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BANGKOK 19 August 2019 08:52
cmsally

Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

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Posted (edited)

The reality is the air is terrible 365 days a year in most of Thailand. The WHO guideline of 10 μg/m3 pm2.5 is rarely seen. And you must remember even 10 μg/mis not safe, there is no safe limit of pollution. And what is even more disturbing is the fact that with air pollution the researchers have found the initial dose is what really damages people. Going much higher only slightly increases the negative health effects, it is not a linear model. So while the Thai authorities may think getting down to 20-25 μg/mis okay, really its not much different health wise from sitting at 50 μg/m3We must be staying under 10 μg/m3 pm2.5 at all times to really have a minimal risk. 

Edited by at15
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1 hour ago, at15 said:

And what is even more disturbing is the fact that with air pollution the researchers have found the initial dose is what really damages people. Going much higher only slightly increases the negative health effects, it is not a linear model.

Man, that's good to know. I thought my 30 years of smoking had no positive outcome; now I find it "seasoned" me to successfully live in Chiang Mai's crummy air.

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20 hours ago, at15 said:

So while the Thai authorities may think getting down to 20-25 μg/mis okay

But they don't think anything of the kind. The truth is this:

 

The WHO maintains that PM2.5 poses a health threat when above 10 micrograms per cubic metre of air

 

And this is a direct quote from Thailand's pollution control department director-general [source]:

 

"Thailand is one of those nations that will follow its own levels. Only when PM2.5 soars beyond 100 micrograms per cubic metres of air will the air quality be labelled unacceptable under PCD’s official Thai standard. "


Farcical. Decisions like this show Thailand is completely hopeless of ever taking air quality seriously. They make up their own scale to sweep it under the rug and do nothing even if it exceeds that.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

And you must remember even 10 μg/mis not safe, there is no safe limit of pollution.

Of course not, but what there is a a statistically insignificant effect. It's your right to worry about an insignificant effect, but then there is no reason why you should not worry about everything

 

On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

And what is even more disturbing is the fact that with air pollution the researchers have found the initial dose is what really damages people. Going much higher only slightly increases the negative health effects, it is not a linear model.

Do you have a peer-reviewed scientific study that support this claim or you (or a journalist) made that up?

Just based on the absorption of air pollutant, I see no reason why it would follow a linear progression (it's a volume/surface contamination) and that's not taking physiological effects into account (which have even less reasons to be linear in this case). My best guess is that health effects probably follow at least a first-order power law (but certainly not something logarithmic like you seem to suggest).

 

Your claim basically would say (translated in an hypothetical cigarettes per day/DALY) that smoking 10 cigarettes a day will shorten your life by (let's say) 12 months, while smoking 50 cigarettes would be 18 months, smoking 100 cigarettes a day would be 21 months, and 300 cigarettes a day (basically, smoking continuously) would not really change your life expectancy compared to a few packs a day :p...

 

Provide a peer-reviewed study of those epidemiologists and then it deserves some attention, but I find very improbable that an air pollutant such as those found in PM2.5 in non-industrial areas (i.e. CM) behaves that way. Common sense evidence also show clearly otherwise, respiratory issues in CM increases considerably when PM2.5 is at ~150 μg/m3 and explodes when it's above 300 μg/m3

 

On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

 So while the Thai authorities may think getting down to 20-25 μg/mis okay, really its not much different health wise from sitting at 50 μg/m3We must be staying under 10 μg/m3 pm2.5 at all times to really have a minimal risk. 

Well, the decision of the Thai authorities regarding health are not entirely objective and evidence-based; it is not that surprising. This year lack of state of emergency for Chiang Mai province is a good example and it wasn't for medical reasons that it wasn't declared.

 

Edited by XLance

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On 5/25/2019 at 10:40 AM, at15 said:

 We must be staying under 10 μg/m3 pm2.5 at all times to really have a minimal risk. 

You best move to a back-40 somewhere in Utah or Wyoming if you need 10 at all times. It might be the "minimal risk" level but it's just not a realistic target for this part of the world....or most of the world for that matter.

Here in CM one should be happy with a 30 to 50 range, at best.

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With the decent amounts of rain this week, currently the air quality is very good, by any standards. Hopefully it will stay low... until next year.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, XGM said:

With the decent amounts of rain this week, currently the air quality is very good, by any standards. Hopefully it will stay low... until next year.

 

 

 

Until the rains stop for a couple of days...

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16 hours ago, Samuel Smith said:

Until the rains stop for a couple of days...

The rain will clean the air, but the very high particulates level in the air are not caused by the absence of rain.

 

You need a source (bushfires have reduced a lot, so air pollution is now mostly associated with typical city pollution) and the right meteorological conditions (inversion layer, which is rarely possible at this time of the year). Other factors are secondary.

 

Reduced source and no meteorological process to accumulate particulates cannot lead to very high particulates concentrations, rain or no rain.

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Posted (edited)

Been a while, but this morning can see the mountains past The Old City to the East.FD2C1875-733A-4D5F-A5D9-AE2414A61E25.jpeg.ea48081b26a5d2ab8ab2940622f7ffd1.jpeg

Edited by SamSanuk
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This morning (Tue 11 Jun 2019) in CM:

 

Zero_ugm3.thumb.jpg.63939cb59083eda0028a76eca7f2a2b1.jpg

 

Shocking... 😷

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Woke for my early morning exercise and to my surprise the air stinks of burning and there is smog in the air. I checked air visual and up by Maejo Golf Course they're reading 400+! Anyone on here around that area and can report what's going on? I'm by central fest so it must be big to have carried so far.

Screenshot_20190722-061303.png

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I am planning my move out too. No point, always burning all year. This morning near Klongchon road at 8 a.m. I also smelled fire when going out, perhaps burning plastic as usual.

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