 years,

Do not feel the  Immigration rules are  "stupid" at all.

everything is written out for you.
The only stupid thing i have seen is, how each individual immigration offices determines  how to "interpret" the laws.

 

Whereas the rules/laws in Cambodia are very ambiguous and often not enforced.

Yes 100%

[newnative]

18 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Great idea but you know as well as I do that it would quickly break down, always need repair, and never be accurate or accurately fixed.  Good in concept, but I think a loser here.

  Some condos are already using it.  One of the clinics I use has a fingerprint system to bring up the customer's records.  I noticed at a restaurant I was at that the employees check in for work using a fingerprint system.   There might be some occasional glitches but if it would cut down on the illegal rentals it seems it would be worth it. 

[PattayaAngel]

It is against Thai law for rentals under one month as they are not licensed as a hotel. It's that simple. 

[bkk6060]

There are several laws being broken:

ST rental law.

Immigration report law.

And I am sure there are no taxes being paid for the income.

 

I mentioned this in another thread I know a Thai lady who has about 40 units at The Base.  She has rented them from the owners LT, then rents them out ST Airbnb and the such.   They are almost all full the entire month with ST.

Quick math figures she is making at least 250,000 b a month.  She does have to clean them and has an assistant to meet the ST renters.

[Peterw42]

44 minutes ago, Chiangmaijoseph said:

Hallo, yesterday my wife went to the Immigration Office to ask if she can rent her condo for short term. The answer was  YES she can, provided that she submits the TM 30 each time within 24 hours. Now today she will talk to the building manager who put up the sign in the first place which says NO short time rental allowed because of Immigration Laws. Will see what happens, when she is confronting him with the facts?

Airbnb is very passive in this matter and does not warn guests of this regulation. 

Immigration is only concerned with people being reported (TM30), they dont care less about short term or long term rental etc, only if you are providing accommodation and not doing TM30. 

Short term rental is illegal mostly under the hotel act, you are not a hotel. Also under the Condo act, running a business in a residential property, and the immigration act, providing accommodation but not reporting.

[ThaiBob]

48 minutes ago, Chiangmaijoseph said:

Hallo, yesterday my wife went to the Immigration Office to ask if she can rent her condo for short term. The answer was  YES she can, provided that she submits the TM 30 each time within 24 hours. Now today she will talk to the building manager who put up the sign in the first place which says NO short time rental allowed because of Immigration Laws. Will see what happens, when she is confronting him with the facts?

Airbnb is very passive in this matter and does not warn guests of this regulation. 

Immigration only enforces foreigners being reported properly. 30 day stays are governed by the Hotel Act so that sign needs to be corrected. 

[Destiny1990]

30 minutes ago, newnative said:

  Some condos are already using it.  One of the clinics I use has a fingerprint system to bring up the customer's records.  I noticed at a restaurant I was at that the employees check in for work using a fingerprint system.   There might be some occasional glitches but if it would cut down on the illegal rentals it seems it would be worth it. 

Should always be a fingerprint plus a doorcard system both. Proper condod have that. If u have a visitor staying who wants a swim or go outside u give them the doorcard. Only fingerprint is horrible think about it first!

[chrisinth]

7 hours ago, observer90210 said:

So in other words, if you have friends comming over to visit on Visa Exempt Entry say for 2 weeks,  stay in your home where you are the owner,  one must register them at immigration ?

Legal answer to that would probably be yes.

 

However if your guests have no intention of using the immigration office during their stay then, if it was me, I wouldn't bother. If they decide to extend their visa exempt by another 30 days, then I think they would need the TM30.

[bert bloggs]

My wife will not rent out under a month any longer under any circumstances , end of ,

[Peterw42]

42 minutes ago, meinphuket said:

As said: its none of the building management's business, they can't control or restrict anything, and nor can the condo's committee. Not their business either to report guests to immigration. They can't force fingerprint or biometric scanning on owners, since that would illegally exclude access to their family members, friends etc. invited to stay. So, live with it, its the new normal, and here to stay.

 

(Building management & Juristic person Manager)

Yes, you are correct but lots of condo managements start (they shouldn't be) doing rentals/sales for commission etc, so it becomes a grey area. Also, what point to having security if anyone can come and go.

[newnative]

46 minutes ago, meinphuket said:

As said: its none of the building management's business, they can't control or restrict anything, and nor can the condo's committee. Not their business either to report guests to immigration. They can't force fingerprint or biometric scanning on owners, since that would illegally exclude access to their family members, friends etc. invited to stay. So, live with it, its the new normal, and here to stay.

 

(Building management & Juristic person Manager)

     Wow.  Where to even begin?  With your logic, why even have condo by-laws?  Of course management and the condo board can restrict and control.  That's their duty, for goodness sake.  No pets rule?  That's a condo restriction and management should be enforcing the rule.  The gym closing at 10PM?  That's the condo asserting control over one of its facilities and should also be enforced.  No short-term tenants allowed in condos?  That's a Thai law and, obviously, condo management, the juristic person, and the condo board must uphold the laws of the land--or at least be seen to be trying; hence all the signs posted regarding short-term rentals being illegal.   I certainly hope you are not in building management or a juristic person for the sake of the poor condo residents.

      As for a fingerprint system, as I have said, some condos have already gone to this technology.  It need not exclude visiting family members--they just need to be put into the system when it is set up.  It might even prove to be more convenient as many condos restrict (yes, another restriction!) the number of keycards they issue.  With guests, most condos have rules (yes, another rule!) that guests must always be accompanied by a resident so keycard or fingerprint, no difference there.

[meinphuket]

1 hour ago, Chiangmaijoseph said:

Hallo, yesterday my wife went to the Immigration Office to ask if she can rent her condo for short term. The answer was  YES she can, provided that she submits the TM 30 each time within 24 hours. Now today she will talk to the building manager who put up the sign in the first place which says NO short time rental allowed because of Immigration Laws. Will see what happens, when she is confronting him with the facts?

Airbnb is very passive in this matter and does not warn guests of this regulation. 

The immigration couldn't care less about short or long term rentals, nor do they have jurisdiction, so don't embarass yourself in front of the building manager with this info. The building manager and CJP  also has zero jurisdiction.

[Peterw42]

99% of problems in condo blocks and short term rental problems, comes from Condo offices doing rentals and sales at the expense of doing Condo management. Not much use trying to keep on top of short term rentals when the condo office is one of the players.

 

I have friends in Condo blocks where the Condo office is basically a real estate office, with stuff all condo management going on. A normal condo management, not doing rentals etc, and there are checks and balances, security checks who comes and goes, who parks cars etc, the office keeps tabs on lift access cards, parking permits etc. 

 

 

[meinphuket]

13 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Wow.  Where to even begin?  With your logic, why even have condo by-laws?  Of course management and the condo board can restrict and control.  That's their duty, for goodness sake.  No pets rule?  That's a condo restriction and management should be enforcing the rule.  The gym closing at 10PM?  That's the condo asserting control over one of its facilities and should also be enforced.  No short-term tenants allowed in condos?  That's a Thai law and, obviously, condo management, the juristic person, and the condo board must uphold the laws of the land--or at least be seen to be trying; hence all the signs posted regarding short-term rentals being illegal.   I certainly hope you are not in building management or a juristic person for the sake of the poor condo residents.

      As for a fingerprint system, as I have said, some condos have already gone to this technology.  It need not exclude visiting family members--they just need to be put into the system when it is set up.  It might even prove to be more convenient as many condos restrict (yes, another restriction!) the number of keycards they issue.  With guests, most condos have rules (yes, another rule!) that guests must always be accompanied by a resident so keycard or fingerprint, no difference there.

 

2 minutes ago, meinphuket said:

The immigration couldn't care less about short or long term rentals, nor do they have jurisdiction, so don't embarass yourself in front of the building manager with this info. The building manager and CJP  also has zero jurisdiction.

In terms of restrictions I was on topic, and you were not. I was talking about rental restrictions, as that was the topic. Animals? That is not upto the building manager or committee either to restrict,that should have been included in the rules and regulations approved by 50+% of the owners. Closing and opening times of a common facility must also be approved by the joint owners. The committee are nt law makers. For the sake of other owners, I sure hope you are not on one of those dictatorial boards who regularly exceed their jurisdiction.