Road carnage: January death toll goes through the roof

[tropo]

11 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Now your thinking that the Government should look at how similar 'problems' are handled in other countries, perhaps?  

 

 

 

No, I'm not thinking that.

[tropo]

9 hours ago, Artisi said:

Last time i looked, this site and discussion was about Thailand, so how about sticking with the discussion at hand.  

 

LOL> as he offers his own off-topic discussion about off-topic discussion. Either get a job as a moderator or find another forum more suited to your own sensibility.

[wavemanwww]

20 hours ago, Artisi said:

You must have just stepped off the plane - there is no need to say anything - money always comes first, above and beyond anything else or anyone in Thailand. 

You should see a Dr, That is a Dr of psychotherapy

[6thST]

On 2/2/2018 at 9:13 PM, Orton Rd said:

same as a jumbo jet crashing every week of the year killing all on board- mai pen rai, they seem incapable of doing the most obvious things to change it. Apart from the usual stupidity why do they feel the need to be constantly changing lanes? sometimes every few hundred yards.

I like the ones that race to the red light only to jam their brakes on when they get there? But where the hell are going???

[6thST]

Just now, 6thST said:

I like the ones that race to the red light only to jam their brakes on when they get there? But where the hell are going???

A very sad Situation that's not going to get better anytime soon?

 

[Mark mark]

On 03/02/2018 at 12:28 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Helmets only work at low speeds in a collision. Hitting an unmoving object at 60kph would probably cause death despite the best helmet in the world. The problem as I see it is speed where it is unsafe ( speed is fine on good roads with good visibility and little traffic ), and dangerous overtaking. That can only be solved with education. If fines worked, there would not be a single incident of speeding in my home country.

Education is up to the Thai authorities.

I'd also like to see every mangled vehicle displayed prominently as a reminder.

Nice Reply Thai Beach Lovers. Thanks.

 

Yes Helmuts, well I have jst been lucky I guess, and you are probably right, but well, I always had a BETTER Helmut ? And always wearing shoes, or better still boots, is also good, as well the first thing that hits the road, usualy, is your feet ! And they can get Really F'd up as I am sure that you all have seen.

 

I saw a totally destroyed minivan on a pedestal in North Sumatra once, like you could just imagine how many poor people would have been in it, and killed, and well the effect on me WAS pretty effective I felt !!!

 

Yes Education, but well, they all know about it !!! … Thai People, … They nearly all have probably seen more than one relation killed, as well as many friends and acquaintances from their village, and gone to their funerals

 

As I said in the  continuing / recent post about the poor Nurse, 

 

There must be an Enforced Points system !

 

And fines that are honestly applied, and enforced also.

 

Like I like the Thais, but well, you want to get their attention ! ? ... Just hit them in their pocket book, … their wallet !!!...  And stop then driving if they are irresponsible. And Goal them when they still keep on doing it. ? A bit harder, that end bit.

 

[d4291797]

You must be in need of an eyesight test 3 serious accidents come on we used to see that on one trip to bk and  the same going home again

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, badischer Barde said:

 

Not really...

 

Its often the car drivers fault that those accidents happen. But it's almost always the scooter drivers dying. So it's actually the bad apples weeding out the people to poor to buy a car. How's that gonna help?

 

.

 

A german statistics Prof. once proposed an interesting solution. Cruel, bloody, but very efficient, so typical german, I guess...

 

Replace all airbags with metal spikes. So whatever would set off an airbag would instead drive a metal spike through the drivers head.

True... it might kill a few more drivers at first. But soon they will drive so much more carefully that you'll get a big net gain in saved lifes.

Well... Thailand might be 'the' place to try that theory...

 

But as long as you can turn without looking, run over a scooter, and drive away without anyone so much as writing down your licence plate number there's fairly little incentive to drive like a decent human beeing.

Wasn't that what the 1960s Buicks did? 

[MrY]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Wasn't that what the 1960s Buicks did? 

 

What could go wrong: a lapbelt for false security, a non-collapsible steering column, a 2 ton vehicle with drum brakes and a 6 liter V8. Love 'em!

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, MrY said:

 

What could go wrong: a lapbelt for false security, a non-collapsible steering column, a 2 ton vehicle with drum brakes and a 6 liter V8. Love 'em!

With no seat belts and of course no enforcement there was a cover up. Harvey Earle's obsession with jet planes meant that the rear view mirror was mounted on a jet-like spike. The result was that even in the most minor incident...not even a collision just sudden braking a passenger or driver could be thrown forward and the spike pierced the skull causing pretty much instant death.

Later in the 1970s the death rate in the USA was as high as it is in Thailand now. It would seem that "bad driving" whatever that is, is not actually the underlying cause of the death rates.

[Airbagwill]

On 2/3/2018 at 12:28 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Helmets only work at low speeds in a collision. Hitting an unmoving object at 60kph would probably cause death despite the best helmet in the world. The problem as I see it is speed where it is unsafe ( speed is fine on good roads with good visibility and little traffic ), and dangerous overtaking. That can only be solved with education. If fines worked, there would not be a single incident of speeding in my home country.

Education is up to the Thai authorities.

I'd also like to see every mangled vehicle displayed prominently as a reminder.

You don't seem to understand the purpose of crash helmets...it's little to do with speed at all.

If you fall off a stationary blike without breaking the fall and no helmet you are still at risk of brain injury....or death. The purpose of helmets is to protect the skull from glancing blows at any speed....there is not cut off point at which they become useless.

The truth is that the majority of motorbikes in Thailand travel at relatively low speeds and internal brain injuries of those not wearing helmets are not visible...The victim appears fine but DIES apparently uninjured....a helmet would probably have saved them...... but even at low or high speeds, direct head impacts are not protected.

Contrary to perception there are very few "fine good roads" in Thailand that is down to poor engineering design and maintenance.

[Scott]

Numerous posts reported and removed.  

 

[Airbagwill]

the only figures that seem to record the number of COLLISIONS in Thailand are those over the 2 holiday periods.

it has been shown that in fact the death rates over these periods is in fact not that different from the rest of the year, so it would be logical to conclude that the number of collisions is also  representative of the annual average.

 

If you then compare these figures to the number of reported collisions in UK (and extremely detailed set of stats) you will see that the number of collisions in both countries is about the same yet Thailand has a death rate of 10 to 125 time that of UK.

So "bad driving" cannot be the cause, there have to be other factors, the most obvious being the massive discrepancy between Thailand and other countries in the percentage of "vulnerable" road users killed. Vulnerable includes motorcyclists, 3 wheeled vehicles pedestrians and cyclists - over 70% of those are motorcyclists.

 

passengers and drivers of private 4 wheeled vehicles account for about 13% of road deaths - it would be nice if the number of collisions they were involved in was available.

 

Stats on road safety in Thailand are incomplete and collected ina haphazard way, the result is that it is very difficult to get a clear picture of what is happening - personal observation is the very WORST method by far, as is it grossly distorted by such things as confirmation bias - examples all over this thread.

It seems to elude most posters on thread about road safety that the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

 

[MrY]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

the only figures that seem to record the number of COLLISIONS in Thailand are those over the 2 holiday periods.

it has been shown that in fact the death rates over these periods is in fact not that different from the rest of the year, so it would be logical to conclude that the number of collisions is also  representative of the annual average.

 

If you then compare these figures to the number of reported collisions in UK (and extremely detailed set of stats) you will see that the number of collisions in both countries is about the same yet Thailand has a death rate of 10 to 125 time that of UK.

So "bad driving" cannot be the cause, there have to be other factors, the most obvious being the massive discrepancy between Thailand and other countries in the percentage of "vulnerable" road users killed. Vulnerable includes motorcyclists, 3 wheeled vehicles pedestrians and cyclists - over 70% of those are motorcyclists.

 

passengers and drivers of private 4 wheeled vehicles account for about 13% of road deaths - it would be nice if the number of collisions they were involved in was available.

 

Stats on road safety in Thailand are incomplete and collected ina haphazard way, the result is that it is very difficult to get a clear picture of what is happening - personal observation is the very WORST method by far, as is it grossly distorted by such things as confirmation bias - examples all over this thread.

It seems to elude most posters on thread about road safety that the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

Agreed, but if you go by the rule "There's a hundred near misses per every accident", then even the guy that had only seen 3 accidents over the years probably has gotten a fairly good 'feel' as to how dangerous the traffic is in Thailand, and my own example of 13 accidents in a day is certainly not indicative an average day. Several of the countries I have visited and consider dangerous I never saw an accident in. To me Thailand does not feel anywhere near as bad as many countries in Africa with similar official death rates. One of the biggest reasons of course is that I mostly drive a car these days, which in the cities is almost no risk at all. When on motorcycle my motto is "Drive like you're invisible, because you are".

[diehard60]

this is because thai people know how to but but dont know how to drive

[selftaopath]

On 2/4/2018 at 3:40 AM, shaurene said:

You are DEAD right Dark-Dog, I often drive from Khon Kaen to Pattaya 550K's and see so many frightening sites. The speed some of them go. Very little indications to let you know where they are turning etc. Public Buses hogging the outside right lanes and all clear in front of them. Police at checkpoints sitting under the sun covers, just a bloody laugh.

Will never change in a million years. The Police get paid Jack shit so why should they bother.

 

Thanks for your post. I agree with you with the exception of BIB's pay. I believe they make a salary commensurate of their education/efforts etc. As is typical entry level positions are rarely extraordinary, both here and elsewhere. Do you know or does anyone know the real salary amounts for Thai police? I am lead to believe they start out at or near the rate of a Thai teacher. 

 

Thanks again for your post.

[berybert]

I have come to realize there is no such thing as a bad Thai driver. 

Clueless almost all of them but not bad. How can you be good at something you are never taught ?

There is no real test, there are no lessons. 

I have never seen an L plate in Thailand. 

It will never change because they don't know what they do is wrong because they think it is right. 

Most people from countries where driving is mostly safe struggle to pass the test here because the answers on the test sheet are all wrong if you don't think like a Thai.

[jackdd]

10 minutes ago, selftaopath said:

Thanks for your post. I agree with you with the exception of BIB's pay. I believe they make a salary commensurate of their education/efforts etc. As is typical entry level positions are rarely extraordinary, both here and elsewhere. Do you know or does anyone know the real salary amounts for Thai police? I am lead to believe they start out at or near the rate of a Thai teacher. 

 

Thanks again for your post.

You asked this already, and i answered it already on page 15

[mikebell]

On 02/02/2018 at 8:59 PM, darksidedog said:

I saw the cops twice.

And there's the answer.  Thai cops do not go out after dark so they never see drunk-driving; dangerous speeding; motorbikes without lights; red light runners.  Until Thailand gets a police force these numbers will continue to grow.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, mikebell said:

And there's the answer.  Thai cops do not go out after dark so they never see drunk-driving; dangerous speeding; motorbikes without lights; red light runners.  Until Thailand gets a police force these numbers will continue to grow.

I see people drunk driving when i go out for lunch... Not as many as in the night, but they exist. Same with all the other things you listed.

And sometimes you can see police in the night, but then they just check for drunk driving and don't care about for example missing helmets. But of course most police finishes work at about 4pm.

So in my opinion the biggest problem is the small timespan in which the law is enforced. On some days they make a checkpoint at some places for a few hours (if you live in an area for a while you know where these checkpoints are, so it's easy to avoid them if you know something is not ok). 95% of the time you don't have to care about any police.

 

Then there are different groups of people who are just ignored by police, for different reasons.

Let's say they drive a motorbike without a helmet, which means 100% chance to get stopped as a foreigner:

- They just look poor, police doesn't expect that they can pay them any money

- They are >60, respect for older people, they don't want to make them feel uncomfortable

- People in any kind of uniform that shows that they work for the government

 

[hashmodha]

Could you define "defensive" and Offensive" driving?

Of course..I just saw this...Defensive driving is when one is worried about being hit from the behind...always looking in the rear mirror....example...I want to turn right....I indicate...50-75 ,mts before.....I pray by looking in my rear mirror that it is safe.....then flashing..hooting cars want to overtake...before allowing me....no I do not live off a main road...
Offensive driving is when one is worried about being hit from the front......keeping safe distances between overtaking and NEVER going too near a Thai car...
Here we must take care of our backs and front....how most of these people got their licenses?

Please excuse spelling mistakes/Grammar/Misunderstanding!

[hashmodha]

Absolutely..
 
"We will,we will rock them!!
 

I love that of Freddie.....I used to work in Kensington Market on Saturdays..when he looked liked that...they were up to all sorts...and the Boys from Rolling Stones...made my day...Thanks....must go and make a cuppa...Good day!

Please excuse spelling mistakes/Grammar/Misunderstanding!

[SooKee]

Having failed to tackle this issue successfully a new committee has been formed, tasked to examine the problem and, as a matter of urgency, find a way to blame foreigners.

[Saltire]

I don't know what happens in the bigger cities but in the village I live in, every day I see one of the reasons the Thai drivers are so bad. There is a local school with about 800 students and the majority of kids drive motorbikes to and from school. Most of them are 12 to 17 and at night after school the local village roads become a joyride circuit with 3 or 4 kids to a bike. Of course none wear a crash helmet.

 

But what really beggars belief and I still can't understand it, is why parents would do this, but when the kids are about 9 or 10 years old they are actively taught and encouraged to drive the family moto. I am not exaggerating. My neighbours 8 year old is tootling about on the moto/sidecar with 5 mates now. He is so small I doubt he could pick up a moto if he dropped it.

 

They are taught nothing, only how to stop and go. Nothing about speeding, road safety, the law, etc. Even in a small village there are regular accidents, just 1 week ago I had to take a neighbours daughter to the local hospital after a car knocked her off her bike and of course failed to stop.

 

So when I see these horrendous figures and the carnage when driving myself, I always think 'start em young' may have something to do with it. These kids are the futures statistics. It's sad and exasperating to watch on a daily basis.

[jvs]

We live on a very quiet soi,most of the time.A few houses down there is a young Thai man with the noisy bike we all know.

Everytime he goes somewhere he makes as many revs and noise as possible.

We all were saying ,'one of these days.

It happened last Sunday,we heard him start his bike and take of like being chased by ghosts,then after maybe a hundred meters all went quiet.It has been very peaceful all week,big scrape on the road and a puddle of oil.

He is still alive,i hope he has learned from this.