Congratulations!

[Ulysses G.]

Mike the guy that had the Mexican stand in Chiang Mai commented how expensive refried beans are. Heard this also in Bkk. Have not gotten to that step so far on the cost of this "gold" yet.

Yes, he did, but he insisted on using the real beans and his Mexican food tastes 100% authentic.

The MOST expensive ingredient is hard corn tacos and chips. That is why they are so expensive!

[Ulysses G.]

About Thai avacados, yes they seem to have a short season, and aren't they from Burma? Here in Pattaya I have yet to see or try a local avacado that wasn't poor quality or rotten.

We get good, reasonably priced avocodos in Chiang Mai from June until December. that's not bad.

I would prefer all year, but the situation is much better now than in the past and beggars can't be choosers.

One of the more famous Mexican restaurants is using two imported avocadoes for every Thai avocado. They give a very small portion however.

In California, avocados are not very expensive, but many Mexican taco stands mix the guacamoli with sour cream. Would that cut costs?

[MarkBKK]

What? Oh, you mean in tins. You're not making your own? Sure you're cut out for catering?

Like anything, freshness counts....everything will be homemade and fresh or we will never open the doors. That’s just how we do business. ( involved in 20 restaurants now)

Mike the guy that had the Mexican stand in Chiang Mai commented how expensive refried beans are. Heard this also in Bkk. Have not gotten to that step so far on the cost of this "gold" yet.

All good ideas Guys. Please keep them coming.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Hoist by my own sarcasm.

What I meant to get across was that refried beans in tins are expensive here (because they're imported), but that pinto beans/kidney beans (not an argument I wish to take part in) are available and cheap(er). Making your own refried beans is easy and would be much cheaper than using tinned alternatives (and after a bit of trial and error they taste better too), resulting in increased profits. One of the concepts of successful catering (i.e. profitable) is to ''add value'' to ingredients yourself ... blah, blah, blah ...

[Jingthing]

Please, no LARD in the refritos, amigo!

And yes many crappy Mexican restaurants water down the guac many ways. I thought mayo and water was the most common. Please don't, that is vile.

[Nam Plah]

Please, no LARD in the refritos, amigo!

And yes many crappy Mexican restaurants water down the guac many ways. I thought mayo and water was the most common. Please don't, that is vile.

I don't think that beans (refried or whole) are well tolerated by Thai people as I cooked up some for my GF and she simply couldn't digest them.

Maybe they lack the enzymes for these particular proteins?

In any event Lard is a staple of Mexican food, it heats up to higher temperatures than vegetable shortenings creating crispier and slightly smoky fried foods.

For my tastebuds the frijoles ain't refritos without it!

As for the guac... sour cream is probably not going to go over well (dairy is another food not well tolerated by the general Thai eater) and any adulteration of the avocado concoction should be considered sacreligious.

Mayonaise? Shiver!

Offer smaller portions of this green gold rather than trying to extend it with fillers.

mio dos pesos.

[Jingthing]

I agree that lard is a staple of Mexican cooking. However, Mexican cooking for the tastes of most gringos who tend to have some health consciousness quite often means frijoles made without lard, and this can be quite good. Mexican places in California for example often place a large sign stating NO LARD, and they are bragging, not apologizing. I respect the lard side of this argument but still don't think a Mexican restaurant in Thailand for farangs and Thais should use lard.

Pure authenticity is a pipe dream and not really always desirable. A real taqueria in Mexico serves tacos only, not burritos, and wouldn't use any refritos for the tacos, only whole pintos. A California style Mexican place would also offer California style burritos (not a real Mexican dish) with the option of refritos, whole pintos, or even black beans. I think a Mexican place in Thailand should definitely aim towards a more Californian style target.

A burrito in an authentic Mexican restaurant will simply be some kind of Mexican meat rolled around a large flour tortilla. Thats it! No rice, no beans, no salsa, no guac, no sour cream, no cheese, no lettuce ,etc. Most of us who love the wonders of the fully blown California style Mexican burrito (which is the style that has dominated in the US) would be very disappointed to see something that authentic!

Edited January 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[tutsiwarrior]

I agree that lard is a staple of Mexican cooking. However, Mexican cooking for the tastes of most gringos who tend to have some health consciousness quite often means frijoles made without lard, and this can be quite good. Mexican places in California for example often place a large sign stating NO LARD, and they are bragging, not apologizing. I respect the lard side of this argument but still don't think a Mexican restaurant in Thailand for farangs and Thais should use lard.

Pure authenticity is a pipe dream and not really always desirable. A real taqueria in Mexico serves tacos only, not burritos, and wouldn't use any refritos for the tacos, only whole pintos. A California style Mexican place would also offer California style burritos (not a real Mexican dish) with the option of refritos, whole pintos, or even black beans. I think a Mexican place in Thailand should definitely aim towards a more Californian style target.A burrito in an authentic Mexican restaurant will simply be some kind of Mexican meat rolled around a large flour tortilla. Thats it! No rice, no beans, no salsa, no guac, no sour cream, no cheese, no lettuce ,etc. Most of us who love the wonders of the fully blown California style Mexican burrito (which is the style that has dominated in the US) would be very disappointed to see something that authentic!

I agree...most gringos wouldn't know authentic mex food if it slapped dem inna face with a warm tortilla...

('turkey with chocolate?...you got to be kiddin'...)

[Nam Plah]

JT,

I am on board with that.

One of my favorite Mexican places in Los Angeles is Baja Fresh. No lard, black beans and plenty of fresh, potent salsas etc.

Just putting in a good word for this oft maligned fat as it has gotten a bad reputation (I'll admit it isn't the most healthy ingredient) but when you use it to make chips or fried tacos, taquitos, chimichangas, etc... it tastes like nothing else!

My old friend recalled a funny incident from his childhood sitting at his kitchen table and seeing what he assumed was a plate of ice cream on the table, reached out his spoon and ate a big dollop of it...

It was lard.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Nam Plah

[cathyy]

I don't think that beans (refried or whole) are well tolerated by Thai people as I cooked up some for my GF and she simply couldn't digest them.

Maybe they lack the enzymes for these particular proteins?

I myself have noticed that Thais tend to avoid beans, although it seemed to me to be related to the potential for gas afterward. I would suggest offering tacos and burritos with and without beans to allow for Thais to avoid them if they prefer. Beans and rice are such a classic diet combination that I too wonder if beans are less digestible to Thais. We already know that dairy is, due to widespread lactose intolerance. Sour cream plus beans plus cheese does not equal ambrosia to the average Thai!

[Ulysses G.]

Many Thais are not going to like Mexican food initially, just like they didn't like Pizza Hut until it became fashionable, however, trying to change the food to fit their tastebuds will just chase farangs off and NOBODY will eat there.

It is better to make authentic food for a limited market than garbage that NO ONE will eat.

[Jingthing]

A a good taqueria, customers can specify exactly what they want on their tacos/burritos. I, for example, think cheese, sour cream and lettuce don't belong in a burrito but must always have guacamole. You can have a nice taco that is only a tortilla, meat, and salsa. No need for beans or cheese if you don't like them.

I am not suggesting making Thai style Mexican food, whatever that is. I am suggesting making California style Mexican food, because that is what has proven most popular with non-Mexican farang tastes, and there ain't many Mexicans in these parts!

I would leave it to Thais to morph Mexican food into Thai style Mexican food, but frankly, that sounds scary.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[Nam Plah]

Sour cream plus beans plus cheese does not equal ambrosia to the average Thai!

No doubt. *Burp!

You think that the average Mexican could stomach Som Tahm?

But it makes me wonder if the folks in the Phillipines (having similar Spanish colonial influence as the Mexicans) can tolerate the beans and dairy thing.

Anyone know about Mexican food popularity in The Phillipines?

[Jingthing]

Interesting question! Especially considering that the Philipines was once administered by Spain through Mexico. There were direct shipping routes between the Philipines and Mexico in those times.

I have never noticed even one Mexican restaurant in the Philipines during my times there. Had some great Spanish food there though.

[Ulysses G.]

I am not suggesting making Thai style Mexican food, whatever that is. I am suggesting making California style Mexican food, because that is what has proven most popular with non-Mexican farang tastes, and there ain't many Mexicans in these parts!

I concur, but would suggest that California style Mexican food usually has mucho cheese and sour cream as well as guacamole.

[Nam Plah]

Interesting question! Especially considering that the Philipines was once administered by Spain through Mexico. There were direct shipping routes between the Philipines and Mexico in those times.

I have never noticed even one Mexican restaurant in the Philipines during my times there. Had some great Spanish food there though.

Anti-colonial cultural resentment?

I know your sentiment about the popular style of Mexican food, ie; California-style is on target with tastes and demographics but the best taco I ever had was nothing but grilled steak with a sprinkle of chopped raw onions and cilantro in a fresh corn tortilla and a squeeze of fresh lime juice...

Oh, man!

Utter simple perfection.

But on the flip side when I used to live in a loft in downtown L.A. my loftmate and I would drive over to East L.A. to a place called "El Pollo Y Mas" (the chicken and more) to pick up some 99 cent burritos that weighed in at just under a kilo apiece (no joke) and were stuffed with beans, cheese, rice, salsa, lettuce, tomato, onion, guacamole, sour cream and for another 50 cents some freshly rotisseried chicken.

We would load up on a few of these apiece and have food for two or three days as you could only eat about half of one.

Burrito means Little Mule!

The best strategy IMHO is to offer a choice of simple and extravagent Mexican fare to suit all tastes.

[tutsiwarrior]

I don't think that beans (refried or whole) are well tolerated by Thai people as I cooked up some for my GF and she simply couldn't digest them.

Maybe they lack the enzymes for these particular proteins?

I myself have noticed that Thais tend to avoid beans, although it seemed to me to be related to the potential for gas afterward. I would suggest offering tacos and burritos with and without beans to allow for Thais to avoid them if they prefer. Beans and rice are such a classic diet combination that I too wonder if beans are less digestible to Thais. We already know that dairy is, due to widespread lactose intolerance. Sour cream plus beans plus cheese does not equal ambrosia to the average Thai!

<deleted> thais...good mex food only appeals to those that appreciate it...beans an' sour cream??? you can't even find the ingredients...

sorry, cathy...mex food will only appeal to falangs (can just see them thais now...picking up a burrito or a tamale, turning it over and smelling it, then putting it down politely with an obvious look ob disgust)...local entrepenuers will haveta promote the cuisine wid thai soap opera stars diggin' in and declaring how wonderful this falang cuisine is...

I'm wonderin' what a carnitas burrito would taste like drenched in nam pla...

[Jingthing]

To clarify my culinary position, I think it helps to not put tacos and burritos together. I am assuming this new place would offer the antojitos style of fare, tacos, burritos, maybe chile relleno, maybe enchiladas, maybe tamales. All great stuff.

As far as the simple real Mexican style TACOS described by a poster, I agree that style is the best, and the same style is very common in California. I wouldn't offer MINI tacos though (sometimes called Mexico City style), you can get the same flavors with standard size tortillas. I think people would feel ripped off to see those tiny tortillas, even though delicious.

For burritos, the holy grail is San Francisco Mission District style. Forget about "real" Mexican style burritos. These are just meat only in a flour tortilla. Burritos are a Northern Mexican food, and California used to be Northern Mexico. The burrito has blossomed into a spectacular food phenom on United States soil, thats just the way it is.

The super burrito is to San Francisco what the corned beef on rye is the New York, the Italian beef to Chicago, and the fried donut hole sandwich is to Baltimore.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[pumpuiman]

A burrito joint near my home in Massachusetts that is thriving, offers a menu of ready made burritos with catchy names. Something that could be applied regionally....such as a "Bangkok burrito" or "The Spicy Sukhumvit"

or whatever...get creative.

Also they offer , and this is the more popular option, building your own burrito.

You point to the ingredient you want, all ingredients are clearly labeled with a brief description, in full view of the customer.

[Jingthing]

Build your own burrito is the Mission district style. But only from the Mexican style options (no turkey and cranberry burritos). You choose the meat, the rice type, the bean type, the salsa heat level, whether you want cheese, lettuce, sour cream, or guac. Super burritos always include sour cream and cheese standard, sometimes guac. Basic burritos are meat, beans, and rice standard, sometimes cheese.

Tortillas covering non-traditional ingredients are WRAPS. Wraps were a food trend a few years back. Such things as Thai chicken with sate sauce in a tortilla.

Please do not do WRAPS. They are the worse kind of food bastardization.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[tutsiwarrior]

yeah...my favorite place was by the corner of 16th an' Valencia...one ob de original 'build yer own burrito' places in the late 70s. However, I feel that this West Coast concept is too much for many non-California falangs to grab, much less the locals. For the BKK entreprenuer I would say keep it simple...a build yer own burrito wid lengua an' adornments will evolve eventually...(sure did love dem fat, gigling mexican ladies assembling dem burritos down in de Mission...dem mothers musta weighed a kilo)

[Heng]

The General Manager of Rembrandt Hotel which has the Senor Pico restaurant stated yesterday, 40% of the customers at Senor Pico now are Thai.

Some of me and my friends are in that group, and most of us are Thais from Texas or California. Would love to see your place work though, as Senor Pico's averages 600-700 Baht per person, which is fine considering how hard it is to find Mexican food, but there is a slight cognitive dissonance considering we all know how much Mexican food should cost. It'd be great to have a once a week type (Pico's feels more once a month) place or place you can order out for decent tasting delivery.

[tutsiwarrior]

The General Manager of Rembrandt Hotel which has the Senor Pico restaurant stated yesterday, 40% of the customers at Senor Pico now are Thai.

Some of me and my friends are in that group, and most of us are Thais from Texas or California. Would love to see your place work though, as Senor Pico's averages 600-700 Baht per person, which is fine considering how hard it is to find Mexican food, but there is a slight cognitive dissonance considering we all know how much Mexican food should cost. It'd be great to have a once a week type (Pico's feels more once a month) place or place you can order out for decent tasting delivery.

'cognitive dissonance'? tell that to the giggling fat mexican woman assembling yer burrito

[Jingthing]

yeah...my favorite place was by the corner of 16th an' Valencia...one ob de original 'build yer own burrito' places in the late 70s. However, I feel that this West Coast concept is too much for many non-California falangs to grab, much less the locals. For the BKK entreprenuer I would say keep it simple...a build yer own burrito wid lengua an' adornments will evolve eventually...(sure did love dem fat, gigling mexican ladies assembling dem burritos down in de Mission...dem mothers musta weighed a kilo)

I think I know that place. You got me salivating.

[farangene]

yeah...my favorite place was by the corner of 16th an' Valencia...one ob de original 'build yer own burrito' places in the late 70s. .....de Mission...dem mothers musta weighed a kilo)

I think I know that place. You got me salivating.

Probably Taqueria Pancho Villa?? 16th and Valencia--- Excellent!!

Also El faro/Farolito and Taqueria La Cumbre. Mmmmmm!

[tutsiwarrior]

yeah...my favorite place was by the corner of 16th an' Valencia...one ob de original 'build yer own burrito' places in the late 70s. .....de Mission...dem mothers musta weighed a kilo)

I think I know that place. You got me salivating.

Probably Taqueria Pancho Villa?? 16th and Valencia--- Excellent!!

Also El faro/Farolito and Taqueria La Cumbre. Mmmmmm!

dem places musta changed hands a dozen times in the past 30 years but Taqueria La Cumbre sounds accurate...dey useta hand out nice calendars around xmas time...

[Ulysses G.]

Also El faro/Farolito

El Faro was supposed to be the best when I live in San Francisco.

Boy, do I miss it!

[tutsiwarrior]

El Farolito has a sinister connotation...in Malcolm Lowry's novel 'Under the Volcano' the drunken gringo protagonist was murdered by mexican nazis in a cantina of the same name...he didn't get to eat no burritos...

Edited January 28, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[pampal]

Build your own burrito is the Mission district style. But only from the Mexican style options (no turkey and cranberry burritos). You choose the meat, the rice type, the bean type, the salsa heat level, whether you want cheese, lettuce, sour cream, or guac. Super burritos always include sour cream and cheese standard, sometimes guac. Basic burritos are meat, beans, and rice standard, sometimes cheese.

Tortillas covering non-traditional ingredients are WRAPS. Wraps were a food trend a few years back. Such things as Thai chicken with sate sauce in a tortilla.

Please do not do WRAPS. They are the worse kind of food bastardization.

Wraps are most often made with middle eastern lavash bread.

Not really a mexican thing

[Jingthing]

Build your own burrito is the Mission district style. But only from the Mexican style options (no turkey and cranberry burritos). You choose the meat, the rice type, the bean type, the salsa heat level, whether you want cheese, lettuce, sour cream, or guac. Super burritos always include sour cream and cheese standard, sometimes guac. Basic burritos are meat, beans, and rice standard, sometimes cheese.

Tortillas covering non-traditional ingredients are WRAPS. Wraps were a food trend a few years back. Such things as Thai chicken with sate sauce in a tortilla.

Please do not do WRAPS. They are the worse kind of food bastardization.

Wraps are most often made with middle eastern lavash bread.

Not really a mexican thing

You would be wrong on that.

Yes, there are Middle Eastern sandwiches made with lavash bread, and they are wonderful.

However, WRAPS, as in the misguided American food trend, are usually made with FLOUR TORTILLAS, MEXICAN FLOUR TORTILLAS:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/imag...5a&ei=UTF-8

[qualtrough]

I myself have noticed that Thais tend to avoid beans, although it seemed to me to be related to the potential for gas afterward. I would suggest offering tacos and burritos with and without beans to allow for Thais to avoid them if they prefer. Beans and rice are such a classic diet combination that I too wonder if beans are less digestible to Thais. We already know that dairy is, due to widespread lactose intolerance. Sour cream plus beans plus cheese does not equal ambrosia to the average Thai!

I agree that Thais in general avoid beans and bean-like foods, but I doubt the reason is gas. Most Thais I know find farting in private amongst friends and family a source of endless amusement. Perhaps it is ignorance of the gas-producing qualities of beans that has kept Thais away? If that is the case you might play that up and then you might have to beat them off with a stick once the fact becomes well known.