PattayaAngel Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, Peterw42 said: 99% of problems in condo blocks and short term rental problems, comes from Condo offices doing rentals and sales at the expense of doing Condo management. Not much use trying to keep on top of short term rentals when the condo office is one of the players. I have friends in Condo blocks where the Condo office is basically a real estate office, with stuff all condo management going on. A normal condo management, not doing rentals etc, and there are checks and balances, security checks who comes and goes, who parks cars etc, the office keeps tabs on lift access cards, parking permits etc. This is very true. The larger problem here, and why most condo blocks have power battles and disputes, is the way the system is set up. A strong condo manager will abuse the system and sweet talk the 51% Thais, control proxy voting and basically run everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meinphuket Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said: 99% of problems in condo blocks and short term rental problems, comes from Condo offices doing rentals and sales at the expense of doing Condo management. Not much use trying to keep on top of short term rentals when the condo office is one of the players. I have friends in Condo blocks where the Condo office is basically a real estate office, with stuff all condo management going on. A normal condo management, not doing rentals etc, and there are checks and balances, security checks who comes and goes, who parks cars etc, the office keeps tabs on lift access cards, parking permits etc. Understand and accept this very basic concept: most condos in holiday areas or holiday destinations are bought by both foreigners and Thais alike to achieve a return on investment. They are marketed by the developers and industry this way. You may like or dislike it, but its here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, PattayaAngel said: This is very true. The larger problem here, and why most condo blocks have power battles and disputes, is the way the system is set up. A strong condo manager will abuse the system and sweet talk the 51% Thais, control proxy voting and basically run everything. Yes, I know of blocks that have ongoing battles for control of the committee and office, because the office is a thriving little real estate business. Meanwhile, the lift is broken, the pool leaks, and its an Airbnb free for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, meinphuket said: In terms of restrictions I was on topic, and you were not. I was talking about rental restrictions, as that was the topic. Animals? That is not upto the building manager or committee either to restrict,that should have been included in the rules and regulations approved by 50+% of the owners. Closing and opening times of a common facility must also be approved by the joint owners. The committee are nt law makers. For the sake of other owners, I sure hope you are not on one of those dictatorial boards who regularly exceed their jurisdiction. You made a blanket statement, I was reacting to that. Of course the joint owners approve the by-laws but, once approved, management and the juristic should be enforcing the by-laws, many of which have restrictions against short-term rentals. But, that's all beside the point. You say it's not up to the building manager or juristic to restrict rentals and, in that, you are correct. The Thai Hotel Law has already done that for you. You don't need to approve or not approve anything. It's been done. It's the law. So, even without a restriction written into the condo by-laws, short-term rentals are illegal under Thai law and condo management, juristic, and condo boards should be abiding by the laws of the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LALes Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 7 hours ago, The manic said: Old news. Policy introduced last year. Condos are not hotels. We dont want drunken, disrespectful cheapskates destroying the harmony we paid millions of baht for. We an our families live here, work here, get up to go to school here. The new rules are common knowledge. Air BnB is causing problems through out the world. Not your fault. Its the law of unexpected consequences. Any owner who has paid 5 million for a condo does not want strangers with no commitment to their community in their block shouting, drinking, swearing, arguing, slammin door, littering, spitting in elevators, smoking by the pool etc. Owners who rent irresponsibly can be subject to fines and bureaucratic hell. Good. Bravo. You hit the nail right on the head. Nobody talks about the rights of owners in the Air BnB discussion. Its always about the hotel tax or the illegal registration. What it really boils down to is the peace of mind and security of the fellow owners in a building who didn't sign up for a bunch of transients stomping through their condo as if it were a hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, newnative said: You made a blanket statement, I was reacting to that. Of course the joint owners approve the by-laws but, once approved, management and the juristic should be enforcing the by-laws, many of which have restrictions against short-term rentals. But, that's all beside the point. You say it's not up to the building manager or juristic to restrict rentals and, in that, you are correct. The Thai Hotel Law has already done that for you. You don't need to approve or not approve anything. It's been done. It's the law. So, even without a restriction written into the condo by-laws, short-term rentals are illegal under Thai law and condo management, juristic, and condo boards should be abiding by the laws of the land. Most by-laws will have a "no unlawful activity", "no businesses" etc, so in that respect the JP has jurisdiction. My condo block does it all the time, issues breech notices for short term rentals, gets them shut down on Airbnb etc. You can only get a parking spot, lift card etc with a chanote or a lease document etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said: Most by-laws will have a "no unlawful activity", "no businesses" etc, so in that respect the JP has jurisdiction. My condo block does it all the time, issues breech notices for short term rentals, gets them shut down on Airbnb etc. You can only get a parking spot, lift card etc with a chanote or a lease document etc. Nice to see a condo operating as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Ed Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 These crack downs dont seem to have reached Hua Hin yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champers Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Am I right in thinking that money; in the form of commissions; is the key driver for condo staff not abiding by the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, champers said: Am I right in thinking that money; in the form of commissions; is the key driver for condo staff not abiding by the law? And not small change either, 3% sales commission on a 2mb condo is 6 months wages for someone in the condo office. Ongoing commission on 5-10 rentals, the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 In CM during the high season, short-term rentals in condos seem to be the rule rather than the exception. Would be OK if the short-termers knew how to behave. Some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natway09 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 At the time the Hotel Association agreed to pay a "bed tax" they also made a deal on minimum nights a "non registered hotel)" ie.; apartments could take in guests 30 days. This to me is logical & helps to protect condo owners having to share their public areas with what often works out to be riff rafe who have no respect for condo owners property & do not contribute to upkeep of same. I know of one place around the corner that is full of short term, short time European hookers who work late hours, are noisy (or their customers are) & have as a result diminished the owners resale values by at least 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendlyfiend Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 hours ago, The manic said: Old news. Policy introduced last year. Condos are not hotels. We dont want drunken, disrespectful cheapskates destroying the harmony we paid millions of baht for. We an our families live here, work here, get up to go to school here. The new rules are common knowledge. Air BnB is causing problems through out the world. Not your fault. Its the law of unexpected consequences. Any owner who has paid 5 million for a condo does not want strangers with no commitment to their community in their block shouting, drinking, swearing, arguing, slammin door, littering, spitting in elevators, smoking by the pool etc. Owners who rent irresponsibly can be subject to fines and bureaucratic hell. Good. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farangdanny Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I understand that the landlord doesn't necessarily have to do the registration. The tenant or guest can do it themselves at local police station with a TM 28, simple form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 35 minutes ago, natway09 said: I know of one place around the corner that is full of short term, short time European hookers who work late hours, are noisy (or their customers are) & have as a result diminished the owners resale values by at least 30% Yes, I know of a similar block. Once you let short term, daily weekly, rentals go unchecked, its not much of a stretch to go to hourly rentals. I know a guy in Pattaya that owns a condo, when he bought it it was owners and long term rentals. He left Thailand for a couple of years and returned to airbnb and hourly rentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Lacessit said: In CM during the high season, short-term rentals in condos seem to be the rule rather than the exception. Would be OK if the short-termers knew how to behave. Some don't. CM still has many older blocks that are apartments not Condos, an apartment block isnt individual ownership, one person owns the whole block. They may even have a hotel license. Apartment blocks are more commercial than residential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBob Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 For those stating that condo management, juristic, the Committee has a responsibility to enforce the legality of the 30 day ban on short-term rentals, I might add our lawyer advised our Committee that our condominium is regulated by the Thailand Condominium Act and not the Hotel Act; we can only advise, request cooperation but not act to enforce the Hotel Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton123 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I don't understand. Am I correct in thinking when my family visits me next month, we all have to go and queue up at Immigration, and eventually fill in forms to say where they are staying for 2 weeks? If it's true then imagine the pandemonium at immigration offices all over the country. I'd guess it will only happen to visitors once, because they certainly won't be coming back. Better things to do on holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, ThaiBob said: For those stating that condo management, juristic, the Committee has a responsibility to enforce the legality of the 30 day ban on short-term rentals, I might add our lawyer advised our Committee that our condominium is regulated by the Thailand Condominium Act and not the Hotel Act; we can only advise, request cooperation but not act to enforce the Hotel Act. Yes thats correct but even under the Condominium Act, condo by-laws etc, there are broad laws covering unlawful activities, business in residential building etc. As with most laws, the Police enforce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 4 hours ago, PattayaAngel said: It is against Thai law for rentals under one month as they are not licensed as a hotel. It's that simple. It's NOT that simple... There are a least to types of "condo": Condominium and Condotel. Several of the well know "condo"s in Pattaya are Condotel, by example "Center Condo" full name is "Center Condotel". I don't know the details, but think that short term rental is authorised in Condotels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Shackleton123 said: I don't understand. Am I correct in thinking when my family visits me next month, we all have to go and queue up at Immigration, and eventually fill in forms to say where they are staying for 2 weeks? If it's true then imagine the pandemonium at immigration offices all over the country. I'd guess it will only happen to visitors once, because they certainly won't be coming back. Better things to do on holiday. If your family stay at your house, yes you are supposed to do a TM30 (alien in residence) report. If your family stays at a hotel, the hotel will report them. Its really only relevant if your family will have future contact with immigration, applying for an extension etc. Otherwise most dont bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said: It's NOT that simple... There are a least to types of "condo": Condominium and Condotel. Several of the well know "condo"s in Pattaya are Condotel, by example "Center Condo" full name is "Center Condotel". I don't know the details, but think that short term rental is authorised in Condotels I think you can safely assume "condotel" is not an official term, more a play on words, its a hotel. Or part of a block operating as a hotel. Lots of blocks in Bangkok have a residential tower and a hotel tower, all part of the same big complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said: I think you can safely assume "condotel" is not an official term, more a play on words, its a hotel. // I think you are wrong here. It's clearly not an hotel. Being owner in a Condotel, I see absolutely no difference with a Condominium. I own my unit (Chanote in my/foreign name) and the management is made by owners/committee/manager same as in a Condominium. From this site : Quote What are condotels? Condotels uses the ownership structure of a condominium with the option of operating it like a hotel. The ‘condo’ half allows you to buy and own units as an outright property investment while the ‘hotel’ half allows you to put them up for rent under the building’s hotel program and services which provide the booking, cleaning and room services for a percentage. Nota: Except that there is no "building’s hotel program" in my Condotel...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I have seen several condo management offices enforce these rules as well. as with all laws in thailand, the important thing is to know how it is being enforced. I wait for seeing a case of a creative condo owner making overlapping 30 days contracts for his clients, like airlines do "overbooking". I hold the opinion however, that a ban on rentals of any duration is an unacceptable curtailing of property rights. Just suppress the need for a hotel licence for any accomodation business, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said: I think you are wrong here. It's clearly not an hotel. Being owner in a Condotel, I see absolutely no difference with a Condominium. I own my unit (Chanote in my/foreign name) and the management is made by owners/committee/manager same as in a Condominium. From this site : Nota: Except that there is no "building’s hotel program" in my Condotel...?? It still comes down to having a hotel license, as you say, in your case its a condotel in name only as they dont do hotel rentals. operates as a condo block, short term rental would still be illegal as no hotel license. Not sure why they would call it a condotel, given that, as per the definition above, its not. If they get a hotel license, then its a hotel with individual ownership, live in or hand it over to the hotel pool (if its in the hotel pool would they then let you do airbnb etc?) Its maybe possible for any condo block, if all the owners agree, to get a hotel license and operate as a condotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaAngel Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, ThaiBob said: For those stating that condo management, juristic, the Committee has a responsibility to enforce the legality of the 30 day ban on short-term rentals, I might add our lawyer advised our Committee that our condominium is regulated by the Thailand Condominium Act and not the Hotel Act; we can only advise, request cooperation but not act to enforce the Hotel Act. Huh? of course condos are under the condo act which means? no under one month lets AND enforce the condo act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jippytum Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Chiangmaijoseph said: Hallo, yesterday my wife went to the Immigration Office to ask if she can rent her condo for short term. The answer was YES she can, provided that she submits the TM 30 each time within 24 hours. Now today she will talk to the building manager who put up the sign in the first place which says NO short time rental allowed because of Immigration Laws. Will see what happens, when she is confronting him with the facts? Airbnb is very passive in this matter and does not warn guests of this regulation. Your wife was given the wrong information . Less than a thirty day rental is in contravention of the hotel act and is enforced by immigration ,city hall and the land office . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaAngel Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said: It's NOT that simple... There are a least to types of "condo": Condominium and Condotel. Several of the well know "condo"s in Pattaya are Condotel, by example "Center Condo" full name is "Center Condotel". I don't know the details, but think that short term rental is authorised in Condotels Wrong. It IS that simple either you have a LICENCE or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jippytum Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, PattayaAngel said: Wrong. It IS that simple either you have a LICENCE or you don't. Just now, PattayaAngel said: Wrong. It IS that simple either you have a LICENCE or you don't. A condo that want to allow short term rentals and the majority of owners agree this would have to be reregistered as a condotel ie hotel guests and owners mixed. All rental guests would require hotel registration .Apart from other requirements twenty four hour reception is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton123 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Peterw42 said: If your family stay at your house, yes you are supposed to do a TM30 (alien in residence) report. If your family stays at a hotel, the hotel will report them. Its really only relevant if your family will have future contact with immigration, applying for an extension etc. Otherwise most dont bother. Thanks for that. I thought once you filled in your place of residence on the landing card you had effectively informed Immigration of your location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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