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Short term condo rental crackdown?


mockingbird

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it is not the job of the management to register short term rentals. It is the responsibility of the owner of the unit. By undertaking the task of registration the management are declaring themselves implicated in an illegal act.

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4 minutes ago, tolsti said:

it is not the job of the management to register short term rentals. It is the responsibility of the owner of the unit. By undertaking the task of registration the management are declaring themselves implicated in an illegal act.

If the management 'doesn't know' and didn't even see if money has changed hands then there has been no illegal rental witnessed. They are within their rights to facilitate the co-owners in offering service to register TM30 on the behalf of the co-owners

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2 hours ago, digbeth said:

If the management 'doesn't know' and didn't even see if money has changed hands then there has been no illegal rental witnessed. They are within their rights to facilitate the co-owners in offering service to register TM30 on the behalf of the co-owners

I think you'll find that management knows exactly who's doing the illegal rentals.

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On 24/01/2018 at 6:49 PM, balo said:

Not a crackdown  is it? If it was police would be all over and they know it's an impossible task to prevent short term rentals.   It's up to the condo management. The police will not get involved, unless there is money to be earned..

I think we are talking immigration police...

 

The way this may work out is if someone is picked up by the immigration police they may well be asked where they stay, if they say condo then they say you rent or own? you rent then why you not register? wheres your rental agreement?

Long and short of it is, it could be the condo owner and the condominiums managements neck on the line.

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15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Condo. The management should be able to do TM 30 for him. In any event, the management have to know you are staying and they should know what to do. That is their job.

If you don't get TM30 how can you get visa extension, if one is needed?

Yes, it would make sense for condo management to file it for him, but rule says owner must file and show ownership papers plus lease contract. I pay the owner, not the condo management. Others commenting on here agree owner must file TM30 (Even if they live in Sweden?) but my question was about visitors who are not paying rent. But thanks for trying to solve this puzzle.

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15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Condo. The management should be able to do TM 30 for him. In any event, the management have to know you are staying and they should know what to do. That is their job.

If you don't get TM30 how can you get visa extension, if one is needed?

I keep reading owner must file TM30 and that is why ownership papers must be shown. My question was about non-paying guests. If I can file or the condo then great. I guess I'll find out when I'm jailed, fined, and my guest and I banned from the country. 

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On 1/26/2018 at 4:57 PM, bkk6060 said:

He will fly down everytime.

Joking...

 

I do nothing on this.  99.9999% noone cares and noone will report you or find out about your guests.

.

Condo management and owner are not on good terms. That's why I got a good deal on it. So no telling what they might do.

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On January 25, 2561 BE at 9:16 AM, PattayaAngel said:

It is against Thai law for rentals under one month as they are not licensed as a hotel. It's that simple. 

So pray tell, who is going to enforce the law ? Certainly not the condo management or the know-it-all committee boyos, neither have the authority, and officialdom lack the manpower.

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11 hours ago, Basil B said:

I think we are talking immigration police...

 

The way this may work out is if someone is picked up by the immigration police they may well be asked where they stay, if they say condo then they say you rent or own? you rent then why you not register? wheres your rental agreement?

Long and short of it is, it could be the condo owner and the condominiums managements neck on the line.

I have never heard or read the immigration police interested in rental agreements or condo ownership, nor do they ask or check if were registered as an overnight guest. They can, but don't. All these armchair specialists' talk is nothing but scaremongering and hyperbole. 

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56 minutes ago, meinphuket said:

So pray tell, who is going to enforce the law ? Certainly not the condo management or the know-it-all committee boyos, neither have the authority, and officialdom lack the manpower.

If they are reported I can assure you the authorities will be VERY interested. You have a very ignorant attitude and hope you get caught soon.

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1 hour ago, meinphuket said:

I have never heard or read the immigration police interested in rental agreements or condo ownership, nor do they ask or check if were registered as an overnight guest. They can, but don't. All these armchair specialists' talk is nothing but scaremongering and hyperbole. 

I wish you were correct. But I had to supply all my details as did the owner to take to the IO. Also you might not be aware of the use of on line reporting by condo and guest house authorities. Our committee is includes a professional management group, owner volunteers and a judicial person. We, between us have stopped short term lets, prevented rubbish being dumped outside doors and are prosecuting all those owners who have not contributed to the communal funds and are auctioning their condos via the courts to raise the money they owe.

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1 hour ago, meinphuket said:

So pray tell, who is going to enforce the law ? Certainly not the condo management or the know-it-all committee boyos, neither have the authority, and officialdom lack the manpower.

Our condo committee is includes a professional management group, owner volunteers and a judicial person. We, between us have stopped short term lets, prevented rubbish being dumped outside doors and are prosecuting all those owners who have not contributed to the communal funds and are auctioning their condos via the courts to raise the money they owe. You must live in an unregulated dump.

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On 1/24/2018 at 10:07 PM, moonseeker said:

... Makes sense to register people, been done in Europe for 50 + years. ...

Maybe in your bit of Europe.

 

On 1/25/2018 at 7:45 AM, bkk6060 said:

The Base continues it. 100's of people a day.

But, they are meeting the ST tenants outside the gate near 2nd road and giving them the keys.

Security lets them thru if they have a Base key card.

 

How ball achingly perilous is that 'system'?

 

On 1/25/2018 at 8:31 AM, ThaiBob said:

Good for the Base, I see them in Bangkok condos but seldom in Pattaya condos. I don't blame the renters, it is the owners that must be held accountable. 

Indeed, but how on earth are these owners ever going to make the 'guaranteed rental income' spiel they swallowed when they foolishly bought their tiny box in the sky?

 

On 1/25/2018 at 8:41 AM, Chiangmaijoseph said:

Hallo, yesterday my wife went to the Immigration Office to ask if she can rent her condo for short term. The answer was  YES she can, provided that she submits the TM 30 each time within 24 hours. Now today she will talk to the building manager who put up the sign in the first place which says NO short time rental allowed because of Immigration Laws. Will see what happens, when she is confronting him with the facts?

Airbnb is very passive in this matter and does not warn guests of this regulation. 

She's hardly confronting anyone with 'facts' is she? She's only going to tell the building manager what a desk jockey at the Jomtien IO told her; not fact and probably not even law. The building manager then calls their contact at Jomtien IO and gets told a totally different 'fact'.

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6 hours ago, meinphuket said:

I have never heard or read the immigration police interested in rental agreements or condo ownership, nor do they ask or check if were registered as an overnight guest. They can, but don't. All these armchair specialists' talk is nothing but scaremongering and hyperbole. 

This the subject of the thread... the requirement of any foreigner to register with immigration with in 24 hours of staying at any address even if it were for only one night.

 

As it is also an offence of the property owner not to report, I am sure the immigration police should enquire about any rental agreement as it is evidence to prosecute the property owner if they were doing their job properly, as pointed out by the OP things are changing.

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3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Maybe in your bit of Europe.

 

How ball achingly perilous is that 'system'?

 

Indeed, but how on earth are these owners ever going to make the 'guaranteed rental income' spiel they swallowed when they foolishly bought their tiny box in the sky?

 

She's hardly confronting anyone with 'facts' is she? She's only going to tell the building manager what a desk jockey at the Jomtien IO told her; not fact and probably not even law. The building manager then calls their contact at Jomtien IO and gets told a totally different 'fact'.

I suspect it is not immigration law, but the law was interpreted in the past that it was only hotels and gust houses that needed to register foreigners and condominium management were worried that people renting/letting short term were falling into this category. 

 

Obviously the growing popularity of AirBnB may well see many condominiums having what some co-owners see as poor quality tourists over running their place, but this is for each condominium to decide on their rules to tackle this, IMHO I see it as not being a big issue and all it really needs:

  • The Condominium office to have notices pointing out what that office is for and for other issues the renter must contact the owner or their agent.
  • The owner or their agent must be available to contact at all times.
  • A hand book containing the condominium rules and information available for all rooms.
  • The owner should have his contact details and if not local, those of a local agent affixed to the inside of the apartments front door.

Would also be nice to see the condominiums taking responsibility for registering guest, they could make a small charge for this and it helps them issue passes and guest cards.

  

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Just read a thread in Thai forum about a Thai in Bangkok trying to report a next door neighbor in a condo AirBnB-ing that has 'guests' coming and going in late hours at night and banging on doors, being a nuisance and such they contact every department from immigration to the hotel association and even inland revenue to dob the neighbour in, all of the government bodies they tried contacting just take their details or give them the run-around to contact other department so doesn't appear to be any real crackdown.

 

The moral of the story is that unless you can vote it some rule at the Condo's AGM and have solid management/juristic person that enforce it, don't expect enforcement from the authorities.

 

Any condo bylaws that can mitigate airBnB practice is likely to be infringing on other co-owners rights and some condos might already have rules/practice that overstepped their bounds already

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feel sorry for those AirBnB having to stay next door to such a horrible person... :tongue:

 

Fact is I doubt every AirBnB bangs the doors, either the condos are built with very thin walls or the complainant has nothing else to complain about.

 

As for coming and going in the night, come on... are not condos for getting away from it all and having a good time?

 

As for having a bad gust living next door to them for a few day is better than having a bad long term renter or co owner living next to them for years.

 

As a former owner of a condo I rarely had a disturbed night and I was often in bed by 11pm, I also recall being told that when the condos were built there was a rule that prevented residents taking up permanent residence in the Condominium which was overturned at an AGM. 

 

This is a difficult issue, if you owned a condo would you not like to lend it out to friends, family and possibly even employees so that would make it difficult to differentiate from short time paying guests.

 

One way for condominiums to crack down on bad guests is to warn the offenders, if they do not improve there behaviour, warn the condo owner if he does not sort it out he will be fined and his guests transferred to the Soi 9 BiB Guest House...

 

A lot is down to co-owners attending their AGMs and get rules changed to what they want.

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8 hours ago, Basil B said:

feel sorry for those AirBnB having to stay next door to such a horrible person... :tongue:

 

Fact is I doubt every AirBnB bangs the doors, either the condos are built with very thin walls or the complainant has nothing else to complain about.

 

As for coming and going in the night, come on... are not condos for getting away from it all and having a good time?

 

As for having a bad gust living next door to them for a few day is better than having a bad long term renter or co owner living next to them for years.

 

As a former owner of a condo I rarely had a disturbed night and I was often in bed by 11pm, I also recall being told that when the condos were built there was a rule that prevented residents taking up permanent residence in the Condominium which was overturned at an AGM. 

 

This is a difficult issue, if you owned a condo would you not like to lend it out to friends, family and possibly even employees so that would make it difficult to differentiate from short time paying guests.

 

One way for condominiums to crack down on bad guests is to warn the offenders, if they do not improve there behaviour, warn the condo owner if he does not sort it out he will be fined and his guests transferred to the Soi 9 BiB Guest House...

 

A lot is down to co-owners attending their AGMs and get rules changed to what they want.

    As I have said before, co-owners can't go to an AGM and pass a condo rule that defies Thai law and allows short-term rentals of less than a month.  Thai Law outranks a condo rule.  And, by the way, no, condos are not for 'getting away from it all and having a good time'.  That's what a hotel is for.  Condos are residences, just like homes are residences.  But, even more so than a home in a neighborhood, residents living in close proximity in a condo building need to be respectful of all condo rules, and all Thai laws--which have been written as rules and laws for a reason.

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feel sorry for those AirBnB having to stay next door to such a horrible person... :tongue:
 
Fact is I doubt every AirBnB bangs the doors, either the condos are built with very thin walls or the complainant has nothing else to complain about.
 
As for coming and going in the night, come on... are not condos for getting away from it all and having a good time?
 
As for having a bad gust living next door to them for a few day is better than having a bad long term renter or co owner living next to them for years.
 
As a former owner of a condo I rarely had a disturbed night and I was often in bed by 11pm, I also recall being told that when the condos were built there was a rule that prevented residents taking up permanent residence in the Condominium which was overturned at an AGM. 
 
This is a difficult issue, if you owned a condo would you not like to lend it out to friends, family and possibly even employees so that would make it difficult to differentiate from short time paying guests.
 
One way for condominiums to crack down on bad guests is to warn the offenders, if they do not improve there behaviour, warn the condo owner if he does not sort it out he will be fined and his guests transferred to the Soi 9 BiB Guest House...
 
A lot is down to co-owners attending their AGMs and get rules changed to what they want.
"As for coming and going in the night, come on... are not condos for getting away from it all and having a good time?"

No you have thousands of guesthouse and hotels. Last thing I want to see are hookers and lady boys roaming the corridors and that is what happens. I don't want my home looking like the Nana hotel
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6 hours ago, inThailand said:

This is another law that is almost impossible to enforce, but when the opportunity arises authorities are more than happy to pocket some change to look the other way. It's business as usual here.

??

You have proof of that nonsense?

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:43 AM, Mac98 said:

Yes, it would make sense for condo management to file it for him, but rule says owner must file and show ownership papers plus lease contract. I pay the owner, not the condo management. Others commenting on here agree owner must file TM30 (Even if they live in Sweden?) but my question was about visitors who are not paying rent. But thanks for trying to solve this puzzle.

Renting is irrelevant. TM 30 is about where someone is staying, not about financial arrangements.

Guests must be registered, if not Thais.

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15 hours ago, Basil B said:

I suspect it is not immigration law, but the law was interpreted in the past that it was only hotels and gust houses that needed to register foreigners and condominium management were worried that people renting/letting short term were falling into this category. 

 

Obviously the growing popularity of AirBnB may well see many condominiums having what some co-owners see as poor quality tourists over running their place, but this is for each condominium to decide on their rules to tackle this, IMHO I see it as not being a big issue and all it really needs:

  • The Condominium office to have notices pointing out what that office is for and for other issues the renter must contact the owner or their agent.
  • The owner or their agent must be available to contact at all times.
  • A hand book containing the condominium rules and information available for all rooms.
  • The owner should have his contact details and if not local, those of a local agent affixed to the inside of the apartments front door.

Would also be nice to see the condominiums taking responsibility for registering guest, they could make a small charge for this and it helps them issue passes and guest cards.

  

When I rented a condo in Pattaya, I rented a condo owned by someone, but the people issuing the rental agreement and dealing with me were the condo management, not the owner. Obviously, they were acting as "agents" for the owner. Seems simple enough for that to be done in every case of an owner renting out their condo.

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24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When I rented a condo in Pattaya, I rented a condo owned by someone, but the people issuing the rental agreement and dealing with me were the condo management, not the owner. Obviously, they were acting as "agents" for the owner. Seems simple enough for that to be done in every case of an owner renting out their condo.

Except that it's not the role of the Condo management to do so.

Condo owners (at least all those who don't rent their rooms) would disagree to pay the Management to work for the profit of only a few owners-renters...

 

PS: Misunderstood some previous posts. So yes could be OK if renters have to pay for this service

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6 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Except that it's not the role of the Condo management to do so.

Condo owners (at least all those who don't rent their rooms) would disagree to pay the Management to work for the profit of only a few owners-renters...

I don't understand why you think all the condo owners would pay the management to do so. IMO an individual arrangements, just like using a letting agency to rent out a privately owned house.

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49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't understand why you think all the condo owners would pay the management to do so. IMO an individual arrangements, just like using a letting agency to rent out a privately owned house.

     You're missing the point.  It's not the job of the condo management to rent out condos.  Condo management keeps the pools clean, maintains the property, manages the staff, pays the bills, enforces the condo rules, etc. 
  

 

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all co-owners in a condo pay CAM fees according to the same rate calculation in their building. Why should a co-owner who lives most or all of the year have to subsidise those who rent out their units to short term rentals which it can arguably be said cause more wear and tear on the facilities due to the Hotel attitude of the new guests. 

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I rent out a condo on air bnb but monthly only. You would have to be crazy to rent out nightly. You still have to check them in and out every day, listen to complaints because everybody wants 5 star service even at 2 star prices.

I once had a guy show me a tiny bug he trapped under a jar in the kitchen lol . Dealing with the public is the worst thing. So many weirdos!

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My understanding of the forum rules is we can't "name and shame", but there's no reason we can't have a list of Pattaya condos with notably good management that actively prevents ST rentals and keeps the place well maintained. Such a list would be very useful to me as a prospective buyer/long term renter. At least if you've got something good to say about your condo, please name them!
 

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