Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

[XLance]

On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

And you must remember even 10 μg/m³ is not safe, there is no safe limit of pollution.

Of course not, but what there is a a statistically insignificant effect. It's your right to worry about an insignificant effect, but then there is no reason why you should not worry about everything

 

On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

And what is even more disturbing is the fact that with air pollution the researchers have found the initial dose is what really damages people. Going much higher only slightly increases the negative health effects, it is not a linear model.

Do you have a peer-reviewed scientific study that support this claim or you (or a journalist) made that up?

Just based on the absorption of air pollutant, I see no reason why it would follow a linear progression (it's a volume/surface contamination) and that's not taking physiological effects into account (which have even less reasons to be linear in this case). My best guess is that health effects probably follow at least a first-order power law (but certainly not something logarithmic like you seem to suggest).

 

Your claim basically would say (translated in an hypothetical cigarettes per day/DALY) that smoking 10 cigarettes a day will shorten your life by (let's say) 12 months, while smoking 50 cigarettes would be 18 months, smoking 100 cigarettes a day would be 21 months, and 300 cigarettes a day (basically, smoking continuously) would not really change your life expectancy compared to a few packs a day :p...

 

Provide a peer-reviewed study of those epidemiologists and then it deserves some attention, but I find very improbable that an air pollutant such as those found in PM2.5 in non-industrial areas (i.e. CM) behaves that way. Common sense evidence also show clearly otherwise, respiratory issues in CM increases considerably when PM2.5 is at ~150 μg/m³ and explodes when it's above 300 μg/m³

 

On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

 So while the Thai authorities may think getting down to 20-25 μg/m³ is okay, really its not much different health wise from sitting at 50 μg/m³. We must be staying under 10 μg/m³ pm2.5 at all times to really have a minimal risk. 

Well, the decision of the Thai authorities regarding health are not entirely objective and evidence-based; it is not that surprising. This year lack of state of emergency for Chiang Mai province is a good example and it wasn't for medical reasons that it wasn't declared.

 

[HaleySabai]

On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

 We must be staying under 10 μg/m³ pm2.5 at all times to really have a minimal risk. 

You best move to a back-40 somewhere in Utah or Wyoming if you need 10 at all times. It might be the "minimal risk" level but it's just not a realistic target for this part of the world....or most of the world for that matter.

Here in CM one should be happy with a 30 to 50 range, at best.

[XGM]

With the decent amounts of rain this week, currently the air quality is very good, by any standards. Hopefully it will stay low... until next year.

 

 

 

[Samuel Smith]

15 minutes ago, XGM said:

With the decent amounts of rain this week, currently the air quality is very good, by any standards. Hopefully it will stay low... until next year.

 

 

 

Until the rains stop for a couple of days...

[XLance]

16 hours ago, Samuel Smith said:

Until the rains stop for a couple of days...

The rain will clean the air, but the very high particulates level in the air are not caused by the absence of rain.

 

You need a source (bushfires have reduced a lot, so air pollution is now mostly associated with typical city pollution) and the right meteorological conditions (inversion layer, which is rarely possible at this time of the year). Other factors are secondary.

 

Reduced source and no meteorological process to accumulate particulates cannot lead to very high particulates concentrations, rain or no rain.

[SamSanuk]

Been a while, but this morning can see the mountains past The Old City to the East.

[Laisze]

This morning (Tue 11 Jun 2019) in CM:

 

 

Shocking... ????

[ZeVonderBearz]

Woke for my early morning exercise and to my surprise the air stinks of burning and there is smog in the air. I checked air visual and up by Maejo Golf Course they're reading 400+! Anyone on here around that area and can report what's going on? I'm by central fest so it must be big to have carried so far.

[cerox]

I am planning my move out too. No point, always burning all year. This morning near Klongchon road at 8 a.m. I also smelled fire when going out, perhaps burning plastic as usual.

[canopy]

The rains have stopped, the fires have started, the visibility and air quality are sinking. Looks like an unusually long burning season ahead. Get your air purifiers before they sell out. Pray for October rains.

 

 

 

[Yom Valley]

13 hours ago, canopy said:

The rains have stopped, the fires have started, the visibility and air quality are sinking. Looks like an unusually long burning season ahead. Get your air purifiers before they sell out. Pray for October rains.

 

 

 

Very good advice from 'canopy'.

And see the bigger picture too.

They're coming to take me away ...

 

PM2.5  today at Yom upper valley 45, aqicn.org daytime around 90, at 19.00h 107.

Check the dust with this device. Recharge via USB, no batteries.

This is no ad, only a little help. - [lazada.co.th]

 

 

[Laisze]

CM 2020 burning season arriving early...

 

[rumak]

12 hours ago, Yom Valley said:

PM2.5  today at Yom upper valley 45, aqicn.org daytime around 90, at 19.00h 107.

Check the dust with this device. Recharge via USB, no batteries.

This is no ad, only a little help. - [lazada.co.th]

have you had the device long enough to vouch for its quality ?   I  want one...if it works well

[Yom Valley]

12 hours ago, rumak said:

have you had the device long enough to vouch for its quality ?   I  want one...if it works well

Yes. Absolutely.

-  my first answer is lost somewhere in space -

But there are air purifier devices from Xiaomi where this meter is integrated.

About 4 kBaht. - Might be a good idea.

As always the replacing HEPA-Filters will be the expensive one.

[rumak]

23 minutes ago, Yom Valley said:

Yes. Absolutely.

-  my first answer is lost somewhere in space -

But there are air purifier devices from Xiaomi where this meter is integrated.

About 4 kBaht. - Might be a good idea.

As always the replacing HEPA-Filters will be the expensive one.

i have plenty of air purifiers.   Just want a meter to check aqi  in the house and outside

[cerox]

I think 2019 was a trend-setter. You guys, who are retired in CNX, should make plans. One day your health might not allow to comfortably travel away for 4-5 months a year and then you are caught in a smoke-city. Really a health hazard.

A few days ago I saw and smelled fires too - you are not alone. I ignored it and waited for the rain 1 hour later, because I have to leave in 3 weeks anyway. Really, the government wants me to pay 1M for Elite to live in that smoke? It is a joke.

[khunpa]

I too fear that 2019 was a trend-setter.

 

Two more years like 2019 and our family will be leaving CM for good. Unfortunately, I think there is about 99% chance of no change to the better. 

[Bassosa]

I fear a total reset is needed, a full collapse of tourism and therefore the local economy.

 

Maybe then......

[Yom Valley]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:38 PM, rumak said:

i have plenty of air purifiers.   Just want a meter to check aqi  in the house and outside

Again, this device is ok.

Consumption much less than an other pm2.5 meter.

And shows the temperature.

Btw, while working the temperature is rising too ...

[vivid]

I wonder if the annual PM2.5 concentration for Chiang Mai city would be > 60 ug/m3.

The usual is around mid 40s.

 

I fear for some of the particularly hard hit areas in northern Chiang Mai province and N Thailand as a whole, it would be very comfortably higher than 60 ug/m3.

[cerox]

I saw the AQI near CMU going above 150 in the last few days.

When it goes down quickly it is only "luck" due to the constant rain.

 

I remember on New Years Day 2019 there was smog until lunch time at Doi Suthep. Then mostly January was ok with "only" some polluted days.

 

Now that I move out of CNX soon I need to assess the risk of smoke when traveling here on a 2 months trip. For me 2019 has showed that May was very polluted too - it lasted much longer. February I never know how early they start so it is a taboo month for me too. Already 4 months. With an AQI above 400 many people are just not willing to risk it anymore and if there is a chance that they "might burn" in January, I better do not go then.

 

It is really unfortunate, for some reason there seems much more to burn now and I would not be surprised to see more burning in December/January. So for those who travel here, if we do not want to risk it, we only come during June-Nov - rainy season.

 

I really hope I am wrong and 2019 was just an exception. But I have the feeling there is much more to burn - maybe a deal by the government with some sugar cane manufacturers etc.? Or more mushroom demand by China?  I understand everyone who has bought property here - it is not easy to leave and in many cases so difficult to sell.

[Laisze]

AQI 180 (112ug/m3) outside our walls right now.

1km away from main road, no local burning.

And we are only in Sept, just after the rains.  I can see a mass exodus from CM in the new year...

 

In the meantime 3M Thailand has placed a "2.5pm" sticker on their Filtrete rolls, and so its price is now up from 200Bht to 500Bht per roll. And don't even look at Lazada prices - the scammers there smell blood and are out in full force.

[canopy]

I can't remember the air in September being this bad before. It's at unhealthy levels already. Looking around I see the Thai's burning plastic, land, and just smokey fires being lit everywhere. People are suffering all over Thailand and the air pollution has made the mainstream international news. Hoping the rains are paused, not ended. Surely it will start raining again in October. Right?

 

[cerox]

Yes, I have the same feeling.

This morning / Monday, Doi Suthep was "dusty", cannot be only some rubbish - most stations are not active so I cannot tell the pollution levels. The few stations in the city which were active mostly were between 90-140 - really "scary" for a rainy season.

Yesterday evening everything just fire smell - now use aircon again from 18.00 p.m. onwards - just too risky that there is a fire again as soon as it gets dark.

Happy that I am leaving in a bit more than 2 weeks. If they already start down, what will happen in December, as soon as there zero rain?

It is really sad. I love CNX, but it is not the same as when I came here. Totally gotten out of control with the pollution I think.

End of the year / 2020 burning season will be the "confirmation" if this is a new trend.

[sup3r1or]

I am in Phayao and while it always shows AQI as 90 to 100, it looks almost as bad as March or end of February, the mountains often completely dissappear and everything looks foggy even at 3pm in the morning. 

 

I have a feeling the rains are gone for good and that this burning season will be just as bad as the one before. 

[cerox]

Doi Suthep in CNX looks still dusty for me. Last time it looked like that in burning season. Fire smell today in the morning in some areas, but not long.

Am I the only one who sees that?

Thanks God I did not buy property here.

[vivid]

First off, I'm not from Chiang Mai.   But if what you guys said that it's already bad now for the current rainy season vs past years, then i am afraid the annual exposure would be abnormally high already.

 

I know how bad it was for this year's burning season esp Mar and April.

[at15]

feels just like bad part of the burning season again. woke up with the apartment smelling like a campfire. go outside and smoke everywhere. the thai people dont care regardless , but us foreigners need to make plans to get out of here. its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. 

[Yom Valley]

Sorry, to inform you about this.

Lampang Oct. 2019 already 'Very Unhealthy'.

Any ideas ?

 

And no, I don't think it's a measurement error.

 

 

http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/lampang/provincial-waterworks-authority-mae-moh/

[canopy]

There might be something wrong with their equipment or someone is burning next to it. The reading has now skyrocketed to 371. Generally the air in the north is pretty good right now, even better than Bangkok, as seen below due to some very useful rains. A lot of green quality air. Visibility is excellent. However the government has announced the cold season begins this week so enjoy these last few days. We night not see air of this quality again for the next 6-8 months.