SURVEY: Do you want Trump to finish his first term?

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, beechguy said:

I was there working on reconnaissance and surveillance programs, no didn't sit in on the meetings with the Generals, just heard their, and their subordinate's comments as we conducted operations. You think Wikileaks was?

 

The feeling I got, is they, commanding officers, didn't think it was a good idea, but that didn't stop Obama, with help from Hilary. But, it didn't stop there, Obama and Hilary have a lot of blood on their hands from their positions on the Arab Spring. A lot of bodies in the dirt, and floating in Med, from Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc. I don't see how you all could call Hilary qualified, when she couldn't even mange classified material, never mind make a good policy decision. 

 

So for 2016, many of us felt that Trump was a better choice than Hilary, both domestically and for foreign policy issues. If you guys don't like it, give us better options for future elections.

In short, you don't know who made the decision to let ISIS retreat, why it was made, or what the alternatives were.  I assume you wanted to bomb the hell out of them and all the civilians they were hiding among.  How many civilians do you think would have died if this had been done?

 

Way off-topic; but you're now blaming Obama for the Arab Spring?  You seem keen on bombing civilians, do you think Obama should have bombed the protesters?

 

 

[beechguy]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In short, you don't know who made the decision to let ISIS retreat, why it was made, or what the alternatives were.  I assume you wanted to bomb the hell out of them and all the civilians they were hiding among.  How many civilians do you think would have died if this had been done?

 

Way off-topic; but you're now blaming Obama for the Arab Spring?  You seem keen on bombing civilians, do you think Obama should have bombed the protesters?

 

 

The alternative, was for us not to abandon our position and influence in northern Iraq, then the problem never would have occurred.  Obama got outsmarted by ISIS( the JV Team), and they crapped all over his Red Line. 

Trump is allowing the military to make some progress, and it's not all about dropping bombs.

[beechguy]

In the mean while, this isn't just about Trump, there a lot of Red States out there, if the Democrats want to change that, they need to offer something appealing. So far I'm not seeing it. As for Trump's term so far, I like the tax situation, I'm finding better health insurance options, the business and employment situation is better, etc.  dailykos.com/images/327488/original/Governors.png 

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.   Continue and face a suspension.   You will not be alone in the penalty box.  

 

[stud858]

Had to have a quick listen to the Beatles Get Back. 

So back on topic and discussing If Trump should finish his term and why. 

To reiterate my view.

You can't throw out a voted president without clear cut evidence of a serious crime.  If you do, then you'll go through 10 presidents a year. Grey area crime that needs to be debated is not warrant enough.

[utalkin2me]

14 hours ago, heybruce said:

Do you trust an obvious, habitual liar?  One that is an obvious, self-serving opportunist with no standards of personal behavior and who cheerfully associates with notoriously corrupt people? 

 

Do you think such a person should lead a nation?

No. But if I am an fbi investigator, and all the facts I am being told by someone are adding up and I do not find them to be lying, I do not really care what was said in public. My job is just to find the truth and make sure people are not lying to me. 

 

Lying in public to other citizens or tweets that are lies are a completely separate matter. 

 

I am not a fan but feel right now he is being tried using his tweets as evidence. If i tweet right now I just did a line of coke i doubt the dea can bust down my door. See my point? 

[utalkin2me]

14 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

You set a very low bar for Heads of State.

 

The issue is what Trump is actually saying. With his current batch of lies comes evidence of obstruction of justice and also conspiracy (that's collusion for the uneducated). Trump will go down, the question is will it be on his own or how many American lives will he take with him when he predictably tries to call on his base and incite violence in his last desperate throws to save himself and his three little piggies.

 I hope he goes down. MY point is just that if he is lying when he tweets, and telling the truth during the investigation, he should be fine if he did not do anything wrong. In short, the tweets mean nothing in my opinion. He could tweet he poisened princess diana but it would not matter if actual facts during the investigation proved otherwise. 

 

The guy is sick but his downfall is not going to be the tweets in my opinion. Thats all i am saying. 

[simple1]

58 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

No. But if I am an fbi investigator, and all the facts I am being told by someone are adding up and I do not find them to be lying, I do not really care what was said in public. My job is just to find the truth and make sure people are not lying to me. 

 

Lying in public to other citizens or tweets that are lies are a completely separate matter. 

 

I am not a fan but feel right now he is being tried using his tweets as evidence. If i tweet right now I just did a line of coke i doubt the dea can bust down my door. See my point? 

Re your last paragraph, not a good comparison as if admitting a criminal act you can be raided by law enforcement to ascertain whether further criminal acts are occurring, such as possession / dealing.

 

trump has tweeted total misinformation concerning managing wildfires in California, should he be sued for time wasting, diversion of resources to in response to his politically motivated BS? The point being moronic Trump's tweets are not harmless.

 

Paul Ryan has just confirmed his POV that the President of the USA is using his social media access and other public statements for the purpose of "Trolling". In other words the most influential political office in the world is utilised for BS nearly every day of the week with the enormous amount of time wasting and associated risks to the security of the USA and allied countries. Got to admit a smart move to have Pence as the VP, as it's been projected Pence would be worse than Trump for the future of the USA. IMO doubtful impeachment will proceed even if all  evidence available due the very real concerns Trump will further erode US credibility and especially domestic stability during the process.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, utalkin2me said:

 I hope he goes down. MY point is just that if he is lying when he tweets, and telling the truth during the investigation, he should be fine if he did not do anything wrong. In short, the tweets mean nothing in my opinion. He could tweet he poisened princess diana but it would not matter if actual facts during the investigation proved otherwise. 

 

The guy is sick but his downfall is not going to be the tweets in my opinion. Thats all i am saying. 

Lying has an affect on credibility and credibility is taken into account even in a Court.   This man has no credibility.   

 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

 

Duplicate post deleted

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, stud858 said:

Had to have a quick listen to the Beatles Get Back. 

So back on topic and discussing If Trump should finish his term and why. 

To reiterate my view.

You can't throw out a voted president without clear cut evidence of a serious crime.  If you do, then you'll go through 10 presidents a year. Grey area crime that needs to be debated is not warrant enough.

Two things:

 

First, the House of Representatives can impeach a sitting President and the Senate can vote to convict the President for whatever reason they decide qualifies as a "high crime or misdemeanor".

 

Second, no charges have been filed against the Trump campaign yet, but possible campaign finance law violations and possible meetings with the intent to accept illegal foreign support have been reported on.  Let's see what the final report says.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

No. But if I am an fbi investigator, and all the facts I am being told by someone are adding up and I do not find them to be lying, I do not really care what was said in public. My job is just to find the truth and make sure people are not lying to me. 

 

Lying in public to other citizens or tweets that are lies are a completely separate matter. 

 

I am not a fan but feel right now he is being tried using his tweets as evidence. If i tweet right now I just did a line of coke i doubt the dea can bust down my door. See my point? 

Agreed, the FBI should be looking for evidence of criminal activities.  However the public has every right to consider Trump's habitual lying and lack of character in judging whether he is fit to be President.

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, beechguy said:

The alternative, was for us not to abandon our position and influence in northern Iraq, then the problem never would have occurred.  Obama got outsmarted by ISIS( the JV Team), and they crapped all over his Red Line. 

Trump is allowing the military to make some progress, and it's not all about dropping bombs.

The US military was making good progress against ISIS before Trump took office.  ISIS lost over half its territory before Trump took office.  The ISIS retreat didn't begin with Trump, even though Trump pretends it did.  Stick with the facts.

[riclag]

Here’s how Trump could pull off another election surprise

This opinion writer might have something here! PT should consider his opinion for the Independent vote !

"A famous American once said, “It’s very easy to be presidential.”

That famous American was Donald Trump. So, let’s see some of it".

https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/article216217525.html

But on second thought ,that's not PT!

[beechguy]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

The US military was making good progress against ISIS before Trump took office.  ISIS lost over half its territory before Trump took office.  The ISIS retreat didn't begin with Trump, even though Trump pretends it did.  Stick with the facts.

And you are still missing the point, if things had been done correctly, ISIS never would have had that territory, Obama gave it them, most coming through Turkey and Syria. Your inexperience with Arab culture is showing, at some point you don't ask, you show some leadership, and tell them what is going to happen, even if it is their country. As to civilian loses, what do you think was happening to those people while Obama was sitting on his hands? They were being raped, tortured, and executed by the thousands. 

 

This incident happened just down the road from where I was at in 2010. When I departed, things were going reasonably good, businesses opened again, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Camp_Speicher_massacre

 

Why do you think Trump is so popular in Saudi, Israel, and other countries in the Middle East. Look at the current situation with Saudi and Canada.

[beechguy]

I should also have added, that two of the ISIS men had made it to Finland, giving validity to Trump's caution to the U.S. and Allies, that a more thorough vetting process should be used when dealing with refugees. Please don't get me started on the Iran Deal and other poor foreign policy decisions made by the previous administration.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, beechguy said:

And you are still missing the point, if things had been done correctly, ISIS never would have had that territory, Obama gave it them, most coming through Turkey and Syria. Your inexperience with Arab culture is showing, at some point you don't ask, you show some leadership, and tell them what is going to happen, even if it is their country. As to civilian loses, what do you think was happening to those people while Obama was sitting on his hands? They were being raped, tortured, and executed by the thousands. 

 

This incident happened just down the road from where I was at in 2010. When I departed, things were going reasonably good, businesses opened again, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Camp_Speicher_massacre

 

Why do you think Trump is so popular in Saudi, Israel, and other countries in the Middle East. Look at the current situation with Saudi and Canada.

Any you are still missing the point that Trump campaigned on the promise to not get involved in nation building and foreign wars--he would have done the same.  You are also ignoring the fact that Obama pulled out of Iraq because the government was making demands that no responsible President would agree to, that US personnel in Iraq be subject to Iraqi laws and Iraqi justice.  Would you have worked there under these conditions?

 

Trump is popular with autocrats everywhere; they know he is like minded and easily manipulated.

[Spidey]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

The US military was making good progress against ISIS before Trump took office.  ISIS lost over half its territory before Trump took office.  The ISIS retreat didn't begin with Trump, even though Trump pretends it did.  Stick with the facts.

The simple fact is that if it had been left to US forces, ISIS would still be there now.

 

The Russians entered the fray and cleared the lot out in no time flat.

[stud858]

Oh boy.  Imagine if US and Russia joined forces.  What a mighty nation that would be.  I can't think of a better pairing.

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Oh boy.  Imagine if US and Russia joined forces.  What a mighty nation that would be.  I can't think of a better pairing.

Putin would love that, because Putin would be the one in charge.

[Opl]

26 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Oh boy.  Imagine if US and Russia joined forces.  What a mighty nation that would be.  I can't think of a better pairing.

[Scott]

This thread seems to have long since passed its Use-by date.  

 

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