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Road carnage: January death toll goes through the roof


snoop1130

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6 hours ago, DavidB4 said:

I know the situation in Thailand is terrible but honestly you make Europe sound like a big-brother police state that scares me even more than the Thai drivers! 

It is getting that way.  However, on the road issues, I would rather have it be like big brother police state than get injured or have loved ones killed on the roads as a common thing, as it is here in Thailand. 

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16 hours ago, Thian said:

Exactly.

 

Here's a video of how the Dutch police is undercover and confisticates 4 driverslicenses of racing big bikes....This is what Thailand needs...The motobikes drove more than 50 km/hr too fast which means they lost their license on the spot.

 

 

Thailand is the "co-dependent" capital of the world. Dolling out consequences for most mis-behavior doesn't and won't happen. Oh and then there's the "bribe" component in Lack of Sanctions (LOS). 

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6 hours ago, DavidB4 said:

I know the situation in Thailand is terrible but honestly you make Europe sound like a big-brother police state that scares me even more than the Thai drivers! 

Why does it scare you. Would it be because you are scared of being caught breaking the law and therefore having to pay a fine or even lose your license because of your own stupidity.

Just remember that fines are a voluntary contribution to the government, no one forces you to be a stupid idiot and break the law it is totally your choice.

Anyone who believes that because of the police doing their job properly and catching the law breakers and fining them or taking them off the roads to protect the other innocent people and claiming it is a big-brother police state has something to hide in their own personality and that they are afraid that they will get caught by the police

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Seems that Government people (from the top down), too often are not able to 'multi-task' their thinking. Single solutions abound without thought (and logic) to possible outcomes. Guess 'they' do not understand how to apply a SWOT analysis to a problem either. Or taking off their blinkers and looking outside of their country to see how others have dealt with similar problems.

 

Then again I could be over analysing this and really, while the snouts are in the trough, they care only about themselves while the going is good? :whistling:

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2 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Actually, he could not have predicted and planned for an eruption 10,000 km away, could he? There was no weather app in 1815, btw! LOL (And "you" (TV members)  thought you know it all!)

 

But, we digress!

 

I think we need to have some kind of analysis about when and how these accidents take place and why. I would be astounded if they were happening at 9 a.m. on a weekday, for instance! Ah! There are police checks, but everyone feel they can avoid them. Social network anyone? Competing with road safety is the vendors of alcohol in restaurants (and the govn't tax revenues). Are govn't "solliloquies" bringing people to drinking more? LOL Therein lies the issue. What are the incentives for all parties involved to change?

 

I believe that it would take a generation or two to remove these bad habits from the culture, at best. No govn't programs is going to make a dent in any of it in a few months. Still, the trend is distressing. The problem is that many believe that drinking-and-driving is okay, that they can handle it, that they know their limit. The true alcoholic always does, but in truth he does not know or care. There are many alcoholics here. We should be fair though. There are alcoholics in all countries. Still it seems that drinking to get drunk is popular here (too). Still, anti-smoking programs in some countries were successful. It is possible to do it with alcoholism. It would demand excellence in teaching (a govn't program that is based on sound pedagogy and persuasion techniques) and it would take a number of reforms and services (Is a life worth a tuk-tuk ride? What if the restaurant had to pay it? What if police was forcing restaurants to act responsibly). Unfortunately, there are other bigger issues. Amazing Thailand! It is all amazing. Make-belief. Ultimately, it would take intelligent planning to offset revenue losses. Are the people in charge really experts or have they just paid for their status or their badges? Are they accountable? How? Have any heads rolled (metaphorically)? Is there anyone who will ever take the keys off someone hands? All this losing face culture has to go, but that is so ingrained. With cars having cameras and everyone having phones, maybe we should reward people who catch those bad drivers in the act. Fear of retaliation seems to be the other side of that losing face culture. The culture must change. It starts when they are young. It will take one or two generations, if it ever happens. 

 

I read the Chinese and the Indians are trying to address their smoking issues. It is a bit late, but they are doing something about it. Don't expect blue skies in Beijing tomorrow though. Oh! They are building a lot of nuclear power plants. I would prefer cleaner, renewables. In the meantime,... In the mean time,...

 

 

After digesting your post, 1 felt that maybe only 1 sentence would have sufficed, which was'  " The culture must change". The unnecessary road carnage is due to 2 major problems within Thai culture, and these are the avoidance of confrontation, and loss of face.

It's apparent in LOS that no-one has the mental fortitude to at least make a start on the road to reducing these deaths, and IMHO the Prayut and previous governments are to blame. Only recently there was a major U-Turn on passengers being carried in the open backs of trucks. Why the U-Turn?, because someone in an ivory tower didn't want to accept responsibility for the likely backlash from disgruntled drivers and passengers.

Sadly, any reduction in road carnage is going to take some major cultural changes, and I can't see this happening anytime soon. There's just nobody in LOS prepared to make and stand by unpopular decisions. This would be going 'head to head' with Thai culture where everything that doesn't involve a photo opportunity is swept under the carpet, like most of the problems here. Avoiding confrontation and loss of face are the pillars of Thai culture which aren't going to be dismantled for centuries to come. 

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4 hours ago, nong38 said:

There are many issues here which contribute to the figures.

The road designs are not the best but a good start would be close all U TURNS which do not use bridges or tunnels.

Thai vehicles should all be automatic, wont start until the seat belt is connected and have a speed limiter fitted that cannot be interfered with.

Thais in general don't consider or look for other road users which is big scorer in the figures and finally, from me, I am sure you can add but I also notice that whoever has the right of way ( I know they don't have a clue because they have never read the highway code ) its size that counts and you give way regardless!

What is needed to start to make things better and I cannot see it happening is to get the police out in force at a busy place and make life uncomfortable for the bad motorists, hit them where it hurts, cash and a walk home, maybe confiscate the machine make then buy it back or crush it.

Shock tactics are required.

Why must all Thai vehicles be automatics? I do not like automatics and that is the reason I buy a manual. If you cannot drive a manual vehicle then you should not have a license to drive. One thing that many Thai's do when driving an automatic is drive with their left foot resting on the brake pedal so their brake lights are on all the time. If anything get rid of automatics so that they cannot drive with their left foot on the brake pedal.

Speed limiter fitted? No, too dangerous, you would kill more people than you do now.

Road design is alright as long as the drivers obey the laws.

Your last paragraph is the most important one. Thailand needs to get its police force out on the roads enforcing the law. If they break the law then hit them with heavy fines and use a demerit point system as well.

No excuses that the farmer is poor and he does not have any money, that is no excuse because he can kill just as many people as the rich city dweller.

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19 hours ago, YetAnother said:

we have been predicting this for a couple years now;

all the academic studies point to a half dozen common causes; same ones;

i believe it is far more fundamental; thais are not careful, orderly people;

they do not grasp the value of order;

given them bigger,faster cars and trucks and more and more graduates from motorbikes.....;

this is what you get

In Rayong there seems to have been an explosion of big bikes in the last few months so I'm waiting for the carnage that is going to occur. Also, this high season the older retired Scandinavians seem to be hiring more scooters (as there is a lack of transport here) and the way they ride looks like accidents waiting to happen.

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4 hours ago, KIWIBATCH said:

So....the Chicken essence had the opposite effect...more people died on the roads...!!!.....must be an opening in Thailand to now sue the manufacturers of the chicken essence surely....:cheesy:

They can't because everyone is clucking around:cheesy:

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19 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Excellent  news, well done Junta, well done Thailand, but basically well done Thai People.

Who says they're no good at anything?  It's absolutely diabolical,  yet they don't care.  I care more about them having these  "accidents"  than they do but try as I might,  I can't get them to remotely care.

 

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2 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Actually, he could not have predicted and planned for an eruption 10,000 km away, could he? There was no weather app in 1815, btw! LOL (And "you" (TV members)  thought you know it all!)

 

But, we digress!

 

I think we need to have some kind of analysis about when and how these accidents take place and why. I would be astounded if they were happening at 9 a.m. on a weekday, for instance! Ah! There are police checks, but everyone feel they can avoid them. Social network anyone? Competing with road safety is the vendors of alcohol in restaurants (and the govn't tax revenues). Are govn't "solliloquies" bringing people to drinking more? LOL Therein lies the issue. What are the incentives for all parties involved to change?

 

I believe that it would take a generation or two to remove these bad habits from the culture, at best. No govn't programs is going to make a dent in any of it in a few months. Still, the trend is distressing. The problem is that many believe that drinking-and-driving is okay, that they can handle it, that they know their limit. The true alcoholic always does, but in truth he does not know or care. There are many alcoholics here. We should be fair though. There are alcoholics in all countries. Still it seems that drinking to get drunk is popular here (too). Still, anti-smoking programs in some countries were successful. It is possible to do it with alcoholism. It would demand excellence in teaching (a govn't program that is based on sound pedagogy and persuasion techniques) and it would take a number of reforms and services (Is a life worth a tuk-tuk ride? What if the restaurant had to pay it? What if police was forcing restaurants to act responsibly). Unfortunately, there are other bigger issues. Amazing Thailand! It is all amazing. Make-belief. Ultimately, it would take intelligent planning to offset revenue losses. Are the people in charge really experts or have they just paid for their status or their badges? Are they accountable? How? Have any heads rolled (metaphorically)? Is there anyone who will ever take the keys off someone hands? All this losing face culture has to go, but that is so ingrained. With cars having cameras and everyone having phones, maybe we should reward people who catch those bad drivers in the act. Fear of retaliation seems to be the other side of that losing face culture. The culture must change. It starts when they are young. It will take one or two generations, if it ever happens. 

 

I read the Chinese and the Indians are trying to address their smoking issues. It is a bit late, but they are doing something about it. Don't expect blue skies in Beijing tomorrow though. Oh! They are building a lot of nuclear power plants. I would prefer cleaner, renewables. In the meantime,... In the mean time,...

 

 

And what is your point???

You don't have any say here in Thailand

All your suggestions will be in vain. So swallow them even it's hard

The only thing what is missing here in Thailand - and it's start from the top - is BRAIN

As long those hardliners are trying to rule this country there is no hope of improvement

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18 hours ago, Thian said:

In Europe there are undercover cops in cars who also have videocams at all sides. If you drive too close to another car or stay on the fast lane when the slow lane is empty they will give you a huge fine...for speeding they have camera's littery everywhere, the ticket will come to your home. They also use cars with computerequipment who can read licenseplates and check if the car is insured or checked for safety yearly.

 

They also register the licenseplate and do it again after 50 km or so, they then calculate the travelled speed over that distance and will send a fine if necessary.

 

There's no way to do drive like a Thai in Europe, you'll get stopped by police within 10 minutes...and there's no way to bribe them at all. When they stop you for an offence they also check the whole car if all is working properly, if not more fines are written.

 

What you see on the Thai roads every day is unbelievable for the Europeans. It can be a primetime tv=show for them to watch Thai traffic.

 

I really can't understand why Thailand let this all happen, they do have police but they won't do their job...and even a big general can't fix that.

Soon the whole world will make jokes about driving like a Thai...and they totally deserve it.

 

The whole world knows nothing about thailand, even travel agents. If all would know there would be no more tourists coming to thailand.

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2 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Actually, he could not have predicted and planned for an eruption 10,000 km away, could he? There was no weather app in 1815, btw! LOL (And "you" (TV members)  thought you know it all!)

 

But, we digress!

 

I think we need to have some kind of analysis about when and how these accidents take place and why. I would be astounded if they were happening at 9 a.m. on a weekday, for instance! Ah! There are police checks, but everyone feel they can avoid them. Social network anyone? Competing with road safety is the vendors of alcohol in restaurants (and the govn't tax revenues). Are govn't "solliloquies" bringing people to drinking more? LOL Therein lies the issue. What are the incentives for all parties involved to change?

 

I believe that it would take a generation or two to remove these bad habits from the culture, at best. No govn't programs is going to make a dent in any of it in a few months. Still, the trend is distressing. The problem is that many believe that drinking-and-driving is okay, that they can handle it, that they know their limit. The true alcoholic always does, but in truth he does not know or care. There are many alcoholics here. We should be fair though. There are alcoholics in all countries. Still it seems that drinking to get drunk is popular here (too). Still, anti-smoking programs in some countries were successful. It is possible to do it with alcoholism. It would demand excellence in teaching (a govn't program that is based on sound pedagogy and persuasion techniques) and it would take a number of reforms and services (Is a life worth a tuk-tuk ride? What if the restaurant had to pay it? What if police was forcing restaurants to act responsibly). Unfortunately, there are other bigger issues. Amazing Thailand! It is all amazing. Make-belief. Ultimately, it would take intelligent planning to offset revenue losses. Are the people in charge really experts or have they just paid for their status or their badges? Are they accountable? How? Have any heads rolled (metaphorically)? Is there anyone who will ever take the keys off someone hands? All this losing face culture has to go, but that is so ingrained. With cars having cameras and everyone having phones, maybe we should reward people who catch those bad drivers in the act. Fear of retaliation seems to be the other side of that losing face culture. The culture must change. It starts when they are young. It will take one or two generations, if it ever happens. 

 

I read the Chinese and the Indians are trying to address their smoking issues. It is a bit late, but they are doing something about it. Don't expect blue skies in Beijing tomorrow though. Oh! They are building a lot of nuclear power plants. I would prefer cleaner, renewables. In the meantime,... In the mean time,...

 

 

I am not sure what your ramblings are about completely but if it is about the road carnage then it can be changed in months and not generations, Australia turned their road toll around within 6 months to now have an annual road toll of under 1000 per year and the way it was done was to increase the fines heavily and severe police enforcement to the point that some of the driving offenses became jail sentences. When that happened then the people stopped and thought about it and the majority changed their driving behaviour and it opened it up to better driver education and driver training. But it took the heavy handed approach to get the peoples attention and that is what is needed here

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19 hours ago, wotsdermatter said:

Please, tell us if you travel in Europe< Canada, and the USA, if you see many police "managing traffic" because when I travel in other countries it is a rare occurrence to see police unless they are hiding somewhere with their radar guns or controlling traffic at collision scenes, etc.  While Thailand has a poor record other countries do not necessarily fare better, regardless of reports from worldwide agencies.

I think you will find in Europe Canada and America people take REAL driving lessons and when the instructor deems fit you then take your REAL driving test not like here in Thailand where you spend 5 hours learning in a disused car park then drive your car by yourself to the test centre drive around a circuit do a few manoeuvres and hey presto you get your driving license never really having spend any time learning to drive in traffic or gaining observational and awareness skills.

Then again the thai mentality is Buddha will take care!!

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21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Despite the government and other authorities saying they planned to address the carnage on the nation's roads the figures for January were up a more than half on last year.

surprised the govt did not try to bury this; doubtless something to do with national security

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19 hours ago, Thian said:

Here is another movie, undercover police arrests a hi-so in his Porsche while he's racing it at 213 km/hr....

 

 

At what point was he arrested?

He seemed to be issued with some sort of infringement and was allowed to drive away after shaking hands with the police officer

Are all Dutch police so polite?

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2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I am not sure what your ramblings are about completely but if it is about the road carnage then it can be changed in months and not generations, Australia turned their road toll around within 6 months to now have an annual road toll of under 1000 per year and the way it was done was to increase the fines heavily and severe police enforcement to the point that some of the driving offenses became jail sentences. When that happened then the people stopped and thought about it and the majority changed their driving behaviour and it opened it up to better driver education and driver training. But it took the heavy handed approach to get the peoples attention and that is what is needed here

That’s spot on and they did the same with drink driving I don’t know know what happens in other States but in NSW it is a criminal not a driving   offence with big fines, disqualification and potential jail for repeat offenders

In Sydney they seem to have random breath testing around the clock, you would have to be mad to drink and drive

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1 hour ago, dave moir said:

I think you will find in Europe Canada and America people take REAL driving lessons and when the instructor deems fit you then take your REAL driving test not like here in Thailand where you spend 5 hours learning in a disused car park then drive your car by yourself to the test centre drive around a circuit do a few manoeuvres and hey presto you get your driving license never really having spend any time learning to drive in traffic or gaining observational and awareness skills.

Then again the thai mentality is Buddha will take care!!

Not for getting a couple of amulets and some Buddha magic writing on the head-lining in the car together with a garland of flowers hanging from the mirror -- all set to go.

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41 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

At what point was he arrested?

He seemed to be issued with some sort of infringement and was allowed to drive away after shaking hands with the police officer

Are all Dutch police so polite?

I don't think it was him that drove off, I think it was his wife

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1 hour ago, StevieAus said:

At what point was he arrested?

He seemed to be issued with some sort of infringement and was allowed to drive away after shaking hands with the police officer

Are all Dutch police so polite?

 

I guess they are. Young and foolish, screaming down the road by the seawalll in Holland on 750 street bikes we were clocked doing 215 km/h on 100 (I think). Got pulled over by a motorcycle cop. His word were;

 

"I know you think you are just having some fun, but this is not the Autobahn. The town ahead is my hometown, and I trust you to have the sense to slow down in the city. Your license plate numbers are in the system, so if you get stopped again, that will be the end of the ride! Have a nice day."

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22 hours ago, Thian said:

In Europe there are undercover cops in cars who also have videocams at all sides. If you drive too close to another car or stay on the fast lane when the slow lane is empty they will give you a huge fine...for speeding they have camera's littery everywhere, the ticket will come to your home. They also use cars with computerequipment who can read licenseplates and check if the car is insured or checked for safety yearly.

 

They also register the licenseplate and do it again after 50 km or so, they then calculate the travelled speed over that distance and will send a fine if necessary.

 

There's no way to do drive like a Thai in Europe, you'll get stopped by police within 10 minutes...and there's no way to bribe them at all. When they stop you for an offence they also check the whole car if all is working properly, if not more fines are written.

 

What you see on the Thai roads every day is unbelievable for the Europeans. It can be a primetime tv=show for them to watch Thai traffic.

 

I really can't understand why Thailand let this all happen, they do have police but they won't do their job...and even a big general can't fix that.

Soon the whole world will make jokes about driving like a Thai...and they totally deserve it.

 

What you have stated above is why many move here stay at home with all your police and have a happy life in the nanny state. Yes sorry about the deaths but everyone has choices to make, tomorrow I will be driving to BKK from CNX and I will drive as safe as possible but that is all I can do for my safety and the safety of others.

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I am not surprised  i drive every day and see so many with no road sense . many holiday makers can hire a motor bikes very easy with no experience how to control them  i'm sure they have never ridden a bike before . i do a journey every monday night and counted 48 bikes with no rear lights over 27klms,some no lights at all   cars parked facing oncoming traffic with full beam headlights .  To top it all some  cars coming the other way with red headlights . They will not any better if the law is not changed drastically.  i would think many vehicles are not even road worthy  

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